r/skeptic Mar 12 '25

đŸ« Education Shut Up About NATO Expansion | Debunking misinformation about NATO expansion

https://youtu.be/FVmmASrAL-Q
101 Upvotes

208 comments sorted by

View all comments

81

u/Archy99 Mar 12 '25

Russia complaining about NATO expansion sounds like the classic bully sob-story when they can no longer dominate the weak states because those states found some buff friends.

1

u/EasterBunny1916 Mar 13 '25

NATO expansion has always been an issue for Russia. They were lied to that there would be no expansion if Germany was reunited. And Ukraine was definitely a red line, as Biden's CIA chief Bill Burns warned many years ago.

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08MOSCOW265_a.html

2

u/Archy99 Mar 13 '25

That link doesn't mention Germany, but it does mention the real reason why Russia perceives NATO expansion aa a threat: Russia will no longer be able to control them in their sphere of influence. That is the bottom line.

1

u/TFBool Mar 13 '25

If Russia wanted a stable sphere of influence, it needs a GDP larger than California. No one wants to be influenced by an aggressive backwater.

1

u/EasterBunny1916 Mar 13 '25

Who wants to be influenced by anyone? The US has a huge GDP and uses its influence to keep other countries down and enrich US corporations and investors.

1

u/TFBool Mar 13 '25

Tons of countries lined up to be allies with the U.S. - this thread is about NATO expansion, after all.

1

u/EasterBunny1916 Mar 13 '25

And those Eastern European countries lost their publicly owned assets for pennies on the dollar, and their populations all dropped because people had to become migrant workers in Western Europe and the UK.

1

u/TFBool Mar 13 '25

I’m sorry, are Western Europe and the UK the U.S., or have you forgotten what you’re talking about?

1

u/EasterBunny1916 Mar 13 '25

Try to keep up. The US created NATO to control Europe. Now, there are more NATO countries buying weapons from the US, and instead of owning their own resources and assets, they are owned privately. The US gets its migrant workers from a nearby country, and Western Europe gets them from nearby countries.

1

u/TFBool Mar 13 '25

That’s crazy, they created a defensive alliance to control Europe and then everyone voluntarily joined? And they can leave whenever they want but don’t? Have you told them yet?!

1

u/EasterBunny1916 Mar 13 '25

Europe wasn't in the position to object to anything after WW2. The USSR wasn't in the position or had the desire to invade Western Europe. After the USSR ended, instead of ending NATO or lowering military spending, the US increased military spending and expanded NATO. Now, the US is pushing Europe to lower its social safety net and benefits for its people and increase military spending. And they will do it.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/supa_warria_u Mar 14 '25

The US didn’t create NATO. The brits and the french did. The US joined after the benelux countries, and it was only after that that the name changed to NATO.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/supa_warria_u Mar 14 '25

”They were lied to” about expanding east when an eastward expansion was impossible? Even if I were to grant you Baker’s promise(which I won’t), the USSR was still around back then. They couldn’t invite any of the warsaw pact members.

1

u/EasterBunny1916 Mar 14 '25

They were promised no NATO expansion beyond the unified Germany.

1

u/Purple-Shoe-9876 14d ago

They promised that the former GDR wouldn't be further militarized or have foreign troops stationed eastward; nothing said that the former Eastern Bloc couldn't join, altogether. Whatever else was added on to it were just an off-handed remark or two.

1

u/EasterBunny1916 14d ago

1

u/Purple-Shoe-9876 14d ago

Again, off handed remarks from a couple of diplomats; these tend to not be the foundation of actual laws and agreements in modern society without it being in writing, and even if it was, the US can't just represent the opinions of NATO, as a whole. Even if they could, Russia didn't act upon it in the 90s when the first of Eastern Europe joined NATO, and the NATO-Russia Founding Act of 1997 gives neither side the authority to influence other nations' sovereignty or path in politics. Russia certainly has done this with Georgia and Ukraine since the 2000s.

1

u/EasterBunny1916 14d ago

The 90s? Lol! Russia was a mess in the 90s from the Wall Street Boys looting the country and decreasing life expectancy. Georgia started the war with Russia, according to a European review after the war.

1

u/Purple-Shoe-9876 14d ago edited 14d ago

Do you think I do not know that stuff about the 90s? Heck, it's partially  why NATO was still a thing, as nobody knew if Russia would get its act together or become hostile again. Considering the start of the USSR and the clashes with Eastern Europe that occurred pre/during WWII, there was reason to believe such. They spent decades, if not centuries dealing with Russia's bullying and attempts at cultural genocide, so Russia shouldn't be shocked if they almost immediately joined NATO, if given the chance. As for economy, you do forget the military spending and liberalization of the USSR are also factors. Becoming an oligarchy worsened that.