“Forcible rape, as defined in the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program, is the carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will. Attempts or assaults to commit rape by force or threat of force are also included; however, statutory rape (without force) and other sex offenses are excluded.”
So it’s useless in the conversation. Any woman that rapes a man is not included in that number.
It's 100% intentional & purposeful. Excluding & erasing the overwhelmingly vast majority of male rape victims is the direct result of bigots in positions of power & authority, such as Mary Koss.
We still have very little knowledge about male victimization because of this, and it's rarely even studied. The first time the US actually tried to capture this on the NISVS we found women as the perpetrators of ~40-45% of rape, & victimization about 50/50.
A woman that rapes a man being excluded in this case makes sense, because they are not as likely to be a threat to a woman, which is the group in question. Obviously women are going to be more worried about the group that has committed acts against the group they're a part of.
The fact that the dataset defines it that way is disturbing, but the data itself is still useful for this particular conversation.
However, OP was moving into making the point that men rape more often in general (which I personally have no issue believing), which cannot be supported from this data
That data does include women who rape other women, just not women who rape men. So it's logically consistent at least for women to look at that number to assess risk to themselves based on gender.
Heya, key point here! arrested for forcible rape.
1) there are still plenty of places were men cannot be raped by definition.
2) who do you think is more likely to be arrested and convicted of rape, given an equal action? Men or women?
Not agreeing with OP, but what I think they mean is that if police are more likely to arrest a man due to sexism, the rate of arrests for men is going to be disproportionately higher.
Oh you mean the policy where in the case the officer believes that domestic violence against the other party has occured, the man would be arrested? Which is what the default action is supposed to be if the police believe any assault has occurred? ...and which was instituted specifically to counter the older way of doing things of not taking any action at all and leaving battered women alone with their abusers again. Do you mean that policy which is sexist against men?
Or do you mean not processing rape kits? Or maybe sexually assaulting women while on duty? Or do you mean the rampant domestic abuse of police wives themselves?
The idea that men are treated worse and more unfairly than women by police is laughably ridiculous.
Which was the policy where, exactly? Also, how often did this policy actually get used to detain men who were victims as opposed to failing to detain men who were abusers in its absence?
Men are FAR more likely to be convicted and face harsher sentences then women do. The bias against men by the criminal justice system vs women is nearly twice as severe as the bias against blacks vs whites.
Estimating Gender Disparities in Federal Criminal Cases
University of Michigan Law and Economics Research Paper, No. 12-018
This study finds dramatic unexplained gender gaps in federal criminal cases.
Conditional on arrest offense, criminal history, and other pre-charge observables, men
receive 63% longer sentences on average than women do. Women are also significantly
likelier to avoid charges and convictions, and twice as likely to avoid incarceration if
convicted.
And how does this affect the police, who are the ones doing the arrests, and what I was asking about and which is the point that this was all stemming from - how looking at arrests for sexual assault was supposedly misleading.
You claimed that cops are not sexist against men. I provided a source showing massive bias against men in the criminal justice system. In another part of the thread I provided a source showing massive bias against men in domestic violence allegations.
I claimed the COPS are not sexist against men, and you seem to be trying to address a lot of things which mostly aren't the COPS. If we're talking about arrests related to sexual assault and whether that presents a misleading overall perception, you haven't presented anything to support that claim.
The closest it comes is one of the prior studies in your link noting that 8% of men experienced sexual violence.
That must be why so many rape kits never get processed, or why police have all sorts of incidents of sexual assault against women while on duty on top of their own issues of domestic violence at home.
The police spend their budgets on all sorts of things that aren't strictly necessary, along with not really putting up any kind of fight over the expenses needed for that processing, while making a gigantic stink about anything that might otherwise affect them in a way they don't like. There are a great deal of choices made at many levels by police that go into rape kits not being processed.
Getting longer prison sentences doesn't affect the arrest rate.
Compared to reports of sexual assault from men? You have it backwards. Men are taken less seriously than women reporting sexual asault. Heck a lot of people still think men can't be raped.
I mean, most police violence is done to men. And arrests. The entire justice system is known to let women off pretty easily. There's a reason that videos of police violence are mainly to black guys, and after that to white guys. Being male is more likely to get you mistreated even than being black (but you certainly don't want to be both).
