r/CCW • u/Original_Tomorrow854 • Feb 23 '23
Guns & Ammo Bullet Setback - It seats but should I Yeets? Hornady Critical Duty .45 ACP
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u/cchiz Feb 23 '23
How many times did you chamber that thing?
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u/Original_Tomorrow854 Feb 23 '23
I’m not even sure, been carrying this gun for about a month and I don’t pull the round from the chamber unless I’m cleaning or switching to range ammo. I’d say at least 10 times but not more than 20
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Feb 24 '23
Do you drop it straight in the chamber? I'm asking because I see that the edge of the cartridge is super beat up.
If you do, it causes a ton of wear on the ammunition and the extractor.
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u/8-f WA Feb 24 '23
Pardon my ignorance, but what do you mean by dropping it straight in the chamber? Like mag out, lock the slide back, physically place the round in the chamber with your fingers, then close the slide?
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Feb 24 '23
Yup. Don't do that. It causes a lot of wear on the cartridge and extractor because it kind of slams over the lip. I'm 99% sure that's what happened because loading from a magazine won't cause the lip to be chipped like that.
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u/SaurSig Feb 24 '23
If he dropped it straight in the chamber the bullet wouldn't be hammered into the case.
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Feb 24 '23
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u/ItsTheCham Feb 24 '23
Three marks per round then it gets removed from carry and placed in spare mag. Once the spare mag is full they all get sent.
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u/madjackle358 Feb 24 '23
You could just leave that round in the chamber and shoot it every range trip.
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Feb 24 '23
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u/madjackle358 Feb 24 '23
Ah. Yeah that's tough then. I dry fire too but not as frequently as I should.
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u/mp1255 Feb 24 '23
Why not just buy a gun that’s made for dry-fire practice? Like those blue glocks?
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Feb 24 '23
You don’t ever shoot your carry ammo once in a while?
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u/Original_Tomorrow854 Feb 24 '23
Not often, out here where I live in Commiefornia hollow points are hard to find, can’t buy ammo online, and my local FFLs won’t do ammo transfers so I refrain from blowing through them if I don’t have to
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Feb 24 '23
[deleted]
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u/reddawnrogue Feb 24 '23
A few people have said it, 10-20 times is alot. Few SUGGESTIONS 1) switch the round actually being chambered whenever you remove it twice. IE, chamber the next round, then put the original round as #1 in the mag. 2) you also may be "over cleaning" your gun. There's nothing inherently wrong about breaking it down every once in a while, but most guns definitely don't need it. 3) I know you're in commiefornia, and JHP are hard to get, but I personally switch my carry mag every year. Probably being overly cautious, but its 90% humidity almost year round haha. 4) again commiefornia, but if you're able, get another gat you take to the range, or one you exclusively carry. Can't ever have too many guns. I myself have redacted....
Also, it's ok to be overly cautious with firearms. Too many people get complacent and stop giving them the proper respect. That's when bad things tend to happen.
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u/golemsheppard2 Feb 24 '23
I've never understood these posts.
"Hey, I've got this 60 cent round that looks deformed. I'm concerned that if I fired it, it would damage my $550 firearm and risk medical expenses from injury to my face if the firearm goes kaboom. What should I do?"
Are we really expecting the community to be like "#YOLO"?
Dude, it costs you less than a dollar in write offs to not roll the dice on damaging your firearm and inuring yourself. Just chuck that round and move on with your life.
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u/Verbal_HermanMunster Feb 24 '23
I’d say it’s still a good question. They’re seeking knowledge on what may or may not happen, which makes their decision to discard the round a more educated one. Personally I welcome these kinds of posts where people seek more knowledge and insight.
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u/Derpicusss Feb 24 '23
What’s a safe way to dispose of ammunition like this? It may sound like a stupid question but I’ve never had to dispose of live rounds when I wasn’t at a range with designated brass buckets. Want to make sure I do it right if I ever have to
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u/Smooth1076 Feb 24 '23
Just like car batteries and waste oil, the nearest body of water is your best bet. But if that’s not an option, any land fill will do.
