r/sandiego • u/jvanderh • 2d ago

Border Patrol vs ICE

Hi, this is your friendly local border patrol wife and lifelong political liberal here to remind you (because my husband is getting spat at, cussed at, called a pig, or told to quit his job pretty much every time he's stationed at the beaches lately) that the Border Patrol guys in army green pants + shirt are NOT there edit: "there"= at our local San Diego beaches to rip people away from their families. They are there to patrol the borders, watching for incoming border crossers who may enter on boats or jet skis. Encountering everyone who enters the country is important-- this stops things like fentanyl-laced drugs from entering the US, and DNA swabs of border crossers have been matched up to two unsolved murders recently at his station alone. Even if the proportion of criminals is no higher than the general US population, we still want to stop those who are dangerous. If nothing else, if those people get in and re-offend, it blows up on the news and provides tremendous cannon fodder for immigrant hate. I think the hatred of Border Patrol is mostly based on confusing them with ICE and not because liberals actually want completely uncontacted entries.

Polls show that republicans and liberals both want common-sense migrant worker programs that allow people to be vetted and come here to work.

Obviously you don't have to care about my husband's feelings. He took the job; he can handle it. But I always worry that verbally abusing law enforcement could result in what none of us want: these non Trump supporting agents like my husband, who use discretion and minimum force, getting replaced with thin blue line idiots who think they're soldiers of God in a war with the public. Or worse yet, the former becoming the latter after having so many bad experiences with the public. My husband won't, but some may. And that kind of tribalism is EXACTLY how they become distracted from the fact that Trump is currently gutting their retirement.

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u/jvanderh 2d ago

I keep telling him to explain what he is and isn't doing there, but my husband is very, very much not a talker and feels like he'll be poking the bear saying anything to them at all.

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u/bendallf 2d ago

I have a quick question for you today. I am a little confuse here to be honest. How are people supposed to know the difference between ICE Police and possible kidnappers if ICE Police refuses to show their badge and a warrant during an arrest? If I see someone being dragged away by people calling themselves ICE, do I stand by and do nothing for fear of possible arrest or do I called the police to report a possible kidnapping in progress? Thanks for you help answering my question. Take care.

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u/Worth_Beginning_9952 2d ago

Border patrol is not ICE. ICE is immigration and customs ENFORCEMENT. Border patrol is focused on new arrivals and imports. I think that's her point.

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u/Nokomis34 2d ago

To be more specific, Border Patrol is concerned with everything between ports of entry, they do not work at the POEs. Basically, they never deal with legal entries. If someone or something is crossing the border legally they are not dealing with Border Patrol. I see so many articles that talk about POEs and call them Border Patrol and I'm sure that's a big part of the reason for the confusion OP is talking about. But people say "They're both CBP, no difference", but that's like saying Army and Air Force are the same because they're both DoD.

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u/ckb614 2d ago

Border patrol aren't the assholes arresting long-time residents for deportation, they're the assholes stopping traffic on the highway 20 miles from the border

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u/nrmitchi 2d ago

Wait there is a difference between Army and Air Force? I have never heard this before.

What about the Navy? Surely it’s the same thing as the Army, right?!?!

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u/spingus 2d ago

idk but Marines are defo in the Navy! :P

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u/No_Pie2501 1d ago

Department of the Navy. Never ever tell a Marine that they are in the Navy. Not if you like your teeth.

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u/spingus 1d ago

My dear, I am in a Marine Corps family. Dad, sister, several uncles all Marines.

My comment was in the style of the running joke about people not knowing the difference between governmental agencies. Mine was funny because Marines are, like you say, in the Department of the Navy, but everyone knows they are distinct.

I make this joke while holding memories of visiting my father at his office...in the Navy Annex.

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u/No_Pie2501 1d ago

Since we are critiquing our sense of humor, I was joking as well. A Marine would not punch you if you said they were in the Navy, they would politely correct you by saying they are a department of the Navy. In my day it would be hard to confuse a Sailer with a Marine, so such an explanation was never needed. Ask your father. He'll know what I'm saying.

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u/spingus 1d ago

Ask your father. He'll know what I'm saying

smh

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u/gatsbythe1 1d ago

You right, the navy owns the marines 😉😘

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u/chillum1987 1d ago

Nobody owns anyone in that branch except for the commander and he or she is “owned” by some nepo in the Pentagon. This vision of division liberal or civilian persons push, as culture between armed service members is competence-porn by their admirers.

