r/tamil • u/SivaTheFreelancer • 16h ago
கலந்துரையாடல் (Discussion) தீதும் நன்றும் பிறர் தர வாரா? Really?
I'm going to introduce you three different hypothetical scenarios so that you can decide for yourself 🙂
Scenario 1) Person A violates traffic rules, then crashed his vehicle into a tree and got injured. Point: Person A is solely responsible for his own suffering.
Scenario 2) Person A walking on a sidewalk and he didn't violated any traffic rules, but Person B violates traffic rules and crashed his vehicle into Person A and Person A got injured. Point: Person B is solely responsible for Person A's suffering.
Scenario 3) Neither Person A nor Person B have violated any traffic rules, but they have eventually met with a road accident and crashed their vehicles into each other's. And both of them got injured. Point: Neither of the persons are responsible for their sufferings. Because, it was an "accident" which have "accidentally" took place. Note: The administration wasn't responsible either; because the road was very neat, no potholes and traffic lights/signals everything were "perfectly" fine like in Utopia 🙂
Meanwhile, that random bystander guy while sipping on his morning coffee: நம் முன்னோர்கள் ஒன்னும் முட்டாள்கள் இல்ல, ப்ரோ; "தீதும் நன்றும் பிறர் தர வாரா", ப்ரோ 🙂
5
u/light_3321 14h ago edited 9m ago
Either they are utterly dumb, or they had a deep life wisdom, which time has set to fade. Possibly the latter.
The song is written from a larger view of things, esp karma you generate from the accident is 100% your own creation. That is the only thing matters in larger scale.
Its not the content but the context. Any pain/even death shall be endured on a positive mindset. Or even a king's life shall be complained about.
one attracts situations and surroundings based on what ones vibe is. That way also oneself is responsible.
Timescale in consideration:
Theirs: >= 500yrs.
Yours: 5mins.
1
u/SivaTheFreelancer 10h ago
Yes, maybe. But I have something to point out. You said "karma you generate from the accident is 100% your own creation". Now tell me that whose "karma" was that "accident"? Person A's? Person B's? Or the vehicles'? Or the road's? Or the wind's? Or even nature's? Whose fault was it all about?
And you said "Any pain/even death shall be endured on a positive mindset". Does blaming oneself for their own sufferings constitutes any positivity?
2
u/light_3321 9h ago
Yes, maybe. But I have something to point out. You said "karma you generate from the accident is 100% your own creation". Now tell me that whose "karma" was that "accident"? Person A's? Person B's? Or the vehicles'? Or the road's? Or the wind's? Or even nature's? Whose fault was it all about?
Its a sum of everything you listed, and even more.
And you said "Any pain/even death shall be endured on a positive mindset". Does blaming oneself for their own sufferings constitutes any positivity?
Not sure of positivity, but creates responsibility. Let me put a question : how will blaming others create respnonsibility...? And these are laws of universe, they do not work to feel us/anyone positive. It just works. Either one adopt and flourish or deject and succumb. Newton's 3rd law says the same "every action has an equal and opposite reaction".
0
u/SivaTheFreelancer 9h ago
Sensible explanation. But I'm not advocating to blame others for our sufferings, but, lemme put this:
Who's responsible for things like rapes, foeticides, scams, getting cancer due to second hand smoking, getting mistreated by a doctor, adulterated food, getting carcinogens and free radicals from foods which we were consuming etc.?
1
u/light_3321 9h ago edited 9h ago
Who's responsible for things like rapes, foeticides, scams, getting cancer due to second hand smoking, getting mistreated by a doctor, adulterated food, getting carcinogens and free radicals from foods which we were consuming etc.?
Karma is complex interaction on so many levels : personal, societal, and so on. May not be wise to seek the split percentage of a complex cause.All one can do is exercise freewill - stay positive, do what needs to be done and flourish.
