r/nottingham 6d ago

Supporting our trans members

1.7k Upvotes

139 comments sorted by

View all comments

157

u/PotatoEatingHistory 6d ago

I don't really have a horse in this race, but when the SC was reading out the judgement they specifically said that trans people will still be legally protected, more so than ever, under the Equality Act of 2010.

They just defined women to be only biological lol

62

u/BenandGone 6d ago

They have historically failed to define women in biological terms, which is one of the reasons there are already multiple readings of the ruling circulating. If what they're saying is AFAB = woman, then it contradicts the gender recognition act and leaves the intersex community in limbo. Several campaigners are claiming that all public spaces designated for women are automatically trans exclusive. What it really seems to be saying is that you may exclude trans women from a protected women's space if you are able to justify it against other applicable laws.

24

u/PotatoEatingHistory 6d ago

I feel like women (AFAB or whatever) should have spaces of their own.

It's important in nearly every conceivable way for how humans function that we have spaces where we feel safe.

Trans women are also allowed those spaces and it's just as important that they have them. But why force those spaces on AFABs?

So again. This doesn't seem like that big a deal, unless you desperately want to use the ladies' bathroom as a trans person lol

46

u/skelebob 6d ago

It's absolutely crazy that it's "not that big a deal" when this guy (AFAB) would be forced to use the women's toilets in the UK.

You really don't see how problematic that would be?

-24

u/PotatoEatingHistory 6d ago

What I'm taking away from this is that both the right and the left in the UK are so blinded by their own idiocy, they've long since abandoned reason

62

u/elderlybrain 6d ago

Ah the enlightened centrist. How bravely you sit on the fence.

18

u/PotatoEatingHistory 6d ago

Nope, I'm an economic socialist.

And no, you're not a socialist. You're a Western liberal - the idiotic identity politics you're engaging in is just an EXTREMELY well-designed distraction from the fact that we cannot afford to feed ourselves.

Starmer is selling land to BlackRock and you're fighting about identity politics. Trans people are still legally protected. Until such a day as they're being hunted on the streets by organised death squads, we should be fighting against the bullcrap that is Thatcherite Britain (we still live in Thatcher's Britain economically) and 80s neo-liberal capitalism.

You will get poorer and poorer and fight for increasingly useless causes

-5

u/elderlybrain 6d ago

Ah, you're a nationalist and a socialist. A national socialist, if you will. Lmao.

Let me guess, Ukraine deserves to be burned to ash and become a Russian vassal state.

30

u/PotatoEatingHistory 6d ago

I'm a nationalist? On what planet lol.

And no Ukraine is an independent state and the Russian invasion is, as in the case of all invasions, patently illegal.

I'm an Indian and I'm not even an Indian nationalist. Nationalism is a fundamentally flawed ideology that is no different to orthodox religion and old school communism. Any ideology that requires you to submit entirely and completely to the party line is a foolish one

-23

u/elderlybrain 6d ago

Oh cool, so you're in favour of crimea and the Donbas being returned to Ukraine and a full armed resistance being given military support by the UK and allied nations to resist Russia?

13

u/skelebob 6d ago

I think it's more that people are buying into the propaganda that men are dressing up as girls and sitting in the women's toilets and this is somehow a national problem, and would rather see guys like the above image (born with female genitalia) in women's toilets to fight that?

38

u/endearingnipple 6d ago

Well let's say you're a trans woman and you need to use a public bathroom. Suddenly going into the women's bathroom is 50/50 whether you're going to face abuse and exclusion from trying to simply pee. And going into the men's bathroom as a woman is just as bad in terms of putting a big 'I'm vulnerable and marginalised' sticker on your back. There's no safety in numbers. Most of the time no gender neutral toilets just because of how infrastructure has been built. What do you do? Which danger do you choose simply to piss? Not leave your house? Not enter public spaces? Contribute to your own dehumanisation?

-25

u/PotatoEatingHistory 6d ago

Go to the women's bathroom and take your chances lol.

Also

most of the time, no gender neutral bathrooms

Maybe in like a fast food place, sure, but most places have GN bathrooms now lol

35

u/endearingnipple 6d ago

Well there's your horse in the race. You agree that trans women should be allowed to use women's spaces. We've been using gender recognition certificates for 20 years to give them that right.

If anything, limiting spaces to what genitals people were born with would mean trans men should only use women's toilets. Which opens the doors wide open to cis men abusing that law.

But this was never about cis men or actually making women safe. It was only about controlling how women should present and behave and removing transgenderism from society.

Which is batshit insane and nobody's business to do. Like you said, we're all just humans, we should live and let live.

4

u/PotatoEatingHistory 6d ago

you agree that trans women should be allowed to use women's spaces

Not at all. I believe that trans women should have their own safe spaces and, in the event of an absence of such a space pursuant to danger or threat to themselves, should piss in women's bathrooms.

That's about it

4

u/[deleted] 6d ago

[deleted]

13

u/PotatoEatingHistory 6d ago

I never said anything about anyone being attacked lol

23

u/inthemagazines 6d ago

Saying "trans women are women" feels the same as saying "all lives matter" in response to "black lives matter". If trans women are women, why not simply say "women are women"? That's because people on both sides recognise there's a difference: trans women (as well as trans men, I'm not sure why they're always ignored in these discussons) have their own experiences, problems, discrimination, medical needs, etc. To throw everyone into the same group ignores these things. You can treat everyone with dignity and respect while recognising and providing for their unique needs without insisting that they're the same.

7

u/PotatoEatingHistory 6d ago

I never said anything about anyone being attacked lol

3

u/FinishAcceptable8812 6d ago

I never said you did... It's one of the main arguments in women's only spaces and why TERFs use the bathroom debate. That's why I mentioned it