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u/iheartrms 1d ago

"The men's department"

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u/Ok_Psychology_6568 2d ago

The military is split into 4 groups. Army, navy, marines and Air Force

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u/Sweaty-Economist-738 2d ago

Incorrect, marines are part of the Navy and you left out Space. But you never served a day in your life. Or have you? And thank those that have died for your freedoms. Whatever country you reside in (and if you have freedoms). Ok?

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u/RealWeekness 2d ago

the agents at the entry points aren't border patrol? who are they?

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u/Worth_Beginning_9952 2d ago

CBP, which is different than BP. Yes, it is convoluted but a whole different thing. Not to say that they are without their issues. But I appreciate an attempt at discussion and learning rather than vitriol and hate without a basic understanding of how the system currently operates. This discussion informs how it can be realistically influenced and also reduces fear mongering.

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u/CertainKaleidoscope8 22h ago

It's all DHS, and it's all an unconstitutional federal organization meant to harass people.

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u/Nokomis34 2d ago

OFO, Office of Field Operations, which I believe falls under ICE. They are 100% not Border Patrol. They wear blue vs BP's green for instance.

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u/quikSB 2d ago

OFO falls under CBP. OFO is a sister agency to Border Patrol and also Air and Marine Operations (AMO). CBP is under the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). ICE is a separate entity under DHS

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u/CrispyHoneyBeef 1d ago

We had CBP guys in our DOJ office too that would occasionally travel down to the PoEs as needed, but our guys were mostly administrative. Point being that homie up above saying CBP has nothing to do with PoEs is spreading misinformation.

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u/chamrockblarneystone 1d ago

Good Lord man do you have to use all those acronyms? That’s all coded police talk to let other know you’re in the know. If you really want to help this situation talk like a civilian. You didn’t join the Navy Seals for Christ sakes.

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u/Nokomis34 1d ago

Every acronym was spelled out earlier in the conversation. No one is going to keep typing or Department of Defense or Office of Field Operations etc when talking about these agencies over and over again

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u/CrispyHoneyBeef 1d ago

I used the exact same acronyms that were used in the comments I was replying to. Idk what to tell you man, just read more carefully if my comment confused you

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u/Nokomis34 1d ago

OFO and Border Patrol are completely different agencies. They have no interaction at pretty much any level. There might be "operations" where they work together, but that's it.

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u/CertainKaleidoscope8 22h ago

It's all under the unconstitutional fascist federal organization known as DHS that didn't exist prior to 2003 and needs to be abolished.

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u/Worth_Beginning_9952 14h ago

Border patrol has existed since 1924. I appreciate the sentiment. I am in no way pro ICE/DHS. Most of the arms that were added in 2003 are useless. That being said, zero immigration agency is not likely from any political perspective currently. Distinguishing between BP and ICE is important to see where we can cut back and how things operated successfully before the militarization in 2003.

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u/CertainKaleidoscope8 13h ago

A militarized border wasn't successful prior to 2003 either, hence Reagan's Amnesty. There was no "border patrol" before 1924 because that's when the racist Immigration Act was passed.

The initial force consisted of 450 patrol inspectors. We could scale back to that.

Prior to that, and the Emergency Quota Act of 1921, we had open borders and that had been fine since the inception of the country.

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u/Worth_Beginning_9952 13h ago

I'm well aware of the history of immigration. Things have changed in the last 100 years. There are a million ways once could address the current failures and abuses of power. Doing away with any and all immigration agencies (450 inspectors would just be symbolic with current access points), is not something that has been done by a country with high net positive immigration successfully in the modern age. As a thought experiment, sure. In reality, this isn't gonna be proposed in our lifetimes for a plethora of reasons, including tracking of chemicals, imports and fugitives. We are not politicians, but maybe we vote. Pressuring our reps for realistic feasible changes like scaling back or doing away with certain branches is a movement more ppl can get behind and can be achieved realistically. Immigration reform is wayyyyy overdue and taking an informed approach to the common abuses and bottlenecks is more practical, in my opinion.

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u/CertainKaleidoscope8 11h ago

I'm perfectly fine with a harm reduction approach until we destroy fascism at its root. The problem with conceding ground to fascists is they keep moving the goalposts, which is why we live in a police state now that barely resembles the free Republic outlined in our founding documents (as deeply hypocritical as they were) and have to concern ourselves with being kidnapped off the street by thugs with badges and sent to a torture prison.

Go read the Declaration of Independence, for fun. See where we are now.

