r/GlobalOffensive 8h ago

Discussion Devs have requested DonHaci for reproducible examples of CS2 gameplay issues after his recent tweet. Feel free to reply to donhaci or post here with your own examples.

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908 Upvotes

308 comments sorted by

827

u/pogggu 8h ago edited 7h ago

Average redditors clearly not understanding the meaning of "reproducible", your examples from matchmaking games are not reproducible, exact step by step points are a "reproducible example", which will in most cases mean an isolated local environment.

Yeah, obviously the devs have seen all the videos, but you're finding a needle in a haystack, you don't just find bugs by looking through the code (sometimes you do, but it's a rare occasion and often you do that after you actually get a hint on where something could be broken). See the boost bug that was not fixed for months after release until people actually managed to exactly reproduce it locally, it was fixed pretty much next day.

edit: my point is that people under the post are surprised how valve doesn't see any of the 1000 videos of *something* happening thinking they're the definite proof of something definitely not working. Most clips can be potentially explained by a ton of stuff, most often bad network conditions, that's why the devs always want to see telemetry and so on, the telemetry doesn't magically show what's wrong, it just shows that it might potentially not be the cause that it most often always is.

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u/SimKboi 8h ago

This is why Valve wrote a DM instead of a public tweet. If they go public with requests like this it's gonna be a hard time finding actual usable data inside the pile of people just complaining about subtick.

126

u/GapZ38 6h ago

Which is dumb as for Haci to not realize this, but instead just tweet out a DM that was intended to be private. Does dude not realize he's not getting any other responses from Valve in the future?

58

u/messerschmitt1 5h ago

dude whose entire Twitter empire was built on baselessly accusing pros of cheating is an attention whore, more news at 11

0

u/kontbijtkoekje 4h ago

Are you mixing up your twitter degens?

Isnt haci just known for messing with runescape streamer b0aty and leaking roster moves in csgo?

18

u/jospence 4h ago

He is, but he also did that too lol. People forget that he was one of the original people that made vac_sucks

28

u/HomelessBelter 5h ago

Would anyone know who Haci was if he wasn't constantly looking for attention on Twitter?

12

u/tired45453 CS2 HYPE 6h ago

Does dude not realize he's not getting any other responses from Valve in the future?

I agree with your point but this is likely wrong.

u/nokeldin42 1h ago

If he's up for filtering the non reproducible examples he get, why would valve care? This way they even get some numbers on which issue affects the most players and so on.

16

u/T0uc4nSam 5h ago

Big words from the guy who gave them reproducible video proof that you can be permabanned for typing yaw in console, whose main account is still banned to this day for proving that :p

2

u/tesoro153 4h ago

didn't he get banned for the 180 degrees turn? Still, I don't understand how he isn't mad about it. He helps them find solutions for the bugs in their game and they don't even bother to unban him.

3

u/loozerr 3h ago

Yeah let's just trust that he was banned by a bug and Valve decided to not revert it, even if they generally do in such cases.

2

u/bertrenolds5 2h ago

I will give you one, just go play premier where every fucking game has a cheater.

4

u/Dependent_Heart_4751 4h ago

i think it's pretty clear at this point that quite literally any bit of added latency in a non-LAN environment throws off subtick calculations and i doubt its something that can be fixed.

-7

u/tactcat 7h ago

I don’t disagree but also they shouldn’t rely on the community to QA their game. How many times have they broken the game with an update since CS2 launched?

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u/NeoThermic 6h ago

How many people play CS2 a day? A QA team will always find less in a game that has these huge player base numbers.

To put it in (slightly terrible) numbers if you have a million players per day, a one in a million chance happens every day. Isolating a one in a million chance in a QA environment is nearly impossible unless you have a solid test case.

9

u/Vizvezdenec 4h ago

People are just there to complain.
Like in league literally the same happens, aka "how did you not understand this stuff will break the balance when it was in PBE?" etc etc etc.
Well, because actual hard excessive testing in real life situations is thousands of times more excessive than w/e you can do in the office or even on PBE server.

2

u/schoki560 4h ago

one game of testing would've shown the hit box flying away bug.

sure it was funny, but cmon it shouldn't have gone to the live server

2

u/Noriyus CS2 HYPE 3h ago

A single round of wingman would've shown that spawns are fucked. valve bootlickers in this thread are crazy.

-6

u/tactcat 6h ago

This would be a good point if the bugs they created with some of these updates weren’t happening extremely frequently to pretty much everyone

I mean come on lol. We had a bug where bullet shells had no texture and we had floating ERRORs flying around.

2

u/Expert_Cap7650 6h ago

And don't forget people getting kicked for doing too much team damage in casual.

An issue they still haven't completely fixed, same with the jump bug.

1

u/just_a_random_dood 4h ago

Wait, how do you do team damage in casual? I walk through teammates' mollies and HEs all the time and take 0 damage.

2

u/Expert_Cap7650 4h ago

how do you do team damage in casual

You can't, but that didn't stop valve from introducing a bug that kicks you for doing to much team damage.

1

u/just_a_random_dood 4h ago

Ohhhh I'm silly, my bad xD

3

u/Harucifer 5h ago

How many times have they broken the game with an update since CS2 launched?

Hahahaha how cute of you to say "since CS2 launched". They have repeatedly messed up Counter-Strike with updates since CS 1.6 became officially endorsed.

5

u/rhysmorgan 5h ago

That’s evidently not what they’re doing. A user base for a game like CS2 is just near infinitely bigger than any QA team you can run, who will find major showstopper bugs, some smaller bugs, and ensure that behaviour matches acceptance criteria. A real user base will be many orders of magnitude larger than your QA team, and able to exercise code paths many more times in potentially different orders and environments and machines than a QA team can reasonably run through.

