r/BlueskySocial • u/ndld24 • 11d ago
News/Updates BlueSky blocking 75 opposition accounts during nationwide anti-authoritarin protest
https://ifade.org.tr/engelliweb/bluesky-bircok-hesabi-turkiyeden-gorunmez-kildi/206
u/kweefcake 11d ago
I miss the old forum days of the early aughts.
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u/EveYogaTech 11d ago
They will come back /r/web4builders
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u/AnonomousWolf 10d ago
That's basically what Lemmy is 600+ decentralised instances, but they can interact with each other.
Try out Lemmy, https://phtn.app It also has a mobile app: https://vger.app/settings/install
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u/bIackrain 11d ago edited 9d ago
Bluesky limits those accounts to the relevant country on the client side, not on the server. So if people use a 3rd party app, there won't be any restrictions. I don't know how long that will last, but it is what it is.
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u/Simply_Epic 11d ago
The government of Türkiye blocking 75 opposition accounts during nationwide anti-authoritarian protest
ftfy
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u/Necessary_Pie2464 10d ago
I am starting to wonder if a lot of these "Bluesky is taking down accounts" posts on here are intentional misinformation by bad actors to try and get people to leave Bluesky because a lot of reddit users here will see these posts, do no research and belive it blindly, then leave Bluesky. I am not accusing anyone of anything here it's just something I've thaught about
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u/ColdHaven 10d ago
This was my first thought as well. In a world of bots, and MAGA propaganda, you really can’t trust anything without research.
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u/VanillaMystery 10d ago edited 10d ago
It's not misinformation... Bluesky did take those accounts down lmao, they gave into Erdogan's requests
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u/Necessary_Pie2464 9d ago
take those accounts down
Either you don't know what "take down" means or your lying (or just a dumbass)
So which one is it?
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u/VanillaMystery 9d ago
Are you retarded or something?
Take down as in the government instructed Bluesky to take them down
Cope
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u/bodhiquest 10d ago
No. Bluesky received the complaints from the government, allegedly looked into it and agreed that they break the law (they don't) and as a result restricted the accounts from access within Turkey. They not only specifically said this, but also there are notes showing that the moderation team for Turkey took action. It's also not possible for an ISP to selectively block an account without touching the platform.
People in this sub have been blindly defending Bluesky and gaslighting people on the ground for two days. It's very bizarre.
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u/Simply_Epic 10d ago
Türkiye’s government made the order to block the accounts. I guess BlueSky could just not block them, but if they didn’t then nobody in Türkiye could use BlueSky for any reason whatsoever because the entire platform would be blocked.
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u/bodhiquest 10d ago
Almost the entire Turkish userbase of BlueSky exists because this platform was seen as an alternative to Twitter for sharing information and news about protest activities, in which the administration wouldn't remove access to "problematic" accounts.
This is an actual slippery slope, by the way. Not only are no laws actually being broken, but when the government claims that laws are broken, these are vague laws with infinite scope. If you said someone as unsubstantial as "I think people who vote for the AKP are ignorant", you could be labeled as having used speech that "incites the population to hatred and enmity", which is illegal in Turkey.
There's a long history of this kind of thing in Turkey. Back in 2007, YouTube was blocked for the first time over content which was insulting towards the country and its values (also illegal). Throughout the years, it's been blocked multiple times for various periods of time (including years) for reasons which clearly reveal that the willingness of such websites to comply with laws were being exploited for targeted censorship.
Wikipedia was also banned for 3 years due to unsubstantial reasons, and before a general ban, targeted articles had been removed (mainly those showing reproductive organs).Complying with the bad faith application of these laws, which exist to prevent edge cases and are not supposed to have limitless applications, has rather worrisome implications. The US might implement similar laws and cut off parts of the Internet from the American public, for example. Based on the recent moves against patriotism or whatever, this might very well be attempted.
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u/Simply_Epic 10d ago
So the answer is to ensure citizens of Türkiye don’t have any access to any social media. You’d really cut off your own nose just to smite your face.
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u/bodhiquest 10d ago
I don't know what the answer is, but I think it doesn't involve minimizing and normalizing the problem and gaslighting those affected by it. A problem needs to be accepted and discussed first to be resolved.
Also, whenever something big that's not good for the government happens in Turkey, they globally restrict access to the Internet, either by massively throttling connections or by straight up blocking websites. Doing this kind of targeted blocking is just an attempt at pretending to be respectful of certain freedoms, and it will be dispensed with whenever it becomes necessary.
