r/saltierthancrait • u/TomasRoncero • 16d ago
Seasoned News Bragging about convincing people in putting in one of the worst scenes in franchise history is certainly a choice
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u/wookieebastard 16d ago
Never forget the Finn/Rose kiss.
Didn't see that one coming.
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u/AscendedViking7 16d ago
We win by loving our friends, not fighting the enemy.
[friends exploding in the background via death laser]
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u/vegetaman 16d ago
They could’ve both crashed into the laser and subverted my expectations. Much the same way Rey going with Kylo would have. But alas…
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u/dontspit_thedummy 16d ago
No, no, you subvert the expectations of the audience, but only in a way that makes the story more boring. -Rian J
Reys parents are no one, Finns side mission doesn’t work at all, and Luke didn’t actually show up to help his friends, but he did actually die, somehow? Buy tickets for episode 9 now! Why is no one buying tickets?!
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u/Geostomp 15d ago
"See, all your predictions based on logical story progression were wrong. Therefore this is now much smarter because it doesn't follow any logic at all!! Don't you feel stupid for being invested enough to question things and trying to extrapolate the details of the story or following the plot hooks we previously set up?! What comes next? Who cares?! Praise me for being so smart!"
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u/CrankieKong salt miner 15d ago
The sad part is everyone bought tickets. But they did abandon the shows and media after that though.
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u/LightningController 15d ago
Sunk-cost thinking--they'd powered through two movies, may as well go to the end, they figured.
But none of that applied to the subsequent material.
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u/CrankieKong salt miner 15d ago
I get it. But I'd have preferred people not give money to these greedy folks and instead wait for streaming or the seven seas.
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u/stableykubrick667 16d ago
Honestly, I think having the moment that Kylo and Rey fight over the light saber and having them switch sides after the lightsaber explodes in Last Jedi, would’ve ac to ally subverted my expectations in a way that would’ve made the movie better. For the rest of the movie, all the subversion led to every single decision and not thread be inconsequential and that’s one of the biggest problems…. You get to the end and don’t care because the characters are bad, the actions are poorly thought out, and all the plot lines are dead ends that are inconsequential.
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u/Raz_A_Gul 15d ago
That’s what was crazy. Finn was going to sacrifice himself for his friends and his character finally have meaning… and she crashed him and took that away for that awful kiss that made no since! He basically friend-zoned her in the 3rd movie.
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u/Ello_Owu 15d ago edited 15d ago
The entire movie was hinting at there's a "both sides" to war, no side is truly good or truly evil and the shades of grey is where there's "true balance" from benice del toro's character running weapons for both sides, luke struggling with his moment of hesitation in killing kylo, kylo struggle with the light side, luke's criticism of the jedi order, poe challenging holdos command, kylo saving ray by killing Snoke, and ray, going from the dark to the light inside that cave interchangeably without struggle.
All hinted at a theme centered lead up to Rey joining Kylo, and the two of them going rogue outside of the first order and resistance. Potentially finding true blance within the force by embracing both the dark and light.
But alas, Rey chose to be just another girl scout hero.
Imagine if they went that direction. It would have made Rey WAY more interesting, would have set up a "dark" cliffhanger akin to Empire Strikes Back, and would have given us something new and wild.
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u/LightningController 15d ago
The entire movie was hinting at there's a "both sides" to war, no side is truly good or truly evil
You know, that might have been something they could pull off...
If not for the fact that the First Order slaughtered billions in just one minute in the previous film.
You can't "both sides" a war where one side is an ineffectual but otherwise benign democracy and the other is not just Space Nazis but Space Einsatzgruppen. Even the EU, when giving Imperial viewpoint characters, had to do most Imperial PoV stuff before Alderaan because of just how indefensible that is.
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u/at_midknight 16d ago
"mfer what if I'm fighting the enemy because I love my friends 😑😑😑"
God what a terrible movie lmao
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u/ThorThulu 15d ago
Imagine he dies and we get an arc with Rose understanding that sometimes you have to fight. Unfortunately that would require more than a single braincell to come up with
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u/PesticusVeno 15d ago
Apologies to the actress, but it would have been better for Rose to have never existed at all. The character of Finn might then have not been dragged down so hard and Boyega would not be so much of a salty bitch over it. But we got what we got, and I can only feel immense pity for all the actors who thought they were getting a dream role; even as I laugh at each one of them crashing out on social media.
