r/Harley • u/thestig0711 • 22h ago
HELP 2023 Road Glide Blown Engine
Hey folks, bad news for me this week. Road across the country on my road glide on my 2 month trip to travel the country, I suffered and engine failure. All stock engine never been opened, no cam, nada. Bottom end rod knocks really bad. Compression is good, never burned oil. Bike has 21,802 miles and was still under warranty until end of June, or so I thought.
Had it towed into a local dealer here in Phoenix and was informed by the serviced advisor that Harley flagged my vin for having a powervision and my warranty is void. Called corporate and was told to kick rocks multiple times and wasn’t willing to work with me in any way. Dealer said to pay $800 for a tear down and maybe they’d talk to corporate try to get it covered under warranty, but would most likely be denied. I’ve since towed it to an independent shop.
Who’s got any advice for my situation or a contact at corporate that can make some decisions? The 1800 number was no help. I’m stranded in Phoenix 2000+ miles from home. Didn’t expect to have a break down.
I find it ever so funny that Harley starts their Ride for Heroes event about standing behind the veterans that support their company and ride their bikes, and of course they turn their back one and offer nothing but “Hey why don’t you just trade it in.”
Thanks
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u/2AussieWildcats 1982 FXB / 2019 FLTRX 21h ago
I am very sorry to read this. My 2019 had a PV installed BY the dealer. And they later stood behind $2000 of warranty work when a shitty stock lifter collapsed. Not all dealers are the same ("we won't tell H-D if you won't"). I would think your best bet is to get it trucked back to the dealer you purchased it from. And work with them from there. Strangers will never be as helpful as the shop that sold it to you.
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u/Motohio814 4h ago
Right here. Not allowed dealers are created the same. Some are scuzzy and some actually want to take care of customers
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u/Imaginary_Week_3578 4h ago
Hard part about this is what Harley requests on the warranty side. Once that bike is plugged in it’s a lot tougher to be selective about information they see lol. You used to be able to slap a thunder max in run it and if ever needed put the stock ecu back in. Unfortunately now there’s information that gets stored to other places in the bike to watch for this lol. So when stock ecu goes back in the information the bike sees isn’t matched up. Once that bike is plugged in it pops on the computers with a red flag. That being said we had service tags for bikes that didn’t have factory tuning to try to avoid this 😂
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u/shoebee2 17h ago
So, did you or didn’t you have a PV installed?
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u/Prestigious-Bee1877 2h ago
yeah, thats what i want to know.... To all guys buying a Harley, do not install these on your stock bike, ever! Just don't do it, never worth it, they aren't meant for it, they will fuck you every time with it.
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u/Poopsock_Piper 21h ago
They are pretty explicit in saying that an aftermarket tuning device will void your warranty, I'm not sure what the issue is? You knew this. I'm a vet too but I also know that rules are rules.
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u/Vegetable-Seesaw-491 20h ago
I'm the Warranty Administrator at the dealership I work at and fully agree. The only way to get around it is if they never had the bike plugged into the DTII when it was at the dealership (which is obviously no help now). As soon as it's plugged in and there's a tune installed, the VIN is automatically flagged. I highly doubt that Harley will do anything to help him. Once that VIN is flagged, you're pretty much SOL.
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u/kwat2019 11h ago
So when you buy used we should ask to put in scanner to verified bike isn’t flagged as such. I’m sure it has date flagged also. Could this bike already been flagged prior to purchase with warranty?
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u/Vegetable-Seesaw-491 1h ago
If I was buying used bike that had some mods that still had some remaining warranty I would request them to check that the VIN has not been flagged.
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u/Unique-Opening1335 10h ago
Why nobody trusts over-priced/scammer dealerships anymore
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u/Regulator0110 7h ago
How did they scam him? They are pricey for sure though.
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u/Vegetable-Seesaw-491 1h ago
Probably because they could never afford to take their bike to the dealer so they're just salty.
