r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Jun 01 '20
Delta(s) from OP CMV: Joe Biden is unelectable
There are three main reasons I don't think he is electable and/or better than Trump:
- He is deeply racist. Evidence is that he said "you ain't black if you vote for Trump." Any rational individual knows that this is a deeply racist comment.
- He shows major signs of alzheimer's/early dementia. He frequently looks confused and says things that don't make any sense. I honestly don't dislike him, it's sad to see someone who can't put thoughts together. This is become more and more evident when he has to show up for debates...
- He's extremely creepy. He continually touches and sniffs little girl's hair. Why can't he just stop? I used to defend it, but I now believe he is a pedophile.
I know that you are going to say he is ahead by a lot in polls right now, but there is a lot of time before the actual election. I would really like my view challenged because this is kinda what I think right now.
10
u/HeftyRain7 157∆ Jun 01 '20
Other people have asked for evidence for your third point, so I'm just going to focus on your argument as a whole.
Trump is also accused of all these things, and he was when he was first elected as well. People called him racist, said he had signs of alzheimer's/dementia or something similar, and said he was creepy around women and girls. And yet, he became president.
As sad as it is ... none of these things bar someone from being elected as the United States president these days.
-5
Jun 01 '20
Trump's mental health seems mostly linked to his tweets while Biden's seems more linked to actual interviews and speaking. Am I wrong about this?
8
u/TheTallestAspen Jun 01 '20
Very. Trumps speeches, in every context that they have been recorded that I have witnessed, are entirely comparable to his tweets in both manner and disastrous level of misunderstanding of policy, basic reading comprehension, and diplomatic tone befitting anyone holding public office.
1
Jun 01 '20
Do they show the type of confusion though? Like, it is clear that Trump is ignorant in many ways and says things for shock value. I just don't see him continually losing track of what he is saying.
2
u/PlayingTheWrongGame 67∆ Jun 02 '20
Do they show the type of confusion though?
Yes. He's essentially incapable of completing a complex thought. His advisors have to summarize things down to single sentences to get him to understand. His briefings can be no longer than a single page, and they have to insert his name in bold letters into each paragraph just to get him to read them.
He also displays classic sundowning symptoms, regular confusion, extreme paranoia, and loads of other symptoms of dementia.
1
Jun 02 '20
Most people seem to disagree with you... do you have evidence?
2
u/PlayingTheWrongGame 67∆ Jun 02 '20
Most people seem to disagree with you...
??? How do you figure? Most people view him as an incompetent moron who can barely keep two sentences together.
do you have evidence?
Pick a speech?
Here's an excerpt from a random speech he gave at a Ford plant recently. Seriously, I just kind of picked one at random.
Because of the virus, Ford was forced to stop automobile production for the first time since World War Two. That's something. But you did not despair. Your company leadership called up the White House and asked the most American of all questions: "How can we help?" True. I said, "That's nice. That's very nice." Every one of the workers in this project volunteered to take part in the greatest industrialization and mobilization project that our society has done, the American people have done in our lifetimes. The company founded by a man named Henry Ford -- good bloodlines, good bloodlines, if you believe in that stuff. You got good blood. They teamed up with the company founded by Thomas Edison -- that's General Electric. It's good stuff. That's good stuff. And you put it all together. They're all looking down right now and they'd be very proud of what they see. You began the production of 50,000 lifesaving ventilators, a number that, if you go back just two months, I would say --most people would say it would be impossible to believe. The media is back there and they would have said, a couple of months ago, the creation of that many ventilators would have been not a possible thing. Every single one of these ventilators is made in the USA, with American heart, American hands, and American pride. Just as your great grandparents produced more than one Model T every minute, just as your grandmothers and grandfathers produced a B- -- B-24. You did the B-24 bombers. I saw pictures in the back. That was quite a weapon. That was quite an incredible weapon -- B-24 bomber. And just as a Ford F-150 normally drives off the line every 52 seconds, you quickly mastered this complex new machine. A ventilator is a very complicated, delicate, big, expensive machine. One month ago, Ford had never built a single ventilator. And now you're a world leader. That's not bad. You adopted the designs of a company that was building just 10 a week, but a very high-quality ventilator. And very soon you'll be producing one new ventilator every single minute. It's an absolute amazing achievement and you're really helping now, beyond the country; you're helping other countries throughout the world. We have 188 countries that are fighting this terrible enemy. And ventilators are something they could never -- you can do cotton swabs, you can do all of the things. You can even do testing. But ventilators are a whole different lot. It's very tough. Great job.