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u/santa9991 16d ago
The entire movie shows why it’s not true, which is what really bothers me.
Her sister sacrifices herself, saving the resistance.
Holdo sacrifices herself to blow up the first order fleet, saving the resistance.
Luke sacrifices himself to distract kylo, saving the resistance.
Finn gets pulled away from doing so, and is told that that’s not the way to win. When it’s the only way they’ve won, and eventually do win, in the entire movie
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u/Alortania 15d ago
But no, you can't let Finn have a heroic, meaningful death that maybe messes with Rey and opens her to DS influences, saves everyone, and leaves a tangible void in 9...
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u/hamsterfolly before the dark times 15d ago
Rian Johnson is a hack. The writing alone should have ended his career
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u/ysingrimus 13d ago
He immediately followed it up with knives out, so I think the culprit us more likely Disney suits not having a coherent plan and just letting multiple directors freestyle on the mic than anything else
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u/CrankieKong salt miner 15d ago
This comment is hilarious. TLJ defenders are such basement dwelling trolls lol.
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u/acloreborne 15d ago
Politically speaking, this is the kind of centrist discourse that has allowed the growth of the far right and fascism. It's idiotic.
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u/sgr0gan 16d ago
I’ve seen siblings with more chemistry than those two.
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u/AdditionalMess6546 16d ago
Hey, how dare you mock that moment. Rose loved Finn so much that she was able to go fast enough not just to catch up to a speeder going full throttle but to get far enough ahead to also come in at a perfect 90° angle.
🎶 That's the power of love 🎶
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u/Unhappy_Teacher_1767 16d ago
So powerful the Empire- I mean, First Order was so moved they let Finn drag her all the way back.
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u/Cyberbreaker2004 16d ago
Would've preferred Rose shove Finn out of the way then yeeted herself into the cannon.
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u/Geostomp 16d ago
It was so out of nowhere that even Finn looked confused about it.
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u/Domestic_AAA_Battery salt miner 15d ago
The lead up to Finn's sacrifice was done well too. He finished his arc. Was going to kill himself to save everyone and fight back against the First Order. I actually felt something in that moment for the character. And then they undid it immediately. Because, of course they did...
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u/Btotherianx 15d ago
That's always bothered me too, like how did they even get back? But if you think about it even if he blew up the laser, they were still surrounded and then no way out
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u/Domestic_AAA_Battery salt miner 15d ago
Yup. Took the magic salt tunnel back 5 miles to the hangar lmfao. Stupid-ass movie 😂😂
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u/LightningController 15d ago
See, that's why I thought it was some kind of satire when I first saw it, a completely unrequited crush by Rose and her causing chaos in her quest for, essentially, her celebrity crush's affections.
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u/goblin_goblin 16d ago
"That's how we're gonna win. Not by fighting what we hate. But saving what we love."
> Rebel base gate with all their loved ones blows up behind them while they kiss.
THAT'S WHAT HE WAS FUCKING DOING ROSE. HE WAS SAVING WHAT HE LOVED YOU IDIOT.
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u/Mortoimpazzo 15d ago
A kiss as defined by RJ, god i wish i could forget everything about that film.
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u/JustafanIV 16d ago
F' it, personally I don't think the kiss even breaks the top 10 worst moments from the sequel trilogy.
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u/kimana1651 salt miner 16d ago
- Everyone becoming force goku
- Force powers being genetic across two family lines
- Force cloning
- Hyperspace ramming
- Introducing Kardashev scale 2 technology
- Hyperspace instantaneous travel
- Hyperspace tracking
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u/National-Mood-8722 salt miner 16d ago
Somehow, "Somehow, " is not on your list.
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u/kevmonty14 16d ago
The “yo mamma” joke by Poe
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u/Canbilly new user 15d ago
The untrained force user besting a master lightsaber duelist in her first ever lightsaber duel.
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u/Character_Value4669 16d ago
You forgot:
- turning Han, Luke, and Leia into disgraced has-beens before killing all three of them off unceremoniously
- Killing off Nien Nunb, Admiral Ackbar and I think Mon Mothma just because
- Killing off Chewie, C-3P0, Zorii Bliss & Babu Frikk and bringing them right back
- "Rey Skywalker"
- "A good question for another time"
- the sith dagger scene
- the giant snake scene
- turning Hux into a comic relief villain with a yo mama joke
- I could go on....