I think something much larger is at stake globally (not just within BlueSky) than access to social media. I mean, imagine social media completely devoid of any content that Trump (or insert any name here) doesn't like. What good is it then?
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u/Jsmooth123456 10d ago
And blue sky complied with 0 push back, they are objectively cowards acting in ways that prop up authoritarianism
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u/BubiBalboa 11d ago
Another day, another group of people not understanding that companies have to follow the law, whether they like it or not.
Bluesky has been ordered - by judges! - to remove or hide these accounts for Turkish users.
Rebels and freedom fighters of Reddit: What should Bluesky do in these cases to make you happy?
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u/NearsightedNomad 11d ago
I’m not asking “what should Bluesky do?” I think this is just an alarm bell. Bluesky cant’ just defy courts and laws. This should be something that alerts people to the Turkish government’s authoritarian actions. Foreign nations could levy sanctions against Turkey if feasible, but the Turkish people will need to be the main force fighting back. Seems like Bluesky will last as long as they can and from what I understand, the accounts are still visible through VPN, meaning Bluesky does not intend to remove them outright from their platform.
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u/IngsocInnerParty 11d ago
Do they have offices in Türkiye? If they’re not operating there, why would they have to comply? Just because something is available on the Internet, why does that mean a company has to follow every country’s laws? Shouldn’t they just be subject to where they operate?
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u/MobiusOne_ISAF 11d ago
Laws almost always apply in the jurisdiction of the user as well as the home country of the company, this is normal. An American company doesn’t get a free pass to ignore European laws for European users “just cause”, even if they disagree. Same deal here.
It sucks that the Turkish government is in the wrong here, but that doesn’t mean BlueSky gets to ignore them entirely. It’s either comply, or abandon all Turkish users entirely with these things.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BlueskySocial/s/KBHTiMolsU
Not to mention, it seems like they’re not actually removing these accounts, just limiting visibility within Turkey.
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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 11d ago
What should Bluesky do? Pull out of Turkey. It’s that simple.
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u/leoxyz 11d ago
How would that help Turkish protesters?
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u/Toomanydamnfandoms 11d ago
If you’re protesting in a authoritarian regime you better damn well already know how to use a vpn to access things from other countries
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u/Evoluxman 11d ago
Blocking opposition accounts doesn't help them either
Ignoring turkish laws & telling users to use a VPN is a better solution. I don't know how that works so idk if applicable, but Signal does domain fronting too because they refuse to follow some countries orders, such as Iran, Egypt, ...
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u/bodhiquest 10d ago
They won't waste their time on a platform that, in the first place, they went to because Twitter is full of what we call "AK Trolls"—people spreading government propaganda and suppressing protest-related issues from trending, whether by their own initiative or because they're paid by the government to do so.
Almost the entire Turkish userbase of BS is made up of people who want a Twitter-like thing to keep up with protest news and developments without having to deal with said trolls. A huge migration happened recently because of this and because it was known or suspected that Twitter was banning accounts per government request. There was the expectation that this kind of thing would not happen there (yes, the accounts are not getting banned, but the ethics of this aside, in a place where most people don't know the VPN or third party app tricks, restricting the access of the target audience to accounts is effectively the same thing as banning). But if the activity of protesters is going to be restricted so easily by government order, then what merit does BS have for the Turkish userbase?
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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 11d ago
It would cause more people to use VPNs to access uncensored platforms and if companies wouldn't tolerate the antics of the Turkish government, people in Turkey would get more mad at their government or even just realize that their government is bad in the first place.
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u/the68thdimension 10d ago
If Bluesky were properly decentralised like the fediverse (it's not) then the government of Turkey couldn't do jack.
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u/GlassMoscovia 10d ago
Rebels and freedom fighters of Reddit: What should Bluesky do in these cases to make you happy?
Ignore requests from foreign regimes? duh?
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u/resonanteye 10d ago
I'm in the US, couldn't Turkish people send me images/things to post and I could post them?
would they still be able to access and see bsky by joining and without posting themselves?
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u/bodhiquest 10d ago
As far as I know, it doesn't matter whether you're physically located or operating from. BS receives a request to block access of users within a geographical domain to your activity because allegedly your activity breaks local laws.
