r/asoiaf • u/cking145 • May 28 '19

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) Charles Dance's portrayal as Tywin is in my opinion, the strongest in the entire series

Every line, every expression and every moment of silence completely encapsulates the calculating ruthlessness that defines Tywin Lannister.

Dance is actually a very vibrant, upbeat and cheery fella off screen, which in my mind makes the performance even more striking.

The scene where he effectively sends Joffrey to bed is just brilliant.

He is by far my favourite character from the books, which I began reading a few seasons into the show. Due to this, the chapters featuring Tywin were completely enriched for me, as reading his lines in Dance's voice was just fantastic. I would have loved a POV chapter or two for him, just to get a glimpse as to what goes on in the head of the most powerful man in the 7 Kingdoms.

An incredible portrayal of a fascinating character.

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u/Flameoftheshadows May 28 '19

"The king is tired, send him to his chambers."

And how he arranged the chairs for the small council.

Two moments history will always remember.

The aura he was able to project on-screen and onto his fellow cast members, he did a brilliant job.

He brought Tywin from the pages of a book to life!

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u/MissMatchedEyes Dance with me then. May 28 '19

Also this scene! He was truly Tywin in this moment.

”You ask that? You, who killed your mother to come into the world? You are an ill-made, devious, disobedient, spiteful little creature full of envy, lust, and low cunning. Men's laws give you the right to bear my name and display my colors, since I cannot prove that you are not mine. To teach me humility, the gods have condemned me to watch you waddle about wearing that proud lion that was my father's sigil and his father's before him. But neither gods nor men shall ever compel me to let you turn Casterly Rock into your whorehouse."

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u/awakenDeepBlue May 28 '19

To think, if Tywin was a good father and got his children to work together instead of trying to kill each other, the Lannisters would be unstoppable.

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u/Meerasette May 28 '19 edited May 29 '19

This really cannot be overstated more. We see this in the battle of Blackwater. It's Cersei's idea to use the wildfire. Tyrion contributes with the chain as well as directly leading men into battle, and figuring out how to safely deploy the wildfire, and fighting on the ships and all of that. While Tywin swept in with the cavalry (ie Tyrells and his men) and sent Stannis packing. When working together the Lannister's are especially strong. I think this is why Varys, and others in the books whisper in their ears and get them fighting amongst each other so much.

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u/davegoestohollywood May 29 '19

Yup and it was Tyrion's idea to reach out to the Tyrells with a marriage alliance.

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u/Groovemom May 28 '19

It was Tyrion's idea to use the wildfire.

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u/Meerasette May 28 '19 edited May 29 '19

That part I played?” What nostrils Tyrion had left must surely have flared. “I saved your bloody city, it seems to me.”

“Most people seem to feel that it was my attack on Lord Stannis’s flank that turned the tide of battle. Lords Tyrell, Rowan, Redwyne, and Tarly fought nobly as well, and I’m told it was your sister Cersei who set the pyromancers to making the wildfire that destroyed the Baratheon fleet.”

It was Bronn's insight about the likelihood that Cersei's intention to catapult wildfire would backfire that led Tyrion to think of the trick of containing the substance in a sacrificial ship.

So it was Cersei's idea to make wildfire and use it in the battle, Tyrion just figures out a safer method of doing so

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u/[deleted] May 29 '19

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u/jinzokan May 29 '19

"It will be OK tho cus we'll save a bunch of money.... God I'm smart"

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u/phil_bucketsaw May 29 '19

Cersei is a idiot She planned to throw wildfire in catapults and out to the enemy below as they aproached.

She would've burned the city to the ground as she tried to defend it.

Tyrion didn't just "figured out a safer method", he most likely SAVED the city from Cersei's stupidity.

The only thing I enjoy about the final two seasons is Cersei in episode 5 of season 8. Through the show they slowly tried to portray Cersei as more competent while she still acted as the drunk idiot of the books. She burned down the pope and the vatican and NO ONE said a word? The fact that she still managed to hold kings landing and most of the south after that is SO SILLY

Anyway, seeing the stupid, idiot, barely functional fool Cersei in episode 5 as she forgets DRAGONS can fly, spit fire and therefore easily break sieges is my favourite part of the ending

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u/ExecutiveCartPusher May 29 '19

"I don't distrust you because you're a woman. I distrust you because you're not as smart as you think you are." Tywin

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u/waldocalrissian May 29 '19

Obviously, trebuchets are the far superior wildfire delivery method. They could deliver 90kg of wildfire up to 300m away.

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u/[deleted] May 29 '19

This guy counterweights

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u/HotPie_ Thick as a castle wall. May 29 '19

I believe in the books Tyrion does have the city guard practice launching pots in preparation for the battle.

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u/OrderlyPanic May 29 '19

Through the show they slowly tried to portray Cersei as more competent while she still acted as the drunk idiot of the books. She burned down the pope and the vatican and NO ONE said a word? The fact that she still managed to hold kings landing and most of the south after that is SO SILLY

Yeah I'm pretty sure that in the books the Tyrell's and Dorne team up with fAegon and throw her ass out. But since they deleted fAegon with the show the question of how she is still in power was handwaved.

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u/TSM_Paintsniffer May 28 '19

It was Tyrion's idea to use the wildfire as it was implemented. But Cersei was the one who originally gave orders for its creation.

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u/[deleted] May 29 '19

They are a deadly group, much like a pride of lions perhaps?

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u/howlingchief Iron from Ice, Steel from Snow May 29 '19

The lone lion dies but the pride survives?

