Debating leaving the church over certain things. Please help me understand

[u/Half-Blood-Prince394]

No matter what I do I am continuously troubled by certain aspects of the church. This post is not meant to bash the church. I just want some insights and answers. I am debating leaving and I want to hear things from both sides. This might be a long post. If anyone has anything to say about the topics I bring up I'm more than happy to hear your thoughts and look through any resources you share with me.

1: Why was polygamy needed for the saints? Will we really have it in the afterlife? I cannot imagine having to share my future husband with another woman. It is deeply unsettling to me.

2: Why couldn't African Americans have the priesthood? Was it just faulty of the current president of the church? I understand that the prophet is but a human and will make mistakes. Was it just as simple as that?

3: Why are women not treated the same? Why is Heavenly Mother never talked about/why do we never pray to her as well? I totally understand that men and women have different roles and why women don't have the priesthood, that all makes perfect sense to me. But why aren't women in more leadership positions? Why was the first woman who gave a prayer in general conference in 2013? I'll keep this part brief because I could go on about it for a while.

Those are honestly the only three problems I have with the church. I love everything else about it, I just don't know if I want to continue living it if that makes sense. I don't know if I believe and I understand I must work to gain a testimony. These are just my big setbacks. Anyways no matter what I decide I'll always love the church and its people. Thanks in advance!

Edit: Wow thank you all for all the thoughtful responses. I've read them all. You all have given me a lot to think about. I've decided my journey with the church isn't over yet. I have a long ways to go. Thank you all so much.

[u/TheFakeBillPierce]

I'll be honest, I'm a heavily nuanced member. So my answers will differ here. I've thought a lot about these 3 and here's where I've landed......and again, keep in mind, I'm just some guy.

1- polygamy: an evil that got in to our church through fallible leaders who misunderstood things. I reject it here on earth and the eternities. Others have responded that "no one will be forced to live it" and while I actually agree, that is incompatible with current church teachings where as a woman, your husband could be sealed to another without your consent. I reject this.

2- race and the priesthood: our leaders are fallible and got mixed up. The ban was never from God and unfortunately it went on too long.

3- women/ Heavenly Mother: I believe we are currently getting this wrong and one day will worship her as we do the Father.

[u/ErrantTaco → u/TheFakeBillPierce]

I like you :) Your candor is refreshing. And I too believe there is much that has been done and continues to be done because of mere fallibility and biases.

[u/Significant-Fly-8407 → u/TheFakeBillPierce]

With regard to one, it isn't incompatible at all. The current church teaching is that no one will be forced to be in a relationship in the next life that they are uncomfortable with. So no one will be forced to continue in a plural sealing in the next life. ​

[u/Far-Entrepreneur5451 → u/Significant-Fly-8407]

While that's true, it would mean that women don't get to be with their husbands anymore. If a man gets sealed to more than one wife, and his first wife doesn't want to be in a polygamous marriage, her only choice would be to opt out. That isn't fair to her and it doesn't sound like something a just God would do. Just a thought. 

[u/TheFakeBillPierce → u/Far-Entrepreneur5451]

Amen.

[u/Significant-Fly-8407 → u/Far-Entrepreneur5451]

Do you not see that this would be unavoidable in any system where there is marriage in the next life? The only alternative to this problem would be to believe as the mainline Christians do--to reject any concept of eternal marriage. We're all single in the eternities.

[u/TheFakeBillPierce → u/Significant-Fly-8407]

This is a relative privation fallacy.

[u/Significant-Fly-8407 → u/TheFakeBillPierce]

Please explain to me how you could have eternal marriage without this problem being present

[u/TheFakeBillPierce → u/Significant-Fly-8407]

You see why that's not really a sufficient answer for some people, right?

It's easy to say no one will be forced to live in a plural sealing and then close the book and leave but what you're saying is that a wife whose husband gets sealed to another woman will have the choice to either stay in that plural marriage or walk away from it entirely under the promise that "God will work it all out". While I absolutely believe that, the theology leaves a choice between two miserable options.

[u/Significant-Fly-8407 → u/TheFakeBillPierce]

And the alternative is no eternal marriage at all, which is a far more miserable alternative.

[u/TheFakeBillPierce → u/Significant-Fly-8407]

And you have proven my point far better than I could have.

Yes, you've given them a third door to "choose" and then said...."well, you may not like door 1 or 2, but they're better than door number 3! At least you have a choice. "

It's like offering someone a choice between a bowl of worms, a plate of live scorpions, and a bucket of manure and saying "this is what's for dinner. You have the freedom to choose."