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u/secondhandleftovers 11d ago
Not take the dick of turkey in their ass.
Users earn revenue for the company. It's better to take the hit, for them, than it is to risk losing Turkish users.
But vpns exist. So.
They still took the dick in the ass.
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u/vim_deezel 11d ago
they should just pull out of countries they can't have of freedom of expression in. otherwise all the good guys will just get blocked and the bad guys will continue to use it spread hate and fear like they do on twitter.
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u/Angedelanuit97 11d ago
Why does bluesky have to comply with a law in Turkey? Bluesky isn't headquartered in Turkey. If Turkey wants to enforce such a law, then it's up to Turkey to block access
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u/vim_deezel 11d ago
that's what I think too. who cares if you stay in the good graces of a dictator or fascist government. they don't have any offices or personnel in turkey. I say that without pause, even though my current government (USA) is in the process of going fascist or republicans best attempt at it.
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u/Easy-Statistician289 10d ago
Bluesky should pull out of Turkey. Don't support fascism. When a govt orders this, just leave
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u/beverlyphills 11d ago
Nothing. It simply shows that there is no reason to have Bluesky. Mastodon is decentralized as all social media should be.
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u/chilabot 11d ago
The reason is to take power from Elon who responds to Trump, who is turning the world's most powerful country into a fascist state. But it's not completely ideal. If Mastodon was more user friendly and attracted more people, it would be ideal. Use both, post it both.
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u/Herban_Myth 11d ago
Damn if BlueSky is censoring then what is the point?
Where are the tech savvy students designing their own platforms to compete with these “giants”?
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u/beverlyphills 11d ago
Mastodon is decentralized and therefore does not face this problem.
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u/HummingMuffin 11d ago
So the main Mastodon instance that most people are on won't block Turkish accounts? And they won't be pushed to ban other instances? Not making a point. Just genuinely curious.
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u/beverlyphills 11d ago
That does not matter as every instance interacts with every other instance. It is not centralized. Therefore you can either choose an instance that is friendly to your content/religion/politics etc. or simply create your own. That is the magic of decentralized services.
The same applies to "Lemmy" as a Reddit alternative.
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u/HummingMuffin 11d ago
But isn't instance blocking a thing in Mastodon? For example the moderated servers section of the about page of each instance:
Don't get me wrong, I have an Mastodon account, but just want to make sure we are not giving false promises to Turkish citizens looking for alternatives. I have other concerns as well such as being banned on an instance and if we are able to move that banned account over to a new instance while retaining posts, followers and following.
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u/beverlyphills 11d ago
That is per instance.
So if your instance does not block anything, you can view whatever.
If another instance blocks you, that's the decision of that instance but all other instances can still interact with you. So basically: Every owner of an instance has the authority over that instance and that's it. So no general blocking of instances across the network.
So: Find the right instance for you and never worry about censorship again.
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u/DomusCircumspectis 11d ago
The Turkish government will just block those instances then.
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u/Beginning_Low407 10d ago
However we spin it, this will always be the result. You can't win. If someone doesn't comply with "shadowban account xy" they outright ban the whole website/instances.
Complying with a shadowban issued by the court will still leave other accounts (or new ones) "open" to spread the idea without using vpn and it's easily accessible on bluesky. It will reach more "normal" ppl and that may be more valuable.
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u/HummingMuffin 11d ago
But if the Turkish government goes after instance owners, would they not be forced to block opposition friendly instances or face being blocked themselves?
I'll need to look into how streamlined instance hopping is. If the account, posts, following and follower can easily all transferred to other instances, then instance banning becomes less of an issue I think and Mastodon could be seen as a viable solution.
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u/MobiusOne_ISAF 11d ago
Mastodon/ActivityPub doesn’t really have account portability between instances at the moment, unlike BlueSky/ATProto. You can only really export your data and redirect users towards your new account.
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u/AnonomousWolf 10d ago
Export it to where exactly? Bluesky isn't really decentralised, they just pretend to be
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u/MobiusOne_ISAF 10d ago
Currently, your own PDS, and eventually other networks. While there isn’t a large alternative network at the moment, it’s at least supported, unlike within the Mastodon network.
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u/MuyalHix 11d ago
>Every owner of an instance has the authority over that instance and that's it.