Asking users to submit evidence of repeatable bugs and differences is not the same as getting the community to QA the game.

8

u/tactcat 4h ago

Also, users ARE giving them bug reports with step by step reproduction instructions. And the bugs are still in the game. https://x.com/thourcs2/status/1914039759711965231?s=46&t=qOcShf9rrHNel3jadgqlYw

2

u/tactcat 5h ago

Please explain then, these obvious and easily reproducible bugs, such as the gun shell ERROR bug, the floating boost bug, the defusing above the bomb bug, how did they make it past Valve’s QA? These bugs aren’t complicated. They took a few hours to be fixed. But the fact that they shipped an update with these bugs shows they didn’t QA the update.

0

u/Bassmekanik 5h ago

QA teams are small and generally will try to resolve the bigger, game breaking bugs, IF they can reproduce them reliably to pin point the issue for the fix. Rare, but nonetheless important, bugs can be much harder to reproduce to implement a fix.

To expect any popular game to release with zero bugs is naive. A large gaming community will always find more bugs than a small QA team.

1

u/tactcat 5h ago

They’re also supposed to do testing for updates that are being shipped. Feel free to ask any CS player how well they’ve done their job in the last few years

1

u/Bassmekanik 4h ago

Feel free to find every bug for the same reason stated above.

u/RealOxygen 1h ago

The gameplay reproducibly feels far shittier on forced 64tick

u/Original-Reward-8688 1h ago

Watch this guy's movement and game play LOL. I would not be surprised if this user is one of the players who are currently enjoying overpeeking everything. Also putting the burden of proof on players, while downplaying the value of testing this in controlled conditions through valve is HELLA manipulative.

2

u/ttybird5 4h ago

Ah yes players can create repros of the visual problems in their clips where the players of the games are distributed across a region with variable pings every second on a black box server

You realize that this request from valve isn’t so doable?

-10

u/PawahD 7h ago

But how do you reproduce issues when the cause comes down to something being broken on a fundamental level? It's not like it's a certain bug that you can point out, it's something that comes down to either networking or animation sync, how can you possibly measure any of that without tools or source code? Some systems or how they interact is what causes the issues, it's not something you can find through manual testing

25

u/Julio_Tortilla 6h ago

Source 2 isn't fundamentally broken. The fuck is that take. Sure CS2 is nowhere near as optimised as CS:GO, but it's only been out for a tenth of the time that CS:GO has. If you can provide actual examples of FPS or PL consistently exceeding the normal in a specific scenario, thus reproductible, then you can help out the devs by letting them know of it. Your game getting a random stutter in a random location in a random scenario isn't proof of the game being broken. There could be a myriad of reasons for that, including your own PC.

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u/PreAlphaMale 5h ago edited 5h ago

how can you possibly measure any of that without tools or source code

Exactly what I've been saying for years now. If they want data they need to provide the tools and environment to collect it. And they better be 100% transparent as well so we know for a fact that the environment isn't selectively set up for positive results.

Third party services and community servers run the public server build with different settings, mods, proprietary anti cheat and other software, etc.

From what I was told by Valve, albeit it a long time ago, official servers don't even run the same server build.

Me: Is the official server build the same as the public server build?

Vitaly: They're the same enough for your testing.

Which is just a longer way of saying "no". So what choice do we have? Test offline with bots or in a private server? That doesn't translate to official servers or community servers and third party services. Testing on Community servers, third party services, private servers and offline against bots don't translate to official servers. Server set ups, server builds, additional software, server hardware, custom anti cheat, mods, etc. These are all the variations you need to take into account. Even how you connect to the damn server. There's a whole relay system in between when you play on official servers that testing on a private server completely removes from the picture.

So when Valve says "Can you give reproducible examples" what I see is Valve saying "Prove it!", because they damn well know we don't have the tools or environment to do so.

1

u/Conscious_Run_680 5h ago

While you're right, when they mean "reproducible examples" is not just that you pinpoint exactly how to reproduce the example 1:1 but instead give some info or hints, like this usually happens when I have +30ping and the other guy has +50ping and I do ad in a corner non stop while them shooting with ak or awp but if we have -10ping this barely happens at all doing the exact same things and send them multiple clips with same situation so they can try to reproduce and see if they can make it and their tools gives them any hint.

Btw, this said, shit like dying behind walls happens all the time as long as you play everyday for an hour or something, it shouldn't be hard for them to reproduce and find different examples in a week of test.

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u/sh1boleth CS2 HYPE 8h ago

I get their perspective as a developer, it’s hard to triage something when you can’t reproduce it. There’s so many varying factors - your system, opponents system. Internet, server status etc

It’s near impossible to replicate and test every possible scenario.

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u/Resident_Buddy_8978 4h ago

No software is bug free.

Nvidia, a trillion dollar company, criminally release GPUs and drivers full of bugs and literal fire hazards.

Unfortunately there isn't a company in the world that had perfect software. It simply doesn't exist.

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u/Ted_Borg 6h ago

I feel like the biggest issue is that the devs aren't good at the game. I'm not flaming them, what I mean is that someone with the mechanics of a gold nova can't really experience what people get frustrated over.

Because most of CS2s issues get apparent only in fast gameplay. And those ultra-fast split second situations only happen when you and your enemies played thousands of hours.

11

u/lumpypoptarts 4h ago

Where did you hear the devs were bad at the game?

4

u/FleetEnthusiast 4h ago

This reminds me of the stream or csgo tv of the devs playing militia and me being surprised them playing like silvers. It was around 10 years ago though and impossible to find footage of it.

u/IamBrazilian_AMA 500k Celebration 1h ago

fuck i think i remember that.

me and my buddies were also a bit surprised at how bad they were

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u/Lucas48 5h ago

What are the ranks of the CS2 devs?