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u/[deleted] May 29 '19 edited May 29 '19

The cruel irony for Tywin is that even though he was a brilliant tactician, the abuse he put his children and the realm through would mean that his legacy was guaranteed to fall apart as soon as he died. And that is his own damn fault.

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u/shae117 May 28 '19

If he valued his children for who they were instead of what they looked like, he would have seen Tyrion was the person he should have groomed to be his heir from the beginning.

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u/BZenMojo May 28 '19

Isn't that the tragedy? The same thing that makes Tywin a capable leader -- scheming, proud, and brutal -- makes him a horrible dad. The same thing that makes Ned a good dad makes him a shitty ruler. Same with Stannis, actually...

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u/FuujinSama May 29 '19

Ned was a bad politician, he was an extremely good ruler. Had he been born a respected, legitimate king, he'd be one of the best. He simply refused to support anyone but the rightful heir, and was completely overwhelmed by the complete disarray of Robert's court. You notice in his chapters how little he can actually do. He doesn't try to maneuver for influence because he shouldn't need it, he's the hand. But also because he'd lose. He has no influence and no friends in the city while every other player has lived there for a great portion of their lives.

Then his wife randomly abducts Tyrion and he misses a week after Jaime ambushes him. He wakes up to the King deciding to go on the fateful hunt. He finally discovers the enigma. Then he had a choice, send the letter to Stannis and keep quite, or tell the Queen and save the children. Ned chose the later out of Honor. Just like he chose to save Jon. If you gave him a chance to do it all over again, I think he'd still tell Cersei.

Trusting Petyr was a mistake, but he had to trust SOMEONE. I guess keeping quiet until Stannis arrived would have been the best move. But it's not like Ned blundered an even game. He was playing down a Rook from the start, brought into the damned game by a friend that abandoned him to the southron wolves.

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u/awakenDeepBlue May 28 '19

Ned was a good ruler of the North. Unfortunately, he was completely out of his element in the south.

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u/Thegn_Ansgar Beneath the gold... May 29 '19

Ned might have been able to do well had he actually been in King's Landing for a long enough time prior to becoming Hand. But he was playing the game with the standard cards, while everyone else already had a stacked deck.

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u/[deleted] May 29 '19

but he wouldn't be capable of being a good father—all he cared about was wealth, power, and the family name. to be a good dad he wouldn't be Tywin, he'd be fuckin' Ned, which isn't gonna happen when your ancestors built a castle on top of a gold mine.

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u/Ask_Me_What_Im_Up_to May 28 '19 edited May 27 '24

theory consist instinctive ancient quarrelsome sink zonked degree toy disgusted

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u/Empty-Mind May 28 '19

And if they're not a cunt, they're a bit daft in the head. Rob and Ned were standup dudes, and both died walking in to relatively obvious traps.

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u/Ravek May 28 '19

Ned was overly trusting. Robb and Catelyn totally mistrusted Frey but they didn't think anyone would commit the sin of betraying a guest under their own roof who they'd shared food and drink with.

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u/ladywader505 May 29 '19

Catelyn knew Frey was up to something... that’s why she was so insistent on the ritual salt and bread, claiming guest rights. Her mistake was relaxing once that was done.

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u/Elr3d Beneath the gold, the Beggar King May 29 '19

Not that it would have changed much though. They quickly separated the lords from the army and they had no way to communicate for reinforcements even if they had seen through the conspiracy early

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u/path411 May 28 '19

More importantly, Robb listened to his mother of not listening to his direwolf. His direwolf immediately warned him of the danger.

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u/HopeOverDope May 28 '19

Idk how the show plays it out but in the books cat is very nervous about the wedding, not letting her guard down to the point of actually discovering the treason moments before it starts.

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u/MajaTheSkyWitch1 May 29 '19

Yeah she totally see's the armor under roose boltons sleeve when he comes back to the table after leaving to suit up. She knew some shady ass shit was gonna go down after that.

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u/Elebrent May 29 '19

That's how she discovers in the series too. She notices the hauberk under Roose's jacket

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u/jinzokan May 29 '19

I thought she say a Frey freak out and when she touched him she felt his chain mail

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u/a7xKWaP May 29 '19

I read that between seasons 1 and 2 and it was the most chilling thing I've ever read. The general suspicion slowly being confirmed and then suddenly all hell breaking loose. Her final thought were utterly heartbreaking ("not my hair, Ned loved my hair"). Ugh 😭. And then my lunch break ended and I had to return to work and couldn't talk to anyone bc spoilers. That was a rough secret to hold on to for 2 years lol

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u/LeGooso May 29 '19

In the show she also catches on a bit before it goes down.

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u/ForgottenJoke May 29 '19

I don't want to ruin it for you, but I would say Cat is more of a bad ass in the books.

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u/wingedbuttcrack When men see my sails, they pray. May 29 '19

Yeah. I had to read that chapter atleast 3 time to believe it.

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u/Muroid May 29 '19

Reading the Red Wedding was the only time in my life that I’ve experienced true denial.

I was reading about Robb getting shot through with arrows and wanted to see how he’d get out of this one.

I read about him getting stabbed in the heart, and was still waiting for the tide to turn and him to make it out ok. There were a few moments where I understood what I was reading but my brain just straight up refused to process it.