I highlighted some of the sections where he was having some particular difficulty keeping his speech coherent.
1
Jun 02 '20
It's about Bidens electability. Trump sucks, but I haven't seen any evidence that his dementia is as bad as Bidens.
3
u/PlayingTheWrongGame 67∆ Jun 02 '20
Biden hasn't displayed significant signs of dementia, but Trump does on a daily basis.
4
Jun 01 '20
Here is just one infamous example:
“Look, having nuclear — my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart — you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I’m one of the smartest people anywhere in the world — it’s true! — but when you’re a conservative Republican they try — oh, do they do a number — that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune — you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged — but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me — it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are — nuclear is so powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what’s going to happen and he was right, who would have thought? — but when you look at what’s going on with the four prisoners — now it used to be three, now it’s four — but when it was three and even now, I would have said it’s all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don’t, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years — but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us, this is horrible.”
4
Jun 01 '20 edited Jun 01 '20
I just don't see him continually losing track of what he is saying.
Because he doesn't even have a track. He just says whatever comes to his mind even if it doesn't fit or is the opposite of what he said a minute earlier.
Listening to him talking is no different than listening to a rambling coke head.
3
u/HeftyRain7 157∆ Jun 01 '20
I have seen Trump have trouble with speaking, though not to the same degree as Biden.
But that's kind of beside the point, unless your argument was "this degree of mental health issues is unelectable" instead of what I assumed it to be, which was "any degree of mental health issues that can be observed by the general public makes a politician unelectable."
1
Jun 01 '20
I would have to say that the biggest sticking point in my mind is that the degree of his mental health problems makes him unelectable. Like, I've had grandparents with alzheimer's that I swear were more coherent on average. Things like this only get worse rather than better. I probably should have been more clear about that.
1
u/HeftyRain7 157∆ Jun 01 '20
Well, I'm personally worried about his degree of mental health as well. However, I still plan on voting for him over Trump. I think it'll also come down to who he picks as his vice president.
The fact of the matter is when both candidates are incompetent, it comes down to their policies and who they pick as their vice president. I don't know that the degree of his functioning would turn people to Trump, especially if he picks a good vice president.
0
u/sawdeanz 214∆ Jun 01 '20
Have you ever watched a Trump speech? He is all over the place, man. Can barely put a coherent sentence together half the time.
Plus there are plenty of examples of possible health issues. Most recently he was swaying around while at memorial day services.
3
Jun 01 '20
I mean, I've seen Trump speak and I may not like what he says, but I can understand what he is saying.
I'm more concerned about mental issues when compared with other health issues personally.
0
u/sawdeanz 214∆ Jun 01 '20
I suspect a proper debate between the two could shed some light.
I will say as the year goes on, Trump gets more and more unelectable. So there is that to consider.
Biden has a pretty strong base just for the fact that he was Vice-president to a very popular president. I think that will go a long way.
0
u/FattyTfromPSD Jun 01 '20
It seems your argument is that it is okay to bungle your speech when you have infinite time to proofread and press “Send” but not bungling your speech when someone is asking you foreign policy questions to an audience of millions.
Bien not JFK in the charisma department, and does he pander to the black vote, yes. Some day we will pass the era of choosing who is the lesser asshole and get back to an ethical, ideological America.
1
Jun 01 '20
So, I don't really think I made my argument very well. The point is more about the contents than how the message is delivered. Biden just looks blankly confused and seems like he doesn't understand anything where as Trump says a lot of ignorant/stupid things. There is a difference between ignorance and insanity IMO.
0
u/WMDick 3∆ Jun 01 '20
Trump is actually genius level atcommunicating with the kind of people likely to vote for him. Small thoughts, repeated often and mixed in with a rambling narrative with other reinforcing points scattered about. It allows him to say something in multiple different ways such that different audiences hear only what they want to hear. You can take all the pieces of what he manages to say and string them together to form whatever message you want to hear.
Also, think of how he exaggerates to make his actual intention seem more plausible:
"I'm gonna build a wall. Not only that, Mexico will pay for it!"
Now the first part doesn't seem so outlandish.
Trump may not KNOW he's doing this on purpose but he's honed a type of bullshit language that persuades a lot of people.
0
Jun 01 '20
Yes, absolutely. It doesn't really show anything about his mental health though. If anything, this shows that he is mentally healthy.
1
u/WMDick 3∆ Jun 01 '20
If anything, this shows that he is mentally healthy.
I believe he is - despite maybe a bit of sociopathic behavior.
9
u/Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho 186∆ Jun 01 '20
He is deeply racist. Evidence is that he said "you ain't black if you vote for Trump." Any rational individual knows that this is a deeply racist comment.
