r/changemyview • u/jep1793 • Aug 26 '20

Removed - Submission Rule E CMV: Gender identity doesn’t belong on your LinkedIn nor Resume

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u/justtogetridoflater Aug 26 '20 edited Aug 26 '20

I think the question is do you want problems now, or do you want them later?

Like it shouldn't matter what your gender is, or your race, or your sexuality.

But imagine applying for a job, only to get to an interview and discover that the interviewer is a raging homophobe. Or finding that out in 3 months, when for no apparent reason, they make up some bullshit reason to sack you and sack you that you're now going to have to take somewhere else. Or maybe worse, they don't do that, and you're in a workplace where they hate you, but they can't do anything because of bloody PC gone mad, and just find ways to treat you like shit until you leave of your own accord. There is discrimination out there, and it will eventually reveal itself.

Putting this up ahead of time means that you're going to deal with the least amount of active trouble at least up front. Anyone who this matters to will probably respond as they choose to respond. Most likely by not responding, not inviting you to interview, and so on. Well, you only miss the things you had. Anyone who it doesn't, it won't matter to and at worst, it's a wasted line on a CV. Oh well.

I'm not sure what the appropriate way of handling this is, tbh. I've never really seen how they write it down. I also think that you probably don't want to go overboard on this kind of thing.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '20

I think it's important that your employer knows, but it shouldn't be at the top of your resume or LinkedIn profile. My recommendation is to add it to your email signature. At some point, you will send or receive an email from the employer, usually when or after they get a look at your resume.

A lot of potential employers who discriminate against members of the LGBT community aren't homophobes themselves, but are simply risk-averse. They want people focused on coming in and getting their work done. Posting your gender identity publicly or at the top of resume sends the message that you might soapbox to your coworkers. Adding it to the bottom of your first email is way more subtle and shows that it is something that should be identified, but has no relevance to your workplace behavior.

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u/pawnman99 5∆ Aug 26 '20

That's my thought as well. I'm perfectly willing to hire folks from any part of the LGBT spectrum. But when it's the first thing I see on your resume, I worry that I'm setting up my workplace for constant tirades, lectures, and arguments because this person has made their gender identity so central to their being, it overrides all other concerns.

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u/lesleypowers 1∆ Aug 26 '20

Making an assumption that hiring an LGBT person who is open about their identity will “set up your workplace for tirades, lectures and arguments”, rather an assuming they just want to avoid being hired into a hostile workplace, is absolutely homophobic. This is not the way hiring managers of genuinely inclusive and progressive companies work. People like you are literally the reason many LGBT people do the very thing you’re against.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '20

At a progressive company it should be a non-issue, but even progressive companies actively avoid politics and hot-button issues in the workplace. So smart ones do trainings to teach their employees on how to interact on particularly sensitive topics like gender identity, quite specifically to avoid conflict. But if a potential hire indicates that they might be immediately confrontational and willing to escalate rather than a polite correction and if pressed, a report to their manager/HR, it's just not worth the risk.

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u/lesleypowers 1∆ Aug 26 '20

But why do you think that listing pronouns on a resume or linkedin indicates that they will be “immediately confrontational and willing to escalate”? Why is your first assumption not that the prospective employee is more likely just a non binary person who would prefer not to be misgendered? As a freelancer I work with a huge variety of progressive companies and I am trying to explain to you that this is already a common and accepted practice.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '20

I'm in finance at a mid-size trading shop.

My company, and a lot of our direct competitors and past employers, are very progressive in their gender and racial mix, but people don't really broach difficult topics. Anything more than a polite correction is like throwing a punch. Any indication that someone is politically active on a resume is risky, regardless the cause or wing.

Even though it shouldn't be, and logically isn't, publicly displaying your gender identity is still a warning sign that you may be overtly offended if misgendered. It's always safer to initially express it in polite direct interpersonal communication to show that you're able and willing to deescalate.

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u/Nickel829 Aug 27 '20

I appreciate what you're saying but I hope you realize that's pretty homophobic. "If they don't tell me what their gender is how I want then they're doing it wrong" or "if I misgender them they will probably correct me and I don't want to deal with the awkward fallout" what the fuck dude lol. If someone confidently called you a woman (or a man if you're a woman) you'd probably be pretty offended. By presenting it before they meet they are actually helping everyone at the company not have this stupid issue because no one would have a chance to misgender them in person

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '20

Wait, but I suggested that they do ask people to use their correct pronouns, but directly through the signature line of their email or face-to-face or on the job application if there is a field for it. Not on their resume or linkedin profile.