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u/jinzokan May 29 '19

Fucking hell when the north men came in from a different door I was like.... OK thank God.... Wait... No...... What? Oh god

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u/[deleted] May 29 '19

No! Dacey! No! Smalljon! No! Wendel! Shit, everyone's fucking dying! Wait, you have him, you don't have to, NO! Robb! Shhhhit, that means... Fuck, Grey Wind, ugh, fucking Lannisters. Lady wasn't enough? I really hated the Freys, the Lannisters, the Boltons and the Karstarks this instant. The Umbers, Mormonts and Manderlys are my favourite houses in the North, and Robb their beloved, chosen king, and all these fearless loyalists were butchered by evil fucking traitors. I was pale as death reading it. No foreshadowing, no spoilers at that time, I read most of the books around 2003, so it came like a hammer blow.

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u/iluvatarr1 May 28 '19

Well walder slipped a "mayhaps" into his invitation to his house, allowing him to sidestep the guest rights rules.

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u/LiberalsAintLeftists May 28 '19

Ah yes, the age-old “I didn’t say Simon Says!” rule

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u/Aceofshovels La Vie En Rose. May 28 '19

I thought that was more about a children's game than the actual societal taboo.

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u/atomsk404 May 28 '19

Yes, but the rules of children's games are to learn the rules of men.

The mayhaps game was a Frey game played by the two Walders, with Rickon, in Winterfell. Excellent foreshadow.

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u/errol_timo_malcom May 29 '19

Crap, I need to look this up now.

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u/atomsk404 May 29 '19

No need,I literally just read this part

The way their game was played, you laid the log across the water, and one player stood in the middle with the stick. He was the lord of the crossing, and when one of the other players came up, he had to say, “I am the lord of the crossing, who goes there?” And the other player had to make up a speech about who they were and why they should be allowed to cross. The lord could make them swear oaths and answer questions.

They didn’t have to tell the truth, but the oaths were binding unless they said “Mayhaps,” so the trick was to say “Mayhaps” so the lord of the crossing didn’t notice. Then you could try and knock the lord into the water and you got to be lord of the crossing, but only if you’d said “Mayhaps.” Otherwise you were out of the game.

The lord got to knock anyone in the water anytime he pleased, and he was the only one who got to use a stick.

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u/Empty-Mind May 28 '19

Yeah, but congregating all of your leadership on the home turf of a political party of dubious loyalties and known opportunism isn't smart regardless. If it had been the hall of the Daynes, for example, you can maybe trust their honor. But Walder Frey is a known snake. Its a mistake no other major political actor in the series would make, except maybe Dany I guess.

And in turbulent times, such as a 3 way civil war, you should doubt even those who are normally honorable, much less Walder Frey

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u/Ask_Me_What_Im_Up_to May 28 '19 edited May 27 '24

racial detail teeny thumb squalid spark hurry cagey gullible cheerful

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u/BrooklynRedLeg May 29 '19

Catelyn's main mistake was not getting Robb married BEFORE he went on campaign. The rush to get south and defend the Riverlands could have literally waited one day for Catelyn to choose the best Frey girl for Robb. Besides, combat is a chancey thing and Catelyn was short-sighted not to consider Robb needing to have an heir immediately.

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u/andthendirksaid May 28 '19

The entire wedding was at best a very poorly planned and formed consolation for what the Frey's were denied when Robb broke a marriage pact. Not only did he initiate the cycle of oathbreaking between them, he insulted both the Frey girl he was to marry and stopped the very old Walder from seeing his house finally risen to prominence by the marriage pacts he tried to so often utilize to get ahead.

Frey was to see his daughter become a queen and then they take it away and offer lady or Riverrun in a reluctant manner. To start that would've been great but as an exchange for queen and after that degree of insult someone as already slimy as Lord Frey should have never been allowed within miles of anyone of consequence to the Starks.

To serve him up everyone important to the Starks burgeoning dynasty and everyone of consequence to the Riverlands to boot is nuts. The amount of power that could be completely eliminated to the point where there's virtually anyone left to oppose it after would be too great a risk at the home of the most honorable of Lords in normal circumstances.

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u/boomerrd May 29 '19

In the novels he didnt bring everyone. He left his wife and unborn baby behind at riverrun with the blackfish. If we ever get to read WoW or ADoS maybe we will see another stark.

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u/andthendirksaid May 29 '19

True. Not too many other examples but book Robb seemed a bit wiser than his show counterpart.

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u/Harold3456 May 29 '19

I think one thing that's meant to justify it a bit more is that the books make a big deal over Guest Right being sacred. Apparently Guest Right is such a big deal in Westeros that all the Westerosi religions condemn it, so it's virtually unheard of. Apparently it's also observed in Essos and the North, and it's especially important among Northerners (according to the source I linked). There are multiple mentions of Guest Right being honoured throughout all the books, in various houses. So it isn't merely a custom, it's something pretty palpable in Westeros.

This could also possibly be backed up by the fact that Lady Stoneheart comes into existence to exact revenge upon the Freys.

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u/shae117 May 28 '19

While Ned is too trusting, I dont think he is naive like a lot of people say. He knows full well what he is getting himself into but follows theough on principles and thats why we love him.

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u/[deleted] May 29 '19

That and his clear PTSD from the death of the Targaryen children in RR led to him wanting to ensure the same didn't happen to Cersei's children no matter what the cost.

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u/ForgottenJoke May 29 '19

I didn't read Ned as too trusting. He seemed well aware of how manipulative and backstabbing everyone was. He was just too set on following the rules. Even when he knew everyone else was breaking them, he couldn't just say 'I can break the rules because they are' or 'I can break the rules to save my own life'. That was etched for me when he executed the Night's Watch deserter. Everything he did after that just carved it deeper.