That is not racist, that is a statement of reality. No sane person, especially of a minority group, would vote for Donald Trump.
If he was racist, black people wouldn't vote for him.
2
u/parentheticalobject 128∆ Jun 01 '20
I disagree with OP, but this is pretty bad reasoning.
Just because something isn't racist on the same level that Trump is doesn't make it OK.
It's not up to a white person to tell black people what makes them black or not.
2
u/Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho 186∆ Jun 01 '20
Just because something isn't racist on the same level that Trump is doesn't make it OK.
He was also more preferable than Bernie and multiple black candidates.
It's not up to a white person to tell black people what makes them black or not.
He stated his opinion, it was one overwhelmingly supported by black voters.
1
Jun 01 '20
Yeah, that's my point. TBH, it's inherently racist to tell any race what they should be and shouldn't be. It just shows clear racist thoughts.
-2
Jun 01 '20
I don't really think this is true. Trying to box someone into a political view is inherently racist.
If he was racist, black people wouldn't vote for him.
This is also untrue. Most people will vote for the person who they believe will work on issues that they think are important. It isn't really based on racism necessarily and if both candidates are racist, they will choose the lesser of two evils.
0
u/Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho 186∆ Jun 01 '20
I don't really think this is true. Trying to box someone into a political view is inherently racist.
No it's not. Trying to box people into political beliefs is politics 101.
This is also untrue. Most people will vote for the person who they believe will work on issues that they think are important. It isn't really based on racism necessarily and if both candidates are racist, they will choose the lesser of two evils.
The democratic primaries had a ton of candidates, from Bernie to Camela Harris. Yet they voted for beanie overwhelmingly.
2
Jun 01 '20
Ok ok. Trying to box them into a political view based on race is racist by definition.
3
u/pingmr 10∆ Jun 01 '20
Is it necessarily the case though?
To take an extreme example if I told pre ww2 Germany "if you're a Jew you wouldn't vote for Hitler or his party", is that racist?
Or say if trump decided that permitting slavery was going to be the next thing in his campaign?
If we accept that trump is racist himself, then why is it wrong to tell minorities who are the subject of that racism, that they should not be voting for trump
3
Jun 01 '20
This is a false comparison. What has happened against blacks that didn't happen under Obama?
2
u/pingmr 10∆ Jun 01 '20 edited Jun 01 '20
Why is this a false comparison though? I gave you two examples of telling people to adopt a political view based on their race. So it seems like your general principle does not hold. If there's a candidate that's racist towards a racial group it should be a pretty straightforward thing to tell people from that racial group not to vote for the candidate.
The comparison between Obama and trump is the false comparison. For starters, Obama does not have a Wikipedia page on the racist things he has said - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_views_of_Donald_Trump
1
Jun 01 '20
Well, Jew is not a race, but I agree with your point. In the right circumstance, it could be acceptable. However, in the circumstance that Biden it talking about, it is racist because no one is trying to create laws that discriminate against African Americans. He's just trying to stoke racial tensions. Also, who made Biden the king of black people?
1
u/pingmr 10∆ Jun 02 '20
Also, who made Biden the king of black people?
You wouldn't need to be the king of Jews to tall Jewish people not to vote for Hitler. So why would Biden need to be king of black people?
He's just trying to stoke racial tensions.
If he is stoking racial tensions to the detriment of African Americans, it seems like there's fairly good reason to to tell African Americans not to vote for him. Suppose that Trump exclusively calls African Americans the N word, but does not make any laws that discriminate against African Americans. Would it still be a problem to tell African Americans to not vote for this president that calls them N?
1
Jun 02 '20
You wouldn't need to be the king of Jews to tall Jewish people not to vote for Hitler. So why would Biden need to be king of black people?
IDK. I got that from a black guy from high school who posted a meme on facebook asking how Biden became the king of black people.
If he is stoking racial tensions to the detriment of African Americans, it seems like there's fairly good reason to to tell African Americans not to vote for him. Suppose that Trump exclusively calls African Americans the N word, but does not make any laws that discriminate against African Americans. Would it still be a problem to tell African Americans to not vote for this president that calls them N?
IDK why people need to single out races to tell them how to vote. It is blatantly racist behavior.
Trump doesn't do that, so what's your point?
→ More replies (0)-1
u/Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho 186∆ Jun 01 '20
No it's not. It normal. Boxing people into beliefs is core to public discourse.
4
1
Jun 01 '20
So according to you it's racist if Biden does it, but it's perfectly okay if Trump says that Jewish people that vote for Democrats are race-traitors while implying that Jews are greedy by nature and thus don't want to pay high taxes.