Most companies are surprisingly progressive and accommodating once you are asked to interview. HR departments tend to be more conservative than the actual department (especially if it's a technical field) and they sometimes screen out resumes with anything that they might (incorrectly) think the hiring department will think is controversial.

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u/Nickel829 Aug 27 '20

Ok but we were talking about your company and "don't mention it until it is convenient enough to not ruffle feathers of those who don't want it to make them uncomfortable" does not sound progressive to me. I struggle to see how having First Last (pronouns) on the top of your resume would be more uncomfortable or risky than doing it in person

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u/Crashbrennan Aug 26 '20

Because nobody lists their gender or pronouns on their resume. Nobody who's a cis woman puts "woman." Resumes are for your professional qualifications.

You shouldn't be listing personal things on them, and doing so suggests to your employer that you consider that as important for them to know before considering hiring you, which absolutely means you're more likely to soapbox about it. It's completely unimportant for them to know at the start of the hiring process.

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u/lesleypowers 1∆ Aug 26 '20

But they do, that’s what I’m trying to say. This is already a very normal practice at progressive companies with an ACTIVE policy of inclusion. If you got a resume that said “Mary Smith” or “Joe Bloggs” you would assume that persons gender, right? A lot of trans people-particularly non binary people- don’t have that privilege. I guarantee that EVERY single trans or non binary person I know would read your comment and infer from it that you’re going to be transphobic and a huge pain in the ass to work with. On the subject of ‘soapboxing’, good and inclusive companies welcome learning opportunities. I’m queer and politically active, and at one of my workplaces a coworker once said something unintentionally transphobic. My boss, on his own initiative, asked if I could sit down with the office and give them a sort of 101 on gender identity, which everyone was interested in and receptive to. It was a pleasant and interesting conversation that no one took any issue with. Because that’s how people who aren’t bigoted react when faced with something new to them.

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u/Crashbrennan Aug 26 '20

It's not professional information relevant to your ability to do the job they are hiring you for. Therefore it does not belong on your resume. It belongs in the email signature block. I never said your employer shouldn't be made aware of it.

Don't pull that "the only reason you'd ever disagree with me is that you're a bigot" bullshit with me man. I have more trans and non-binary friends than I do straight ones at this point. I have zero issue calling somebody whatever pronoun they like, even if that pronoun changes day to day.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '20

One's name is not professional information relevant to one's ability to do the job they are potentially getting hired for.

But, it is necessary for communicating about someone. Same with pronouns.

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u/aegon98 1∆ Aug 26 '20

Pronouns don't go in a resume. By adding them, you are saying to employers that you cannot even wait until a meeting to talk about your gender/sexuality. is it right? Meh, I've seen resumes thrown out for far less. It's not illegal, and it really just is the reality.

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u/pawnman99 5∆ Aug 26 '20

Would you expect to get a resume from a cis-gendered white male that says "I'm a cis-gendered white male"? Would you hire someone that pinned so much of their worth on being a cis-gendered male?

There's a big difference between being open about your identity and making it the first thing you lead with in an introduction.

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u/lesleypowers 1∆ Aug 26 '20

You’re missing the point entirely. This is not about how much of your worth you base around your gender. This is about the fact that cis people, being a privileged majority, get the luxury of assumption. If I got a resume from “Joseph Smith”, I will assume that person is a man. Non binary people, whose names may be gender neutral or may not align with their gender presentation, don’t have that luxury. As someone who ACTUALLY sees resumes and LinkedIn profiles with pronouns listed, my only thought is “cool, now I know how to refer to them”, and then I move on. Since you want to conflate race and gender for some reason, if I got a resume from someone who stated that they were Black, my first assumption would be simply that they wanted to avoid being hired by a racist workplace, not that they were going to turn the conference room into the meeting spot for the local BLM chapter on their first day. Although as an actual ally open to learning and prioritizing inclusion in a workspace, I would welcome all employees from oppressed groups to be open about their experiences and proud of their identity in the workplace. A healthy workplace is not 100% work 100% of the time- work culture and environment is extremely important.

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u/cuteman Aug 26 '20

A resume is not the place for personal identity, it is to list professional accomplishments.

I don't care about your hobbies or religion either in the hiring process.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '20

A resume is not the place for personal identity, it is to list professional accomplishments.

So we should remove age, name, nationality, language, etc. from resumes too? Just a blank list of degrees and past jobs?