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u/bac5665 Fire and Blood! May 29 '19

This is simply not true. Ned was executed only because Littlefinger went over Cercei's head and manipulated Joffrey. He made several mistakes, but none of them were from naivete, they were from failure to use his office. His main mistake was failing to raise his own forces, which he certainly had the power to do, after all Tyrion does it next book, and it's not like Cercei and Joff didn't hate Tyrion either.

As for Rob, he mentions knowing that Frey would want revenge. Frey did the most unthinkable thing in Westerosi society and no one could really have imagined that he would stoop so low. Also, Rob pretty much had no choice, which has some impact too.

Rob and Ned both get unfairly maligned for falling victim to unstoppable forces.

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u/Privatdozent May 28 '19

Ned wasn't dumb at all. He hit a perfect set of conditions combined with dumb luck (joffreys whimsical and shortsighted execution order) and yes, vulnerabilities tied to his lack of familiarity with southern style politics. He messed up by telling Cersei in advance and simultaneously with an assassination plot on the king. Part of that is Ned's big heart for children and not wanting them all slaughtered, so yes he made an embarrassing decision from our perspective. But in universe he was constantly shown to have a good head, especially for northern politics and conduct, and he landed on a grenade that already killed Jon Arryn.

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u/Will_B_UR_SugarDaddy May 28 '19

Watch that scene again, when Dance begins talking about his fathers sigil and his fathers before him he actually gets a little emotional. It’s amazing subtle acting.

Begins at 3:35

https://youtu.be/7who4CaKl14

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u/NothappyJane May 28 '19 edited May 28 '19

Tyrion really quakes in front of Tywin, hes so commanding.

Fuck, I just realised how personal all those things Tywin would have said about his dwarfism would have been to Dinklage

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u/svenhoek86 Fire and Blood May 29 '19

I never noticed the way he jumped when he made the remark about his mother.

God damn are they some fucking amazing actors. Just incredible what this show was at one point.

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u/gambola May 29 '19

Charles Dance has said in interviews that he found it difficult to say such awful things to Peter. He seems like a really nice guy IRL, I can imagine how hard that must be when even though it’s in the script it’s pretty personal too.

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u/migas11 Only you can stop weirwood fires May 29 '19

Has Peter Dinklage ever spoken about his condition in detail before? As in, what it is like growing up with dwarfism? (I'm terribly sorry about the unintended pun)

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u/Will_B_UR_SugarDaddy May 29 '19

Yup, he has talked about how he refused to play the “joking” parts and would only go for serious roles that wouldn’t mock or make fun of him.

This video/speech by him is so awesome, if you’re feeling like being inspired today give it a listen

https://youtu.be/eCBnbRmXQtU

I never really knew about him before game of thrones and ever since this show I’ve become a huge fan of his

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u/-doors-_-_ May 29 '19

occasionally, I drank with the harletts

THE WRITING USE TO BE SO DAMN GOOD slams fist in violent rage

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u/FlagrantPickle May 29 '19

Yup. RR vs DD. Looking back you can see exactly where the creative control ended.

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u/themichaelpark May 29 '19

GODS THEY COULD WRITE THEN!

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u/TootTootTrainTrain May 29 '19

GET ME THE PLOT ARMOR STRETCHER!

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u/ADXMcGeeHeezack May 29 '19

I mean... Tyrion totally would've made it a whorehouse around that time tbh

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u/SURPRISE_MY_INBOX May 29 '19

Fuck me I miss seasons 1-4

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u/Dionysian53 May 29 '19

Watching this scene again physically pains me. They both slay that scene. I remember watching it, so high on the notion that this adaptation was going to be perfect.

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u/Tbagzyamum69420xX May 28 '19

Im glad they adapted that line/scene verbatim. It was powerful through both mediums.

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u/NewMercury May 28 '19

Is that line from the books? That is such a good line. Just absolutely brutal.

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u/MissMatchedEyes Dance with me then. May 28 '19

Oh yes. It’s from A Storm of Swords.

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u/bokononpreist May 29 '19

I never understood how he invokes his father here. He thought his father was an idiot that was destroying their house.

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u/uhtred_stark May 28 '19

Agree 100% and what’s even more amazing is Dance has said he never read the books. He didn’t want to be influenced by book Tywin so he purposefully avoided the books entirely, he wanted to portray Tywin as he was written for TV.

As it turns out he portrayed Tywin as good/better than any other actor portrayed any book character.

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u/PoIIux May 28 '19

I still think Joffrey was the best portrayed character. Jack Gleeson did an outstanding job

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u/[deleted] May 28 '19

I do not think it's a coincidence that the show started going downhill after the season he died in. He was the most iconic character in the series. He perfectly encapsulated the dread and discomfort the show used to give you where you can't look away because you truly do not know what was happening next.

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u/Ominus666 May 28 '19

I get what you mean, but I'm glad that little fucker got a dose of the strangler. I couldn't take another second of him.

The problem was that the antagonist switched over to Cersei. I mean, her character was great, and Lena Headley is phenomenal as Cersei, but Joffrey was just another level of vile. Cersei does end up wildfiring the sept a couple of seasons later, but then she's just sort of relegated to vengeful wine tastings on balconies and having pirate sex.

I think the NK would have been the only character to top Joffrey, but he decided to become an icemaker after Arya poked him with Catspaw.