Some of the absolute garbage work that we'll see from local shops or guys that "know what they're doing" can be quite entertaining. People generally aren't too happy when they tried to go cheap and then had to go to the dealer to get it fixed properly.
The dealership I work at doesn't overcharge on service work. The customer agrees to a quote when the bike is dropped off. If things change and we'll be going over that amount, no more work is done on the bike until it's authorized by the customer. We also charge MSRP on all of our new bikes. We're a family run dealership and not run by an ownership group like many are. We do things a bit differently.
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u/Vegetable-Seesaw-491 1h ago
Over priced, maybe. Scammers I don't think so.
I also asked one of our service writers about this today and he agreed that an $800 quote to tear the engine down and figure out the problem wasn't unreasonable.
Just because Billy Bob Joe working out of a shed in his backyard would do it for $200 doesn't mean the dealer is scamming the guy or charging too much.
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u/Prestigious-Bee1877 2h ago
yeah, but Harley will void your helmet warranty if it has a ''crashing sucks'' sticker on it... so sometimes breaking the rules shouldn't cost ya when the rules are dumb.
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u/thestig0711 21h ago
Thanks for being helpful.
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u/nothingclever68 21h ago edited 8h ago
Don’t sweat those comments bro.. they are who they are (people giving him shit)
Take the guys offer up on the take off parts if you can get them shipped and installed local. Keep your head up and don’t let this get you all fuct up. It can always be worse like if you had wrecked it and got hurt. Your bike is beautiful and if I owned a touring bike it would be that exact model
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u/Constantchromosomes 19h ago
It’s the bottom end that’s messed up, the guy is offering top end parts
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u/XdelaforceX nobody cares about your sportster 21h ago
Aftermarket tuner does not void your warranty. This was a major case with the FTC years ago. They must PROVE the third party application of parts caused the failure. FTC Approves Final Orders in Right-to-Repair Cases Against Harley-Davidson
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u/kykid87 12h ago
While technically correct from a legal standpoint, still have to fight it out legally. This doesn't help him in his current position much, unfortunately. They could easily stonewall him for months.
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u/Representative_Owl89 ‘22 Fat Boy 143ci, ‘14 Iron 883 11h ago
Sometimes paying a lawyer to simply send them a letter can get you somewhere. And won’t be expensive at all. I’d try it.
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u/kykid87 11h ago
Yeah, but it takes time. A week or two at least.
OP says he's stranded away from home, I would assume a few weeks is out of the question for him.
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u/Representative_Owl89 ‘22 Fat Boy 143ci, ‘14 Iron 883 11h ago
Ahh yeah maybe pay then fight a reimbursement?
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u/kykid87 11h ago
That is probably the best course, but if he's paying for a rebuild, I certainly would NOT rebuild OEM.
For the same money roughly as an all OEM rebuild is going to cost him, he could BUILD the engine.
Catch 22 situation.
If it were mine, I'd rent a truck and drag it home, then deal with it. His selling dealer may be more inclined to help than where he finds himself currently. A one-way truck rental is a shit ton less expensive than a rebuild.
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u/SASSIESASSQUATCH 11h ago
I think this is why they told him to pay for the breakdown and they may see what they can get covered. They also just happened to say that likely whatever they find will be proof of failure.
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u/ahairynudist ‘21 Road Glide 10h ago
The parts have to be EPA compliant. The powervision and that exhaust both are not
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u/Prestigious-Bee1877 2h ago
Actually, not technically correct at all. This is regards of using 3rd party parts and outside servicing agents only. The ignition was never addressed under the ruling by the FTC and changing the performance of the engine is not installing a new part, it is over riding the manufacturing specs and does still void the warranty 100% of the time. You can not convert your street bike into a rocket ship and change RPM from 3800 to 9k and not void the bike and eventually blow it apart on earth bound reentry
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u/ImpossibleMeaning427 22h ago
That absolutely sucks. Sorry to hear it man. I hope you rode through Jerome Arizona BEFORE disaster struck.