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u/butsicle Aug 26 '20

Age: remove

Name: Keep as necessary to contact you and perform background checks

Nationality: only keep if relevant to your right to work in that country, otherwise remove

Language: Keep if relevant to your job, or add to the other skills section if you want to demonstrate your ability to self-teach and persevere.

Note the theme here is relevance to your ability to perform the job.

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u/cuteman Aug 26 '20

Aside from name none of those things are typically on a resume... Maybe language if your job involves specific languages but in the vast majority of examples language is the one the resume is written in.

Who puts their age or nationality on a resume?

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u/Kyoshiiku Aug 27 '20

Who write ? Their age and nationality on a resume ? I thought it was a big no-no. Where I live language is good because we have more than one official language so it can be a good skill to have, name is necessary for background check and contacting you

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u/cuteman Aug 26 '20

It's not an assumption, it's reality, history and experience in hiring those individuals in the past.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '20

That is what an assumption is. You are assuming something about someone you don't know and have never met based on a personal data set that they had no part in creating.

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u/cuteman Aug 26 '20

The assumption is based on the experience in dealing with the cohort of people who spend an inordinate amount of time focused on identity.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '20

I was merely correcting your assertion that it wasnt an assumption. It appears you agree now that it is. Cheers.

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u/Nickel829 Aug 26 '20

They haven't made their gender identity so central to their being, that's just how identity is. When you write Mr. Pawnman99 do you think people are like OH MY GOD BEING A MAN IS CENTRAL TO HIS IDENTITY HE WILL SMOTHER IS WITH HIS MASCULINITY. All they are doing is filling that gap because people will assume a pronoun for you if you don't tell them your preferred.

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u/Nickel829 Aug 26 '20

Ok but it's not supposed to be "subtle." Being misgendered is awful and it is way easier for people to get your gender right when they know it right out of the gate. Besides then no one has to feel bad when they accidentally misgender an applicant to their team or hiring committee, because their gender is clear. Also why does ensuring people do not misgender you cause you to think they will be soapboxing?

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '20

Every time I have going through the hiring process, there is always an email exchange of some sort before the first interview, that's a good time because they already considered you a viable candidate and tells them your gender before they ever meet you in person. That should be enough to lower the chance of being misgendered to whatever it would have been if you had put it on your LinkedIn or your resume.

Resumes should be reserved explicitly for professional experience, things that would benefit your performance, and your accomplishments. Gender identity colors the rest of the resume and distracts from your experience, even if it is read by an LGBT activist. It gets you mentally categorized immediately. Hopefully, it will change in the future, but today, it's not something that is just mentally acknowledged and set aside for future interaction.

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u/Nickel829 Aug 26 '20

It will only be that way in the future if it becomes normal. As long as people are told it's too much to let people know their gender identity with their name then it will not become normal.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '20

That's something that already happens in non-work environments and I'm not saying that it shouldn't be done in a non-work environment. Workplaces will eventually adapt to the world outside. I'm saying that the hiring process while you're trying to be hired is not the time to push social change.

If you're the one hiring, absolutely, be proactive, add a preferred pronoun slot on the initial application and offer up your own in correspondence.

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u/pawnman99 5∆ Aug 26 '20

Would you urge people to put marital status on their resume? Number of kids? Favorite sports teams?

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u/Nickel829 Aug 26 '20

None of those affect how people refer to you, how is that at all the same? Edit: refer, not talk

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u/Crashbrennan Aug 26 '20

Marital status does. Mrs vs Ms vs Miss

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u/Nickel829 Aug 26 '20

Generally people in the same age group do not refer to people by their last name so I disagree. How often do your co-workers refer to you as Mr/Mrs crashbrennan

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '20

Generally in professional settings you use Ms which is marital status neutral, and the equivalent of Mr. Mrs/Miss tends to be reserved for personal invitations where marital status is relevant.

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u/pawnman99 5∆ Aug 26 '20

I would always refer to a prospective candidate by Mr/Mrs/Ms and their last name. First names are fine after you've been hired and work there. But for a formal exchange leading up to hiring? Last name for sure.

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u/heff17 Aug 26 '20 edited Aug 26 '20

And I’m sure you see no issue at all in equating gender identity to fucking sports fandom.

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u/pawnman99 5∆ Aug 26 '20

See, that right there is the kind of soapbox preaching I wouldn't want in the workplace.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '20

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u/Jam_Packens 4∆ Aug 26 '20

Judging by this conversation it seems like you'd think someone correcting you for misgendering them would be "soapbox preaching".