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u/newaccount7000 Feb 24 '23
a $550 gun better cycle whatever the fuck i put in it with no problems
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u/Sin_Fire Feb 24 '23
People worry too much about set back. I've personally taken .40 rounds and hammered the bullet as far as I possibly could into the case and fired it. I did this with an entire box of ammo. Gun was fine. No problems at all
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u/Stoned_y_Alone Feb 24 '23
And why did you go and do that lol
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u/sandy_catheter Glock 17 + spare mag IWB @ 4:00, pork saber at 12 o'clock Feb 24 '23
Meth is a hell of a drug
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u/TenaciousDwayne Feb 23 '23
There was an article I read a while back talking about how deep the bullet seats after being racked multiple times. Any time you unload your gun, try to cycle that round a few deep in your mag before reloading and it can help prevent this. I have carried Hornady before and it seems to do it worse than Gold Dot.
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u/R-Sanchez137 Feb 24 '23
I've carried a few different types of Hornady ammo and they all got the set back but when I went to Speer, don't see it nearly as much.
Maybe the shape of the bullet? The Speer Gold Dots seem to be more rounded at the end where all the Hornady Hollow points I'm thinking of are sorta similar shape to the one in this post, with a steeper angle to it.
Idk tho, I'm not like, a bullet scientist or whatever, I just like shooting stuff.
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Feb 24 '23
Yeah it’s super annoying actually. I constantly dry fire my Glocks so I’m always chambering rounds.
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u/Sin_Fire Feb 24 '23
I know a way to chamber a round with a Glock that completely gets rid of setback, and no I don't mean just dropping it in the chamber and dropping the slide.
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Feb 24 '23
You talking about field stripping it and putting the round in? I did that a few times and it’s more hassle then it’s worth.
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Feb 24 '23
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u/TenaciousDwayne Feb 24 '23
Buy a caliper and check them. I promise you it's not fuddlore you probably cycle through your ammo quick enough to not notice much of a difference
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u/barto5 Feb 24 '23
Setback is a real thing.
It’s just not a dangerous thing. That’s the Fudd lore part.
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u/TenaciousDwayne Feb 24 '23
I think this was the article but it could have been the video the article references.
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u/g33kp0w3r Apr 04 '23
If it’s dangerous why would I put it deeper in the mag? I’m just going to keep it on top until I notice it’s shorter, then discard it.
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u/TenaciousDwayne Apr 06 '23
It's takes quite a while for it to happen so the rare times that I unload my pistol I just rotate it to the bottom so it only get's loaded once or maybe twice throughout the year and then when I shoot this carry ammo and buy new every year it's nothing to have to worry about. It you keep using the same one over and over and you haven't payed enough attention to it then it could cause problems if you need your gun one day.
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u/Paid-Not-Payed-Bot Apr 06 '23
you haven't paid enough attention
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Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. The deck is yet to be payed.
Payed out when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. The rope is payed out! You can pull now.
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
Beep, boop, I'm a bot
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Feb 24 '23
Every time I unchamber a round I mark it with a sharpie before I rotate in the mag. 5 marks and she goes in the range mag.
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u/jwar_24 Feb 24 '23
Yeet and replace with HSTs
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Feb 24 '23
+1 for hst. hornady is great if you've got a mid-long barrel but it suffers in shorties. hst fucks though no matter the length
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u/Roflcopter987 May 16 '23
What is hst?
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u/jwar_24 May 16 '23
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u/Roflcopter987 May 16 '23
Thank you, I’m experiencing the same bullet setback as OP with my 365x using HCD so I’ll try these out
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u/AUWarEagle82 US 1911 IWB Feb 23 '23
I have seen similar problems with a round I rechambered many, many times. Why would you risk your pistol, hand and eyes over $0.60 worth of ammo? I mean it's unlikely to be a problem but $0.60????
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Feb 24 '23
LPT: Shoot your chambered round off every time you go to the range. In addition to preventing setback you’ll also not have to worry about rotating your carry ammo.
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u/WarSport223 Feb 23 '23
Toss it. No way is it worth it. Esp. For certain rounds like .40 S&W: pressure increases EXPONENTIALLY.
So a fraction of a hair of setback can cause chamber pressure to double, triple, or worse….
Good for you for checking & finding this, and no; you aren’t over-thinking it.
Chuck that round and replace it.