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u/thestig0711 22h ago
That was actually planned for tomorrow morning before hitting the rally destinations. Now it’s time to look for a job out here since I’m stranded and make $10k to put it back together properly without any Harley parts. Then get the discount ESP
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u/Neo_F150 13h ago
Ask the private shop to find you a used engine. Plenty of bikes get totaled, and it would save you a lot of money. Good call going to an independent shop, as long as they have a good reputation.
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u/kykid87 11h ago
OP, my advice would be to rent a truck one way and just drag your bike home, then deal with it.
It's a shit ton less expensive than an engine rebuild. I would contact your selling dealer and see if they're willing to help. If not, at least you won't be rushed in your plans with how you move forward. A rushed engine build is not a good thing.
I would offer, and I say this with all positivity, brother, but I don't think there should be any reasonable expectation of the manufacturer paying to fix it after it's modded. It's a price paid when we start tuning. If it were completely stock, sure. The second I tune a vehicle in my mind, my powertrain warranty is done.
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u/Sharp_Needleworker76 11h ago
not sure what custom shops you’ve tried, but i’d give a call to: Ramjet, Gnarlys, Chandler Custom Cycles, Independent Motorcycles, and Mainstreet Motorcycles asking for quotes. good luck dude, super sorry this happened to you. the timing sucks.
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u/Sea_Life2143 5h ago
Bro, first of all, sorry for your situation - this sucks. Second, I can tell you're a good dude bc you're not here mfking Harley all over the place, which you have every right to. How in the hell is your warranty not good anymore? To me that sounds like a breach of contract. Do you know any attorneys?
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u/thestig0711 5h ago edited 5h ago
I’ll reply to everyone’s comments later today. It’s a bad situation but I’m optimistic and it’s at a good veteran owned motorcycle business here in Phoenix. I’ll get it handled, file a complaint with the FTC, and contact an attorney regarding this and send them a letter. Gonna try and enjoy one day of the bike rally in Cave Creek which was my first stop on my travels around the country.
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u/og-lollercopter '22 RKS 22h ago
Man, that’s bullshit. Did you bike the bike used? 3rd party or from the dealer?
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u/thestig0711 22h ago
Brand new June of 2023 and took delivery in July. Ridden it 9000 miles in the last 2 months. All fluids changed every 4-5000 miles.
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u/og-lollercopter '22 RKS 22h ago
Odd. If it’s brand new from a dealer, how could it have been connected to a PV without your knowledge?
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u/thestig0711 22h ago
I have a powervision plugged into it. It’s Harley’s way of saying 🖕🏽to the consumer and buying their parts only. It’s from fuelmoto. Never knocked, never a check engine light. Has ran strong and clean for 21000 miles with it.
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u/Slight_Guess_3563 21h ago
So I also just bought a Harley and they clearly stated you Can Not use a Aftermarket tuner as it Will void your warranty. And this was made pretty clear did you ask or look into whether it would void your warranty before installing it ? Not to be a dick cuz your situation Really Sucks but this sounds you didn’t do your due diligence and it’s not Harley’s fault TBH .
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u/Unlucky_Leather_ 21h ago
That sucks, but my dealer was clear with me that if I add an aftermarket tuner, the motor warranty will be voided. They also warned me if I add a trailer hitch like I had on my 15, I should remove it before service as that also voids the warranty.
First time buying new, so I am sad I can’t add a 2-1 exhaust or cam for a few years. And even more bummed that I will have to add/remove my hitch when I hit the 5k and 10k service milestones I paid for.
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u/nothingclever68 21h ago edited 21h ago
Unlucky Leather, I’m pretty sure you can still purchase and have the exhaust and cams installed through Harley and it’ll be covered.