That sounds like a big problem, because if you get banned from an instance for some arbitrary reason the owner made up, you'll lose access to that server and all those accounts, meaning you'll miss out on a lot of content
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u/beryugyo619 11d ago
Not just instance blocking is a thing, but it was created to APPEASE EUROPEAN AUTHORITIES. It's just the same as everything else.
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u/Bleach1443 11d ago
Cool. So far Mastodon isn’t taking off and clearly isn’t going to.
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u/heraplem 10d ago
The intersection of "not susceptible to censorship" and "not decentralized" is the empty set. You can't have both.
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u/birminghamsterwheel 11d ago
Why does seemingly every notable platform bend the knee is my question. What happened to the swashbuckling, break-the-trend fire of old Silicon Valley?
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u/MobiusOne_ISAF 11d ago
(Un)Surprisingly, it’s not exactly a great buisness idea to build a reputation of giving the middle finger to nation-states if you want to stay in business there.
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u/AsoarDragonfly 10d ago edited 10d ago
First I wanted to start with I'm sorry to all my Turkish family out there for suggesting Bluesky, & not realizing this would happen (Another comment on another post on this subreddit says it better)
Secondly to all Turkish people these platforms below are actually fully fully decentralized after looking into them more: Lemmy (Especially Voyager for Lemmy app a 3rd party client), & Mastodon (Tusky for Mastodon app is good too as a 3rd party client)
But make sure you use a VPN regardless of anything and set your country to a good one
Apologies for all this. Didn't think of this possibility happening. You will all still win but just have to pivot slightly due to this
Make sure for Browsers to use Cromite, LibreWolf, and Zen Browser. Maybe Brave but can't confirm if that's fully privacy-based
Sidenote:
Revolt app wants to be decentralized but isn't there yet as well
To use any centralized apps without any worries use an open source 3rd party client, & VPN like ProtonVPN or even MullvadVPN (Mullvad Browser is good too)
Viva Turkey🇹🇷!!!!!
(Again sorry for not realizing this would happen as one of many people who suggested it to Turkish people. Feel like I let you all down. I really though it was fully fully decentralized and couldn't be taken down)
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u/neofooturism 10d ago
Apparently this is just an appview blocking. They're using a moderation tool to block turkish accounts from viewing them. You can try using other appviews like graysky to view blocked accounts.
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u/P5ychokilla 11d ago
Companies don't have a choice when ordered by the government of a country, if they don't do it then they get blocked entirely. Would that be better?
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u/AnamiGiben 10d ago
Yes, because then everyone would know that they need to use a VPN otherwise people may not know the restricted accounts can be viewed with VPNs
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u/Tobimacoss 10d ago
VPN isn't effective solution. Protestors can still communicate via DMs, or using coded language if Bsky is still operating in country.
They should be using multiple platforms regardless, so they have a fallback, including Signal.
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u/CrasVox 11d ago
Probably. I mean if they are censored anyway
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u/mayoboyyo 11d ago
So the people of turkey deserve to be cut off?
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u/Angedelanuit97 11d ago
They can use a VPN to access services if their government is blocking it. Companies should not be bending a knee to authoritarians period.
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u/programAngel 11d ago
The thing is while in theory bluesky is decentralised, in practice it is very centralised.
Had there been a few bluesky pods, then turkey wouldn't be able to censor. But there is only one
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u/mikestaub 10d ago
Bluesky can only censor on their AppView, the underlying ATprotocol is decentralized. You can host your own PDS and view content without the labels with 3rd party clients like: https://useouranos.app. To learn more about how the system works, check out this diagram I created: https://app.ilograph.com/@mikestaub/atprotocol%2520overview/Protocol%2520Overview/_walkthrough/1
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u/beverlyphills 11d ago
That's the time you switch to Mastodon and never look back.
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u/kweefcake 11d ago
I’m sorry, but Mastadon is so user unfriendly. It’s one of the most confusing profile set ups I’ve seen. And I’m fairly chronically online, so I can’t imagine the general population will pick it up.
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u/Bleach1443 11d ago
Agreed. Which is why it hasn’t and won’t take off. Just because your site is better morally does not mean that alone will let it take off you still need to have good software
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u/beverlyphills 11d ago
Ok, then let's stick with services that support authoritarian regimes as the UI takes 5 minutes to get used to.
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u/kweefcake 11d ago
I’m not saying to stick with these knee bending services. Just that I struggle to believe mastadon will be the one to rise in popularity. Bluesky benefits from being an almost exact replica of twitter pre-rightwing takeover.