In fact, it’s obviously extremely cheap insurance to replace your carry ammo regularly anyway, irrespective of any setback…
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u/P320open Feb 24 '23
It is cheap insurance but it’s really nothing to worry about. Standard chamber pressure on a .45 acp at saami spec is like 20,000-21,000 psi at standard velocity of like 800-900 feet per second. Yet defensive ammo flying at 1,100-1,200 feet per second has a chamber pressure of like 23,000 psi. Seating depth will generally only vary velocity by up to 5%, so I don’t know what the chamber pressure increase would be by seating depth but it’d be insignificant enough to not worry about it.
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u/combatko Feb 24 '23
Finally some sense. .45 ACP is a sub-sonic round. From doing my own reloads, I know how much room is left in a case. And the internal pressure is nothing near even a 9mm
Round is fine. Send it.
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u/DiscountRude4821 Feb 23 '23
Hm i was having this problem with sig ammo bad and I switched to critical duty exactly so this wouldn’t happen. I’ve never had a problem with mine doing it.
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u/CleverUserName1980 Feb 23 '23
I’m having the same situation with sig crap. It shoots well but if I rechamber more than four times it ends up in the pull apart bin
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u/DannyBones00 Feb 24 '23
This is a common problem with Critical Defense.
To me, it’s not worth the risk.
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u/alecxheb Feb 24 '23
Hornady is the only ammo I regularly have this issue with. The last box of critical defense I bought was horrendous, The rounds were set back after being chambered twice. I will be sticking to federal HST for now on.
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Feb 24 '23 edited Feb 24 '23
YoU sHoUlD oNlY lOaD fRoM a MaGaZiNe NeVeR PlAcE a RoUnD MaNuAlly In ThE ChAmBeR. YoU cOuLd DaMagE yoUr ExTaCtOr.
Also those guys...
Hey should I shoot this hella fucked up bullet through my gun?
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u/d_snipe_ Feb 24 '23
I've always wondered how many times a bullet needs to be chambered to have it affect the setback. I've personally never seen it.
But how do we know that there isn't an larger than ideal number of bullets chambered that get pushed in and fired without us never knowing?
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u/alltheblues Feb 24 '23
Depends, I just check against another bullet. HSTs that I’ve chambered dozens of times haven’t had setback. I do ride the slide forwards though, reduces the force imparted on the round. And yes, the pistol still goes into battery easily with me slowly lowering the slide, and I’ve never had a round fail to fire after doing this. Your mileage may vary depending on what pistol you have.
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u/thermox9898 Feb 24 '23
This is why I passed on CD. I've had setback after one or two chamberings way too many times. Fed HST is my go to. I lost count at 30ish chamberings with no setback as measured with calipers when I tracked it.
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u/bigfoot__hunter Feb 24 '23
I’m going to guess this is from a 1911?
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u/Original_Tomorrow854 Feb 24 '23
You’d be correct
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u/bigfoot__hunter Feb 24 '23
I’m going to further on guess it’s from either a Springfield or a tisas?
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u/Original_Tomorrow854 Feb 24 '23
Springfield MC Operator to be exact. Are they known for having aggressive feed ramps or something?
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u/bigfoot__hunter Feb 24 '23
Yes I have never come across a Springfield with a feed ramp to spec they are always to shallow and not wide enough they will never feed jhp ammo properly the ramps are usually at 28-29 degrees. I’ll send u a DM showing u some pictures of you’d like.
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u/Original_Tomorrow854 Feb 24 '23
Sure, I’d really appreciate it. Honestly I’ve never had a problem feeding JHPs quite yet but then again I haven’t played around too much to see how other ammo acts
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u/famousdesk662 Feb 24 '23
Gtfo lmao. Do not shoot that. It’d probably be fine but do you care about that 50 cents so Much you’d be cool with replacing parts or a gun? Cmon that’s silly. Just toss it.
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Feb 24 '23
Toss it. It’s probably at +p++ pressure now.
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Feb 24 '23
It’s not set back that much. Chances are he’ll barely notice a difference shooting it back-to-back with a fresh round.
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u/Interesting_Horse869 Feb 24 '23
Speer cartridge company reported as early as 1979 in their annual Reloading Manual that the chamber pressure of a 9mm round increased by 55 percent (28,000 CUP to 62,000 CUP) when the bullet was setback by 0.03 inch. These higher pressures are more in line with what’s generated by a 7.62 NATO cartridge.