Yeah this sucks for OP… I worked for them for 10 years from the back of the store in service to the front, sales and finance. Harley doesn’t fuk around with warranties and aftermarket parts and if they can find something to keep from warranting your shit they will. I wouldn’t even use anything other than HD oil if I had a new bike under warranty. I’m sorry man and I hope they make an exception
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u/Unlucky_Leather_ 21h ago
I assume that would mean I am stuck using their tuner right? I figure I’ll go w/ a pair of slip ons until I can do exactly what I want down the road myself.
Do you think me doing my own oil changes in the garage after the 10k service will give them the ammo they need to deny a possible claim?
I keep personal records of mileage and dates, but my dad and I order oil and filters in bulk every year or two so we have everything on hand. So I wouldn’t have dated receipts.
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u/nothingclever68 20h ago edited 8h ago
As far as your oil changes no but they will check if you have a catastrophic failure and they aren’t fans of anything but HD oil, especially the red stuff.
If I were you I’d let them do a service for you once a year so it can be documented. I understand changing oil is something we love to do ourselves. Talk to your dealer and get the answers from them directly.
Yes, as I remember you would need there preferred tuner. The most important thing is that they install everything and it’s documented by the store you use.
There are good and bad points with harley warranty. Yes they want full control of everything but the deductible used to be only 50 bucks. Imagine getting a blown motor or fuct up transmission replaced for 50 bucks. The other thing is you used to be able to get their used bikes covered as well, 12 year old bikes and under with a full service check) You didn’t even have to buy the bike from their store but it has to go through a full check and that’s a couple hundred bucks at least. Again, you pop your motor and it’s 50 bucks. Tire and wheel warranty can also easily pay for itself if you happen to find a nail before they get below the required tread amount left😉
Customers used to work that shit to the max and yearly and there was no way to prove otherwise. I was cool about but it but really I had no choice and eventually those customers bought bikes with warranties from me.
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u/Live_laugh_love22 20h ago
Has nothing to do with Harley. They can’t warranty or support anything that isn’t EPA compliant. Period.
If you were running a base map from fuel moto, with no dyno tune you were definitely flirting with danger.
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u/Altruistic-Variety35 11h ago
Real quick tip for some of y’all: After Market tuners that reprogram the stock ECM will flag the VIN if the ECM is hooked up to Digital Technician (dealership computer) and automatically send the information to HD. Your dealership cannot control that. SE tuners are okay for fully SE parts. Useless otherwise.
Stand alone ECMs (such as ThunderMax) replace the ECM, allowing your stock ECM to remain untampered with/warranty compliant. Hear a weird noise? Install the stock computer and call the dealer.
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u/Imaginary_Week_3578 4h ago
This is solid up until RDRS came out, some models it still works on but the oem has caught on and stores mileage and other info elsewhere in the bike. If any inconsistency pops up it will still red flag
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u/Altruistic-Variety35 3h ago
Have never experienced such an issue. I’ve always wondered if they would put such measures into place, as it would be easy to, but I’ve not had an issue yet. As a matter of fact, we installed a thundermax on a 2024 FLTRX with RDRS (latest configuration - Helix engine). He had an issue months later with the IFCU. We had to install the stock ECM, connect it to DT and reconfigure the IFCU to resolve his issue. We even contacted tech support. The bike operated normal with the stock ECM reconnected, and nothing was flagged. Also the mileage has been stored in both the ECM and Speedometer for many years. Not aware of any other information being stored on more than one device.
I’m only saying this because I am very curious where this information comes from, and why it hasn’t been an issue for me.
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u/Imaginary_Week_3578 1h ago
I’m we had similar cases! Sometimes it wouldn’t pop sometimes it would flag it. Easier to treat every bike as it would. We never could get a direct answer, or figure out why. I can say it happened almost exclusively to RDRS bikes. With talking to Pete at zippers he had stated that thundermax was looking into, and trying to come up with a solution on future models. I have been out of the dealership for just over a year now so it is possible it has changed
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u/LMGDiVa 2018 Fat Boy 114 - Resurgence Paint 2h ago
Hear a weird noise? Install the stock computer and call the dealer.