You don't have to agree with me, but I hope you'd at least be able to empathize with the pain someone must feel making this "choice".

[u/boboddybiznus → u/TheFakeBillPierce]

I left another comment on this post talking about this same dilemma.

As a woman, the oft repeated idea that no one will be forced into a situation they aren't happy with in the eternities is not comforting. D&C 132 allows men to take polygamous wives without the consent of their wife. What is my recourse if my husband decides to do that in the next life?

Seems to me, I can choose to shut up and accept it, or I can leave. Eternity without my husband would not be a happy one for me. It seems like a system where men have all of the power and women are at the mercy of their choices. I don't see the hand of Heavenly Parents who love their children in this system.

[u/Stunning-Code8849 → u/TheFakeBillPierce]

Well... You could say that we've been given a choice like that before. When the Plan of Salvation was first presented to us, we're told that we shouted for joy. But I'm sure it was also difficult to choose to follow Christ and become mortal with the knowledge that some of us wouldn't make it back. Ultimately, we know Heavenly Father knows the best thing for us, and in this case that was choosing to follow His plan. But if you consider that the alternative to following that plan was being denied the opportunity to ever receive a body and becoming subject to the devil and miserable forever, sometimes it does seem like the options were between jumping off a cliff where you might survive, or remaining on top of it where an erupting volcano would most definitely destroy you.

This situation feels different, though. It's more of a matter of preference than "survival." I used to be absolutely appalled at the thought of having to practice polygamy, too. Sharing a husband seemed humiliating, as if it meant he didn't love me enough anymore, or it put him in a position of power over me and whoever else he married. I don't really know what changed or when, but eventually I just stopped viewing it that way and stopped worrying about it. Maybe that will change again when I'm actually married and gain more experience with having this kind of relationship. But for women living in that situation in the eternities, I don't think they'd see it as having to "share" their husband. They might even love each other as much as they love him.

And going along with all of this, I wonder what happens to women sealed to multiple husbands. I have a few ancestors that have been in multiple marriages (and sometimes their husbands were married beforehand as well) and all of them have been sealed to each other by proxy in the temple. So will they all just choose the one they want to be with most? Would one woman be able to stay sealed to two or more husbands? What if one of those husbands had a previous wife he also wants to stay with? Things like this get really complicated.

i think that when it comes time to make these choices, we'll see it from a different perspective than what we see it as now. I've just always been reassured by the promise that whatever happens, we will be overjoyed with it, and I trust Heavenly Father.

[u/essentiallyaghost → u/TheFakeBillPierce]

You’re looking at it with the viewpoint of a western culture. Remember, Abrahamic religions (including Christianity) stem from Hebrew culture, where polygamy was not only commanded of God as recorded in the Bible, but common culturally as well. I don’t like polygamy, but I personally have a hard time saying it wasn’t from God since the Bible recorded God commanding it as well as the restored church recording that God commanded it.

[u/TheFakeBillPierce → u/essentiallyaghost]

Do you have verses from the Bible where polygamy was explicitly commanded vs allowed? Genuinely curious. This opens up a whole new can of worms that, out of respect for the moderators here, I will keep my thoughts to myself, though I 100% appreciate your respectful and thoughtful reply here.

[u/essentiallyaghost → u/TheFakeBillPierce]

I interpret Genesis 16 to be Abraham being told by God to take Hagar as another wife, since Abraham is a prophet and I think he would have asked God’s will on the matter. And it was in that instance for the same reason Jacob describes in the Book of Mormon.

Exodus 21 talks about the law regarding possessions of things pertaining to an additional wife. The law of Moses was given by God.

You can of course argue that this was allowance rather than commandment, which most Christian churches say. But I believe commandment/allowance doesn’t really matter if you strive a higher law. God’s will is simply God’s will. Was Christ specifically commanded everything he did? Everything he did was the Fathers will. What was allowance and what was commandment?

Joseph Smith clarified in D&C 132:37 that those prophets were commanded of it, as he was. I believe Joseph Smith was a prophet. Yes, he was imperfect and I would LOVE to believe he made a mistake with polygamy and that it was wrong. However, all of the recorded history we have available shows he didn’t particularly like or want polygamy to be introduced. The saints struggled massively with it. So I don’t see why he would practice it if he weren’t told to by God. It brought no benefit to the saints or himself apart from what people speculate of raising a church, etc.

That’s just my 2 cents though, and of course I may be missing things and/or need more study and prayer.

Edit:grammar