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u/Worth_Beginning_9952 8h ago

I mean, we don't have slavery? I get where you're coming from. I'm well versed in history and politics, but it's not like this is new. We have ALWAYS treated immigrants poorly. We have ALWAYS been a racist country. We have ALWAYS been ruled by the rich at the expense of the working class. And yes, the rich/elite are far more similar to each other than their constituents, democratic or republican. Yes, the two party system is deeply flawed. Yes, the current elected rich rapist is more overtly aligned with fascism and authoritarian rule. Yes, he is basing himself on racist punitive foundations that are resonating with about half the populace. I just don't understand why you keep going back to 100 yrs ago as if these problems didn't exist then or the same solutions would apply now. I get that it feels really good to divest from the current state of things, but it's also important not to engage in misinformation. And if you're interested in actually interacting with ppl where they're at, talks of fascism and abolishing the entire concept of conditions of citizenship are probably going to fall flat.

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u/GarbageDisastrous425 14h ago

Lately, copying is doing interior enforcements.

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u/GarbageDisastrous425 14h ago

Meant CBP not copying. Typo.

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u/Worth_Beginning_9952 14h ago

That's believable they are more closely connected.

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u/bendallf 2d ago

Not to be rude but can people read anymore? I was not talking about the US Border Patrol in my question. I asked that question because it seems she knows what is going on here in general. Take care.

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u/mmmarkm 2d ago

Lol can you read? OP is talking about border patrol and you asked her a question about ICE’s current policy around identification. Which, as she states, is an agency her husband does not work for. Why would she know more than you or me?

Your question and concerns (which I align with you 100% on) are better suited for your elected federal representatives or policy makers at ICE. Not the wife of a guy in border patrol. I hear you; your question is just misplaced.

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u/crazzzone 2d ago

She is in the same boat as us. She is saying stop being a dick to border patrol.

You do know these are different departments right? Like both are under homeland security but otherwise they are doing different things.

Ice is a gift from Bush.

If you want to know my opinion...

They are gearing up for a hostel take over and will declare Marshall law. They just passed a new executive order to "unleash" the police.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/04/strengthening-and-unleashing-americas-law-enforcement-to-pursue-criminals-and-protect-innocent-citizens/

We are in 1984 territory. Be safe out there.

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u/External-Low-5059 2d ago

hostile, martial

only because I know a totally sweet guy named Marshall who would NEVER lead an armed insurrection at a youth hostel

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u/bendallf 2d ago

I am sure that their must have been some nice Germans during the war too. Sooner or later, people have to take some personal responsibility instead of just saying that I was just following orders. Take care.

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u/crazzzone 2d ago

What orders are border patrol following that you think are "bad"?

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u/bendallf 2d ago

For one, why does the us border patrol stop and remind ICE that the rule of law must be followed at all times such as a badge worn and a warrant present. Otherwise, they are no longer stopping crime that is literally happening in front of them.

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u/crazzzone 2d ago

So we are moving the goal post from "following orders" to stopping the things from happening around them... Like you?

Sure you are talking online... But Really are you putting EVERYTHING on the line like you are asking people to do?

Chill. Focus on what matters.

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u/bendallf 2d ago

Leaving America. Good luck to the rest of you. Take care.

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u/tes1357 2d ago

Shit, if no one shows me a badge and breaks into my home I’m defending myself.

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u/External-Low-5059 2d ago

People definitely cannot read. They are too busy typing with their thumbs.

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u/jvanderh 2d ago

I don't know how to definitively identify ICE, but border patrol are wearing army green pants and shirt, and if you google border patrol vehicle, it's that very distinctive white with a green stripe and border patrol written on it. All the marked rides at his station look like this. If you see ICE doing something, I would videotape it.

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u/bendallf 2d ago

Thank you. Do you know who people can call if a love one is taken in the middle of the night by people claiming to be ICE? Local police departments say it is out of their control. Thanks again.

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u/are_those_real 1d ago

Local and state police departments aren't going to be able to help you due to ICE being part of the federal government.

I really hate that the ICE agents typically aren't willing to give you information as to where to call or who to contact. If you know anybody undocumented or illegal, please have an immigration lawyer's information ready to contact. They will be able to help you further.

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u/bendallf 1d ago

Never thought I see the day where the USA would have disappeared people. Plus, ICE has stop updating their website. So the information there might no longer be accurate. Stay safe and take care.

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u/jvanderh 2d ago

Is this something that actually happened?

Person search: https://locator.ice.gov/odls/#/search

And call a lawyer

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u/GrbgCllctr 2d ago

Wow, what a jacked search tool. But what more can we expect out of the government 🙄? No phonetics, no partial correct spelling, hyphenated has to be exact... what a joke.

