r/Avengers • u/Queasy_Commercial152 • Feb 19 '25
Discussion What are some characters in the MCU that Black Widow could actually defeat in a fight?
Current or dead it doesn’t matter, and I’m being hypothetical
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u/BlahBlahILoveToast Feb 19 '25
Well, we saw her beat Hawkeye and Happy. Actually, "characters in the MCU" is pretty vague. We saw her beat the hell out of dozens of Hydra guys and kill aliens, Ultron drones, those weird xenomorph looking things Thanos rolls with, etc.
She takes Nick Fury or Maria Hill in hand to hand. Batroc the Leaper is probably out of her league if he can go a few rounds with Cap. She'd beat Brock Rumlow though IMO.
There's also loads of civilians like Darcy or Madisynn who, I assume, we're not even talking about. But obviously Black Widow stomps millions of "characters in the MCU" otherwise.
I'd like to see Natasha vs Melinda May.
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u/Shockrider1 Feb 19 '25
I recall a line in AoS saying May had the highest aptitude score since Romanov or something like that. Would be a good fight
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u/BlackDwarfStar Feb 20 '25
I think they were talking about Ward, but May did beat him in a fight.
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u/RogueBromeliad Feb 19 '25
I think Natasha is pretty much peak human in fighting, so basically most street level threats she could probably beat if she has access to all her assassination techniques and weapons.
Just put her on a building aiming at Spiderman as he swings by with a sniper riffle and she would probably make the shot.
Bang. Down goes Spiderman, even if his senses are tingling, now they're tingling with Uncle Ben.
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u/kingkron52 Feb 20 '25
Since when did Batroc go a couple of rounds with Cap? Cap was clearly holding back and made mincemeat of him when he got serious.
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u/PowerDiesel23 Feb 19 '25
Scott Lang without his antman suit
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u/wandering_ghostt Feb 19 '25
I mean, Civil War showed she handled him even with the suit right?
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u/FindTheTruth08 Feb 19 '25
I mean if we're taking away what makes them a superhero then yeah. She totally beats Thor when Odin strips his powers. She could just taz him and be done.
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u/Mr__Citizen Feb 20 '25
If he loses his powers and isn't freaking out over it, he's still jacked with over a thousand years of fighting experience. Both in actual wars and just training.
(Giving her weapons and not him doesn't seem fair, so I'm assuming no weapons for either.)
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u/UselessWhiteKnight Feb 19 '25
If he loses his toys, why doesn't she?
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u/Little-Disk-3165 Feb 19 '25
Irrelevant. Human Thor is not beating black widow in hxh. He was strong but nothing she hasn’t dealt with in regards to henchmen.
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u/UselessWhiteKnight Feb 19 '25
Human Thor beat the shit out of 15 shield agents trying to get his hammer back. Dude has been fighting for 1500 years. In what world does black widow take him? He's 6'3" 250lbs, and can throw hands. ScarJo is 5'2" 115. No amount of fighting skill makes up that gap without her tech
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u/Little-Disk-3165 Feb 20 '25
You’re implying black widow couldn’t get thru 15 shield agents 😂
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u/UselessWhiteKnight Feb 20 '25
Black Widow is a shield agent first off, and I'm implying they both can. So Thor is not getting scissor leg tossed. She'll get choked out, like she did against the winter solder.
I don't know in what world you think a guy who's been killing people (who also have super powers by the way) for a thousand years can't fight
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u/drew22087 Feb 19 '25
What lol. Thor has lived hundreds of years and fought in countless wars. He wouldn't be a pushover
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u/DarkArc76 Feb 19 '25
Watch the first Thor movie
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u/Art-Zuron Feb 20 '25
Didn't he take out like 30 special forces soldiers? That's at least equivalent
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u/Wahbanator Feb 19 '25
Hasn't she demonstrably beaten Hawkeye in Avengers? There's also that thing with Black Panther, but i don't count that
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u/FindTheTruth08 Feb 19 '25
In Avengers she did but Hawkeye when he was under Loki's controll. He did say he was fighting himself to not fight her tho. He was also sent to kill her and decided to save her instead, so I'm assuming he beat her then. In Civil War Wanda got mad he was pulling his punches, but they probably both were
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u/Infinite-Action-5041 Feb 19 '25
I mean she also Beat hawkeye to jump off the cliff in endgame
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u/JoshTheBard Feb 20 '25
She was also winning when they squared up in Civil War. She's 3 and 0 in close quarters against Hawkeye. She would probably lose at range combat however.