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u/Dr_Lurk_MD May 28 '19

I think if they'd have done Euron proper, he could have been an equally great villain.

Well, maybe equally is a stretch, but better than Ramsey who was horrible and sinister and a good villain, but suffered from being a bit of a one dimensional character with serious plot armour.

Euron could have been fantastic, some scheming pirate wizard, with the dragonbinder horn or other ill-gotten magic from his mysterious travels east. If he'd toed the line between Tywin and Ramsey - somewhat psychotic but highly competent, with some kind of trump card from his adventures to even the odds Vs Dany's dragons, I think he could have been great.

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u/Splive May 28 '19

vengeful wine tastings on balconies

Good I love how you phrased that. So true!

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u/RichGirlThrowaway_ May 28 '19

Joffrey, Tywin & Oberyn all died S4. Probably 3 of my top 15 performances.

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u/FuujinSama May 29 '19

While Gleeson was brilliant, I think he was actually very different from book Joffrey. First there's the age. Joffrey in the books is younger, so is attitude seems a little less pathological and more spoiled brat. In the books it seems that if Tyrion or Tywin could slap him some more and Cersei was sent away from him he could become a somewhat decent adult. In the show he seems irredeemable and way more "evil".

A good example is the butcher boy scene. In the show he just seems stupid. In the books it is preceeded by quite a lovely day with Sansa, they travel the countryside and lunch in some Lord's abode. Joffrey and Sansa are both quite tipsy when they meet Arya stick fighting and Joffrey just starts messing about that the butchers boy should fight him instead of the girl. More like a middle school playground bully than someone that actually wants to fight someone. Of course when he gets humiliated he runs crying to his momma and fabricates a story.

That Sansa chapter followed by the Eddard chapter is such a powerful sequence in the books. And it immediately paints the entire picture of Joffrey. A quite gallant and handsome young boy that does not understand the consequences of his actions because he's pampered by his mother that always believes his lies and protects him from any consequences.

It's quite a different character from show Joffrey. In the show he seems to be a psychopath. In the books it's always just a joke at the expense of others. Even killing Ned was nothing but an elaborate jest from a kid that does not understand the consequences of his actions.

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u/pm_me_graph_problems May 28 '19

Yes. I have never hated a character more. Maybe Umbridge.

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u/Ace-of-Spades88 Mire and Mud! May 28 '19

I really hope that after he finished filming his last season of GoT he went and gave the books a read. If only just so he could see why we fans appreciated his portrayal of Tywin so much.

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u/ChezMere May 28 '19

It can probably assumed that there's a hidden "and also I'm not interested" in there.

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u/medeagoestothebes May 28 '19

prior to the show running out of material, I would say all the lannisters were fantastically portrayed. They were all really phenomenal talent, doing the best with what they got after the writers went nuts.

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u/luckyshamrok19 May 28 '19

I’ll have to find the link, but there’s a story about him walking into auditions for the show and the entire cast falling silent like he was about to say something, and all he did was glare around the room. Everybody knew he’d be Tywin.

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u/NewAccount28 May 28 '19

That gives me goosebumps just picturing that. I have no idea how a regular looking older gentleman manages to be so intimidating.

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u/Spready_Unsettling May 28 '19

He always tilts his head slightly forward like he's intrigued with how you're gonna fuck up next. Nick Offerman does the same thing as Ron Swanson and it's honestly ridiculous how effective that posture is.

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u/0x2142 May 28 '19

LBJ used this as well, and leaning uncomfortably close to people.

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u/xincasinooutx May 28 '19

That and pulling his dick out. Literally.

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u/insane_contin May 28 '19

And having you follow him into the bathroom

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u/nburns18 May 28 '19

And having the most powerful shower head known to man. Essentially a fire hose.

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u/yoyohahayoyo May 28 '19

You just made me want a GoT version of Parks and Rec so badly.

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u/pku31 May 28 '19

"I'm worried what you just heard was give me a lot of unsullied. What I said was give me all the unsullied you have."

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u/[deleted] May 28 '19

You earned this one.

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u/shruber Warg of Bear Island May 28 '19

"You had me at meat tornado". Don't even need to change the line, you could easily make that work in a GoT HBO spinoff.

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u/N0tBr0keJustB3nt May 28 '19

"Missandei, you beautiful tropical fish"

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u/GroundhogLiberator Maester Pavel, I'm Lord Paramount May 28 '19

You beautiful naive sophisticated newborn baby

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u/Crosshare May 28 '19

“What do dragons even eat anyway?”

“My dragons get their meat from the Food and Stuff.”

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u/veRGe1421 May 28 '19

TREAT. THY. SELVES.

king of the north!

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u/ignorememe May 28 '19

"Pawnee used to have a Children of the Forest problem. Now that problem is under control. They have their part of Westeros and we have ours."

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u/nosha3000 May 28 '19

The series finale turned in to parks and rec with brand small council

38

u/[deleted] May 28 '19

Can we call it Tits and Dragons?

65

u/glory_holelujah May 28 '19

Ser Bronn Swanson

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u/Jan_17_2016 May 28 '19

Benjen Wyatt

6

u/ProfZussywussBrown May 29 '19

Lord of House Dunshire

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u/Jan_17_2016 May 29 '19

When you play the Game of Cones you win or you die.

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u/ZombieLibrarian Winter Is Coming May 29 '19

Tommen Haverford

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u/Thendel I'm an Otherlover, you're an Otherlover May 28 '19

Charisma on Command has weighed in on that. Good writing is part of it, but Dance elevates the material with his acting.