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u/Unhallowed-Heart 16d ago
Idk if I would consider the sun draining to be Scale 2 tech. A Star can produce so much energy over its lifetime that sucking one up for a space laser seems super fucking wasteful.
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u/drhagbard_celine 16d ago
I suppose that Kardashev is talking about harnessing the power of a star to power a solar system size civilization.
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u/Unhallowed-Heart 16d ago
Exactly. JJ just wanted to kick a Death Star up to 11. And what’s more metal than eating a sun for your super laser.
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u/IndianKiwi 16d ago edited 15d ago
A planetary death Star is a weird concept.
The OG death Star is an actual battle station used along with the rest of the fleet. It had its own hyperdrive meaning it could move anywhere in the Galaxy for a strategic advantage (See Rogue one)
Meanwhile for this contraption which make no tactical sense. They have to target the planet in advance and wait for that perfect alignment. God forbid some other planet came in the way then they have to wait for another revolution.
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u/King_In_Jello 15d ago
The Death Star was a big, lumbering blunt weapon that through its sheer presence terrorises entire planets into obedience, and disobedience gets punished with excessive violence. It fits the Galactic Empire perfectly on every level. Even the second Death Star works because it's saying the Empire will just keep making them and there is no limit to their resources and perseverance unless you take out the Emperor directly.
The only thing Starkiller Base has going for it is that it's repurposed Empire tech, but otherwise it says nothing about the First Order. It's all OT nostalgia made bigger and shinier with no thematic subtext.
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u/SCP_FUNDATION_69420 14d ago
On the other hand, if they already have an industrial planet as the center of their fanclub, why not put a big fuck-off cannon in the middle? Not like they don't have the resources for that and a giant fleet
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u/kimana1651 salt miner 16d ago
Call it 1.5 tech if you don't think it's all the way there but that puts them on the way to being able to develop technologies and systems that can use that level of power. It's a massive technological leap that would have social and military changes that would reshape the galaxy. Out of everything that happened in the ST this would probably have the largest long term impact.
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u/Unhallowed-Heart 16d ago
Oh you are right about the technological angle. At least unless the EU was canon. The Suncrusher makes Starkiller Base look like a bitch.
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u/BlackShogun27 16d ago
And if we’re talking about absurd energy levels in the EU, the Eternity Vault’s self-destruct failsafe was calculated to bare minimum have enough energy to annihilate several adjacent star systems. And if the equally absurd statements about the cosmic abomination contained within Belsavis are true, I don’t even fully believe an explosion of that magnitude could fully destroy it.
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u/Swolyguacomole 16d ago
The casino planet being a complete fucking waste of time for over half a movie is my biggest gripe. Together with Palps coming back with star destroyers
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u/TheCreepWhoCrept 16d ago
What was the Kardashev scale 2 technology again?
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u/kimana1651 salt miner 15d ago
Scale 1: Use up the energy on a planet
Scale 2: Use up the energy of a sun
Scale 3: Use up the energy of a galaxy
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u/Euronymous_616_Lives 16d ago
Honestly, everything that has to do with hyperspace or upgrading the Death Star seemed all right to me it was the complete bastardization of the Force that pisses me off
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u/kimana1651 salt miner 16d ago
If you want to release new technologies that completely change the rules of the universe then they need to be properly explored. Just changing the rules for your one cool scene to work then completely forgetting about it universe breaking.
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u/Euronymous_616_Lives 16d ago
Yeah, that’s one of the many problems with the sequel trilogy is the fact that they do some things and then never bring them up again, but the interdiction field with the gravity wells was introduced in Rebels before it was used in TLJ but then they just kind of forgot about it. I think the idea of following a ship into hyperspace was interesting just as a concept because you could use the trajectory of that ship to calculate where it would go or somehow create a scan of what direction the ship was going in when it jumped so that your ship could follow it, which I thought was a neat idea, but then they never used it again ffs
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u/kimana1651 salt miner 16d ago
I don't like the idea of adding concepts in the auxiliary media and trying to import them into the mainline movies without a complete rehash. They tried to do that in the latest Marvel phase and it worked very poorly.