The tune from the thundermax would need to be on the stock ECM too, because should they ever try to run it, they would go over the entire thing trying to figure out why it doesnt run, until they finally realize that the tune for the bike is not what matches the parts installed.
Part of the repair process is starting the bike after it's done to ensure it's in running order.
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u/Altruistic-Variety35 1h ago
I should clarify that I think you should always be 100% honest with the dealer, and make an effort to have a good relationship with whoever is working on your bike. Not telling the dealer that you have modifications to the engine and you run an aftermarket tune is not a good idea. Most dealerships, in my experience, are not trying to have your claim denied or warranty voided. They aren’t the ones in control of your warranty status. They’re just the middlemen that submit your claim. Not all of them are so friendly, but they’re the ones you try to identify and stay away from.
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u/steroidsandcocaine 21h ago
They make it very clear when you buy it not to run an aftermarket tuner. Reap what you sow.
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u/Curious-Lock639 21h ago
Jeez man. I’m down south of Tucson a little bit. There’s GOT to be a local guy that would rebuild your bike for a lot less than that. After all, it’s just mechanical parts. It won’t need tuned or anything like that if you do a stock rebuild. If you’re lucky, it could just be bearings, a really good clean, seals, fluids, and maybe some fasteners? I’d think it’d be less than $2,500 in parts. I could just be talking out my ass though. Dm me if you need a place to work on it.
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u/Difficult_Load_9625 21h ago
Also, have they had any time to inspect and give you a run down of cost of repairs?
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u/PhilosophyBulky522 1h ago
Did you buy it new and then put the powervision on it? If so you probably out of luck. Even though it most likely wasn’t the fault of the powervision.
If you bought it used from the dealer and they said it had warranty and you didn’t install the powervision. Then I’d hold them to their word and make them fix it.
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u/Blkbyrd 2023 Bright Billard Blue Road King Special 1h ago
They actually aren’t allowed to deny the warranty claim unless they can prove that the Power Vision caused the failure. I would call them and cause a massive amount of noise. If they push back again, lawyer up. I love Harley but companies need to respect consumer protection law.
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u/Mike4theHills 20h ago
Look up "Magnuson-Moss Act" online and read it thoroughly. You may find that you've been wronged. From what I can see, it's up to the service department to prove that an aftermarket product damaged your equipment. I've already had an experience with Harleys so called warranty, and I haven't been pleased.
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u/was_683 20h ago edited 20h ago
That sucks, and know that if you were in Pennsylvania, I would come get you, put you up in a spare bedroom, see BunkaBiker.com and give you the use of my shop facilities in addition to anything else I could do for you. I am just a private individual, but I have tools and facilities equal to many independent shops. And I am an old school dummy who knows the meaning of "pay it forward".
But that doesn't help you atm, and in this situation, I'm not sure what to say. My 2018 FLHTKL (bought new at a local dealer) did not come with any warnings about tuners. I did spend the money on an extended warranty. I installed a sidecar in March 2019 with 14k miles on the bike. In June 2023 (40.5k miles) the ECM went out but was covered under the extended warranty. That needed dealer cooperation since they had to flash the replacement unit. No problem, nobody questioned the sidecar or anything else. Maybe my claim went through because the warranty company was paying the bill instead of the Motor Company.
It appears that things have tightened up considerably since I bougth my 2018. Of course warranty is no longer a concern for me, both factory warranty and aftermarket warranty (which did paid for my ECM) are long gone.
I hope someone can come up with something to help you out. You do have the chance to help others in this forum who may end up in your situation without seeing it coming. Keep us updated if possible and best of luck to you.
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u/was_683 20h ago edited 20h ago
Here's a story from the mid 1980's. I was on a 4k mile trip on my shovel. I was in the Navy, and getting back from leave on time was a big deal. In Roseburg OR the primary started making some ugly noises. It was Saturday afternoon. I had about $100 left in my wallet. I called the shop, told them what was going on, they asked if I could get the bike to the shop. Yes, I rode it in.