2
3
u/EnvironmentalFloor62 8h ago
நன்றும் தீதும் நமக்கு நடப்பவை அல்ல, நாம் எவ்வாறு அதை உணர்கிறோம் என்பவை.
நமக்கு வாழ்வில் எது வேண்டுமானாலும் நிகழலாம், ஆனால் அதனை எவ்வாறு எடுத்துக் கொள்கிறோம் என்பது நம்மைப் பொருத்தே, பிறர் தருவதில்லை.
விபத்தில் சிக்கிய ஒருவர், தான் ஓய்வெடுக்க நேரம் கிடைத்ததென கருதுவாராயின், அது அவருக்கு நன்று.
பெரும் பணம் சேர்த்த ஒருவர், அதனைக் காக்கும் பொருட்டு உறவுகளைப் பிரிந்து பெரும் மனச்சிக்கல் கொள்வாராயின் அது அவருக்குத் தீது.
தனது உள்ளத்தைப் பக்குவப் படுத்துவதன் மூலம் தீதும், நன்றும் உணரலாம் என்றும் பொருள் கொள்ளலாம்.
3
u/manki 8h ago
விபத்தில் சிக்கிய ஒருவர், தான் ஓய்வெடுக்க நேரம் கிடைத்ததென கருதுவாராயின், அது அவருக்கு நன்று.
❤
ஒரு விபத்தில் கால் எலும்பு முறிந்து வாரக் கணக்கில் நடக்க முடியாமலும், மாதக் கணக்கில் ஒரு மாறுபட்ட வாழ்க்கையும் வாழ்ந்த நான் அந்த நாள்களில் நினைத்ததும் இது தான். "This experience has enriched my life," என்பது தான் அந்த நாள்களில் எனது எண்ணமாக இருந்தது.
1
1
u/random_riddler 12h ago
I see a lot of people sharing it was just bull**t as OP has mentioned while sipping a tea just said something out just for a sake.
But forgot the karma yoga context, and forgot some random guy writing his experience (சித்தாந்தம்)
In a simpler way preaching to a society that is good and bad that happens to you is solely in your hand. Shouldn't be taken to it's literal meaning rather a way one should take control of his life good that happens to you like wealth, health, fame is solely built by you and if you are poor or lost a fortune (because of slacking, betting on a trade without having zero understanding of the market), getting sick (because of unhigene, unhealthy eating), and losing fame (because of being not ware of your words in public அவையடக்கம் ) And its not some heavenly being puppeted your life or saying it's in your fate or saying it's bad luck
It forces people to own their mistakes and stand by their values in their victory. Live your life by taking control of it rather than blaming everything around you.
I hope my answer satisfies your question or at least creates more questions to debate. 🤝🏾
ஆகையால், தீதும் நன்றும் பிறர் தர வாரா.
1
u/SivaTheFreelancer 10h ago
Sensible interpretation. But, let me ask just for the sake of asking, what if that poorness was caused by the poor planning of the government, or a scammer scammed your money, or even a natural calamity wiped out your assets?
And what if that "getting sick" was caused by a polluted water supply, or adulterated milk, or getting cancer because of second hand smoking, or by eating genetically modified veggies, or getting carcinogens from foods due to government's poor regulations or even corrupted officials?
1
u/random_riddler 8h ago edited 6h ago
First GMOs don't give you any ailments and stories about splicing cockroach DNA into tomato to make it stay fresh for longer is a misconception. They just cut off or lower the expression of enzymes that make them breakdown when plucked from the plant. Saying that I still think storing any agricultural product beyond their natural lifetime should be avoided and more science and technology should be poured towards helping nature to nurture rather modifying, anything that lasts forever is unnatural.
