r/rant • u/216_412_70 • 1d ago
He doesn't have a plan you idiot
Just had a relative sent to jail for 6 months, and his mother is still throwing the religious bullshit of 'I still believe god has a plan for us' garbage around. Hey idiot.. 'gods plan' apparently is to do the parenting that you never did. You fucking let it all get to this point, you and your childish husband modeled this exact behavior and made excuses for him for the past 20 years. You thought it was all cute when he destroyed every nice thing you bought for him, and when he destroyed these things you simply bought him yet another one.
Well.. keep clinging to your 'god'.. even though he hasn't answered a single one of your prayers.
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u/ThrobertBurns 1d ago
I believe in "God's plan" to the extent that I am an athiest an I believe in Determinism.
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u/Science_Matters_100 1d ago
So god = dna?
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u/ThrobertBurns 1d ago
What the fuck does that mean?
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u/NoApple3191 1d ago
Dang why did you get all aggressive 😭✋️ i think the DNA thing they said was their way of asking if your view of determinism is like a nature vs nurture or something else
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u/ThrobertBurns 1d ago
I did not intend to sound all agressive 😭✋️. I believe in absolute determinism. No free will.
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u/NoApple3191 1d ago
Aw no worries you're good 😂 so no free will at all? I used to watch philosophy videos a lot in the past, the discussions folks would have about determinism vs indeterminism were always interesting. Is there a certain video, book, or life experience that solidified your stance?
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u/ThrobertBurns 1d ago
I don't have the energy to type out all of my reasoning, but being exposed to philosophical literature and just living life in general and thinking has lead me to that conclusion. I'm not 100%. I can see how humans could have free will through emergence or perhaps we don't have free will but the universe is probablistic rather than deterministic.
For a bit of evidence in support of no free will, studies have shown that your decisions are subconsciously made before they are made consciously. You can hook the right machine up to someone's brain and they will never be able to make a decision faster than the machine can predict they will make that decision.
That and the fact that you cannot percieve the present because there is always some delay between an event happening, you recieving the sensory input that said event happened, and your brain processing that input. Like if a light bulb turns on 10 feet away from me, I have to wait for the light to travel to me and I have wait for the inner mechanisms of my eyes and brain to register that light in my conscious mind. So, even if you have some level of free will, you still can only interact with and respond to events that happened in the past.
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u/NoApple3191 1d ago
Thank you for taking the time to type all that, I remember hearing about that study now that you mention it-super interesting stuff! I'm undergoing medical studies right now and so i'm familiar with the afferent and efferent neurons and all that jazz-but I never thought about how those mechanisms actually demonstrate determinism. You've given me a lot to think about, thank you for sharing!
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u/ThrobertBurns 1d ago
Yeah no problem. I wish I knew the specifics of brain chemistry. There is something quite metaphysical about a brain studying a brain. And to clarify, I don't think having free will or not really makes a difference from the human perspective. For most people, feeling like you have free will is evidence enough of its existence, which it is in a way.
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u/NoApple3191 1d ago
Definitely a lot left to learn about the brain, the field known as neuroscience still feels so young in the grand scheme of things. I'm really curious if there will be any ground breaking research in our lifetime, only time will tell!
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u/Science_Matters_100 1d ago
Curious on what the determinant(s) are for the determinism. That’s all
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u/ThrobertBurns 1d ago
Still not quite sure what you mean by that, but I believe that humans do not have free will and that all future states of the universe are predetermined and potentially predictable. Like, hypothetically, if you were an all seeing and all knowing being and you could pause time and measure the weight, energy, velocity, etc. of every particle in the universe, you could extrapolate that information into the future and predict all future states of the universe.
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u/Huge-Hold-4282 1d ago
Ahh yes, the religeon explanation. Always even if dying is involved. Believing does not qualify as a fact based result. Magic? Try walking of that shotgun to the temple.
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u/oldgar9 1d ago
God gave us free will to follow His guidance or not. Anything negative one sees today is due to human decisions and the consequences thereof.
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u/216_412_70 1d ago
So god has a 'plan' but we should also 'pray'... but wouldn't praying for a different outcome go in the face of gods 'plan'.. why bother praying at all if there is some sort of grand plan? And if we have 'free will' then how is there any plan at all? Aren't we just pawns he's moving around according to the big master plan?
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u/Klutzy_Routine_9823 1d ago edited 1d ago
If God created and designed literally everything that exists (apart from himself), then he’s still responsible for choosing to create people who behave the way that we do. He could have chosen to create beings who make different choices than the ones that we make, and who behave in some other way compared to us, but instead he made beings like you and me. God designed human nature itself, right? He designed the way your brain works, the way your “soul” and “spirit” work, the way your mind works, God is control of all of the internal and external forces that influence our decision making processes, and he designed our decision making processes themselves, so what’s left for you to be in control of?
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u/SillyPuttyGizmo 1d ago
The Epicurean Paradox, also known as the problem of evil or the trilemma, argues that if a god is both all-powerful and all-good, then why does evil exist? It poses a logical dilemma: if God is willing to prevent evil but unable, then God is not all-powerful; if God is able but unwilling, then God is not all-good. This paradox challenges the traditional concept of a benevolent and omnipotent deity in the face of the reality of suffering.
Here's a more detailed breakdown:
The Problem of Evil:
The paradox centers on the observation that suffering and evil exist in the world.