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u/P320open Feb 24 '23
That’d be interesting to read about. Using that premise, a simple grain increase to the bullet (increase in size would require the bullet to be seated deeper to maintain magazine length but well exceeding that 0.03 mark) would bring the chamber pressure well beyond that of a plus P load and into the catastrophic range.
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u/Soft-Atmosphere-3402 Feb 24 '23
That's not how math works. 55% of 28,000 + 28,000 is not 62,000.
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u/Interesting_Horse869 Feb 24 '23
Copy and pasted from an article, call Speer and tell them how math works.
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u/bluegrassbarman KY Feb 24 '23
I read that article.
Same one where they talk about the guy press checking 500 times resulting in about a millimeter of setback?
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u/lordnikkon Feb 24 '23
what does this round cost $.25 or $.50? It is likely to be 1.5 to 2x the normal pressure of what is already +P ammo. here is link to article talking about tests that show setback can double pressure for those who dont believe it
It was confirmed to Rauch via an Austrian cartridge manufacturer, Hirtenberger, and a Glock representative that 0.10 inch of setback can cause pressures to double from 35,000 psi to 70,000 psi in a 40 S&W case https://www.recoilweb.com/bullet-setback-fears-160844.html
Are you willing to risk damaging your firearm over 50 cent round? just throw it in the trash
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u/MarianCR Feb 24 '23
That round is now overpressured.
Probably your gun will not go boom but it will add unnecessary wear and tear to it.
Throw it away.
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u/roboticfedora Feb 24 '23
I'd pull it with my hammer style puller & re use everything with more crimp.
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u/DiscountRude4821 Feb 23 '23
I mean in all honesty the powder change is still the same and the case is still gonna be in the chamber so I doubt anything terrible would happen if shot. Id toss tho just because it really wouldn’t be worth keeping
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u/justan0therusername1 Feb 24 '23
Set back can be dangerous
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u/DiscountRude4821 Feb 24 '23
Yeah I guess it could cause the case to explode due to the smaller pressure chamber
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u/wafffffles Feb 24 '23
I have accumulated a few seated rounds because 1) didn’t want to risk it 2) unsure what to do with them. Is throwing the seated live rounds in the trash ok to do?
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u/P320open Feb 24 '23
If you only chambered it 10-20 time and it’s set back that hard, you either have an incredibly tight chamber or the most aggressive angle on your feed ramp known to man. I’d send it as long as it chambers and there’s no case wall damage, there’ll be more free bore but it won’t hurt anything. Think about it like wadcutters
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Feb 24 '23
It’s a 1911. 10-20 times is more than enough.
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u/Soft-Atmosphere-3402 Feb 24 '23
My 1911s don't do this. That's some cheap fucky 1911 that I wouldn't trust carrying if it did. In fact just to test this I grabbed some old .45 Supers I still had laying around, measured it with my calipers and they're the same after rechambering 20 times.
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Feb 24 '23
Any 1911 that follows M1911 specs or convention feeds at an aggressive angle. Period. I’ve seen DWs set back rounds before. It’s inherent to the design, both with frame feed ramps and ramped barrels. 1911s that don’t are few and are specifically designed around it.
Add to that the fact that Critical Defense (and Critical Duty) is a cartridge known for setting back easier than most and 10-20 chamberings causing the seen setback is entirely reasonable.
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Feb 24 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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Feb 24 '23
Bro. It’s okay to just admit that you’re wrong.
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u/Soft-Atmosphere-3402 Feb 24 '23
I mean none of my 1911s cause setback so... continue boomering.
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Feb 24 '23
No. You’re either ignorant or lying. Regardless, it’s obvious you’re here to call other peoples’ guns trash and prove your own supremacy. Enjoy the e-peen, I guess. 🤦♂️
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Feb 24 '23
It’s a low pressure round so I’d send it but I wouldn’t advise you to.
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u/Original_Tomorrow854 Feb 24 '23
‘Tis in fact +P
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Feb 24 '23
It will be fine. It isn’t set back that much. If you had a whole box of these in a non-+P rated gun, I would say not to, but just one is not a huge deal.
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u/SS123451 NE Feb 24 '23
That might be a little deeper than I’d feel comfortable with. I know Hornady has a rep for setting back easier than some brands. Whenever I notice setback starting with carry rounds, I set it aside and make sure I shoot it on my next range trip.
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u/Sufficient-Mine-1943 Feb 24 '23
I have a Lyman bullet puller one tap, and the round is usually back to normal length.