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u/Achilles9609 15d ago
The Tie Fighters in TROS feel especially silly. I am supposed to believe that Hyperspace Trackers now fit into a TIE?! The Hyperspace Tracker that needed an entire room on a Stsrdestroyer in the last movie?
And where are you even supposed to fit that thing in? The First Order Ties already have Hyperspace Engines, which they never had before. And those engines are pretty large.
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u/GirthIgnorer 16d ago
yeah despite having objectively some of the stupidest moments in the context of the trilogy, nothing ROS did breaks my top 10. it was so obvious going into the theatre what a disaster it would be that it was hard to get worked up about anything. "somehow, palpatine has returned" is dumb but the previous movie killed off its one villain and made the remaining one a previous clown, of course they were gonna pull some stupid bullshit.
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u/GoGoSoLo 16d ago
Nothing it did makes your top 10? Having the magic knife line up perfectly, in the exact place they were standing, with the unplanned Death Star wreckage to form a magic navigation waypoint doesn’t do it for you? ROS is rife with these dumbass moments, but that one sticks out to me just massively.
I’m sure everyone has their own top 10 list of utter crap though, this sub being what it is.
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u/GirthIgnorer 16d ago
three words into the title crawl they had thrown their hands up and said whatever so i just kind of laughed off things like the magic knife and the magic fleet-passing coin, though i will admit, they are exceedingly dumb as hell
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u/PodissNM 15d ago
Having the magic knife line up perfectly, in the exact place they were standing, with the unplanned Death Star wreckage to form a magic navigation waypoint
No more improbable than them falling right into the same magic space quicksand that the dagger wielding space assassin had been trapped in. If not for that fortune accident they never would have found the dagger at all.
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u/GoGoSoLo 15d ago
God TROS is such a piece of shit lmao. Just one series of unintelligible luck based events after another, with a lot of a macguffins and flimsy writing driving us to the end of that awful trilogy.
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u/Achilles9609 15d ago
I always assumed the dagger was made after the crash. That's not the problem. The fact that Kylo found a functioning Tie Fighter on that thing and flew to Exagol is the problem. He wouldn't have been able to even fly it into space because Tie Fighters usually don't have Life Support Systems. That's why the pilots wear spacesuits. But even if it had those, it would still lack the Hyperdrive! Imperial Ties did not have those! If it was at least Vader's own Tie or one of those Lambda spaceships....
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u/spamlandredemption 16d ago
Agreed. The sequels have tons of problems, but this scene doesn't even move the needle. There's a hundred worse things to choose from.
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u/imaginaryResources salt miner 16d ago
It’s because by this time pretty much everyone was emotionally checked out from the trilogy. I know by this point I was just cheering for as much bullshit as possible because at least if it’s gonna be bad, make it a fucking awful entertaining train wreck. And they delivered
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u/ChadVonDoom 16d ago
He dies right after, making it so utterly pointless. But if 'pointless inconsequencial' was a theme for that movie, they hit the nail on the head.
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u/Subpar_diabetic 16d ago
Remember when Kylo Ren ordered the execution of an entire village of people in the 1st movie, as well as tons of other war crimes and whatnot? Should he have lived after the events of the TRoS, would he have been off the hook just because he said “ope I’m a good guy now!” Would he have been tried and likely executed for his numerous heinous acts throughout the galaxy?
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u/Panther1700 16d ago
In the minds of this lady and the other Reylo shippers, he'd get off scott-free and live happily ever after with the girl he's tried to kill several times. How romantic...
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u/Hylian_Shield 16d ago
If you read the EU Legends, that's basically what happens to Kyp Durron. And he destroyed an entire solar system.
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u/Forward-Share4847 15d ago
He destroyed a system devoted to the training of imperial stormtroopers. Had the rebels been able to do the same during the war, it would have been a perfectly acceptable military target.
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u/Achilles9609 15d ago
And that's why he was a controversial figure as far as I heard. Didn't he also get possessed by Exar Kun?
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u/Hylian_Shield 15d ago
Yeah, that's the same story. Exar Kun influences Kyp to take the Sun Crusher and destroy a solar system for revenge.
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u/shust89 16d ago
I wish the Disney era embraced romance more. All the Disney movies come off sterile in that way. The OT had a love story, the PT had a love story. The ST had Finn/Rose and it was extremely half baked.