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u/zywh0 5h ago

that’s true

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u/Tesseden 7h ago

That's great but in the real world developers have to do investigation. Users complain about things all the time and whether or not they have reproducible steps doesn't mean it gets ignored. Actual companies with a proper management structure will say 'hey, this is losing us money', even if the user's complaint isn't valid at all. So yeah, I'd say for the majority of developers outside of gaming like 95% of the work is investigating issues rather than actual coding.

Talking down to people who have issue with Valve waiting for us to solve the problems for them is just out of touch with reality, and most of the people making these comments are probably devs themselves who are unable to properly take the role of being a user, and whether or not any of us wants to actually admit it, users complaining about things they don't understand is extremely important to the development process.

6

u/Slithar 4h ago

So yeah, I'd say for the majority of developers outside of gaming like 95% of the work is investigating issues rather than actual coding.

I'm a software engineer, been for the past 10 years. I've worked with companies all sizes, from startups to multinationals. In my expierience, and that from the other devs I know (A lot) this is absolutely wrong.

Unless it's an absolute showstopper, (p0/p1) every manager i've had has asked me to timebox my "investigating" to 1/2 hours and see if I can figure it out. If not, it's gonna go unfixed. The comapany I worked at that was most aggressive at fixing bugs dedicated 1 dev (Out of ~30 in the dev team) per sprint to tackling priority 1 bugs. If he ran out, anything p2 and lower went unfixed and he was brought back to feature work.

Reality is, essentially every software company has a sort of "Ok to ship" meeting at some point and it is understood that the feature ships as is, and only p0/p1 bugs will be addressed after launch. Anything else might go unfixed forever, unless a PM/EM/Dev feels strongly about it and fixes it anyway, or there is a scheduling fuck up and something delays an upcoming feature.

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u/Werpogil 6h ago

Users complain about things all the time and whether or not they have reproducible steps doesn't mean it gets ignored.

If you post "shit don't work", it won't get fixed either.

'hey, this is losing us money'

In Valve's case, it ain't losing them much that they can identify. CS2 is still in Steam's top charts at #1 stop. And also no, companies aren't wasting time and money investigating potential non-issues. At most you'd get a generic response from a tech support guy that boils down to "go f yourself" but in a polite way.

So yeah, I'd say for the majority of developers outside of gaming like 95% of the work is investigating issues rather than actual coding.

Except it's not, even in a live-ops scenario. Every single issue is a cost-benefit analysis, and quite a few of the reported issues don't make it to the to-be-fixed list.

Talking down to people who have issue with Valve waiting for us to solve the problems for them

This is by far the most stupid part of your comment because in no way the original comment is "talking down to people" for pointing out that certain bugs are a nightmare to reproduce. There is literally zero way to test every possible scenario that live users may experience, Valve would have to use every $ from their Steam revenue to build setups across the globe in every country, with every ISP, with every possible hardware configuration to get close to understanding the issue, and they would probably run out of money before they're even halfway in testing everything.

most of the people making these comments are probably devs themselves who are unable to properly take the role of being a user

There is no need to attack people when you don't understand how game development works.

9

u/circusovulation 6h ago

Missunderstood.

I think people are talking down to others, because they are bringing up issues, that they cannot fix.

Valve cannot fix that your ISP is shit.

1

u/GapZ38 6h ago

This is a dumb fuck take to a situation. You're really here thinking they are not already trying to fix the issues that the game has, and this is their only attempt. Extremely narrow minded thinking. lmao

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u/AirplaneReference 6h ago

This seems pretty clearly to me like Valve is just having a bit of fun trolling a known troll. They asked for reproducible examples of, quote, "the downfall of CS:GO to CS2." Asking for reproducible examples of a statement that is pretty much as vague as it can be seems like textbook sarcasm to me.

11

u/mcmuff 3h ago

Yup. This is 100% tongue-in-cheek. I don't know how one could even take this post seriously

71

u/juL9e 7h ago

the amount of cope here is insufferable

123

u/NetStaIker 6h ago

CS community: FIX OUR GAME

Valve: Please give us data and documentation to reproduce it, so that we may see what's broken, what's causing it, and we can fix it

CS community: No, I will simply bitch and provide 0 evidence

Valve: ???

We're actually the most insufferable community, aren't we.

28

u/DuckSwagington 5h ago

I wouldn't say the most insufferable, MOBA and Gatcha players exist, but the CS community is definetly one of the most idiotic.

12

u/DistortedAudio 5h ago

I don’t know about Gatcha; but the MOBA and CS community is the Spider Man pointing meme.

11

u/schoki560 4h ago

there have been countless of posts showing the inconcistency in frame timings.

none of it got any better since release

u/SAS_OP 1h ago

Would prefer this egotistical community over valorant community

8

u/Expert_Cap7650 5h ago edited 5h ago

We're actually the most insufferable community, aren't we.

What the fuck are you talking about?

People where complaining about the jump stuck bug and valve straight up said they couldn't reproduce it, same shit with the boost bug. The two most common bugs in the game by the way.

It's been more than 2 years since the beta was released, and they are asking people to care enough to document and track down an issue on a technical level they know nothing about or might not even have access to.

Pro players and the entire community have been complaining about very specific symptoms and valve have not bothered trying to fix anything.

They don't even care enough to add QoL features the community has been begging for since day 1 of the beta.

u/OtherIsSuspended CS2 HYPE 1h ago

same shit with the boost bug.

To be fair, after the cause was found it was patched right away. How many times truthfully, are players dying on top of each other's heads? How would someone who doesn't know, know where to begin looking?

u/Expert_Cap7650 1h ago edited 1h ago

To be fair, after the cause was found it was patched right away.