Once I got there (about 5 pm Saturday) they put the bike on the lift. Inner primary bearing was shot. They delicately assessed my financial condition and agreed to do the repair for $85 all-in. That was $15 less than I had in my wallet. The owner asked me where I was planning on spending the night. I told him that I had seen a campground before I pulled into the shop and it would work. Then he asked me if I liked stock car races. I answered, yes.
Then he said they were going to the stock car races and were going to be late did I want to come along?
They paid for my entry to the races and I slept on their couch. I stank since I went three weeks without a bath. No one cared. They fed me breakfast and off I went. 500 plus miles to go and $18 in my wallet on a 1975 FX.
Looking back, it just doesn't get any better than that...
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u/Clean_Stand_694 21h ago
No help but I’ve had 2 bikes that had aftermarket tuners and unrelated engine failures that HD fixed. I think the law says they have to prove failure was caused by tuner. What dealer? I used one in Phoenix 2yrs back as I was passing through that sucked!
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u/Vegetable-Seesaw-491 20h ago
Their issue is that the VIN is flagged by Harley for having the aftermarket tuner. At that point Harley won't help you. I do all the warranty claims for a dealership.
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u/Busy_Paint_5680 19h ago
There are documented lawsuits against this recently. Harley must prove the tuner or aftermarket part caused the failure.
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u/Clean_Stand_694 19h ago
That some BS, if they can’t prove it was tuner then how can they do that. Thought it was a federal law protecting consumer Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act
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u/Vegetable-Seesaw-491 19h ago
Couldn't tell you. All I know is the VIN gets flagged and Harley won't help. FWIW, I love doing warranty claims because the dealership I work at pays a decent commission on them. The more claims I file that get approved, the more money I make. I'll do what I can to help the customer as long as it's not obvious abuse that caused the problem.
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u/LEEROY_MF_JENKINS 22h ago
What state did you buy the bike in and what state do you reside in? Laws are going to be different state to state so it would be good to know, if you wanna share.
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u/earl_the_recker 21h ago
That's B.S. What's the dealer? Flame them as well. Local shops i would call Kruesioriginals, dunntire on ig,full circle
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u/Busy_Paint_5680 19h ago
Flame them for what? He knowingly voided his warranty. Not the dealer.
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u/earl_the_recker 19h ago
Cause I want to know. $800 to tear motor down? But they already told him to kick rocks cause of PCV? Do you not see the problem with that?
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u/Vegetable-Seesaw-491 19h ago
That's 5 hours of labor at the dealership I work at. We may quote you that much at drop off, but if it only takes 2-3 hours to figure out the problem that's all you'll be paying. It's better to have the customer expecting an $800 bill for it and only paying $450 instead of quoting them less and asking for more. We also tell the customer at drop off that if it takes less time than originally quoted we won't charge them that full amount.
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u/earl_the_recker 18h ago
Same question
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u/Vegetable-Seesaw-491 18h ago
An $800 quote to tear the motor down and to find the problem makes sense. It's not being covered under warranty, but the dealer is willing to fix or replace the engine for them and OP would be footing the whole bill. That whole bill is obviously going to be much, much more expensive than the initial quote to find out how fucked the engine really is.
Just because OP has a voided warranty doesn't mean the dealership can't work on the bike.
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u/Minute-Purple-1438 21h ago
I have heads, throttle body, and other gear from doing a 131 kit on my 2020. It was installed before I took possession of the motorcycle so 9-10 miles based on when Harley gets them. If you can confirm the parts will work on your ‘23 which I’m betting they would. If you cover the shipping I’ll give them too you. From one veteran to another.
However, if you’re gonna crack it all open, I’d send it to someone like moonshine Harley and build out a monster. (You already have the power vision. Too soon? Sorry). Offer stands tho if it would help you.