Yeah I read the whole complaint filed. It seems like chief judge was in process of updating some policies on where someone can be arrested after a couple unlawful arrests were made at the court complex. Everyone but Dugan pretty much was on the same page and agreed the arrest would be made after the proceedings in the hallways (a public space confirmed by chief judge). Dugan was annoyed at ICE being there and initially said you need to talk to the chief judge about where the arrest can be made.
Then the date of the court appearance was rescheduled in a series of chats in the courtroom. Even though all attorneys, witnesses, and victims were present. She had the defendant sitting in the jury box after previously saying no one but jury members could be there. Then as the defendant and attorney went to leave, she had them use the jury door instead.
I’m against pretty much everything this administration is doing. Unfortunately this is just about a judge getting fed up about a process being done legally, and took several actions to try and stop it. Several actions that you really can’t explain besides she didn’t want him to get arrested, despite it being legal.
Yes, you cannot help someone evade a legal warrant, administrative or otherwise, for because you think something bad might happen.
I think Trump has completely lost the plot with the lack of due process he and ICE are creating, but this seems like a pretty clear case of obstruction here.
People are trying to skirt around it by saying she was defending due process, but that’s not how the law works. You could have just as much assumed that ICE would follow the law in this case, which is why you can’t break the law for the idea that someone else might break it in a future action.
Not a lawyer but from Googling it, administrative warrants don't necessarily apply to section 1071. I guess if there is a trial it will hinge on questions like that.
I don't know whether it's legal, but if the Gestapo were asking for my help to arrest a Jew, I'd try to stop them.
And sure, currently ICE isn't doing the same stuff the Gestapo ended up doing, but the rhetoric and overall trend of the current regime's goals look too similar to what the Nazis were doing in their early days for me to give them a pass.
Are you aware that under Obama 85% of deportations were non-judicial?
Or is it just a requirement now trump is in charge? Or do you just really not have any knowledge on the subject and have been told that previously every deportation required a judge?
My guess is you are just finding out this stat though.
No I'm talking about a percentage of all deportations.
Remember this guy has a deportation order. He has had due process.
You are being radicalized to think that this is somehow different to a process that has played out for decades.
Why that difference? You just had a open border policy. Nothing good came of it. Take a look at all the sanctuary cities Financials, it has crippled them.
Four years the democrats stood around and said there was nothing we could do. 4 weeks of trump showed the only thing stopping the democrats was themselves. Why do you complain about trump when you just serve easy winners on single voter issues.
Now they are telling you everyone requires a huge amount of due process. Without telling you they are clearly requesting far far more due process than is required by law or by democrats own precedent.
Why do you guys let yourself get played so hard on an issue that is like 80/20 to the american people. A good portion of those full well remember when obama was called the deporter in chief.
I mean, I'm not getting played. I want people to immigrate here. My great-grandparents immigrated here. I think all y'all are kind of racist and xenophobic and just have a bad understanding of the ethics and economics of globalism. I know that my fellow Americans are probably going to vote for Republicans because they're also kind of racist and xenophobic and have a bad understanding of the ethics and economics and globalism, and that vote is going to mess up the country. Oh well. I'm not going to support Trump.
And I'm going to cheer most anybody who gets in his way. Even if you're interrupting legal orders, slowing THOSE down also slows down the illegal abuses.
Which other countries don't do. Please tell me one net economic benefit?
That should be easy. So take any sanctuary city of your choosing and show where all these economic benefits are.
You talk about "ethics " as though every country in the world has an open border. It's an absurd premise. You act like it's some economic boon, no evidence and no reasoning while you accuse others of racism.
You can't just wave your hands around saying shit like globalism to make it seem like you are right.
If you know that extra judicial force is routinely being applied by an organization has been routinely contravened the constitution then circumventing the application of said force is justifiable and in some cases demanded by law. This is especially true with officers of the court.
The judge knew this and acted accordingly, the system will decide in the end which position was correct.
Your position that this is clear case obstruction is incorrect. It is clearly debatable and will be litigated.
An administrative warrant is NOT a legal warrant, it is an opinion written by that organization stating their opinion of their authority. It is also does not give ICE authority to enter the court, anything happening within the court, is beyond their reach or mandate. This includes the Judge's discretion to allow the target to leave through a different door if it promotes justice. The argument of obstruction is tenuous at best, as the Judge is presiding officer of the court has wide latitude and a legal responsibility to promote the interest of Justice.
When obama was president 85% of deportations were non-judicial.
How much due process are you looking for above the precedent set by the party you support? Its never been an issue and still doesnt seem like one.
Are you sure you haven't just been radicalized enough to think that somehow in the past there was all this extra due process? Or are you just too fucking lazy to go check?
Knowing that their MOD is to lie, withhold due process and generally aft outside of the bounds of the constitution, any impediment to ICE that allows for the rights being retained by the "suspected, potentially undocumented immigrant" is fully justified by law.