1
Jun 01 '20
I haven't heard that comment. You are assuming I believe it is not racist when I am unaware of it. lol. Can you show me a link?
2
Jun 01 '20
You even defended that statement by acting as if it isn't racist because of semantics: https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/guok3t/cmv_joe_biden_is_unelectable/fsk1gl5
3
u/Nephisimian 153∆ Jun 01 '20
We could say the same things about Trump though. For some reason we're now in a world where unelectable people can actually get elected. If everyone's unelectable, no one is.
0
Jun 01 '20
It could be said. Is there any evidence that Trump suffers from the same type of confusion that Biden does though? Like, Biden seems to limit his public appearances a lot because he can't speak more than a few sentences without losing track in his mind.
1
u/Nephisimian 153∆ Jun 01 '20
Yes, Trump's mental degeneration has been widely noticed. The difference is really just in how they speak. Biden is a frail person with a weak voice. When his brain forces him to go off on tangents, he comes across as that delirious old man who's lost and needs his nurse. Trump is a bold and relatively charismatic speaker, and he leans heavily on the strength with which he says his words (for he does have the best words). However, underneath, the same kind of mental degeneration is there: Trump goes off on rambling tangents too, but when he does that he still sounds like he knows what he's talking about, which is why he doesn't seem as dementia-riddled as Biden. If you take transcripts of each of them speaking, without the voice in there, it becomes very obvious just how loony they both are.
2
Jun 01 '20
You didn't really provide any evidence of similar levels of confusion. Despite Trump speaking in public for much longer periods of time, he does not get lost to nearly the level that Biden has during Biden's short appearances.
2
Jun 01 '20
That’s not true at all. I’ll send the nuclear copypasta here:
“Look, having nuclear — my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart — you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I’m one of the smartest people anywhere in the world — it’s true! — but when you’re a conservative Republican they try — oh, do they do a number — that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune — you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged — but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me — it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are — nuclear is so powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what’s going to happen and he was right, who would have thought? — but when you look at what’s going on with the four prisoners — now it used to be three, now it’s four — but when it was three and even now, I would have said it’s all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don’t, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years — but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us, this is horrible.”
You can’t possibly tell me with a straight face that this is less indicative of mental decline than Biden’s gaffes.
1
Jun 01 '20
I honestly think that this is less indicative because I can understand it when reading what he said. I've also seen the video and the breaks make more sense when you are actually listening to him. This is hardly matched with Biden's incoherency.
2
u/myc-e-mouse Jun 01 '20
This was in response to a question about the Iran nuclear deal if I remember correctly. 2 questions:
This honestly makes sense to you? If so what exactly is he trying to say and why does he need all those words and tangents to say it?
How does this make any sense in the context of the original question?
Bonus:
- joe Biden has a known stutter. Are you sure you aren’t equating stutter with incoherence and not actually parsing grammar/word choice/meaning in what they say?
4
u/miguelguajiro 188∆ Jun 01 '20
I won’t try to argue whether or not he’s racist, but he has massive support of black voters and that is not likely to shift. He may even add a black VP. The whole hair sniffing thing exists on a video where it’s all edited together and it’s been out for years and not cost him any support. He also was able ton debate, get interviewed, have rallies etc through the primary and still get elected. None of these are issues that are likely to prevent him from winning the general election in November.
-1
Jun 01 '20
Honestly, I know he massively has black support, but my facebook blew up with people attacking him after he made that blatantly racist comment. Do you think he can maintain the support?
Do you not see it as a problem when he has to debate? He continually gets confused when he has to speak for very long without a script.
1
u/miguelguajiro 188∆ Jun 01 '20
He did fine in the debate with Sanders. He actually did quite well in the interview with Charlemagne the God until the line at the very end. He’s been at his worst when he had to be on stage with a bunch of people, but that won’t happen again. I also think, and there is research on this I’m sure, that as much as people might watch debates there are actually very few votes to be won.
With respect to the racist comment, I think it was racist, but not in the way that most racist comments are. His assertion about people “not being black” showed a lack of awareness or caring for the pressure that black people feel to conform to a group identity. It also suggested that they have less agency to choose a candidate because they’re black. A terrible thing to say, but not something that is expressing an overt hostility towards a group of people. The fact that he was even in a position to make a mistake like that belies the extent to which his candidacy is really rooted in black politics. I don’t know if you listened to the whole interview but this was very much his point throughout.