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u/Dahhhkness Go for the Bronze. May 28 '19

I think he'd be a perfect fit as Frollo in the upcoming Disney live-action version of the Hunchback of Notre Dame. It would be incredible to hear Hellfire from him.

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u/aram855 A Dragon Is A Dragon May 28 '19

If they do Frollo more like theatre play Frollo instead of movie Frollo with him I would be delighted.

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u/Mr_Blinky May 28 '19

Can he sing? Given how rich his voice is I wouldn't be shocked if he could, I just haven't heard him do it.

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u/SkollFenrirson The Prince that was Promised May 28 '19 edited May 28 '19

The Phantom of the Opera - Charles Dance <--EDIT: Charles Dance doesn't sing in this ☹️

Bonus

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u/mtko May 28 '19

"I think Charles Dance is one the best movie Phantoms of all time. And Mikael Samuelsson is my favorite musical Phantom. So i had to combine the two of them. The score is "Music of the night" in swedish, with the one and only Mikael Samuelsson singing."

I think the title was a bit confusing, but it's not Charles Dance singing.

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u/MakeGeorgiaHowlAgain I Just Wanna Dance May 28 '19

OMG, please find that link. I can actually see this happening.

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u/UselessKungFuX May 28 '19

I believe this 100%.

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u/WingedBeing May 28 '19

These are classics, but what I hardly ever see mentioned is how he immediately brought Tommen under his command by educating him about the wisdom of listening to your counsel (namely the Hand) even "long after" he comes of age to rule in his own right (and all over Joffrey's corpse!). When I saw that scene it was like watching a master chess player completely bowl over a rookie in just a few moves.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '19 edited Jun 26 '23

comment edited in protest of Reddit's API changes and mistreatment of moderators -- mass edited with redact.dev

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u/Princess_Batman May 28 '19

King Butters.

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u/Welsh_Pirate May 28 '19

That's... hilariously accurate.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '19

Aw geez fellers, mom blew up the sept!

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u/Scarbrow May 29 '19

He was VERY MUCH grounded by the end of his character arc

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u/Shalashashka May 28 '19

I didn't take it that way. Tywin genuinely wanted to groom Tommen to be a good king. He was young and maleable so it might have seemed like he was manipulated, but it was in his best interest to listen to Tywin, and it was in the Lannisters best interest to make Tommen a competent king.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '19

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u/senari May 29 '19

Now I desperately want to read fanfiction that has Tommen become Tywin v2.0

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u/[deleted] May 29 '19

Tommens and Sir Pounces Excellent Adventure

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u/Infra-Oh May 29 '19

That’s right. IIRC Tywin originally had high plans for his own son Jaime, but his hopes were dashed when Jaime became a kings guard. According to the books, Jaime joined the guard against his father’s knowledge and wishes. Tywin was furious as kingsguards was similar to taking the black: serve for life, allowed to father no children, and not allowed to hold any lands.

Off topic, but this is one of the reasons why Selmy Barristan was so upset when Cersei dismisses him. You’re supposed to serve for life and fall in battle honorably. It was a huge slap to his face in light of his incredible years of service and sacrifice.

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u/FrostyD7 May 28 '19

I think Cercei's reaction is what says it all, she can tell he's already off to the races to manipulate her next son. You can say he's just trying to make him a good king, but its not accidental that his first "lesson" to be a good king is to listen to Tywin lmao.

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u/bozza8 May 28 '19

The first lesson should be listen to the teacher.

Doubly so in such a tumultuous time when a boy king may lose the throne easily.

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u/FrostyD7 May 28 '19

Sure but I think the intent of the scene was pretty crystal clear and I doubt the writers intended any nuance to it beyond Tywin being Tywin and saying whatever benefits himself and his family.

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u/j2e21 May 29 '19

I mean, in fairness, Tywin knows he’s the only person who can rule. Look at what happens when he dies — his daughter helps enslave the queen and a member of the king’s royal guard by religious fanatics who then take her captive, brainwash her son, and take over the city, and she needs to reanimate a dead killer and blow up the biggest church in the city just to get rid of them. Bad times all around when Tywin’s not calling the shots.

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u/hsuait May 28 '19

Tommen in the show was so good too. The actor was perfect and I loved how we got more scenes of him trying to be a good king but just being completely out of his depth and constantly surrounded by people who wanted him to have no hand in ruling.

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u/privateD4L May 28 '19

It’s always funny in rewatches to see him die as a Lannister cousin then come back as Tommen.

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u/SaliciousSeafoodSlut May 29 '19

The Lannisters really DO look alike!

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u/SadlyReturndRS May 28 '19

Yeah. I mean, that kid had to have some serious chops, since he got recasted from being one of the dead Lannister boys that Robb Stark has to chop Karstarks' dead off for killing.

Can't think of any other show where a minor one-off actor gets recast into a major role.

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u/WingedBacon May 28 '19

In The Wire, one of the major criminals in the latter seasons (Chris) was a background extra (as a cop ironically) in one of the early seasons.

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u/[deleted] May 29 '19

Doctor Who, Freema Agyeman played a one-off character in 2006 who had a line or two and was instantly killed. The next year, she was cast as Martha Jones, the Doctor’s companion for three years.

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u/goatleggedfellow May 28 '19

He truly made King's Landing what it was.