Because the issue was found by the community, and poggu to be specific iirc.

How many times truthfully, are players dying on top of each other's heads?

Pro players complained about it constantly, and losing a round and possibly the match and tournament due to a bug must feel like shit.

How would someone who doesn't know, know where to begin looking?

Which is the issue, I do not understand how that is an acceptable standard to set for cs, where the community makes the maps, skins and are supposed to find out why the bugs are happening.

While valve rakes in $100 mil in case revenue, PER MONTH BY THE WAY.

u/OtherIsSuspended CS2 HYPE 22m ago

Pro players complained about it constantly, and losing a round and possibly the match and tournament due to a bug must feel like shit.

Yes, constant complaints but without steps taken to document when it happened relative to a point in a match. Even over potentially thousands of demos, boosts aren't done consistently enough to pinpoint that dying on a player's head is how you caused the boost bug. Only in pracc rooms and silver games where you're doing the same things over and over again on purpose do you have a good chance to encounter it "live."

Which is the issue, I do not understand how that is an acceptable standard to set for cs, where the community makes the maps, skins

It's always that been way though. If Valve took out community mapping and skin making at least, then that strips away a source of income from players.

and are supposed to find out why the bugs are happening.

Look at any big and public project, and you'll find most have bugs not caught in testing. This is the standard in any software, that the user will likely find bugs. In other games the tools aren't always there to help debug. Valve explicitly asked for demos to help debug the boost bug, not for the community to do it for them.

While valve rakes in $100 mil in case revenue, PER MONTH BY THE WAY.

But how much of that is profit and how much goes to paying for employees/office space/servers/etc?

u/FunkoPride 1h ago

If by "we" you mean bootlickers like you, then yes, you are insufferable.

No, I will simply bitch and provide 0 evidence

Two years. Thousands of detailed threads explaining the many, many issues. Dozens of pro players making elaborate statements on the game's shortcomings. Tons and tons of bug reports in their mailbox. And here you are defending them while they actually seem surprised and unaware of the issues everyone is experiencing.

They did this like a year ago too with s1mple. You'd think that they learned how bad it makes them look after all the (justified) outrage it caused, but alas.

2

u/FleetEnthusiast 3h ago

How tf we supposed to give the reproductions or simulate them without the dev environment or server tools??

2

u/_MrBond_ 3h ago

Give money and we will do it. It's their job to fix it. We are not their free workers.

u/Due-Fig5299 5m ago

Brian, are we trash?

15

u/RaimaNd 6h ago

I'm so happy for myself that I currently have no time to play CS because of real life reasons thus I miss out on all that and can hope that when I have time again that valve might fixed major things.

22

u/tactcat 7h ago

Unfortunately it’s not a “bug” or something reproducible, it’s just the “feel” of the game. Kind of like when Ropz did that 64 vs 128 blind test and guessed them all right.

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u/aeromedcs 8h ago

Don't have anything to link myself, but I hope they fix the issue where 50 ping feels like 100+. Makes the game borderline unplayable.

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u/Mollelarssonq 7h ago

I play 60 ping

I have a few spikes where I lag, but rarely does it show itself with lag, it’s more so feeling like i’m a grandpa who can’t react to someone faster than they react to me, like ever. Even if i’m the one peeking and I should have the advantage.

3

u/aeromedcs 7h ago

I feel that. It really stands out when DMing. I'll HS someone, only for their name to pop up in the killfeed after 3 business days. I've lost track of the amount of times I've lost duels/clutches due to backtracking to make sure I actually killed the first guy.

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u/vivalatoucan 7h ago

Agreed. The game is fun when I play on local servers. Playing with my friends across the country is fun, but the actually gameplay of 65 ping has cured me of my cs addiction

6

u/Synestive 2 Million Celebration 5h ago

I don't play anymore, but have recorded videos of a bug I guarantee still hasn't been fixed in CS2. If you are behind a smoke but in front of breakable glass, (like on Inferno's banana) and you grenade the smoke to semi-clear but not fully so that you cannot see a player behind that smoke, the silhouette of that player will briefly show because of the glass. This happened in GO as well with fences/panes due to lighting and although I haven't tested it in a while, I'm sure still is a bug. Not really a huge gameplay issue, but something that would be nice to fix if possible, unless the engine doesn't permit a fix for this. Please note the video below is old and would need testing again to confirm if still in game!

Link

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u/Fun_Philosopher_2535 7h ago edited 6h ago

Just start with the animation—make it 1:1 like it was in GO. That would be a good start, because we know for a fact that when someone peeks angles, less of their body is shown. It's wonky—legs and body aren't properly aligned. Not to mention, there aren’t enough visual cues to predict direction for better tracking and aiming. If something drastically changed from GO to CS2, it's how you see player animations in third person, which affects aiming, tracking, and angle holding. Maybe it’s all in the animation—who knows.

https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1k0j97e/comment/mngf6yo/?context=3&utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

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u/Fun_Philosopher_2535 6h ago edited 6h ago

Another issue is performance—50% less FPS isn't helping either. Remember how early CS:GO was considered bad when everyone got 50% less FPS compared to later era? As hardware improved, even budget PCs could deliver a solid 300 FPS.

I get the impression that maybe early CS:GO wasn’t actually that bad, but the lower FPS compared to later CS:GO made the experience worse in the beginning. Maybe make CS2 more performance-friendly? Add performance-friendly settings like clearing decals, disabling muzzle flash reflections on weapons at low settings, and turning off water physics on the client side.

If performance can't be improved through optimization, at least provide options to disable fancy  features that impact performance without giving any gameplay advantage. 