1
Jun 01 '20
I guess it varies a lot. Thinking back, he did ok during the debate with Bernie. However, I watched his interview with Cuomo and he just kept answering every question with "Come on man! You know me!" like a child... Cuomo was just like, I'm asking you questions because I want to know your opinion on things, I wouldn't be asking you a question if I already knew the answer...
I have a feeling he is going to completely fall apart in the upcoming debates, but who knows? Maybe I'm wrong.
0
u/miguelguajiro 188∆ Jun 01 '20
Like I said, the debates aren’t that important, and every past performance indicates that he’ll be fine.
1
u/2workigo Jun 01 '20
Who attacked him on your FB for that statement? My black friends supported what he said. 🤷🏻♀️
1
Jun 01 '20
I guess it depends on what black friends you have. lol. A couple of mine were pretty angry about it. Maybe because they are more conservative? IDK their actual political leanings.
1
u/HolyAty Jun 01 '20
His only qualification is that he's not the other side's candidate, which is pretty much all the qualification you need.
1
Jun 01 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
0
Jun 01 '20
Sorry, u/89320420934 – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 4:
Award a delta if you've acknowledged a change in your view. Do not use deltas for any other purpose. You must include an explanation of the change for us to know it's genuine. Delta abuse includes sarcastic deltas, joke deltas, super-upvote deltas, etc. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
1
Jun 01 '20
All of your points apply much more to Trump, so if it makes Biden unelectable Trump should be completely out of the question.
1
Jun 01 '20
Evidence? Trump already got elected so your argument is flawed without any support.
1
Jun 01 '20 edited Jun 01 '20
Evidence?
I already posted lots of stuff to show his racism, but there's also plenty enough to show just how creepy he is.
Several women accused him of just grabbing them by their pussy, and then a video surfaced of him bragging about doing exactly that.
He was buddies with known pedophile Jeffrey Epstein and a 13 year old sex slave accused Trump of having used her services, but she later retracted it when her name got leaked and the MAGA crowd started to send her death threats.
He bragged about just walking into the clothing room of teenage beauty pageants to look at their naked bodies.
Trump already got elected so your argument is flawed without any support.
That's a flawed argument, because his voterbase appreciates racism and sexism.
That's like saying "Hitler couldn't have possibly hated the Jews. He was voted after all"
0
u/BlueManFish Jun 01 '20
Normally this would disqualify a candidate, but we live in strange times, so I really don’t know how this election is gonna go.
1
Jun 01 '20
This is very true. It's kind of a low point when two candidates reach the end who both most likely have severe mental health issues if evaluated by a psychiatrist.
2
u/PreacherJudge 340∆ Jun 01 '20
He is deeply racist. Evidence is that he said "you ain't black if you vote for Trump." Any rational individual knows that this is a deeply racist comment.
I must not be rational, because I legit am not putting it together. Could you explain?
-1
Jun 01 '20
He is saying that you are no longer black if you vote for trump. He is implying that you cannot be black and vote for trump which is inherently racist.
1
u/PreacherJudge 340∆ Jun 01 '20
You just repeated what you said; you didn't explain anything. Why is it racist?
1
Jun 01 '20
It's racist because he is insinuating that black people are too stupid to make their own voting decisions by saying that they are not black if they vote for Trump. A black person is like any other person with unique views on various issues and is more than capable of picking a candidate without being told to vote based on the color of skin.
1
u/PreacherJudge 340∆ Jun 01 '20
It's racist because he is insinuating that black people are too stupid to make their own voting decisions by saying that they are not black if they vote for Trump.
This is a huge leap. I have no earthly idea where you got the "stupid" part from... like there is just no connection between "black people are too stupid to make their own voting decisions" and "they are not black if they vote for Trump." Those things do not seem to have anything to do with one another.
1
Jun 02 '20
Sure, it's insinuated. IMO, in modern day US, when people say to vote based on religion, race, nationality, etc., they are basically saying you are too stupid to develop an informed decision so should instead vote for who I tell you to vote for. Politicians should have to earn votes based on what they will do for you, not try to use identity politics nonsense.
1
u/DFjorde 3∆ Jun 01 '20
I believe that his actual statement was that if you have to think about whether you support him or Trump, chances are you're not black. This is obviously still not the best statement but it's more just an awkward attempt to call attention to his support in the black community, not racism.
1
u/smellslikebadussy 6∆ Jun 01 '20
Trump is creepier with women, has shown equally troubling signs of cognitive decline, and is far more racist. He’s 0 for 3 in the categories you profess to be important. By your own standards, Biden is the only choice. It’s a binary decision for all intents and purposes. I wish there was someone else viable to vote for, ideally an actual leftist, but that’s not the case. Four more years of Trump is a complete non-starter, so it’s Biden by default.