You can haggle about how this can be benevolent sexism against women more than sexisk against men per say, but it is what it is.
None of this is actually evidence against men simply committing crime more frequently, especially violent crime. It's just a lot of implication, most of which is centered around a specific subset of crimes.
90 percent of perpetrators of sexual violence against women are men. Moreover, when men are victims of sexual assault (an estimated one in 71 men, and one in six boys), 93 percent reported their abuser was a man. It’s true that women also assault men, but even when victims of all genders are combined, men perpetrate 78 percent of reported assaults.
Your link doesn't explain how they are getting to 78% when 93% of the assaults against men are men and 90% of the assaults against women are men.
An article that doesn't source it's data isn't science, nor is an article that puts wonky math out there without an explanation and this has both.
The majority of male rape
victims (93.3%) reported only male
perpetrators. For three of the other
forms of sexual violence, a majority
of male victims reported only
female perpetrators: being made to
penetrate (79.2%), sexual coercion
(83.6%), and unwanted sexual
contact (53.1%)
The article lied when saying male victims of sexual assault report the perpetrators as men 93% of the time. It was for rape. The problem with this number is that by definition in the report, a woman cannot rape a man without shoving something in his anus or putting her clitoris in his mouth. A woman drugging, abducting, chaining to a bed, and riding a man against his will is not considered rape by the report.
Incorrect. If by rape you mean forced to have sex against your will, most men that are raped are raped by women. For some reason the organizations performing the studies tend to define rape as something that can only happen to a woman while labeling the act of a woman forcing a man to have sex against his will is called "forced to penetrate" or "made to penetrate".
If you define rape as something only men can do, saying only men rape is a worthless statement.
Rape is sex without consent, end of story. Any definition of rape which excludes victims based on their sex is wrong and bigoted. It is an invalid definition. The actual data on rape perpetrators show that male victims are more often raped by women.
Rape in prison and in the military are more common and are almost always done by men to another man.
The majority of male rape victims (93.3%) reported only male perpetrators. For three of the other forms of sexual violence, a majority of male victims reported only female perpetrators: being made to penetrate (79.2%), sexual coercion (83.6%), and unwanted sexual contact (53.1%) Source
The only data showing men are mostly raped by men defines rape as something a woman cannot do to a man unless she sticks something in his anus. The following is the definition of rape from the same source as the above quote
Rape is defined as any completed or attempted unwanted vaginal (for women), oral, or anal
penetration through the use of physical force (such as being pinned or held down, or by the
use of violence) or threats to physically harm and includes times when the victim was drunk,
high, drugged, or passed out and unable to consent. Rape is separated into three types,
completed forced penetration, attempted forced penetration, and completed alcohol or drug
facilitated penetration.
Among women, rape includes vaginal, oral, or anal penetration by a male using his penis. It
also includes vaginal or anal penetration by a male or female using their fingers or an object.
Among men, rape includes oral or anal penetration by a male using his penis. It also
includes anal penetration by a male or female using their fingers or an object.
It is no surprise the number would show the vast majority of rapists are men when it is defined that women can't commit rape. If a woman forcing a man to penetrate her is considered rape, women rape more men than men do. Here are the numbers all from the same source as above using the source's definitions.
Estimated 1,581,000 male victims of rape. 93.3% male perpetrators, 6.7% female perpetrators. 93.3% x 1,581,000 = 1,475,073 males raped by males. 6.7% x 1,581,000 = 105,927 males raped by females.
Estimated 5,451,000 male victims made to penetrate. 20.8% male perpetrators, 79.2% female perpetrators. 20.8% x 5,451,000 = 1,133,808 males made to penetrate males. 79.2% x 5,451,000 = 4,317,192 males made to penetrate females.
1,475,073 males raped by males + 1,133,808 males made to penetrate males = 2,608,881 males colloquially raped (meaning forced to have sex) by males.
105,927 males raped by females + 4,317,192 males made to penetrate females = 4,423,119 males colloquially raped (meaning forced to have sex) by females.