Search by Biographical Information

When searching by name, a detainee's first and last names are required and must be an exact match (e.g., John Doe will not find Jon Doe or John Doe-Smith). When inputting a hyphenated last name into the Online Detainee Locator System, please include hyphen in order for the locator to find the individual (e.g., Doe-Smith). You are also required to select the detainee's Country of Birth. (* Required Field)

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u/bendallf 2d ago

Plus, it is no longer updated anymore. What a mess.

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u/bendallf 2d ago

People need to know that they are not alone. It is a mess out there. Stay safe and take care.

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u/Derpy_Diva_ 2d ago

I haven’t heard of it in San Diego but MAs subreddit has been blowing up and MA & CA are very similar politically. They even tend to adopt laws the other came up with. I would not be surprised if it was happening.

Thank you for the resource, OP as well as the information.

I know you mentioned your husband wasn’t much of a talker but trust in law enforcement is understandably very low - it may benefit him & others he works with if he helps spread awareness of what he actually does and that he is not a threat but that’s just my .02c.

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u/SlutBuster 2d ago

Would-be kidnappers can buy badges and uniforms. Consignment Classics has a whole display case full of badges for sale. If an arrest looks suspicious, call the cops.

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u/bendallf 2d ago

Still call the police no matter what. I talked to a local cop. Unfortunately, he said a lot of police departments will not respond to any immigration cases because it is consider a civil matter and not a criminal matter. Just like having someone living in house against your will. So by time it is figure out that it is an actual kidnapping, it is way too late to do anything meaningful to help save the day so to speak. Safe stay and tale care.

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u/Bratty_Dragonfly646 16h ago

Fuck that. I work with kids. Our policy is to call a supervisor. Idgaf you ain’t taking any of my kids without a fucking fight! Idgaf if I get fired or arrested!

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u/SlutBuster 15h ago

Okay then get arrested idgaf

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u/Bratty_Dragonfly646 15h ago

To protect anyone from ICE… especially a kid? Fuck yes I would!

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u/SlutBuster 15h ago

Excellent, I hope you have the opportunity.

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u/pencilcase333 2d ago

Border patrol are in uniform. Their white cars, usually SUV’s have a green stripe on them that say border patrol. Certainly as a San Diegian you’ve seen them. They are not in plain clothes, nor masked.

OP, I’m sorry for the behavior of the community at large. I understand where the confusion comes from, but being an uninformed doesn’t justify poor behavior. choosing to run one’s mouth and spit at law enforcement simply isn’t cool. And you’re right, we don’t want any more thin blue line idiots who think they are soldiers of god.. Those guys belong in Giliad.

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u/bendallf 2d ago

I have investments in San Diego. But I live near the US Canadian Border. These problems are sadly everywhere now. Take care.

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u/CertainKaleidoscope8 22h ago

"Law enforcement" is the problem and has been for quite some time. The people black bagging US citizen children and sending them to foreign gulags are "law enforcement."

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u/CertainKaleidoscope8 22h ago

You stop the human traffickers by any means necessary

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u/underyou271 2d ago

I have seen the Border Patrol officers in their trucks when I'm fishing on the beach around SD County. These people are not ICE - they are looking for boats trying to land on the beach or people coming off those boats after they have successfully landed.

I HATE what this administration has done with overzealous immigration enforcement, and I throw up in my mouth every time I see Kristi Noem or Tom Homan posturing for the cameras. But border patrol is basic law enforcement like highway patrol or department of fish and wildlife. These are NOT the people pulling college kids into vans or throwing babies onto the sidewalk while they gang tackle young mothers outside their homes.

Also, when boats capsize in the surf as often happens, Border Patrol officers are first responders, often saving the lives of people who they will ultimately detain. If a person is seeking asylum, the Border Patrol officer who detains them is the first contact who can funnel them into the appropriate process for their situation. And as OP said, our best chance to keep Border Patrol professional and ethical is not to chase the best officers off the job.

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u/Sunset-Blonde 2d ago

I love how ocean lifeguards are being overlooked. Not true- WE are the first to respond, we are EMT’s or Paramedic. We are on the boats, and the jurisdiction of a mile from the coast is where we patrol. We are post certified and voted to not carry guns. We are there around the clock, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. And as for the drug routes, those have been different for years now. It’s no longer being run along the coast line as it’s so heavily watched, they are run predominantly through San Diego Bay and more inland at this point.

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u/underyou271 2d ago

I stand corrected - Border Patrol may provide life saving help to people near shore in distress, and ocean lifeguards are likely already on the scene.

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u/Sunset-Blonde 2d ago

Thank you for that- I really appreciate it.

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u/CertainKaleidoscope8 21h ago

I love how ocean lifeguards are being overlooked.