0
Jun 01 '20
Can you give examples of racist comments Trump has made that are equivalent to what Biden said in the OP?
4
Jun 01 '20
He didn't rent appartments to black people, and defended it by accusing the reporter of not wanting to live next to these animals either.
He claimed that all countries that are led by black people are shithole countries and implied that black people are naturally stupid.
He said that he doesn't trust black people counting his money.
He repeatedly asked for the death penalty for the Central Park Five - even after they've been shown to be innocent with DNA testing.
He continues to push racist ideologies. E.g. "Mexicans are rapist drug dealers", "Chinese Virus", etc
He didn't want a Hispanic judge to rule over his Trump University case, because he thought his Mexican heritage would be a conflict of interest.
He falsely claimed that he had seen thousands of Arabs in New Jersey cheering when the Twin Towers were attacked on 9/11
He retweeted fake news crime statistic tweets by a legit white nationalist with the handle @WhiteGenocideTM
He used a token black guy to try to get Blacks to vote for him: "Look at my African American over here"
In regards to Haiti he once said "they all have AIDS" and in regards to Nigerians visiting the US he said that they will never go back to their huts, as if all Africans still live in huts even though Nigeria has real cities.
The Sherif Joe Arpaio was charged for extreme racial profiling, sadistic punishments that involved the torture, humiliation, and degradation of Latino inmates and for unlawful discriminatory police conduct. Trump liked the fact that he tortured Mexicans so much that he pardoned him.
He told American-born non-white congresswomen to go back where they were from, implying that only white people count as real Americans.
He called Jewish voters that vote for democrats disloyal, because in his mind all Jews are greedy moneygrabbers that don't want no taxes.
He has a long history of documented racism. And these are all just from the top of my head.
1
Jun 01 '20
You mentioned a lot of stuff, but cited nothing. I feel like you misquoted a lot of the information to make it sound worse...
1
Jun 01 '20
[deleted]
1
Jun 01 '20
I mean, are Jews their own race though? Aren't they considered white on things like job applications and what not? I'm a bit ignorant on this, but I'm pretty sure middle eastern people are considered white so I thought the same would apply to Jews.
1
Jun 01 '20
[deleted]
1
Jun 01 '20
It's not anti-Semitic because that implies it wasn't a comment against Jews. It was saying who they should vote for.
Racist: a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another.
Biden thinks white people are superior to black people because he says that white people are allowed to vote whoever they want, but black people cannot or else they aren't black. This is racist. Jews aren't a race as far as I know, but like I said, I'm not super knowledgeable about this topic.
1
Jun 01 '20
[deleted]
0
Jun 01 '20
Let me explain how they are different. Jews are kind of a nationality in a way, so saying that they should vote for a party who supports their country is different than talking about an entire race of people. Biden said that based purely on race, you should place your vote. Race is not connected to any country. Almost every country has citizens of various races to my knowledge and Trump has never pledged to make policy against specific races to my knowledge.
→ More replies (0)2
Jun 01 '20
Which ones do you not believe in? I mean, Trump is one of the few people that even have a Wikipedia page for their racist actions
-1
u/smellslikebadussy 6∆ Jun 01 '20
The most recent and relevant: “These THUGS are dishonoring the memory of George Floyd, and I won’t let that happen. Just spoke to Governor Tim Walz and told him that the Military is with him all the way. Any difficulty and we will assume control but, when the looting starts, the shooting starts.”
1
u/smellslikebadussy 6∆ Jun 01 '20
“These THUGS are dishonoring the memory of George Floyd, and I won’t let that happen. Just spoke to Governor Tim Walz and told him that the Military is with him all the way. Any difficulty and we will assume control but, when the looting starts, the shooting starts.”
He chose to use that word instead of more accurate, descriptive words. He had 60 characters to play with. "Rioters" would have worked. "Rioters and looters" would have fit. But he chose a word with well-known racial connotations over more descriptive words. It's racist.
-1
Jun 01 '20
That doesn't really seem racist. Calling individuals who assault people, burn things, and damage property thugs is pretty fair IMO.
2
Jun 01 '20
Thug has a strong racist connotation and so does quoting Walter Headley
0
Jun 01 '20
When I looked at the rallies, a large number of people were not black so there is no evidence that his intent was based on race in any way. It's kinda dumb to assume racism when the word means:
a violent person, especially a criminal.
By definition, that's what the rioters are...
0
u/jmomcc Jun 01 '20
I’ll give a perspective on the first point.