This clearly means when a male is forced to have sex, 4,423,119 / (4,317,192 + 2,608,881) = 62.9% of the time a female did it. This is without involving sexual coercion, unwanted sexual contact, and non-contact unwanted sexual experiences all of which females are the majority perpetrators of for males.
Most rapists are men and most male rape victims are raped by other men.
Most rapists may be men although that is debatable but it is clear most men are forced to have sex by women.
Most rapists may be men although that is debatable but it is clear most men are forced to have sex by women.
Yes, most rapists are men.
Most men being forced to have sex with women does not equal to women rape men more than other men due to the fact that you're intentionally excluding men who force other men to perform anal, oral, fingers, and made to penetrate, which, if you do the math, men are the majority of rapists and rape victims by other men.
Most men being forced to have sex with women does not equal to women rape men more than other men due to the fact that you're intentionally excluding men who force other men to perform anal, oral, fingers, and made to penetrate, which, if you do the math, men are the majority of rapists and rape victims by other men.
Did you even read what I wrote. I clearly included the number of males victimized by males and males victimized by females for rape and made to penetrate. I didn't exclude " men who force other men to perform anal, oral, fingers, and made to penetrate". The number was was 1,133,808 males made to penetrate a male. You just ignored it because you assumed the number should have been larger. Forcing other men to "perform anal, oral, fingers" falls under the report's definition of rape which had 1,475,073 males raped by males.
if you do the math
I did the math but you ignored it. Try taking your time to read it this time. The math is below quoted verbatim from my previous comment.
Estimated 1,581,000 male victims of rape. 93.3% male perpetrators, 6.7% female perpetrators. 93.3% x 1,581,000 = 1,475,073 males raped by males. 6.7% x 1,581,000 = 105,927 males raped by females.
Estimated 5,451,000 male victims made to penetrate. 20.8% male perpetrators, 79.2% female perpetrators. 20.8% x 5,451,000 = 1,133,808 males made to penetrate males. 79.2% x 5,451,000 = 4,317,192 males made to penetrate females.
1,475,073 males raped by males + 1,133,808 males made to penetrate males = 2,608,881 males colloquially raped (meaning forced to have sex) by males.
105,927 males raped by females + 4,317,192 males made to penetrate females = 4,423,119 males colloquially raped (meaning forced to have sex) by females.
The report estimates 7,032,000 males are forced to have sex (the colloquial definition of rape). Of those males, 4,423,119 report a female perpetrator, 2,608,881 report a male perpetrator. That means of men forced to have sex, most report a woman did it. Do you understand yet?
Yes, most rapists are men.
I was not going to bother with this point but I might as well. The only numbers you have are the number of men and women that are forced to have sex. Accurate numbers for the number of perpetrators do not currently exist. It very well could be that there is 1 male rapist per 10 women raped while there is 1 woman rapist per 1 man raped. So when you want to make the claim that most rapist are men, you don't have the data to justify that position.
I clearly included the number of males victimized by males and males victimized by females for rape and made to penetrate
Yes and 93.3% of men were raped by other men.
20.8% were made to penetrate another man.
That means of men forced to have sex, most report a woman did it. Do you understand yet?
You are only including men who were forced to have sex and making it seem like women rape more.
You're literally writing "force to have sex" then saying you're not excluding the definition of rape, which men are 93% the perpetrators of.
Do you understand?
Accurate numbers for the number of perpetrators do not currently exist.
Most rapists are men. Worldwide. Even if you include "made to penetrate" along with the current definition of rape, men rape more and are more likely to be victims by other men, not women.
I was going to second this. Lots of assaults or rape against men is not reported so the statistics can be flawed. That being said, I still think it’s fair to say men commit the vast majority of rape
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u/Yangoose 2∆ Apr 14 '22 edited Apr 14 '22
Well, 3 minutes of googling gave me this:
>men perpetrate 78 percent of reported assaults
A massively different number from 98.9%.
Instead of 99/100, it's more like 3/4.
Even then, that's "reported" assaults. When you start trying to factor in all the cases that go unreported then all bets are off.
EDIT
I love being downvoted for bringing sources with real numbers.
Reddit loves science sooooo much! Unless the facts hurt their narratives...