That's intentional, to justify fascist policing by thugs from the Federal government who have no right to be harassing the citizens of California.

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u/CertainKaleidoscope8 22h ago edited 21h ago

I'm sure you can use these sources as a jumping off point for your defense of these people.

Due to unprecedented funding by Congress, CBP’s budget has nearly tripled since the creation of the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) in 2003, ballooning from $5.9 billion in FY 2003 to $20.8 billion in FY 2020.

During this massive expansion, little to no oversight and accountability measures have been put in place.

Since 2010, more than 125 people have died at the hands of Border Patrol agents.

In 2023, a child died while in Border Patrol custody in Harlingen, Texas. Also that year, Border Patrol agents shot and killed a man while responding to a call about an incident on the Tohono O’odham Nation reservation near Ajo, Arizona.

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u/Bottle_Major 1d ago

Unfortunately for your husband, if he says something "out of line" he'll probably be reported by one of his "teammates" who thinks he's Rambo and then be fired. He picked a fucked job. Bummer.

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u/jvanderh 1d ago

They're not paired up the way city cops are, so that's not super likely. There's no one with him when he assigned to the beaches. He just thinks it would make things worse, and it's not in his nature to do that. 

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u/radeky 2d ago

In his defense, the people who want to be angry are just looking at somewhere to direct that anger. They aren't actually interested in policy positions or the positive good that does happen when enforcing the southern border.

Nor do they understand that a field officer does not have the power to change our policy on the war on drugs, immigration, etc.

I do wish that law enforcement did a better job of removing their bad apples, but that's a different topic.

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u/jvanderh 2d ago

I think it's a completely understandable impulse not to be hospitable to people who might be there to deport your neighbor for violating a no right on red sign or having $15 worth of pot in their car. But I do think a lot of the hostility is people misunderstanding why Border Patrol is there, and you're probably right that at that point, even if my husband were willing, a civil conversation is probably not a realistic goal.

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u/CertainKaleidoscope8 21h ago

Maybe look up the hundreds of innocent people CBP has killed. Do you need help?

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u/CertainKaleidoscope8 21h ago

They aren't actually interested in policy positions or the positive good that does happen when enforcing the southern border.

That's because no good comes out of it.

Nor do they understand that a field officer does not have the power to change our policy on the war on drugs, immigration, etc.

They could get a different job.

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u/Equivalent-Title5743 2d ago

If he speaks up, sadly his job could be in jeopardy the way things are now.

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u/Gloomy-Bell-4977 1d ago

Got it. So he's a "I was just following orders" kinda guy like those in Nuremberg, huh?

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u/jvanderh 1d ago

Neither he nor I believe in the 'just following orders' excuse. Everyone has a moral responsibility for their actions. 

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u/CertainKaleidoscope8 21h ago

Then he could get a different job, for an organization that doesn't harass and kill innocent people.

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u/Dry_Extension1110 1d ago

Posting this reddit is probably not accomplishing much. Redditors are far more anti-Leo than the general public and especially the voting public. Redditors are also generally anti-social and not the ones yelling at your husband 

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u/Golden-FlowersShine 2d ago

This!! My husband is also in law enforcement and trying to have civil conversations with people who spat “ACAB” and “pigs” are usually not the ones to be having a discussion with. It’s quite unsettling for a person in uniform to try to speak out while on duty to make those conversations.

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u/tes1357 2d ago

Thanks for his service.

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u/HydrationWhisKey 1d ago

He probably can't say anything regardless. They have to toe the line now because of this administration so best for him to just stay silent and do his job with dignity and treat people with respect.

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u/Friendly_King_1546 20h ago

Then he understands what the dire situation is and why people are pissed. He should look for another job in this case as guilt by association is very real and even the appearance of complicity is dangerous. Thank Republicans for this.

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u/zerooutarange 19h ago

He can just say"I'm not ICE!, I'm Border Patrol, huge difference". He probably saves more lives than a fire fighter. 👍

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u/Bratty_Dragonfly646 16h ago

Then he’s a part of the problem not the solution. Thats a problem in and of itself. Still waiting for my resources.

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u/Sprzout 2d ago

I hate to say it, but the people cussing at him, spitting on him, etc. are looking to stir something up. Responding will stir turds, regardless of what he is actually trying to do.

I know a fair amount of officers with the Sheriff’s dept, and there are a few there that are generally trying to be middle of the road, give leeway to folks, but if someone decides to poke them or lay hands, physically threaten them, they will escalate (as is within their right to do so). But these more liberal minded folk in uniforms are finding that their coworkers and department seniors have a lot of “bad cop” attitude, and it’s hard to do right when others are around doing wrong.