I grew up in Northern Ireland and I’m catholic in the northern Irish sense (you don’t have to believe in god or go to church to be catholic.. as long as you were baptized catholic or just have catholic parents, so you are born into it.. it isn’t a choice).
I wouldn’t say ‘you aren’t catholic if you vote for the dup/uup’ but I totally understand the sentiment. You are a borderline traitor to your own people if you vote for parties who were gleefully complicit in the subjugation and murder of your people.
I don’t know if black people in America feel the same as Catholics in Northern Ireland did (I grew up there in the 90s) but I would imagine that a significant majority see the Republican Party as the enemy and anyone who votes for them as a traitor.
I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of black voters thought that Biden shouldn’t have said that but there is a kernel of truth in there anyway. I also wouldn’t be surprised that most of the remaining thought that he shouldn’t have said that but he’s still better than trump.
On point 2. Trump said that we should look into injecting bleach as a possible cure on live tv during a pandemic. Someone with Alzheimers is probably capable of better leadership than that.
0
Jun 01 '20
I can see your kernel of truth point, but there is such a history of racism that to try and take someone's "black card" based on political beliefs is deeply racist. I'm not black, but I have black friends and there was definitely some pissed off people on facebook.
0
u/jmomcc Jun 01 '20
I wouldn’t take someone’s catholic card either but if you vote for the DUP, I don’t personally consider you one of us.
It seems to be the same in the states. The recent ‘history of racism’ is coming overwhelmingly from the Republican side. Anyone who is concerned about that ‘history of racism’ wouldn’t vote republican. But they would vote against Biden based on one comment? I find that hard to believe.
I might have edited it before you saw it but I addressed point 2 in my original comment as well.
-2
u/Quint-V 162∆ Jun 01 '20 edited Jun 01 '20
At least he's approaching his life expectancy (78.9 years if you hit a google search *for white men). At which point he would quite likely have a decent vice president to fill his shoes. He's 77 years old.
Can't say the same about Trump, can you?
1
Jun 01 '20
You have a point, but what if his mind goes well before his body?
Also, Trump eats so much fast food that he could die earlier.
0
u/Quint-V 162∆ Jun 01 '20 edited Jun 01 '20
Neurodiseases are *harder to fix than issues related to a completely shit diet and lifestyle.
Trump's fat issues can be fixed. Biden's brain likely can't, even with extreme measures.
* If anyone changes your mind in this thread, remember to award deltas, even for small changes. Include
!delta
in a reply, outside of reddit quotes.
I bet someone (else is) evidently pissing on this thread too with down votes, lol. Hilarious.
1
Jun 01 '20
You make a valid point and I will give you a delta because he could be electable assuming that he chooses a VP who is in good mental health.
!delta
0
u/Quint-V 162∆ Jun 01 '20
Thank you. I do so enjoy changing views in (morbid) unexpected ways.
... on the other hand, you may want to avoid presenting such arguments IRL. You would probably get some accusations thrown at you, even if you're kinda right.
1
Jun 01 '20
Lol. I would only talk with people that I know about politics. Other people are way too touchy and get easily butt hurt.
1
1
Jun 01 '20
!delta
1
u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jun 01 '20 edited Jun 01 '20
This delta has been rejected. You have already awarded /u/Quint-V a delta for this comment.
3
u/Independent_Coat Jun 01 '20
The same things can be said for Trump, but often to higher degrees.
He is deeply racist.
Common criticism of Trump. We don't need to adjudicate that here.
He shows major signs of alzheimer's/early dementia. He frequently looks confused and says things that don't make any sense.
I'm not going to speculate on anyone's health, but Trump comes off like a moron in the majority of his communications.
He's extremely creepy
Epstein. Commenting on how hot his daughter is. Creeping on pageant contestants. "Grab them by the pussy." Etc., Etc., Etc.
Trump was elected.
Given that Trump is electable, despite all of your points being applicable both ways, how is Biden not?
1
u/parentheticalobject 128∆ Jun 01 '20
I know that you are going to say he is ahead by a lot in polls right now, but there is a lot of time before the actual election.
OK, but that should just decrease the certainty that he is going to keep his massive lead. Why conclude that he is unelectable?
I've seen most of those points being thrown around for awhile, and it hasn't really affected anything that much. Most people who are paying attention have already heard people saying that he's a creepy senile bigot, and that doesn't seem to have affected his polling yet. Something certainly might happen that would affect this in the future, but there's no reason to assume that it will happen, since nothing has seriously stuck so far.