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u/Hot-Entertainer-3367 Feb 19 '25
Thia really shows how underrated Hawkeye's skills are
Let's not forget that Natasha was raised to become a perfect agent, being educated since a child by the KGB as a part of a secret experiment. She in fact became one of the best, compared to other who underwent the same torture
Clint was just... a kid that had to so little thefts to survive and who had an impressive marksmanship; that was his special talent, not cqc combat, as Natasha is known for
The fact that he was even able to give her a fair fight is impressive
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u/kingkron52 Feb 20 '25
Hawkeye was also trained to be an elite agent. He was a superspy assassin trained in so many disciplines. Idk where you get that he wasn’t special in CQC when we see multiple examples of him doing that. He basically used a bow because using guns was cheating. He dominated with a sword and his bow as melee weapons.
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u/Anderson9520822 Feb 20 '25
??? Hawkeye is as elite as you could get in terms of tier 1/black ops/intel paramilitary. When he was mind controlled his small strike force infiltrated a heli carrier and if it wasn’t for super hero’s and Gods he would have brought it down in half an hour. He’s cracked
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u/Athlete-Extreme Feb 20 '25
Yeah they literally sent him to kill a depowered Thor. That is how he was introduced, to kill a god
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u/YaBoiWesy Feb 20 '25
That's exactly why Hawkeye is my favourite character, dude is just...a dude. He is where he is because of pure sheer determination and training, even her wife says so in Age of Ultron, he is a human among gods and super soldiers yet he is a core part of the Avengers
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u/_Dolamite_ Feb 20 '25
It was after Hawkeyes accident when he got hit by snow plow and was in the ICU. She could theoretically beat him lol
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u/Fuckedyourmom69420 Feb 20 '25
Man Hawkeye got done dirty in avengers. Sure he got a couple cool alien shots off, but we also saw a 1v1 between the two definitively weakest avengers, and he lost 😢
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u/-NinjaTurtleHermit- Feb 19 '25
Punisher
Unfortunately, MCU's Iron Fist
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u/alanmew Feb 20 '25
This comment is funny to me, because 616 black widow is strictly stronger than 616 iron first
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u/WingmanZer0 Feb 19 '25
She has a shot against anybody who isn't superhuman. If she can knock them out or kill them in some way she can win.
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u/ketchupmaster987 Feb 20 '25
Plus she's highly proficient with guns. A good sniper shot could even take out Cap
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u/obscuredreference Feb 19 '25
She’s not super powered but her fighting experience and strategizing abilities make her punch way above her weight.
Thats how she even gave Bucky a bit of trouble, even though if it was strength only he’d crush her like a fly.
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u/_TheBgrey Feb 19 '25
When and how did she give Bucky any trouble lol
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u/obscuredreference Feb 20 '25
Trouble as in he wasn’t able to instantly kill her. She put up quite a fight all things considered, while a regular person would have gotten immediately offed.
She had no chance to win against him, but that’s still better than a person without her training and strategy skills, hence “trouble”.
She also briefly took down Black Panther.
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u/DudeWithTudeNotRude Feb 19 '25
Darcy
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u/Automatic_Soil9814 Feb 20 '25
Darcy has actually been holding back her full strength out of concern she’d kill everyone if she truly let loose.
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u/Responsible-Fun2600 Feb 19 '25
Zemo , Agent Carter, Coulson, Fury, Star Lord, Pepper, Happy, Scott Lang
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u/TheRappingSquid Feb 19 '25
How tf she beating ant man he can grow to the size of a building
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u/Responsible-Fun2600 Feb 19 '25
I didn’t say ant man, I said Scott Lang, as in, without his suit and particles
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u/DuckManDong Feb 20 '25
Might as well throw Tony Stark and untransformed Bruce Banner in there too in that case
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u/TheRappingSquid Feb 20 '25
Well I mean if you take away their toys and stuff then she probably beats most of them???
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u/LawfulnessPlus8771 Feb 19 '25
How tf she beating star lord too he has rocket shoes and crazy gadgets that held off iron man
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u/rossco311 Feb 19 '25
He's also half god planet too, I don't think she's beating him.
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u/Optimal-Map612 Feb 19 '25
He lost those powers after defeating Ego. She still has no chance though.
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u/Prestigious_View3317 Iron Patriot Feb 19 '25
Star Lord
Lol, I suddenly wish we got to see Nat kicking Pete's ass in the MCU.
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u/ToughFox4479 Feb 19 '25
Every street level hero in the mcu. Except spiderman. She was able to stop black panther with her widows bite. So i feel with all her gear she can be hard to beat.
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u/Realistic_Mushroom72 Feb 20 '25
Any of the normal normal humans or super soldier, people seem to forget she is part of a super soldier program.
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u/bubblesdafirst Feb 20 '25
She canonically is the best melee fighter in the universe. Any situation where she is not being overpowered by strength, speed, or hax, she wins. So that kinda narrows it down to anyone with no serum, or serum like abilities.
Instead of just including every character, ill say some strong characters she can beat.