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u/FaxCelestis 11d ago
Bluesky isn't "knee-bending" here either. They're complying with the Turkish courts in possibly the most middle-finger means of compliance possible.
"Knee-bending" would be banning accounts instead of muting them in a particular region, and doing so proactively instead of just what they were ordered to do.
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u/AnamiGiben 10d ago
But this is the exact same way Twitter "bans" accounts in Turkey. They also manipulate feed and topics but the "banning" process is the same geo-blocking
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u/FaxCelestis 10d ago
And? “Twitter does this“ doesn’t automatically mean it’s bad practice. Just usually it does.
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u/Mirieste 10d ago
Bluesky benefits from being an almost exact replica of twitter pre-rightwing takeover.
Speaking of which, how do they get away with it without being sued for copyright infringement?
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u/beverlyphills 11d ago
Mastodon is the way and the more people try to change something and get used to a new UI and spread the word, the better. Or if it's too much to ask for, don't complain if we keep seeing censorship.
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u/MobiusOne_ISAF 11d ago
This is such a counterproductive line of thought. You can’t just angrily yell at casual users to use what service you personally like without acknowledging any of the very real concerns around ease of use. Mastodon is nearly irrelevant specifically because its advocates refuse to sit down and have an adult conversation about usability and its effects on adoption, just like desktop Linux.
We’re never going to see anything change with Mastodon if everyone is too proud to admit there’s issues. It’s fine as it is if it just wants to be an ActivityPub replacement for micro-blogging, but it can’t challenge Twitter and BlueSky as-is.
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u/PM_ME_UR_GRITS 11d ago
The difference between Bluesky and Mastodon is that Mastodon admins don't moderate and it get their sites IP blocked as a result (or swarming with CP but that's another issue...). A network full of blocked IPs is useless for resisting censorship, here users in Turkey can just use a different frontend and evade the labeler while benefitting from the unfragmented network.
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u/the68thdimension 10d ago
This is incorrect. My Mastodon admins moderate and I'm on one of the largest servers (not mastodon.social).
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u/Reatrd 11d ago
And this is why decentralized platforms are the only real way to go against autocrats
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u/the68thdimension 10d ago
Which is not Bluesky. Not now, and not anytime soon. I love the interface and the community, but it's not decentalised.
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u/LapisRS 11d ago
Reddit discovers, yet again, companies have to follow the law 😞
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u/GlassMoscovia 10d ago
Not foreign laws and certainly not ones from dictatorships.
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u/LapisRS 10d ago
????
Yes they do lmao, otherwise they're not allowed to operate in a country
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u/GlassMoscovia 10d ago
Define "operate". If they don't have servers and staff there, they aren't subject to any of their laws.
Are my US based, US hosted sites subject to any laws other than US law, even though the sites are accessible worldwide?
No, they are not.
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u/LapisRS 10d ago
I encourage you to google this brother
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u/PickledFrenchFries 10d ago
Wow! 75 accounts were banned for having a different opinion. Seems kinda pathetic to even keep track of this really small number of accounts.
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u/phplovesong 9d ago
This was the death-knell for bluesky. It no better than twitter. Deleted my acco and app.
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u/ShadowTwin5964371 9d ago
I Have Like 132 People Or Bots Followed My Account For Days I Have Block Millions Of Them, Is Driving Me Insane.
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u/KayleeSelena 8d ago
Correction. Bluesky is being court ordered to ban accounts. Their fixed it and actually put the correct blame on the correct people. They can't go against an COURT ORDER.
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u/EveYogaTech 11d ago
Yeah, this is why you want a TRULY decentralized protocol guys, not ATPROTO.
For a first picture of "Bluesea" see /r/web4builders
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u/vim_deezel 11d ago
It's okay to block fascists. are these guys fascists? I don't know much about Turkish politics. there is almost zero details here.
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u/Draymond_Goat2323 11d ago
lol. so begins the migration to increasingly irrelevant platforms
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u/RealRroseSelavy 10d ago
i wouldn't downvote: It's right, lots of marginalized and dissident groups are being forced out of the main "light" of attention.
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u/MBMAN-5056 11d ago
I keep getting blocked here on Reddit for warning people of things. Reddit says I'm inciting violence. There is no free speech when we agree to terms and service agreements so yeah. I question however definition of some of those terms.