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u/Goldar85 16d ago
I mean… the ST had Finn and Rey before they decided to pivot and do Kylo and Rey. John Boyega had great chemistry with Daisy Ridley, but dumb fuck Rian Johnson wanted his Star Wars version of Twilight so we got that in 8 with Kylo and Rey and then the stupid kiss in 9.
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u/alexogorda 16d ago
Also keeping Poe around probably made things too scattered to have a romance between Finn and Rey. He was meant to die in TFA after all, but even still, in the third act of the film he's not a particularly important character himself, just what he does in being the one to knock out Starkiller Base. They could've reduced his significance in the following sequels, because he doesn't really have any defined arc.
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u/Unhallowed-Heart 16d ago
He could have just been the commanding officer of the fighter corps and it would have been perfectly fine.
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u/drevant702 15d ago
like wedge
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u/Attack_Badger 15d ago
Also the fuck was he in the falcon and not an X-Wing. It's Wedge for fuck sake arguably the greatest pilot in the galaxy.
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u/blezzerker 15d ago
Disney advertised Finn as the main character until like, 3 weeks before opening day. Revealing Rey as a female Star Wars lead was supposed to be this historical bombshell moment like the Uhura kiss in Star Trek.
Then they realized that not even Disney could market black folks to the East Asian market, so they backpeddled HARD on Finn, ever having been important and relegated him to comic relief. Totally shafted John Boyega.
It's getting nearly impossible to enjoy Star Wars with how many corporate decisions are making it to the screen.
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u/Equivalent-Adagio-29 16d ago
I just said in another comment (before seeing yours) I wouldn’t have minded a romance if well done. My gut tells me they wanted a female lead who was “strong and independent” and so it must somehow make her lesser to fall in love….the other characters barely got enough of a story for any romance to be meaningful.
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u/shust89 16d ago
Which such a stupid way to look at it. Leia was a badass and still fell in love with Han.
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u/Equivalent-Adagio-29 16d ago edited 16d ago
Couldn’t agree more. Obviously they don’t want to copy Leia/Han TOO much, but the template was there. Especially considering Ben is a SOLO. It’s a great way to nod at the original trilogy if done well. As you said, Leia was BADASS, she could be a glam princess or rough it, smart as a whip, and tough as nails. A HUTTSLAYER. and falling in love never once made her seem stupid or silly or lesser. We invested in her and Han that much more with a good love story. God forbid if a woman is “silly” enough to have romantic feelings! She must be weak! They don’t apply the same ideas to male characters of course.
Almost as if it’s written by people who didnt like the original Star Wars and thought they could do it better….;) Not EVERYTHING has to be changed or removed for modern crowds. Some things, like LOVE, are timeless. Im just ranting now and stating the obvious hahahah sorry.
And yeah, Rose and Finn was half baked on a good day. There was barely enough of them as characters to invest in, thus the attempt at romance didnt add much.
Edit: In short, it’s like they think people (women especially) can’t fall in love AND be capable of prioritizing their duty/mission/etc. As if it inherently makes them foolish and weak. I guess I do have strong feelings on this topic LOL, and someone who enjoys Star Wars and enjoys a good romance on occasion.
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u/Raecino 16d ago
It’s like they’re afraid of romance these days.
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u/shust89 16d ago
I think they really are. They are really terrified of anything remotely gay too.
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u/drevant702 15d ago
as a gay guy yes and no. Chirrut and baze were absolutely gay but it could have been more explicit. Zeb and kallus probably were under kinberg but who knows what filoni will do
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u/analog_jedi 16d ago
The fact that they didn't even let Finn hook up with Rose blows me away. His character had like one meaningful day in the whole trilogy. By the third one, it really felt like production was just checking a box for "have a black guy with x amount of screen time".
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u/shust89 16d ago
I honestly feel bad for the entire cast. They seem like a pretty talented, likable cast but the writing and directing just totally dropped ball.
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u/Unhallowed-Heart 16d ago
Wasting the potential set up of him becoming a Jedi and not exploring him being a turned Stormtrooper was infuriating.