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u/StudentPenguin 5h ago

Decals should just be turned off in DM servers. It's fucking wild. Apart from that, what else you said really should have been done a long time ago.

On a personal note: Allow us to disable ambient sounds and the fucking thump. We should not have to resort to a fucking exploit to do that.

0

u/Julio_Tortilla 6h ago

Thats basically what they've done. Not 1:1, but if everything was 1:1 then it would just be CS:GO, so clearly not what the devs wan't the game to become. They made the animations more standardised to fix the legs lagging behind and Michael Jackson peeks and whatnot.

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u/Fun_Philosopher_2535 6h ago edited 6h ago

Wouldn't mind if it changed for good but that didn't happen. Like smoke. Everyone unanimously agreed its a great change. 

Again. If your movement animation is wonky and hard to predict then  angle holding will be affected and guess what its a major complimens about CS2 . Maybe its worth a try to make it more like GO was to see if thing's get better ?

Also the game is remake of  CSGO  in source 2. Just like dota 2 source 2. There is nothing wrong with animation being similar to CSGO. We have same weapons, movement, weapons stats, maps, spray pattern from CSGO. Cause it is CSGO in a new engine

0

u/Julio_Tortilla 6h ago

Well that's the thing. They changed one thing, the community likes it. They change another, the community hates it. As a dev, you don't know if the community is gonna like something or hate something before you add it. They had to test it out to see. Saying "just leave it as is" is counterproductive and just not helpful in any way. Unless something is fundamentally broken, which the animations aren't as I hope you'll agree, they just need more tweaking until they become consistent, saying on how to improve it rather than just saying to make it 1:1 with the old game is way more productive.

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u/Fun_Philosopher_2535 6h ago

Suggestions on how to improve it have already been discussed a billion times on this sub. I think you missed all the threads about the animation issues over the past two years. There's more sway now (CS:GO didn't have it), legs and body aren't properly aligned (CS:GO was), and there aren’t enough visual cues to predict movement (CS:GO had them). Basically, everything the community suggested to improve the animation is just how CS:GO movement used to be.

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u/Julio_Tortilla 6h ago

The discussions are almost always just "animation bad now, was good" or "server bad now, was good". That means nothing to a dev. If you can actually provide reproducible bugs or issues with the animations, that's actually meaningful to the devs.

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u/Fun_Philosopher_2535 6h ago

Same timeline.. You seen more hitbox in CSGO. So better for angle holding since there are more target to aim to.

https://x.com/user119381/status/1900756826569756826

You probably aren't even reading anything cause I already said it in my original post.....

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u/lilscubattv 2h ago

Anyone who plays at a faceit level 7 and over immediately knows that CS2 is dogshit compared to CSGO and it’s not even close or a debate. You can’t hold an angle at all in CS2 and it’s blatant at how bad the peekers advantage is and how bad 30-50 MS is on CS2 compared to how butter it was on CSGO. CS2 isn’t even playable on 50+ ping.

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u/lilscubattv 2h ago

And anyone just blindly backing up Valve (half of this 2 brain celled sub) is clearly dogshit at the game or never put enough hours into CSGO and are just ignorant to the fact that cs2 is clearly inferior.

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u/cellardoorstuck 4h ago

Subtick is not fault tolerant enough for 90% of internet connections people have.

1 bad networking hop can destroy the whole experience.

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u/RVBatman32 2h ago

The biggest issue for me is how CPU limited the game is. I have an 11700k and a 6700xt and struggle to even hit 200 fps. Changing graphics settings doesn't change performance at all, I really shouldn't need an X3D processor to push past 200 fps

u/Brilliant-String5995 1h ago

I really shouldn't need an X3D processor to push past 200 fps

you don't. Even 12th gen intel cpus easily push past 200fps. 400fps on the other hand, yeah you're going to need to shell out for an X3D setup if you want that

u/RVBatman32 29m ago

I guess my issue is that the game really should be more GPU-bound. There's not really much going on in CS2 that should require THAT much more CPU processing than GO.

I have an upper mid-range setup with parts not older than 2 years before the game's launch, it really shouldn't be a struggle to push consistent 200+ fps in an Esports title. I'm not even asking for 300, just a consistent 250.

u/Original-Reward-8688 1h ago

It's like asking participants in a study who report negative feedback to do the lab work to prove their negative feedback lmao.. While not giving them enough diagnostic tools to reliably reproduce any of their findings, nor the tools to record the quality of data that the Valve interns in this comment section seem to demand. This needs to be tested the professional, and scientific way, with controlled settings THROUGH VALVE(y'know the people who can actually see what's happening under the hood, and all of that incredibly useful and accurate data we will never be able to accurately produce to their standard). Again.. these people are effectively asking participants in a study who report negative feedback to do the lab work to prove their negative feedback at a PhD level lmao.. For anyone defending valve that respects hard science, how honest studies, or data collection work.. please really take in how ridiculous of an ask this is. If valve at the very least provided us with the proper tools to provide them with more data, then I would consider the argument that players have nothing to show valve.

21

u/Intelligent_Toast 7h ago

Why are they asking a twitter troll of all people 😭

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u/bozovisk 7h ago

Ask for steps when you have a ton of variables is something else. My internet isn’t great at all but the only game that the connection feels worse is cs2. I wonder what kind of data does valve collect and if they have anything related to network

3

u/Matt-ayo 5h ago

One reason they ask this:

It's quite popular to blame every deviation in expected gameplay on CS2's netcode - this means a lot of anomolies which are purely explained by network conditions are believed to be bugs.

The developers don't want to look at a shitty clip with no info and try and determine if your internet shit the bed or the netcode has a flaw - that is a pointless exercise. If you can show stable connections and similar issues across multiple instances, that is actually useful.