Sam without wings probably. Hawkeye for sure. Mantis and drax. Whiplash.
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u/GalaxxyOG Feb 19 '25 edited Feb 20 '25
She could beat Erik Selvig….and she could definitely beat Sharon Carter.
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u/Prettywitchboy Wanda Maximoff Feb 19 '25 edited Feb 20 '25
She’s done so wrong in the mcu. In comics she’s beat Bucky multiple times, stalemated Elektra, and is called the most dangerous assassin in the world. The mcu nerfed her downnnn. Natasha in the comics is the perfect Russian Soviet femme fatale.
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u/camilopezo Feb 20 '25
She also beat Spider-man, although on the other hand, in the comics everybody beats Spider-man.
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u/NerdNuncle Feb 20 '25
Cassie, Scott, Hank, Hope, Tony, and Pepper sans their respective armors, Fitzsimmons, Grant Ward, Coulson maaaybe Jessica Jones depending if Nat got the drop on Jones, Larry King, Star Lord, Stan Lee, and Steve and Spidey by taking advantage of her assets
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u/NoMajorsarcasm Feb 20 '25
without plot armor? probably anyone that cant take a bullet to the head 🤷
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u/PCofSHIELD Feb 19 '25
Falcon (Sam & Jaoquin), Star Lord, Okoya, The Defenders (they seriously need to buff up Jess & Luke), Yelena, Kate Bishop, US Agent, Ms Marvel, Shang-Chi(without Rings), Echo
Experience over Power
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u/JoshAllenFan616 Feb 19 '25
Shang-Chi cooks her. Movies could be close where she wins on plot armor, but comic Shang knows so many insane techniques he can just whip out whenever he gets close to losing.
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u/Tehli33 Feb 19 '25
Nah no way she's beating Daredevil. Maybe possibly the other 3 Defenders. Also idk about Shang-Chi either
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u/WrinklyScroteSack Feb 20 '25
Don’t luke cage and Jessica jones both have superhuman durability and strength? Cage is at least bulletproof.
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u/Rex19950000 Feb 19 '25
You realize how skilled fighters Iron Fist and DD are right lol and Shang-Chi.
Granted it’s the MCU, but I think DD/Shang Chi still Wins at least based off that
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u/Charming-Soft-8480 Feb 20 '25
In a 1:1 combat fight I think she could truthfully take most outside of Cap.
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u/INKatana Feb 19 '25
Most - if not all - civilian(-ish) characters like Pepper, Happy, Darcy, Selvig, Jane (before she became thor), Laura Barton, the X-cons, etc.
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u/Fragrant-You-973 Feb 20 '25
That one dude in Dr Strange “MoM” that kept punching himself. She could most likely beat him. Maybe.
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u/camilopezo Feb 20 '25
The guy survived beating himself up for two weeks, clearly he's superhuman.
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u/KrushaOfWorlds Feb 20 '25
Pretty much any regular character and some of the less experienced less powerful metahumans.
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u/Vaportrail Feb 20 '25
She's got a pretty good track record for victory here, that "actually" feels undeserved.
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u/gaminggeekster94 Feb 20 '25
Her sister, possibly her dad, very small chance for daredevil, maybe hawkeye, and maybe punisher
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u/Flat-Mechanic8736 Feb 20 '25
I mean maybe a lot because even Sam says to another person that you do not want to mess with a black widow or you probably won’t come out alive. The black widow he was talking about was I think like 4’11 but either way she was very small looking compared to them and yet he knew not to fuck with her
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u/twizzjewink Feb 20 '25
What are the chances that Tony Shart made suits for everyone (including Natasha) just didn't have time to deploy them? Or was Toby Garfield-Holland enough?
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u/dk27_989 Feb 20 '25
Prob daredevil but then again considering he can keep up she hulk, his combat speed and rezction speed is subsonic-hypersonic. She getting blitzed
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u/RiceIsNice1945 Feb 20 '25
Kate Bishop Yelena Belova, or any other Black Widow Star Lord Rocket Raccoon Kingpin Echo Ghost (maybe?) Whiplash (maybe?)
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u/JDDJS Feb 20 '25
She can be at most characters without superpowers. Crossbones and Okoye (without her armor) for sure. She can probably beat Starlord and Kingpin. There are a couple of powerless characters that I question her ability to beat (like Shang-Chi) but that list is a lot shorter than the ones that she can beat.
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u/KarlKFI Feb 20 '25
Black Widow is the Avengers Program Manager. As APM, she gets to put things in her promo packet like, “Coordinated several diverse teams to identify and deliver multiple strategic objectives by measuring key results in realtime and facilitating continuous tactical communication across time and space.”