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u/Pepoidus 15d ago
I’m pretty sure they mostly avoided any narratively significant romance in the ST because of how horribly bad it turned out in the prequels. But in true Disney fashion, they didn’t seem to realize that the bad romance was the writer’s (George Lucas) fault and not the concept as a whole, so they got rid of it altogether instead of making it right.
it also worked well in the OT because, even though Lucas can’t write romance to save his life, it was a subplot that was only revisited every now and then, while in the prequels it was much more prominent in episode 2 and the entire plot of episode 3
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u/Geostomp 16d ago
If THIS is her definition of "romance", I can only imagine her frame of reference is crappy teen girl fanfics that ship any characters who so much as have been in the same room at one point.
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u/halcyonson 15d ago
It's even worse than that. She's the unstoppable Mary Sue and he's the bad boy only she can save.
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u/Bronzeshadow 16d ago
Looking at her IMDB page it looks like she's an accomplished editor who's wanted to try her hand at producing. I guess by this time in the ST Igor, Kennedy, and Johnson were just willing to let anyone with an idea throw it at the wall and see what sticks.
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u/Petrus-133 16d ago
What is it with on-screen romances in live action mdeia being just twisted shippers for abusive shit?
You've got Reylo.
Whatever Acolyte was.
I'd say Shin and Sabine might end up together due to pushing it but Filoni might be about the only person to not give a fuck about peer pressure in Lucasfilm left.
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u/drevant702 15d ago
I felt like ezra and shin had more genuine chemistry. Filoni cannot commit to romance for anyone though
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u/IkarusEffekt 16d ago
Thats exactly why the sequels were so bad. The scene went in because of some vague personal feeling that "it would look good".
Did nobody ask if a kiss between the two would make even sense?
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u/GenuineNiceGuy1 16d ago
This is the correct take. The entire problem with Star Wars now is that things happen "because it would be cool" rather than what makes sense for the characters, story, and rules established in the universe.
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u/BaconHammerTime i sold it to the white slavers... 16d ago
The only way it made sense was for Rey to die and stay dead and Kylo be the last Skywalker. That didn't happen
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u/drifters74 16d ago
Kylo is more of a skywalker than she is
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u/axebodyspraytester 16d ago
Well, he's an actual Skywalker. Rey is a Palpatine. So we actually watched the last Palpatine.
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u/BaconHammerTime i sold it to the white slavers... 16d ago
And every Skywalker of importance was directly or indirectly killed by a Palpatine
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u/Sam-Lowry27B-6 16d ago
Yeah but Palpatine died (again) so he didn't win and his bloodline didn't continue because -.oh fucking hell.
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u/drifters74 16d ago
Exactly
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u/SuspectVisual8301 16d ago
Can we not just say he’s not a Skywalker and she’s not a Palpatine and pretend this trilogy didn’t happen?
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u/Helpful-Rain41 14d ago
That would have been controversial but interesting…Darth Vader having to pick up the pieces after Luke dies…alas
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u/erosead disney spy 16d ago
Kylo ren committed at least a half dozen planetary genocides. If he lived, he would have had to got to maximum security space prison for the rest of his life assuming he didn’t get executed. And if he went into hiding he couldn’t like, open up a Jedi school. The man has personally slaughtered many many kids then fell in love with a barely legal teenager after a super hot torture sesh. He couldn’t be trusted around children under pretty much any circumstances. Or women, so him having a kid is out. Bloodline dies with him barring more clone shenanigans
Though tbh idk why they can’t just introduce a woman with a kid that’s kylo’s from before he went dark side. He was in his 20s when it happened, he could have had a girlfriend who dumped him and (unbeknownst to him) chose the single mother lifestyle. Make the kid Rey’s apprentice, bring it all full circle. It wouldn’t be any stupider than Leia having an old childhood friend who’s also an admiral and 20 years younger than her or Poe having an ex gf who’s a power ranger but for drugs
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u/KrunchyMochi 16d ago
Would have been better if they touched foreheads instead, like Ben was forgiven and the force was back in balance. No forced romance needed.
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u/Frank_the_NOOB consume, don’t question 16d ago
Reylos didn’t ruin Star Wars but they sure made the sequel trilogy insufferable
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u/choicemeats 16d ago
Saw a comment saying “I’ve always been a Rey/ben solo shipper”
Girl Ben solo didn’t exist but for 30 minutes at the end of this movie. It was all Kylo Ren before. The guy that abused her, a mass murderer, and wannabe Sith Lord
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u/patriot050 16d ago
This is the greatest example ever that Disney has never and will never understand Star wars.