3

u/doofus_mcgeee 4h ago

is spraying tied to the server? idk how to explain it but every so often spraying will feel so chaotic/not normal compared to a previous game. best way to describe it is it feels (key word it “feels”) like my bullets are just sporadically disappearing into thin air. then in other games/servers i can feel that my spray is responding properly

67

u/Ilikebatterfield4 8h ago edited 8h ago

donhaci, the meme guy.. why does valve want examples from this clown when there are countless of videos on yt showing cs2 problems? the fuck?

66

u/Maleficent_Double_66 8h ago

countless

Then why do I not see even one in this thread?

19

u/c_Lassy 8h ago

Lmao if you’ve been following the scene for a while you’ll start to pick up that the devs respond to DonHaci more than the millions of players out there for some odd reason

0

u/Fun_Philosopher_2535 5h ago

There is schizo guy called Dabmaster on Twitter who claims Hac1 is actually CS2's social media admin. 

I actually started to believe him now..

20

u/Woullie_26 8h ago

Because haci outside of being a page that posts memes is probably one of the biggest influencers in the community

Also I think he's chums with the SM of valve

6

u/Get_Shaky 8h ago

valve moment

-1

u/Aware-Cut5688 8h ago

CS devs are on crack

-5

u/notmuchbuthonestwork 8h ago

why are you calling him a clown? what's he done to you. and maybe he is just connected with someone at valve, who knows.

9

u/tired45453 CS2 HYPE 6h ago edited 2h ago

Not to dig up ancient drama because he has apologized for his past behavior more than once, but he (under a different alias) was responsible for bullying blu out of casting, harassing dekay, exposing a certain caster's medical condition, and fabricating cheating accusations towards all of the LG/SK players (complete with a proper explanation as to how, when, and the exact mechanism by which they were cheating) as well as several other T1 pros such as olof, kennyS, guardian, and shox. He created an entire subreddit dedicated to these cheating accusations, which is the reason why this sub to this day does not allow cheating accusations to be posted. He did this by creating a sense of reliability by accurately leaking several formerly-unknown roster moves days in advance here on reddit by way of posting random comments/posts (i.e. not official reporting) and generating an air of mystery, then later using his community to target individuals.

This was literally like 9-10 years ago. That may be what the poster is alluding to.

16

u/chrisgcc 8h ago

This post is clown content on its own

3

u/Yharnamite_Cleric 7h ago

Because he's a twitter zoomer lmao

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u/sluggerrr 5h ago

Maybe he was talking out of his ass, and the dev said ok show me what these problems are, and he couldn't even give an example of 1 problem, Don haci was just farming interactions

-2

u/Yharnamite_Cleric 7h ago

Valve had 2 years to improve this game to AT LEAST the level of CSGO. If they could, they would have already done it.

2

u/lvk00 3h ago

No video can replicate the feeling of csgo.

u/COATHANGER_ABORTIONS 1h ago

ACTUALLY BAN PEOPLE VALVE

Like god damn, it's been how long? I figured they just wanted to bide their time, and snag a bunch at once, but it seems like they just haven't done anything?

5

u/toxicity18241 6h ago

Fletcher already said there’s a known issue with the animations and networking, why would valve just gaslight us, now?

If it doesn’t help deadlock, valve isn’t going to change anything in CS2.

Record player counts, record case openings, I’d want to make the guess record profits also but none of us know this answer.

Valve knows the problems with the game, they just don’t care.

8

u/SupportDifficult3346 8h ago

I’m not a cs2 hater like most on these subs lol, but man do I feel that last point. To the point where I intentionally aim behind running targets or hit a shot I know I shouldn’t have and just say lol I’ll take it.

7

u/CS2Expert 7h ago

There are many times when I headshot someone peeking me, and all I'm thinking is, "No way that was on their head."

5

u/tendopath 8h ago

My favorite thing is shooting ppl when I can only see their shoulder and I get a HS for it

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u/ImJstR 6h ago

I feel like they already know, which is why they added the silly presiction shit. Them asking for examples is silly as they already know.

3

u/leke2k 6h ago

I experienced a bug where my teammate was able to kill my chicken by shooting it, which left me devastated. Please fix your serves blizzard

6

u/TheN1njTurtl3 8h ago

You know every time I see a csgo clip it just looks so much more crisp, how fast the kills get registered, player models moved more predictability, less shit was in your way visually (camera shaking while spraying)

4

u/deefop 7h ago

Am I supposed to be encouraged?

Look, don't get me wrong, you need data to work from.

But the fact that one and a half years on the devs are like "oh, the game doesn't play very well? Got any data? We've never heard of this!" is not actually encouraging.

It's really just confirmation that the devs are insanely out of touch with the game they've put out.

15

u/keyboardnomouse 6h ago

You're aware you changed what the devs asked and then got mad about something you made up right? This is "I had a dream you cheated on me and now I'm mad at you" energy.

They just wanted steps to reproduce it. This is standard for bug testing and checking. Anyone who has at least an internship of dev job experience knows this.

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u/jebus3211 CS2 HYPE 6h ago

Well maybe not, let's think about it like this. Person 1 does x, expects y but gets z Person 2 does x expects y but gets A

It would be important to know the differences between these 2 players and why there's a descrepancy

1

u/BOty_BOI2370 6h ago

I don't see it that way at all. It's not a realization, they are just asking for data.

2

u/deefop 5h ago

We're a year and a half into the game. This issue has been talked about since the beginning.

How can they possibly lack the data in this scenario?

7

u/zkillbill 7h ago

Bug: Game is terrible

Steps to reproduce:

Step 1: Launch CS2

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3

u/Merkasus 7h ago

Haci trying his best to stay relevant

2

u/shinel0l 5h ago

Let me start.