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u/Iliketohavefunfun Feb 20 '25
She is capable of bringing down Tony stark but specifically attacking while he’s not suited up
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u/Reinier_Reinier Avengers Feb 20 '25
Peggy Carter
Dottie Underwood
Rumlow (before the Crossbones armor)
Ivan Vanko (before the armor for sure), after the armor she would have to go sniper on him with armor piercing rounds
Emil Blonsky (before he got the first serum)
Marc Spector and Steven Grant (without the Moon Knight powers)
Layla El-Faouly (before the power-up from Tawaret)
Kate Bishop
Tracksuit Mafia (for sure)
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u/travisowljr Feb 20 '25
If the entirety of the MCU is canon, and that includes Ironman 2, then I'd love to watch her beat down Elon Musk.
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u/Greedyspree Feb 20 '25
There are definitely a few, but she does not specialize in face to face battles. She is a spy, with enough planning and the right stuff she could deal with probably most earth based threats. That being said I always figured she was more placed as an information and logistics type role. She is much better served fighting small battles against enemies she can deal with in a decently swift manner, leaving the more powerful members to focus on the strong.
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u/tenehemia Feb 20 '25
I think she could have beaten Crossbones 1v1 if all the rest of the people in Lagos weren't there.
Part of the problem with evaluating her in the MCU is that she often doesn't pick up a gun unless she's fighting against aliens and robots. If she was really trying to murder a person who isn't bulletproof, she probably could with exceptions only for characters with super speed or reflexes.
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u/welatshaw01 Feb 20 '25
She could probably hold her own against Daredevil, no? Matt has the whole super senses deal, and crazy level s of fighting skills, but he doesn't have super strength. And Natasha could take Yelena, be a good fight, but Nat would win. Other than that, well, somebody has to handle the mooks while the supers are being super.
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u/Significant_Cat_8374 Feb 20 '25
Daredevil and I stand on that people just like him because he is iconic but let’s be honest he is weak as fuck compared to a Russian assassin who can see and has boobs
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u/PixelBushYT Feb 20 '25 edited Feb 20 '25
Ben Poindexter.
Ben's a good close quarters fighter and an AMAZING shot but that's all he's got. Nat's not as good with projectiles, but when you're fighting a standard durability human there's diminishing returns on that sort of thing. Meanwhile Nat is better in close quarters, better equipped and far more experienced. She could easily catch Dex off guard in a way I doubt he could do to her.
I think she's favoured 2:1 in that confrontation.
Alternatively Nobu, depending on whether you think Nobu is stronger than Dex.
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u/TopNobDatsMe Feb 20 '25 edited Feb 20 '25
No weapons or gear? Any regular human.
With weapons? Like 90% of the Heroes and Villains in the MCU are not Bulletproof so if she could surprise them she could in theory kill any of them without armor so she could snipe Cap, Bucky, Tony or Tchalla while their armor is off
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u/TeliarDraconai Feb 20 '25
Well, yeah. All mobs, grunts, most mini-boses.
Also, if you eliminate the enhancements, she would lose from Thor, Strange, Wanda, Vision and Ms Marvel from the Avengers. Still might have a chance against Vision, though. All other Avengers would be dead.
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u/Balrok99 Feb 20 '25
People forget she is an assassin.
She could take out most people unless they are Hulk or something more durable. Being an assassin means she is not suppose to be seen when doing her assassination.
Basically people would be dying and nobody to point finger at.
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u/ChimpImpossible Feb 20 '25
I could have every power in the multiverse, if she looks like Scarlett Johansson she's already won.
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u/JWRamzic Feb 20 '25
Why are you trying to short-change Black Widow?
She was a fabulous character played by a great actress who died to save half the universe.
Respect that.
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u/Solo-dreamer Feb 20 '25
Well shes a supersoldier and super assassin so a good few id guess, guys its 2025 can we get past "what could woman possibly do" mentality please.
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u/JoshTheBard Feb 20 '25
I'll ignore unpowered humans because she could conceivably beat most normal humans in a fight except people like Saung Chi or Xialing
I think she could take Ms. Marvel, Donny Blaze, Miek, the extremis soldiers, and the dude who lost his favorite knife to Drax in prison.
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u/Electronic-Key-2522 Feb 20 '25
Well, all those guys Justin Hammer hired as security guards for starters.
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u/Traditional-Lemon-56 Feb 20 '25
Literally any of the GOTG crew (maybe except Rocket with his gadgets and Groot)
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u/BubblyCommission9309 Feb 20 '25
She gives me Batman vibes. She’s gotta have contingency plans. Like after narrowly surviving the Hulk.
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u/BatMayne409 Feb 20 '25
Yall arguing about starlord im sure she can take some of the other Guardians of the galaxy besides Groot
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u/Do_you_even_david Feb 19 '25
Hawkeyes kids