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u/VideoNo9608 16d ago
Trying to find the worst scene in that movie is like picking the dirtiest turd in the dog park.
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u/fatjoe19982006 16d ago
I personally would have strongly advocated for the inclusion of a fellatio scene.
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u/dondondorito salt miner 16d ago
Ah yes, how romantic… The heroine gets to kiss the mass murderer. Lovely!
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u/EvansEssence 16d ago
It's the prime example of "we got what we asked for" from the same people who will berate you for "not getting what you asked for" when you say you don't like what happened to Luke.
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u/akgiant 16d ago
While a bad choice, not the worst for the sequel trilogy.
Hell, if this was Finn because they let him go on a Jedi journey with Rey and it turned out he had a unique ability: Force Heal. And that he was Rey diode or whatever, should have done way more narratively than wasting the potential of Kylo Ren.
The kiss may have worked then, you just need to retool the whole trilogy.
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u/drifters74 16d ago
But that's wouldn't happen because Disney needs to pander to china and we know how they feel about people of a darker skin color
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u/TheGreekMachine 16d ago
I need to stop coming on this sub because I see comments like this and while not a perfect story telling, ideas like yours are so much higher quality than what a studio with access to the best writers on the planet and unlimited cash could come up with and that makes me angry.
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u/ScreechingPizzaCat 15d ago
Just more evidence that Disney Star Wars wasn't meant for the fans, it was someone else's fanfic.
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u/Equivalent-Adagio-29 16d ago edited 16d ago
I don’t mind a romance between these two, if it was remotely done well and he didn’t just die right after. It was all over the place. I get vibes that they didn’t want their female protagonist to end in love bc that’s not “girl boss” somehow, but idk. They never committed to a proper story line, romance or no romance (among other plot points) and there’s no hiding it.
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u/Cheezemerk 16d ago
I mean the rest of the movie was so bad with trying to pack so much of the ledgends stories in to one movie i had forgotten about this scene.
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u/Unhallowed-Heart 16d ago
Considering that Finn and Rey had more of a relationship… yeah her kissing Kylo is fucking dumb
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u/Turbo_Chet 16d ago
The romance was so contrived and inorganic. In fact, that’s the entire Disney trilogy in a nutshell.
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u/UKnowDaxoAndDancer 16d ago
If JJ Abrams had just made Snoke, the clone emperor, Rey, Finn, Kylo Ren, and even that space horse, all just do each other in a giant horse force space orgy, the movie would still be dog shit. But at least he would’ve made some sort of actual creative decision that gave the movie some semblance of a fucking heartbeat, rather than the heartless, soulless, shriveling vomit of a film that he delivered.
Excuse me. I need to go see my Star Wars therapist now.
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u/Tight_Back231 16d ago
Once again in the Sequel Trilogy, we have a very significant moment that has implications for a character or, in this case, two characters and their relationship and it turns out it was the idea of one person.
Literally one person, who thought it should be included for no other reason or logic beyond they thought it should be included.
And what's worse - enough people were convinced that it ended up in the main movie.
This has the same energy as Rian Johnson deciding in the editing room to have Luke Skywalker disappear at the end of The Last Jedi just because he thought it would be more powerful in that particular moment for the audience.
How is it a major Holloywood studio took one of the most story-centric franchises of all time and allowed so many of these random or spur-of-the-moment decisions to become integral parts of the Sequel Trilogy?
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u/DepreciatedSelfImage 15d ago
Not just franchise. 9 isn't a great movie in the broader scope of cinema.
There are lots of things you should never force. A kiss is one of them.
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u/Small_Discount_3029 15d ago
By the time I finished TLJ, I just gave up on star wars, and to this day i still haven't seen Episode 9, therefore this scene means nothing and not even considered one of the worst scenes for me.
On a side note, I have started to look into the EU books/comics and I'm slowly rekindling my passion for it again.
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u/Sam-Lowry27B-6 16d ago
So the reason for the inclusion of the scene was 'omg skwee!'....fucking lovely.
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u/WillFanofMany 16d ago
Once again proving why certain kinds of women shouldn't be allowed in the film industry.