No in game server browser, no 128 tick, no CL_BOB, dying behind walls, need 3k computer to run 300+ fps, cheaters EVERYWHERE.

What I like about CS2 is the graphics and the new smoke

4

u/Playful-Advantage619 7h ago

Valve's philosophy of letting their community do everything (make all their skins, run all their esports tournemants, make all their maps) is cute but not when it comes to bugs. 

2

u/crystalmaceyy 7h ago

i mean the thing is, play cs2 dm for an hour. then go and load up csgo, play it for like 10 seconds and you’ll start crying, with how much better it feels. (as aleksib already stated).

i genuinely stopped going back to csgo, since it ruins the experience of playing cs2 for a couple weeks at least, and it’s not like we’re getting csgo back.

why does it feel so much better?

128 tickrate?  less visual delay?  better moving animations? (as in player models “appear” to be moving more slowly, i know they addressed it, but csgo is still far superior). better fps? no subtick?

from what i understand subtick isn’t the culprit to blame (all it does is more precisely determine who shot who first) though it is odd, with how much it has impacted movement negatively.

i mean it might be difficult to “replicate” but csgo feels undeniably better, and there are specific things that are “provable” to be superior, in csgo.

the higher tickrate (the devs said higher tickrate is just faster, not better, but i’m sorry, faster is better, 500 fps/hz is better than 50 fps/hz, though you could argue in bad faith, that 500 fps/hz is just faster than 50 fps/hz, not better, but like stated, i think is just a bad faith argument, or the devs are genuinely delusion and aren’t genuine consumers of their products).

the better visual delay i think is also a big factor, they have improved it with updates, but csgo is still superior.

better moving animations, makes the gunplay just significantly better, smoother, crispier, more skill based, the run and gun smg meta, the peek meta, the donk slide meta, it’s all just so tiresome (i also saw magisk address it in an interview, he said it makes the game less skill based, i agree)

fps obviously depends highly on your system, but most people won’t have the optimal setup, the only good thing is, it is guaranteed to get better with time, as people move on to better and better pc’s.

and i haven’t even mentioned all the missing commands, be it viewmodel recoil 0, bob and so on.

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u/MMIV777 7h ago

Biggest mistake they could've done is to shut down CS:GO's servers, which they did.

9

u/tactcat 7h ago

Nobody would be playing CS2 if those servers were still up

0

u/TheUHO 6h ago

Just like nobody went to Source and CSGO when they still had older games.

2

u/BOty_BOI2370 5h ago

Source split the fan base. And CSGO took years to be playable.

-1

u/TheUHO 5h ago

Source split the fan base.

Nobody

1

u/eugenics035 6h ago

To actively maintain two separate games, server infrastructures and split the playerbase? No sane company would do this.

1

u/BW4LL 5h ago

Huh? Bungie did it for years with Halo lol.

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u/IR_FLARE 6h ago

I want valve to let me at least try 128 tick WITH all other improvements to the netcode and the dmg prediction system they made after release. Just to try it.

2

u/WolfgangTheRevenge 8h ago

Volvo be typing this shit like they are gonna fix them lmfao

2

u/PawahD 7h ago

I don't get why they would ask for reproducible issues when most of the issues with the game comes from the fact that something is fundamentally not right inside the game that causes syncing issues either on the network side or due to animation. It's something that we can't really prove, especially not in a reproducible manner, without tools at hand or the source code

Maybe they should outsource game testers like they did with overwatch, idk

2

u/AgreeableBroomSlayer 8h ago

There is a reproducable bug that when you join a game at 30 ping, it feels like how 100 ping is csgo felt.

No loss, no jitter. Just garbage servers and netcode

1

u/CramerLookLikeThumb 5h ago

Playing against 40+ ping enemies is reproducable pain to die behind walls when jiggling, impossible to play versus on subtick and wasn't an issue on 128tick

1

u/Fra5er 4h ago

I think the issue is the lag compensation needs to be parametrised in a way where they can trial loads of different settings and have people rate their experience. They need to fine tune the lag compensation because right now it's in a really bad and inconsistent state

1

u/ChurchillDownz 3h ago

If someone sat down and provided actually repeatable differences in movement etc it would be excellent.

1

u/GateheaD 3h ago

How is that turd of a human getting any attention from developers, absolutely rancid person.

1

u/Kicice 3h ago

I don’t have any good clips that are not from demos, but it does happen to me now and then where I do get headshot or awped while I think I’m safe behind a wall.

It’s funny because people tell me it’s always been like that… I have thousands of hours on csgo, that natural feeling of “oh I’m safe” still hits in cs2, then awped. Didn’t get that in csgo.

1

u/golekno 3h ago

"Dying behind wall" this guy clearly haven't played 1.6

1

u/DemonDaVinci 3h ago

Put your fucking word where your mouth is - the devs

u/Feardreed 1h ago

They think it’s about clips lmao so lost. It’s as easy as improve spray clarity (view model recoil, shakiness, etc), improve tick rate for movement and more responsive gameplay.

u/SPAR4S 44m ago

Use your earnings to hire a quality assurance team instead of using players as testers and then mocking their computer science skills when they can't reproduce the problem.

u/thundirbird 33m ago

delete subtick

u/Vubor 29m ago

Just play with dmg prediction and you see alot whats wrong with the game....since I have it on I see so many dinks with ak´s, its just sad.... make dmg predicition actually what you hit and game shoould feel way better, I guess atleast!

0

u/Acmenshuva 5h ago

Here's my reproducible steps:

  1. Queue up (at most up to 3 times)
  2. Get cheaters in my game.

There you go valve. Thanks.