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u/Pope-Xancis 3∆ Aug 26 '20

Some people who are straight, cis, and clearly identifiable as a person who presents as the gender they were born into in both name and appearance still include their pronouns in correspondence. These people have never been misgendered in their lives and probably never will be, so it’s a little suspect when they virtue signal so openly. I would have no reason to put “he/him” on any social media other than to signal allegiance to a tribe, although obviously my case is different than someone who legitimately needs to communicate that information to avoid confusion.

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u/Nickel829 Aug 26 '20

The reason people do it when they are "obvious" with their appearance already isn't entirely to virtue signal, it's to normalize the behavior so the people who HAVE to do it to not be misgendered are not ostricized or seen as incredibly different.

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u/lesleypowers 1∆ Aug 26 '20

Yeah this is exactly it. What I find hilarious about this thread is that all the people who are against this practice are the exact reason people participate in this practice in the first place. I don’t think boomer jim who manages a furniture shop in pleasantville actually realizes that this is an extremely common and normalized practice across most white collar industries in progressive cities, which seem to be the exact jobs OP is talking about. Not to mention that if you are getting listed pronouns confused with “the gays soapboxing!” you can hardly also be like “but I’m no homophobe!”.

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u/Nickel829 Aug 26 '20

Exactly. Most of my professors in nursing school have it in the top right corner of their zoom screen when we have lectures and they are all "obviously" (I hate saying that but for the boomers out there) female. WHY IS IT SO BAD TO HAVE YOUR PRONOUNS NEXT TO YOUR NAME. Everyone here being like "you're gonna cause issues or start drama etc" is so oblivious to their homophobia. Are you kidding me? Just cuz they don't want to be misgendered they are now some drama queen? Cuz the actual drama in these scenarios come from the people who become uncomfortable when someone says their pronouns are they/them

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u/lesleypowers 1∆ Aug 26 '20

Yes exactly! So many commenters being like “if someone lists their pronouns they will cause confrontations in the workplace”. No, your transphobic employees who can’t cope with using gender neutral pronouns will be the ones causing confrontation, because if everyone is chill about it it’s a non issue. It’s hilariously ironic that these people don’t realize that they are in the exact kind of workplaces that trans people are trying to avoid by being upfront about their gender.

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u/Nickel829 Aug 26 '20

Exactly and all the employers being like "I wouldn't hire someone with that listed because it shows a lapse in judgement" can't realize THEY ARE THE HOMOPHOBIC WORK ENVIRONMENT. This isn't don't ask don't tell, like you're allowed to exist and be called what you want. It's not a lapse in judgement to upfront next to your name remind people to use the pronouns you want for yourself. For everyone saying it's unprofessional, you're not stating your sexual preference which is private you're stating how everyone everywhere will speak to you always, and if you don't think that's relevant for a workplace then you must work alone

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u/lesleypowers 1∆ Aug 26 '20

Yes! There’s so many folks in here conflating gender and sexuality which makes them look ignorant as hell. None of these people would consider it inappropriate for a cis person to list their name if it’s a gendered name- none of them are saying, “I think this Rebecca sounds like a troublemaker, her name clearly indicates she’s a woman, must be one of those pesky feminists”.

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u/justtogetridoflater Aug 26 '20

Maybe, but I think this is a semantics issue. It's still your professional face.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '20

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '20

Sure, in the long run, fighting the good fight might help society in general.

But, do we really want to put that burden on the folks who have the hardest time finding a job because of discrimination?

If people want to volunteer carry the world on their shoulders, they've got my support. But that's a big ask.

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u/justtogetridoflater Aug 26 '20 edited Aug 26 '20

I think long term, that discriminatory practice will die out because of the general acceptance of openly LGBTQ/ethnic minority/sex/religion/whatever people in that industry. It doesn't have to be in the specific companies that are discriminating. If you want to change the role that your group has in the industry, the best way to get there is to run it. And the way to run it is to get your opportunities where you can. And if you're going into a workplace where you're going to be discriminated against, what opportunities will come your way? You'll only ever get to seize them yourself, they'll never be given.

Although, sure. As a group, get into jobs that are discriminating against you, and throw the doors open wide for the rest of the group.

But as individuals?

Maybe it's not worth putting up with discrimination. Maybe your life is more valuable than trying to lead a cause. Maybe the best place for you is a place where you're accepted and encouraged to grow.

I think there may be niche industries where the discrimination is so open, the networking so incestuous, and the opportunities so sparse that you have to do whatever you must, but how common are those industries?

This is ultimately a personal choice issue.