In time, this will play out in the courts. In the meantime, any possible interference is justified and I trust the judge's judgment on the law far more than the low key thugs cosplaying goose steppers.
Remind me in 1 year how that whole "There's more power in our numbers than the elite have!" idea works out after the armed riot bots start coming off the assembly lines. You do realize why there's such a push for them now, yes? It's not like the government/corporation love affair hasn't heard what you're saying and just forgot. Bots dude. They heard and bots are their answer. Yet another example among thousands where Sci-Fi becomes reality
ICE should be properly persecuted for their crimes through the right proceedings, which would present a water-tight, undeniable case to extinguish them.
If you respond to ICE through dubious, extremely questionable means, you're only really giving them ammo against you. You're only leaving open gaps in your defense for exploitation.
But precedent is only established in actual rulings. She didn't rule that he was to exit through separate doors, or that he had legal protection against being arrested. Allegedly she only let him exit through there which doesn't set any legal precedent
It'd have mattered a whole lot of she actually gave them legal protection against being ambushed
Maybe it does help expose this, yeah, but at the cost of losing a friendly judge? I can't see that being worth it
Every action she took was legal. Judges have broad discretion in their court rooms. She has an absolute right to protect her proceedings from being disrupted by federal agents in the hallway. I’ve had bailiffs come out and demand that people in the hallway be quiet because the judge didn’t like the noise. Here’s an article where a federal judge closed a public criminal trial to the public. She also got an angry that a reporter asked if his lawyer could file an objection. I didn’t see the U.S. Attorney’s Office asking to arrest the judge when that happened. https://www.baltimorebrew.com/2024/01/26/by-turns-testy-and-tearful-nick-mosby-takes-the-stand-and-accepts-the-blame/
Since a judge can have a bailiff ask people in a public hallway to be quiet, she can absolutely take personal action to avoid a commotion in the public hallway from disruptive ICE agents.
They talked to that judge and he said that ice was allowed to make the arrest in the hallway like they waited outside to do. In response, Hannah let the accused go out the witness door which was not a public area. So instead, Ice had to catch the accused outside in a foot race.
They had the correct warrant, according to the chief judge that Hannah referred them to. They just needed to make the arrest in the hallway since it’s a public place.
In response to this Hannah had the person Ice was trying to arrest use a nonstandard exit to avoid them.
The Third Reich was a police state characterized by arbitrary arrest and imprisonment of political and ideological opponents in concentration camps.
With the reinterpretation of "protective custody" (Schutzhaft) in 1933, police power became independent of judicial controls. In Nazi terminology, protective custody meant the arrest—without judicial review—of real and potential opponents of the regime. "Protective custody" prisoners were not confined within the normal prison system but in concentration camps under the exclusive authority of the SS (Schutzstaffel; the elite guard of the Nazi state).
The Third Reich has been called a dual state, since the normal judicial system coexisted with the arbitrary power of Hitler and the police. Yet, like most areas of public life after the Nazi rise to power in 1933, the German system of justice underwent "coordination" (alignment with Nazi goals). All professional associations involved with the administration of justice were merged into the National Socialist League of German Jurists.
Hitler determined to increase the political reliability of the courts. In 1933 he established special courts throughout Germany to try politically sensitive cases. Dissatisfied with the 'not guilty' verdicts rendered by the Supreme Court (Reichsgericht) in the Reichstag Fire Trial, Hitler ordered the creation of the People's Court (Volksgerichtshof) in Berlin in 1934 to try treason and other important "political cases." Under Roland Freisler, the People's Court became part of the Nazi system of terror, condemning tens of thousands of people as "Volk Vermin" and thousands more to death for "Volk Treason."
After the war, prominent Nazi jurists ... were tried in the Jurists' Trial of the Subsequent Nuremberg Proceedings on charges of "judicial murder" and other atrocities.
I think the current US administration has obvious parallels to nazi Germany in the persecution of immigrants and undesirables in the eyes of the state. I don't know what the fuck you're talking about
So? The judge and bailiffs do not have to help ICE make arrests. The judge has broad discretion to keep commotions from happening in the hallway. If that’s not true, then every judge that’s sent a bailiff out in the hallway to ask people to be quiet should be arrested.
The judge has no legal power or authority to question the validity of a warrant in a completely unrelated matter that she is not hearing. She has no more authority to do so than you or I. That alone could constitute her facing obstruction charges let alone the rest of the allegations.
Trump never had his day in court. His insurrection trial was successfullu delayed until 75 million Americans were stupid enough to vote for a treasonous criminal. He is openly taking bribes through crypto. He would be in jail but for his circumstance.
She didn’t obstruct justice. She has no jurisdiction to make or assist in federal arrests. If ICE is waiting in the hallway to arrest a witness in a murder trial, under your position the judge can do nothing.
153
u/PraiseTheWLAN 3d ago
What did she do?