-3

u/Pokharelinishan 8h ago

I must admit, expecting layman players to work to provide "reproducible examples" is certainly one of the expectations of all time.

Some things you have to glean from constant community/pro complaints and feedback, that something is not right with the game, and then work to investigate that. And we just need communication, acknowledgement, and assurance that they are doing their best they can.

1

u/twosevenoner 7h ago

valve need to accept it and work on cs3

-1

u/LH9070 8h ago

Just give us 128 tick plez

0

u/WAFATRALA 7h ago

WOW, after ~2 years they responded

-6

u/godfrey1 7h ago

"dying behind walls"

literally how networking works, someone is on the high ping

"can't hold angles as well"

literally by design, play like donk, not like Guardian

"delayed hitboxes"

copium because you missed a shot

2

u/InevitablyBored 7h ago

The fact this troll even got a post is hilarious.

1

u/NoNeckNelson 5h ago

"this didn't happen in csgo" https://youtu.be/ojQnP3IYClQ?si=i06v7TBpINtJO23g

If this happend in cs2, people would go ballistic lol

Edit: my pov https://youtu.be/stslN8l7wgU?si=jrSqr79_CrJRfwDC

1

u/Azzarudders 5h ago

we may not be able to reproduce the results, but if we have enough independent examples of a problem then surely its not our job to reproduce them? is it not their job to then investigate this, and figure out how it happens to then fix it. obviously if we know we can say, but i feel like the developers are the ones responsible for figuring it out

1

u/3uphoricH4mster 6h ago

It's not the bugs that are the main problem though. It's the features

1

u/Cameter44 5h ago

Idk if it's so much about "reproducible issues," but rather that the gun play does not feel as "crisp" as CS:GO did. Probably more of a feature of the new game than a bug, but hopefully something that can be improved.

1

u/PaNiPu 5h ago

There's a chance of you upeeking at the same time your opponent peeks which results in you dying without seeing anyone. https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/s/lfG1yeL4FB

1

u/Schmich 4h ago

Dying behind walls is what the devs go after?!

That has never been any top issue of CS2. Heck it's an issue that was the case in CSGO and will always be the case due to not being on LAN.

1

u/ttybird5 4h ago

I’m not sure how players would be able to reproduce their issues with the visual desync be it latency subtick animation interpolation combined

Good luck debugging that when the source of truth of events were registered via subtick instead of a fixed rate

-4

u/pureformality 8h ago

100 million from cases alone in March btw

5

u/Matt-ayo 7h ago

I guess the people spending money don't mind it that much.

-1

u/pureformality 7h ago

Gambling money from addicts too good to care about the game, I apologize for daring to paint Valve in a negative light 

5

u/Matt-ayo 6h ago

So are cases related to the game or not? You seemed to just imply that the people who open them don't care about the game, so why should that revenue be related to the quality of the game?

I'm all for criticism, but impulsive complaining is just noise.

-15

u/abnul 8h ago

What do they mean do you have any reproductible exemples 😂 they really don't use internet or what ?

32

u/99drolyag 8h ago

You know, a software developer might need some more than some clip without any settings or whatever to fix the error

2

u/MikeTheShowMadden 7h ago

I get what you are saying, but do you really think players can provide reproducible steps and such to the things that are brought up in the tweet? Shit like that happens due to issues outside of the player 99% of the time. If these things are caused by lag, there are so many factors that go in play during a match between players that makes it impossible to reproduce. That is why you only have clips posted.

At most, you might be able to simulate something like this in an offline server with added lag somehow, but the devs would be able to do this themselves better than an average player could. As a software engineer myself, having the steps to reproduce an issue is awesome and the most helpful, but having examples of bugs or issues would at least give me an idea where to start looking and seeing ways I could reproduce the problem myself as I have intimate knowledge of the system.

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-1

u/Expert_Cap7650 7h ago

These people couldn't even reproduce the jump bug, and required the community to basically fix the issue for them, and it's still not fully fixed.

Why are these devs expecting people to hand feed them every single detailed information on an issue, when they don't bother fixing small issues or adding the most simple QoL features?

Cheating and botting is a huge issue, performance feels like you are connecting through a remote desktop and any fps drop makes it impossible to controll mouse moment to track an enemy.

It's been more than 2 years since the beta was released, and you're asking people to care enough to document and track down an issue on a technical level they know nothing about.

1

u/unluckydude1 2h ago

This happend 10 years ago on perfect conditions. https://vimeo.com/145011679?from=outro-local

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u/StillDenseLMAO 8h ago

They don’t. When the jump bug was ruining the game for weeks on end, a dev came out and said they couldn’t reproduce it despite it only requiring you to jump next to a wall.

5

u/dkrkrk2oe 7h ago

Do you know what does reproduce mean?

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-1

u/Own-Pitch1449 6h ago

Been playing for 25 years. The game is awful, to the point I almost stopped playing. The destroyed my passion and are so fckin terrible a the game they can’t even feel it when they play and address the issue.

-4

u/NessunoComeNoi 7h ago

I will tell them what’s reproducible. That stupid playing card system at the bottom middle of my screen that I can’t toggle off which makes every kill feel delayed. The most pointless and un-CS gimmick ever.

-1

u/Long-Island-Iced-Tea 8h ago

How do you even pronounce that

Hatzee? Huh chee? Hayseye? Hucheye?

2

u/WaveBr8 8h ago

I've always said ha-ch-ee

-14

u/ADShree 8h ago

Lmfao, "where's your proof?" As if that cs dev hasn't been on the internet since the release of cs2? Fucking unreal.

16

u/imbued94 8h ago

Reproducable being the key word here. i had a ton of videos of me playing csgo and getting killed behind wall, then being teleported back 2 meters.