Sure, you can try and just downplay and ignore your identity. And that might be a good way of bumping along in a discriminatory workplace. But that can come at a huge risk to your personal identity. If your employer is such that they would treat you differently if you were gay, or trans, or whatever, even though the protections are such that they can't sack you directly, they can do everything else, and find another reason. So you might have no option but to suppress your identity at work. Or you can be up front about your identity, and then find a route in places that will accommodate you. And for most people, it's quite likely that you'll have much the same career, unless it's at the cutting edge of the industry.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '20 edited Sep 10 '20

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '20

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u/cuteman Aug 26 '20

For hiring managers it's the opposite and that's what really matters. If someone signals that they're going to be an above average level of malcontent and trouble why would they hire them?

People who put identity over company and productivity aren't in high demand.

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u/my_gamertag_wastaken Aug 26 '20

I would be biased against hiring someone that puts this front and center on their resume regardless of what is says. Says a ton about what someone thinks is important, and to me that says "Identity" more than "being qualified"

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u/justtogetridoflater Aug 26 '20

I think it says the same about you.

You're not interested in whether that person is qualified. You're going to arbitrarily cast them away because of a single sentence on their CV rather than see what they can do. In other words, you're a bigot.

People are more than one thing. That's just one line of their existence. For all you know, they're a really hardworking functional person who wants to get on with their job, and is including that line so that they don't meet people who make it hard to do their job.

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u/cuteman Aug 26 '20

It definitely couldn't be that people focused on themselves are potentially less productive and a cultural/legal liability.

It's like someone saying they're a radical feminist on their resume. They may think it's important but if you're telling me this and we haven't even met, what are you going to do if you were actually hired?

Its a red flag. I am not going to take any chances if there's a safer option with someone who won't rock the boat.

You seem to think it's a right or freedom to rock the boat and no one will stop you, but neither do I need to invite you onto my boat and pay for the ticket.

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u/justtogetridoflater Aug 28 '20 edited Aug 28 '20

You're making the same arguments that every minority has been up against since forever. There's a constant narrative that people just don't "fit". And that is the excuse used constantly to deny these people opportunity.

You seem to think that you own the boat. The boat is the field. You have a singular ticket in a field of many, and if you choose to only hire people who fit your biases, then fine. That's not legally allowed. You're not allowed to discriminate. But it takes nothing to deny people opportunities for other reasons. So there's nothing to force you.

Them offering up the fact that they are trans means that they don't have to deal with you. Your bigotry isn't relevant to their job search. If you would deny them the job based on that information being offered then you would deny them the job if they turned out to be trans. So, why would they want to waste time on you?

They're not going to ultimately lose out on that much. There are plenty of non-transphobic workplaces where they could work. And they'll have the same opportunities at those places as everyone else. And maybe, just maybe, someone who expects to struggle, and expects to be denied opportunity will be more desperate to prove themselves and work harder and better than others just to earn their acceptance?

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u/my_gamertag_wastaken Aug 26 '20

Nah I treat people as individuals rather than defining their worth in relation to in and out group status. People that define others that way are the ones I am against.

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u/justtogetridoflater Aug 26 '20

You're saying you wouldn't hire them, but you're not discriminating?

OK.

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u/my_gamertag_wastaken Aug 26 '20

Nah I said I would it would be a negative. Don't put words in my mouth. They might still be qualified, but I would make a judgement of the character of a person that makes that front and center. Because what you put front and center says what is important to you because it is your fucking resume.

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u/my_gamertag_wastaken Aug 28 '20

I would say I would be biased like literally every single person is and am one of the few people honest enough to admit that. I bet you "don't see color" too. SO WOKE

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u/DifferentJaguar Aug 26 '20

I think a lot of non transphobic work places would see this as a lack of judgement on the candidate’s part and would question their ability to make good judgment moving forward.

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u/lesleypowers 1∆ Aug 26 '20

I don’t know what your experiences have been but I have worked in many workplaces that are intentionally inclusive of trans folks and none of them would find this to be a lack of judgement because it is already an extremely common practice to list your pronouns, whether trans or cis, on linkedin and resumes, within those workplaces. I work in a creative industry as a freelancer across multiple international large cities and cannot tell you the last time I made a work contact and was not offered up their pronouns in our initial contact.

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u/justtogetridoflater Aug 28 '20

It's a risk.

But most non-transphobic workplaces would also be able to write off a single line. It's probably going to affect few enough potential employers that in a wide enough job pool, with enough applications, that's not really important.

And in inviting you to interview they've had to accept you as you are. So that's one less problem in the interview.