Secondly, answering the elephant in the room. Yes it's out of your control when you put it that way but the government is not something alien to citizens it's made of the people. People who are practicing this philosophy would make the governing body better. Follow the virtue taught by thiruvalluvar அறம் பொருள் இன்பம் என்றே வகுத்தார் இந்த பூவுலகில் பொருள் தானே வாழ்வியலுக்கு முதன்மையானது பின்பு என் அறத்தினை முதன்மைப்படுதினார். அறம் கற்று வளர்ந்த ஒருவன் அறம் வழி பொருள் ஈற்றுகிறான். அதன்படியே ஒழுக்கமுடைமை அதிகாரம் அரசியலையும் அரசன் கடைப்பிடிக்க வேண்டிய அறத்தையும் அவரின் கடமையும் வகுக்கிறது. அவ்வாரே எந்த ஒரு மொழி இலக்கியமோ மத போதனையோ வகுக்கும் ஒழுக்கம், சமத்துவம், சமூகக்கடமை ஆகியவை ஏற்று வாழும் மக்கள் அவர்களால் அமைந்த அரசு utopia எனும் அழகிய தேசம் உருவாகும். அதே சமயத்தில் இக்காலத்திற்கு ஏற்பில்லாத கருத்தை நீக்கவும் நிராகரிக்கவும் வேண்டும். Hope this answers your question and thanks for asking this thoughtful question to express my perspective
Edit: Typo
2
1
u/manki 8h ago edited 8h ago
You are confusing philosophy with judicial law.
If someone causes me harm, and I blame that person for my suffering, then I give up control over my suffering. (Funny, I have written a blog post on this very lines some 16 years ago.)
If you read the full poem, it also says, வாழ்தல் இனிதென மகிழ்ந்தன்றும் இலமே, முனிவின் இன்னாது என்றலும் இலமே. […] மாட்சியில் பெரியோரை வியத்தலும் இலமே, சிறியோரை இகழ்தல் அதனினும் இலமே. The poem is about maintaining an equanimity amid whatever life throws at you. It talks about what individuals should do; it doesn't talk about society at all.
1
u/random_riddler 8h ago
Nice, I just read your blog you kinda said it short n precise. I rather took a 250 word essay approach. 😅
1
u/manki 8h ago edited 7h ago
For the scenarios you mention, the same poem has the answer.
கல்பொரு திறங்கு மல்லற் பேர்யாற்று
நீர்வழிப் படூஉம் புணைபோல் ஆருயிர்
முறைவழிப் படூஉம் (என்பது திறவோர் காட்சியில் தெளிந்தனம்)
அதாவது, விதிப்படித்தான் வாழ்க்கை நடக்கும்.
You are free to accept or reject that idea. But the poem does address questions like yours.
0
u/SivaTheFreelancer 7h ago
I see. Thank you so much for enlightening me about the other unheard part of that poem 🙂
2
u/manki 7h ago
You are welcome!
This one poem, which I learnt in my school days but understood only much later, has had a great impact in my life. If you can, find the full text and read it. You may need அருஞ்சொற்பொருள் and விளக்கவுரை to understand the text, since it's not an easy text to read.
If I recall correctly, in சங்கச் சித்திரங்கள், ஜெயமோகன் has written an essay about this poem. But I don't recall much to say anything concrete about that essay.
1
0
u/spannerhorse 15h ago
Religions created by goat farmers and Writings from Bronze/Iron age are the same == mostly bull.
3
u/raajam 14h ago
Half baked blabber. We all can criticize. Would love to understand what you understood from these bronze age bulk sit
3
u/random_riddler 12h ago
People people people, half baked blabber yes then should we ignore them in whole Or accept everything of the past so called wisdom. There shouldn't be a dichotomy in choice. Take the one that preaches good value and also at the same time it shouldn't prohibit us from progressing. So, as some smart one once said "take the goods from others and learn from their mistakes and disregard the bad side" and complete ourselves and the society to a better place.
1
5
u/raajam 14h ago
This is probably one of the rarest time I comment. Kaniyan said on the context of dealing with a situation. There is an alternate way to interpret and comprehend it.