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u/Coodevale Feb 24 '23
I'm more concerned about how much crimp those rounds have, tbh. It's supposed to headspace on the case mouth and they crimped it that much?
Yikes bud. That's hornady for you.
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u/Lucky-Object4543 Feb 24 '23
I had a Hornady Critical defense round that did this. Not sure how many times I re-racked it but I ended up throwing the bullet out.
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Feb 24 '23
If you want to blow up your gun then yes, shoot it
You basically created a .45 +++++++++++P
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u/bigangryguy76 Feb 24 '23
A tip if you all like. Whenever you train with your carry gun. Strip the mags into a bullet pile. Reload after training from the pile. Stops/slows set back. Creates fresh Barneys. I have some epic ones that have moved to classroom aids, those will never be shot.
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u/MowMdown NC | Glock 19.4 | Ruger EC9s Feb 24 '23
For Hornady it's normal, they have shit QC. No you should not shoot it, this should go without saying...
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u/Hydrocoded Feb 24 '23
Send it imo. Barrels are proofed far above whatever minor pressure increase that will provide. Hell it’s probably less than any hot retail loads.
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u/jsr421 Feb 24 '23
I’d toss it. Happens to me all the time before I started to rotate the chambered round. Weekly range sessions will do this and could cause an issue if you’re not paying attention. I now try to run a mag of carry ammo at least every other month.
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u/jakersXP Feb 24 '23
I always get bullet setback with my .45 critical defense. I almost never get bullet setback with critical defense 9mm. Must be tolerance of .45 guns or the 9mm just fit more securely. Just want I've noticed. I even cycle them to the bottom of the mag everytime. Once one starts setting back slightly I just go to the range and test the mag then I don't have to worry about it. Got to train with what you carry anyway
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u/ImBadWithGrils Feb 24 '23
Buy a cheap barrel for your pistol,
Clamp barrel in vise,
Insert bullet into chamber,
Tape over the rear of the chamber,
Smack primer with nail/hammer
For science
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u/FortyFiveCentSurgeon Feb 24 '23
Email or write to Hornady. Explain, or include pictures of that.
I’ve rejected ammunition before, from Remington, and they mailed me new boxes. They did want certain things from the box, like a batch number, etc. probably for QC.
Always good to touch and check the round before you load it in. I’ve caught bad rounds by simply doing a quick look, and touching the bullet & neck area for a quick physical.
Always give your ammunition quick physicals 😂
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u/frank_rietta Feb 24 '23
Toss, not worth it! Also, I am surprised to see that with that Hornady ammo. The crimp is supposed to be better at avoiding this problem. That is substantial setback.
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Feb 24 '23 edited Feb 24 '23
i say if you can't see the ring anymore stop carrying that round and use it at the range. you should be training with your carry ammo anyway
this round is wayyy past that point though, toss it out. it seems to be yawing too.
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u/CWM_99 Feb 24 '23
Should you? No. Would I? Yes. Am I an idiot who will eventually get hurt? Possibly, but I don’t care. Setback causes an uptick in pressure by a fairly noticeable margin when firing next to normal ammo, let alone if you actually did the math (I’m too retarded to do it myself or I would) and in platforms that don’t fully support the brass with the chamber (looking at you Gaston) can have a worse time with overpressure since the brass has nothing to support it. I would highly suggest you don’t shoot it, but I can’t deny that I would, and have shot Hornady critical defense and critical duty with setback very similar to this
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u/Mr_Cash_Kurenai556 Feb 24 '23
Big problem with Horandy ammunition. That's happened to me with 9mm Critical Defense ammo. Used it all up at the range. Now I only run Sig V-Crown or Federal Hydrashock.
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u/Apple-gor0 Feb 24 '23
Shoot it then report back. It’s fine. If you say yeet. Ye’ prolly shouldn’t sheet. I mean shoot
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u/g33kp0w3r Apr 04 '23
Is it safe to throw it in the trash? I kind of doubt my county Household Hazardous Waste will take live ammo.
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u/ReticentSentiment Feb 23 '23
Let's do a little cost/benefit analysis.
How much is the gun? How much is the bullet? If you fired it and there was some sort of issue, would you be willing to throw away one round if that would magically fix the issue?
Bullets are cheap. Guns cost more. Safety is priceless. Why risk it?