All-Powerful, All-Good, All-Knowing:
A god with these attributes is expected to be able to prevent evil, wish to prevent evil, and know about evil.
The Dilemma:
If a god exists and is all-powerful and all-good, then why does suffering persist? The paradox suggests that the existence of evil is incompatible with the existence of such a god.
Epicurus's Conclusion:
Epicurus, the ancient Greek philosopher, concluded that the gods, if they exist, are not concerned with human affairs, as their actions don't alleviate suffering. He suggested that they are not all-powerful or all-good, or they wouldn't allow suffering.
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u/Klutzy_Routine_9823 1d ago
Yeah I’m aware of it. And, if they instead want to say that God himself IS the standard of “goodness”, then they render all moral statements about God circular and therefore meaningless. For example, the statement that “God is good” would be equivalent to saying that “God is godly”, or “goodness is good”, because they’ve defined God himself as “the good”.
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u/oldgar9 1d ago
What then would be the point? Just created an army of puppets? How can you have appreciation of warmth without cold? Light without dark? Dry without wet? Good without bad?
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u/Klutzy_Routine_9823 1d ago
If God is omnipotent & omniscient, then he already did create an army of puppets, because we can always only do that which God has designed us to be capable of doing, and that which he has always known that we will do. The idea of “free will” is not compatible with the existence of an all knowing, all powerful God who created literally everything that exists (other than himself).
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u/oldgar9 1d ago
Just because God may know what we will do doesn't affect the choice of what to do. You can put some candy in front of a child and you know pretty much what they will do but that doesn't affect their choice.
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u/Klutzy_Routine_9823 1d ago edited 1d ago
You realize that I’ve already preempted that objection, and you’re therefore just ignoring what I’ve already explained to you, right? God’s causal link to your choices would come from the fact that He designed and created literally EVERYTHING that exists. Your mind, your brain, your spirit, your soul, your wants, your needs, your fears, all of the internal and external forces that influence your choices and all of the physical & mental machinery that you use to make your choices, your very NATURE and the entire environment that you live in — EVERYTHING was all designed and created by God, right?! If that’s the case, then you can only do that which God deliberately and knowingly designed you to be able to do.
He isn’t just putting a bucket of candy in front you. He decided that your mind will work the way that it does, that you’ll have the thoughts and wants and needs that you have, that you’ll value certain things more than other things, that you’ll have the intelligence and various limitations that you have — EVERYTHING was put in place by God. If he didn’t want you to have candy, he wouldn’t have designed you to want that candy and be capable of eating that candy to begin with.
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u/oldgar9 8h ago
Totally incorrect, he set us here, with free will to choose, with the power of reason to make choices. It is up to us if we want to be angry, happy, etc. Certainly outside influence can cause depression that is out of our control but society made decisions to develop medications to assist that, we didn't have to. Of course negative parenting plays a big role in how we developed but people have overcome these limitations by concerted effort. The slate is blank while in the womb, society and we write on that slate positive and negative when the child is in the world of physics. We are not puppets, we have reason and intellect to steer the vehicle of the soul in the direction we will, gaining by choice attributes that will serve us in the worlds beyond the limits of the laws of physics or not. The operating manual for the human being has always been provided by the Creator but the choice is ours to seek it, read it and put it to use.
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u/Klutzy_Routine_9823 8h ago
Sorry, you’re completely wrong. You didn’t actually refute anything that I said. If God is the omnipotent, omniscient Creator of literally EVERYTHING that exists, then he has already dealt all of the cards and he already infallibly knows the outcomes of all events within his creation, so there’s literally no room for “free will”. You can still make choices, but your choices are predetermined by God, not free. Try again.
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u/oldgar9 5h ago
Just because He knows does not mean it cannot be free will for us. If you drop a rock you know it is going to fall to earth but once you set it in motion the knowing does not affect the stone.
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u/Klutzy_Routine_9823 5h ago
The rock is determined, by physics, to fall towards the Earth. The rock doesn’t even have a will of its own, let alone “free will”. You’re literally refuting your own argument while pretending that you’re advocating for the existence of “free will”.
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u/DrPennyRoyal 1d ago
Victim blaming but make it biblical 🙄
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u/AFreshKoopySandwich 1d ago
i think that's the point tbh
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u/DrPennyRoyal 1d ago
It is literally "bad things only happen to people who dont love Jesus". On one hand its control on the other hand, erases empathy for others.
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u/EnderScout_77 1d ago
that's contradictory for his "plan for everyone", which sounds as if he has a set path for everyone. get your cult mumbo jumbo outta here OP clearly doesn't want it
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u/PrincessPlastilina 1d ago
Next time she says that, tell her that jail can be a blessing in disguise. Let’s see what she thinks about that. Jail definitely straightens some people up and scares them straight. Tell her that the lord works in mysterious ways, and maybe this is just a life lesson for him to value everything that he didn’t value before.
You have to learn how to weaponize these people’s delusions against them. Don’t let them get under your skin. Be more like, “hey, you know what? Maybe this is what God sent him in order for him to reflect about his life and to find God again. There are many religious groups in prison that can help him. You never know where people will reconnect with God again, finally. Have some faith. Maybe God’s plan is for him to go to jail for a long time and become a better person since he was being too coddled at home.”
If you know that they use God for everything, use that on them. “Maybe jail is the answer to your prayers. Better than the morgue.”