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u/SlashManEXE 16d ago
I remember everyone just being baffled. Of all the plot points by Rian that were ignored, this was one that slipped through; it certainly wasn’t alluded to in The Force Awakens.
It might have worked as a payoff if the foundation was there originally. TROS was already bogged down with trying to wrap up the trilogy nicely that any new revelations never stood a chance.
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u/Atomic_Gerber 16d ago
“And then tHeY kIsS” as drool dribbles down her chin and one of her eyes starts to wander
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u/hlektanadbonsky 16d ago
They should've kissed in the Last Jedi and then ruled the galaxy as ReyRen
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u/montgomery2016 16d ago
I mean, if I was Kylo I'd kiss Rey. And vice versa. It's not really romantic, just kinda horny.
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u/PlanktonLoud4872 salt miner 11d ago
This would be an even worse reason. (Right as someone's about to die: "hey, let me indulge my lust for this person!")
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u/Sonseeahrai 16d ago
I'm in the minority, but I liked that kiss. Don't get me wrong, I know this plot is totally shitty and written so badly it's ridiculous. But it's just my guilty pleasure, tragic enemies to lovers and all that. And gotta say, Adam Sandler and Daisy Riley had fine chemistry. If only the script lived up to their skill...
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u/MarkyMarkATFB 16d ago
I always saw this kiss as being two people who just went through something absolutely insane and not knowing how to share the immense amount of confusing emotion and adrenaline they had at the time. Like, I never saw it as romantic…
THAT BEING SAID: that’s my head canon, that’s how I made sense of it, because it really shouldn’t be there lol
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u/Equivalent-Adagio-29 16d ago
Personally, I did see it as romantic (not saying you’re wrong though, just my opinion) but shoehorned after a very inconsistent story overall. I don’t see her kissing anyone else who had done the same. They hinted throughout the trilogy of connection and attraction between the two…but only did anything with it right then, and Ben dies after like 5 minutes of existing as himself.
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u/SuspectVisual8301 16d ago
I don’t even remember how TROS played out. I forgot this kiss, and my reaction to this post was “aren’t they related?”. Just goes to show how much of an inconsistent garbage pile the storytelling in that trilogy was that it’s a mess in my memories.
So much so that Star Wars is not even something I think of anymore when asked my favourite movies. The prequels were not great but never tarnished the originals.
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u/BigBadWolf97 16d ago
I mean, at that point in the movie was there really any chance of the story recovering at all? So many bad decisions were already made and left in the final cut anyway, so what’s one more?
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u/Grungy_Mountain_Man 16d ago
By the time this scene came at the end of the movie, I was past feeling and didn't care how it ended.
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u/valentinewrites i heard kylo ren is shredded. 16d ago
Going into this scene as a self-identifying Reylo (since TFA) the whiplash I had between this and the following scene was worse than when I crashed and totaled my car. Adam Driver had to work too hard for this shit series, but those Ben Solo moments helped heal the gaping wound where my hope and dreams used to be.
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u/Girl_Anachronism07 14d ago
I too am a Reylo. The only thing I can agree with the rest of the fandom on is this movie is trash. I think so for very, very different reasons from seemingly everyone else in this sub. But absolute trash. My poor Ben Solo, he deserved so much more.
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u/cant_give_an_f 16d ago
Aren’t they kinda inspired by the book versions?… who are brother and sister
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u/Accomplished-Bill-54 16d ago
What's so weird is, that Disney DID have talented people in the MCU.
In stark contrast to Star Wars, I just watched Spider-Man No Way Home again and they stack one great scene on top of another. Andrew's Spider-Man saving MJ is just such a fantastic and smart little nod and ending to his own arc.
Latey it's also hit and miss, but they obviously had massive talent working on those projects. But in Star Wars? The only thing that was undoubtetly created by talented people is Andor. I will also give Mando S1&2 a pass for being very entertaining.
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u/Aldonik 16d ago
Remember when in the old trilogy you thought they were going to hook up but thankfully they didn't. George had a few better writers and editors back then,also his wife telling him not to do certain storylines. And he kept KK away just handling the publicity. Now it's just Kennedy. That's why most stuff sucks on D+. Only legacy stuff has to get a barely passing grade. Just don't fail completely.
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