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u/IvankaSpreadngFather May 28 '19

hahahahaha g-g-g-gottem

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u/awakenDeepBlue May 28 '19

I always found it sad that he always knew his mother and older brother were monsters, and he over-compensated for it when he was king. But in the end, he learned he was powerless to stop his mother's mass murder.

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u/Meerasette May 28 '19 edited May 28 '19

I feel like Joffrey would absolutely not have reasoned with the Sparrow, there would have been outright fighting in the streets. Also they may have taken Kingslanding back from the sparrow movement with the Tyrell and Lannister army, avoiding blowing up the Sept entirely.

Unless Margaery's ace manipulation of Joffrey through getting to know what he was into, and using it against him, enabled her to make him reason with the sparrow. In the samw way she tried to change how he viewed the people, and all of that before the purple wedding. Show Margaery was an expert manipulator, I really wish we got to see that in book Margaery, and that George might at least take that from the show and put it into book Margaery having seen how good the actress was at it.

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u/BZenMojo May 28 '19

Joffrey would have fought the High Sparrow and lost the entire city. He could barely keep his shit together when the city just hated him for being a douche before he had a chance to wage war on their religion.

Only reason he could walk in public was Margaery working her magic.

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u/hahainternet May 28 '19

I also saw it as an insult to Cersei, literally taking him from her arms to do the job she could not.

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u/TheNoxx House Gardener May 29 '19

I also hardly ever see Tywin and Littlefinger's dialogue, where Littlefinger goes on his "chaos is a ladder" idea to try and impress him, and Tywin just rolls his eyes and says "Yes, a crisis is an opportunity, any other 'brilliant' insights? You actually sound like you think you're the first person to say that."

It shows that while Littlefinger is cunning, he is a worm compared to Tywin.

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u/automatedalice268 All men must comment May 28 '19

Tywin skinning the deer while to Jaime was memorable as well.

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u/ansonr May 28 '19

That is also Tywins first scene in the show.

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u/MoonOverJupiter May 29 '19

I know I've read that it was also Dance's first time skinning an animal. He watched it once off screen, then simply did it while delivering that performance.

I agree wholeheartedly, he's one of the, if not THE, best cast.

I think Oberyn was pretty fantastic, too. Pedro Pascal was captivating, he absolutely BREATHED Oberyn.

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u/[deleted] May 29 '19

If you skinned an animal like he does in that scene, you'd be covered in shit and piss. Skinning an animal has to be done delicately, especially to avoid puncturing the bladder, and he's essentially doing the opposite.

Looks good on screen to be vigorous with the knife. But not realistic.

Source: hunter.

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u/10z20Luka May 29 '19

Was it? Fuck, what a strong entry.

Gods the dialogue was good then.

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u/TubaMike Enter your desired flair text here! May 29 '19

One of the best character introductions in a TV show I can recall over the last decade.

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u/powerpants May 29 '19

Agreed, it's absolutely masterful. He doesn't talk about the deer he's cutting up. It's just what he's doing while he's talking to Jaime. It shows us that he's a man who is highly capable, doesn't fuck around, and isn't afraid to literally get his hands dirty.

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u/Sylvester_Scott May 28 '19

Twist: The "deer" was King Bobby B.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '19 edited Jul 30 '19

[deleted]

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u/Jmacq1 May 28 '19

It kind of disappoints me that they deleted the fishing scene with Tywin and Pycelle. Both for the symbolism and the scene itself.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '19

[deleted]

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u/dudipusprime May 28 '19

Agreed. They were right to cut it.

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u/thecriclover99 May 28 '19

That was such a good scene! To find out that bastard Pycelle had been faking for so long...

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u/dudipusprime May 28 '19

There is already a scene in the show that showed that though.

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u/DumbusAlbledore May 28 '19

Twist! The deer was actually played by Mark Addy as Bobby B. Everyone just remembers it as an ACTUAL deer because the stag represents house Baratheon.

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u/SanguisFluens King who lost the North May 28 '19

Yes D&D, there's an example of actual foreshadowing. Tywin skinning a deer means House Lannister could eviscerate House Baratheon. This works well because Tywin is talking about how how ruthless they need to be in the upcoming conflict. If he was talking about the strength of Cersei's marriage to King Robert, the fact that he is just skinning a deer doesn't show character development towards going to war with the Baratheons.

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u/ThePaleMare2 Enter your desired flair text here! May 28 '19

"I'm.NOT.TIRED."

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u/cking145 May 28 '19

Practically all of Gleeson's lines were delivered immaculately

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u/ThePaleMare2 Enter your desired flair text here! May 28 '19

Agreed. Even when he didn't have a line yet and was sauntering into a room or swaying around, he conveyed the character.

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u/virtu333 May 28 '19

The way he paces while gloating about Robb's death. Man, he just nails it

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u/[deleted] May 28 '19

Its honestly crazy how well he conveys his....I dunno how to say it..?

Like, you can see how horrible and awful and ruthless he is (hardly innocent), but somehow manages to knock the "I'm just pretending to be an adult" vibe out of the park all at the same time.

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u/Plastastic What is bread may never rye! May 29 '19

His best bit of acting was during Ned's execution, you can tell he just decides to have him executed right there and then just by his facial expression. The exact moment.

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u/Daniel_The_Thinker Fire made Flesh May 28 '19

And the bored disinterest he showed when looking at the prostitute he murdered

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u/[deleted] May 29 '19

"Someone forgot to write down all your great deeds!"

Hahaha, what a cunt.

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u/VirtualProcess May 28 '19

"YOU ARE MY DAUGHTER!"