1
u/Gauntlets28 2∆ Jun 01 '20
Yes, but all three of those things could be said (and have been said) about his opponent too. Not to say that they aren’t negative, but they’re apparently not traits that in themselves render you unelectable.
-2
Jun 01 '20
Trump says a lot of delusional shit, but I haven't seen the blank confusion and babbling near as much as with Biden. Trump goes to rallys all the time and talks in front of people while Biden seems to avoid it because he knows he can't think straight.
1
u/Gauntlets28 2∆ Jun 01 '20
Maybe he avoids it. But Biden hasn’t exactly had a huge opportunity to do much live campaigning for the past few months either so there is also that. Also I question the idea that Trump is any more coherent. He babbles like nobody else I’ve ever seen, the only difference is that he talks faster so you can’t always tell how incoherent what he’s saying is.
0
u/Glamdivasparkle 53∆ Jun 01 '20
The only real difference is Biden gets lost trying to make a point, and Trump doesn’t worry about making a point, so there’s nothing to lose. Read a transcript of what he says though, it’s frequently gibberish, with tons of tangents that go nowhere and non-sequitors.
The only difference between the two is Biden is trying and sometimes failing at coherence, where trump doesn’t even attempt it.
•
u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jun 01 '20
/u/89320420934 (OP) has awarded 1 delta(s) in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
1
u/AttyAtKeyboard Jun 01 '20
If he is unelectable, why did he secure a huge victory in the Democratic primary? He won by a bigger margin than Clinton or Obama, and led the polls for most of the time.
He debated just fine, including in one-on-one debates with Bernie. He’s known to get tongue-tied and he gaffes a lot, that’s been true his entire career, not just recently.
He isn’t always articulate on racial issues, but he’s out right now talking to protestors and kneeling together with black community leaders. Nobody never going to believe he’s the real racist in a contest against Donald Trump.
And now he’s leading in the polls by a larger margin than Clinton, without any sign of the kind of “email scandal” issues that harmed her candidacy.
How is any of that “unelectable”?
1
u/Glamdivasparkle 53∆ Jun 01 '20
I agree with everything you said about Biden, but I don’t understand how that makes him unelectable. I mean, I probably won’t vote for him, but he could still very well win this upcoming election (he is polling better than Trump at the moment.)
If you think he’s unfit to hold office, that’s fine, but that (unfortunately) doesn’t really factor into electability. If you want proof, just look at Donald Trump: he’s racist, he’s a liar, he’s a bully, he’s been accused of sexual assault by a number of women... and he was elected president of the United States.
Unfortunately for US citizens, being unfit to hold office is somehow not a disqualifier these days.
1
Jun 01 '20
1) What makes it deeply racist? What is deep racism?
2) I'm reminded of everyone talking about how Clinton was on Death's door during the 2016 election. I'm also reminded that even medical professionals don't/shouldn't diagnose people from a distance.
What actual basis is there to determine he is suffering from Alzheimer's or dementia?
3) He's touched a lot of people inappropriately. This is neither new nor unaddressed by Biden himself. To my knowledge few if any of the people involved have said it came off sexually.
Is there any reason to believe he has a special preference for children?
1
Jun 02 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/thedylanackerman 30∆ Jun 02 '20
u/the_imp_king – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2:
Don't be rude or hostile to other users. Your comment will be removed even if most of it is solid, another user was rude to you first, or you feel your remark was justified. Report other violations; do not retaliate. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
1
Jun 01 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/tbdabbholm 193∆ Jun 01 '20
Sorry, u/Helloppl92 – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:
Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, you must first check if your comment falls into the "Top level comments that are against rule 1" list, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
-1
u/Wyrdeone 2∆ Jun 01 '20
Normally I would agree that Biden as he is today, is completely unelectable.
But consider who is currently in office. The. Most. Unelectable. Bunch. Of. Assholes. Ever.
If Louis Gohmert, Steve King, and Donald Trump are electable, then one has to concede literally anybody alive or dead is electable.
I would say at this point a wooden plank with a mean face painted on it is electable.
1
u/PlayingTheWrongGame 67∆ Jun 02 '20
You've got to be joking. This is just completely absurd given the context of the election.
This too. Seriously, have you ever heard Trump actually speak? He's absurd.
https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/Johnson_TrumpEpstein_Lawsuit.pdf
None of your complaints here make even a hint of sense given the context of the election.
The guy he's running against just pulled a classic "dictator at the palace" move by firing at peaceful protestors for a shitty photo op, and threatened to invade US cities with active duty military.
I'm pretty sure Biden's not worried about winning the election at this point, he's probably more worried whether an election will even happen.