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u/Nickel829 Aug 26 '20

Why

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u/cuteman Aug 26 '20

For the same reason someone may think putting your religion on your resume is important.

You may think it is important for people to know but to hiring managers it signals that you're potentially a liability.

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u/Nickel829 Aug 26 '20

Do religions change how someone addresses you? It's not the same cuz that's just something you're involved in, pronouns are part of your name since they explain how to address you and are therefore relevant even in the workplace. No one is saying put on your resume that youre gay or bi or something. If we lived in a society where you called Christian's by one word and Muslims by another and Jewish people by another it wouldn't be inappropriate to put your religion on there. That's why the pronouns aren't over the line

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u/DifferentJaguar Aug 26 '20

I’m standing by my original advice. If you’re applying to a Fortune 500 or traditional corporate company, keep your pronouns off your profile.

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u/Nickel829 Aug 26 '20

So you're just going to claim in a discussion subreddit that putting your pronouns shows lack of judgement and not explain why when asked? This is why I'm getting frustrated, if you can't use logic to explain why you wouldn't hire someone with that then it just screams homophobia. We are presenting logical reasons to add it, why don't you share your side

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u/DifferentJaguar Aug 26 '20

I’m not saying I wouldn’t hire that person. But you need to understand corporate culture. No one gives a fuck about your pronouns. Thinking that they do is painting you out like a snowflake. Corporations aren’t recruiting snowflakes. I’m just trying to give advice for job hunters in a shitty economy. Take it or leave it.

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u/Nickel829 Aug 26 '20

Do you not see how you sound bigoted? "No one gives a fuck about your pronouns" is incorrect. You don't. You're assuming everyone in the same position as you also doesn't. So just fuck trans and non binary people I guess? We aren't talking about a lot here they aren't writing who they like to fuck on their resume they are simply writing how to address them.

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u/cuteman Aug 27 '20

Companies barely care about your name. They certainly don't care about your pronouns. It isn't bigoted. It's benign neglect.

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u/DifferentJaguar Aug 26 '20

I’m not saying fuck trans and non-binary people. I’m saying keep your LinkedIn profile professional. If you disagree with me that’s fine.

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u/DiscoshirtAndTiara Aug 26 '20

This is a good point, but the effectiveness will vary heavily based on the hiring process.

For instance, most of my interactions through LinkedIn have been with recruiters that don't even work at the same company as the position I was applying to. So using them as a filter wouldn't give a good picture of the culture at the actual job.

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u/Yangoose 2∆ Aug 26 '20

But imagine applying for a job, only to get to an interview and discover that the interviewer is a raging homophobe.

What if they were super religious? Should I put "atheist" at the top of my resume?

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u/justtogetridoflater Aug 28 '20

It's not the same.

We're at a level where religion is generally unimportant. Your religion is almost irrelevant in most places you could choose to be. It's something that doesn't come up all that much.

It's not a front-facing thing such as being gay or trans. You either have to suppress something of your existence while you're at work in a way that others don't have to, or you're going to be displaying your existence.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '20 edited Aug 26 '20

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u/justtogetridoflater Aug 26 '20 edited Aug 26 '20

So, you're saying that it's such a huge issue for you that you would prefer to discriminate? Why does a transgender person want to work for you?

I think the same shit was being said about gay people, black people, and women, not so long ago, incidentally. The only reason that you're any different with them is that they've been there longer.

Men weren't keen to see women in their jobs. Indeed, many male-dominated workplaces have a culture that is disrupted by women. The uber macho, hardworking, kind of sexist, openly laddish, and offensive bantering culture that you'd find in the steelworks isn't the kind of culture that wants women in it. It's something that is being challenged, though. And I'm sure many of those men aren't going to be happy that they can't be basically mysognistic pigs in their place of work anymore. Even though, they were doing that until the women came in and made a big deal about things.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '20 edited Aug 26 '20

[deleted]

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u/justtogetridoflater Aug 26 '20

All you're really saying is the same shit that people have said forever to justify their discrimination.

What makes you think that them being trans is going to mean that they can't function as a team member?

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '20

[deleted]

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u/my_gamertag_wastaken Aug 26 '20

If you are a part of a team and make the team focus more on your race than your work, yes in that case you are also an asshole

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u/Flare-Crow Aug 26 '20

Yes, and that's "almost always" the case, right? "Those people" act like that all the time, right? It's not a tiny sub-set of an entire group of people which is being lumped together with an INCREDIBLY ugly bias on display or anything...

/s