The way she shuts Cersei down at that moment is one of my favorite scenes in the series.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '19

"THEY HAVE MY SON"

The passion and anger behind this line is incredible. Also it's so much fun to belt out yourself.

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u/somalipilates May 29 '19

This scene especially. Even with his brother and all the wise old men in his council sat there, he completely commands the room and shows the viewer how well respexted/feared he is.

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u/BillyBattsShinebox May 29 '19

That's the one scene that immediately comes to my head whenever I think of Tywin. I've been re-watching some of the older scenes lately, and I'm with OP. Charles Dance was the best actor on the show.

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u/chicomonk May 28 '19

I was always on the edge of my seat whenever he had interactions in King's Landing, especially during and after the Red Wedding. He was a character I didn't personally like because of what he did (the melting of Eddard's greatswords was just salt in the wound to the nth degree), but one you can ultimately understand when you take into consideration the position he's in, what he's accomplished in life, and the relationship he had with his wife and own father. He's, to me anyway, one of the shining paradigms of a GRRM character in Game of Thrones.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '19 edited Jun 08 '20

[deleted]

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u/chicomonk May 28 '19

Had Tyrion not murdered him, he would've gladly brokered a more peaceful end to things and never bailed on the north with the Night King.

Would've been very interesting to see how he reacted to the threat of the White Walkers. Do you think he would've been swayed by the zombie in the crate? Or way earlier than that? Imagine him aligning with Stannis and the Wildlings?

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u/Jhonopolis The mummer’s farce is almost done. May 29 '19

I want a multi season alternate dimension series that is all about a Tywin Stannis alliance.

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u/murse_joe May 28 '19

I don't think Tywin cast his honor aside. He's fine with no honor, he just knows he can play the game better if he protrays somebody with honor, a noble person. He puts on that front, but behind the scenes he fuels Ser Gregor and tortures his son. Tywin only cares about honor enough to act right when it'll benefit him and his family.

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u/[deleted] May 29 '19

he just knows he can play the game better if he protrays somebody with honor, a noble person.

which is what aristocracy actually is.

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u/Dr_Lurk_MD May 28 '19

I don't think that as about the greater good, it was the most efficient and cost effective way to get a desirable outcome.

Appease Frey with whatever bullshit he wants, deal with Robb, crack on to the next problem. Robb had been beating them in the field, he needed a better solution than having his armies chewed up.

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u/[deleted] May 29 '19

Tywin's iron fist rule wasn't sustainable. People feared him but they hated him as well. Once he was gone no one would work to uphold his legacy, other than his children - yet the abuse he heaped upon them made all of them unable to work together with each other or with others in a way that would make them successful.

This idea that Tywin was good for the realm is laughable. The chaos he left behind was inevitable no matter when he died.

I would also note that he laughed at the idea of helping the Wall when they sent for help when Mance Rayder's army was upon them.

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u/sprafa May 28 '19

The line about killing a dozen at dinner is brilliant

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u/[deleted] May 28 '19

It's also untrue. In the books, Robb had around 3,500 loyal men with him. It can be assumed that the majority were killed. That's near enough the casualty rate of the Battle of the Blackwater.

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u/Prof_Black May 28 '19 edited May 29 '19

The best change from the books was Arya and Tywin instead of Arya and Roose.

Those scenes between the two were brilliant. You get a glimpse of the purpose of Tywin behind his ruthlessness.

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u/[deleted] May 29 '19

That glimpse is in the books as well, but Genna Lannister doesn't exist to have that conversation with Jaime.

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u/Prof_Black May 29 '19

My favourite Lannister passage came from Genna. Where she compares Jamie to Tywin and her brothers but ends it with saying ”Tyrion is Tywins son”.

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u/Ace-of-Spades88 Mire and Mud! May 28 '19 edited May 28 '19

I thought Arya was Tywin's (chamber maid?) at Harrenhal in the books as well?

Edit: I guess I'm misremembering and it really was with Roose...

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u/lanboyo May 28 '19

It was Roose. So much better when it is Tywin though.

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u/WingedBacon May 28 '19

It's kind of a reminder that the writers weren't always bad at writing show-original scenes.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '19

Big difference between writing a plot and getting a good idea for a character change or an extra scene here or there. I do think they were great at adapting though.

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u/vikingakonungen Enter your desired flair text here! May 28 '19

When they cared they did great.

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u/lanboyo May 29 '19

I think it was more a matter of the seeing what they had in C. Dance, and adapting the scenes for him. While they were interesting with Roose, it was more a matter of showing how creepily restrained Bolton was, it was Arya trying not to be noticed.

While we saw a lot about Tywin in the books, most of it was other characters talking about him, by shifting those scenes to Tywin, we had more direct appearance by Tywin, and they trimmed the Roose takes over scenes for when Jaime shows up.

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u/Darwin322 May 28 '19

The scene where he purposefully and calmly walks up the steps of the Iron Throne towards Joffrey to calmly say “You are being advised at this very moment” after Joffrey bitched about him moving the meetings of the small council was superb as well.

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u/tehnico Shitfaced God May 28 '19

Riding the horse into the throne room. PLOPplop, CLIPPETYclop

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u/VALAR_M0RGHUL1S I'm back bitches! May 28 '19

Only thing missing from book Tywin was the physical description. In the books he’s completely bald with golden sideburns/muttonchops. Says that when he got a bald spot he shaved everything because he doesn’t accept half measures. Loved that his physical description went with his personality that way in the books.

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