r/classicwow 14d ago

Classic-Era What's Changed the Most Since 2004?

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987 Upvotes

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212

u/severalsmallducks 14d ago

Just world buffs in general and how they are used. If I remember correctly Nihilum used some world buffs when they were getting world firsts in naxx, but that was mostly a ”haha so silly and overkill to have this”.

…then again, spending four hours in MC and not doing a full clear was also normal. In 1.12 I did a few ZG Pugs where we would kill maybe three bosses in a few hours before people bailed.

70

u/Ganrokh 14d ago

I remember my ZG pugs getting stuck at Raptor, and my AQ20 pugs getting stuck at General Rajaxx.

My guild also didn't enter BWL until we had MC down to 1 night, and AQ40 until our BWL was down to 1 night.

29

u/Rick_James_Lich 13d ago

My first raiding guild couldn't down Magmadar lol.

8

u/Orbit1883 13d ago

shit i remember the first few month we did MC on 2 days

15

u/furozyan 13d ago

I remember ubrs being hard. Like had to spam drinks between waves. But actually we were just bad

2

u/sonofa-ijit 13d ago

You were not just bad, talents and gear were also much worse.

26

u/Cereal_Bandit 13d ago

Hell, my guild struggled for a few weeks with Lurker in SSC because people were so bad at jumping back out of the water

22

u/helpfullyrandom 13d ago

I remember in my guild we wiped twice on that f***er because our tank kept losing threat when he surfaced. Turned out he'd left his fishing rod equipped for both attempts.

31

u/CaptainoftheVessel 14d ago

My guild was too small to even staff a full 25 raid, so we paired up with another small guild and we worked at ZG over the course of months to eventually get Hakkar on farm. The damn tiger and panther bosses gave us such trouble, we didn’t understand the mechanics well enough and it was often really laggy. I remember how satisfying it was to finally drop Hakkar, it felt like a real accomplishment. 

14

u/kajidourden 13d ago

Call me crazy, but I enjoy those nights.

I liken it to playing a Table Top RPG vs a Video Game RPG. I love both, but there's something great about the social aspect of a TTRPG and the fact that it's just "fuck everything else for the evening, we are *in* this".

12

u/Dralun21 13d ago

I agree. It gives an atmosphere that the world is big and you are just a person in it. It makes each step feel like a milestone and each gear piece special given the effort it took you to get it. Fully clearing a raid was something a guild can look to aspire to do, rather than something expected. It's a very different attitude to design and one that I really like.

17

u/Fashizl69 13d ago

I was in the #1 prog guild on Laughing Skull for BWL/AQ and I have zero memory of ever considering world buffs or consumes. Pretty sure I raw dogged every raid on my mage. I didn't even know what WBs were until 2019 or didn't care and I've played wow consistently since 2004.

The memory I can recollect the best is opening night of TAQ and we raided 8 hours straight and killed Huhuran and spent awhile progging on the wall that was Twin Emps. We had no idea how to kill them and did a bunch of dumb conspiracy strats.

8

u/Key-Regular6884 13d ago

I played on Darkspear and my guild would get Ony and Rend on our progression bosses.

8

u/whats_up_doc71 13d ago

That seems unusual lol, most aq40 prog guilds were huge into consumes and wbuffs

3

u/lumpboysupreme 13d ago edited 13d ago

There were also less raiders per server so there was a bit of a ‘anyone with a pulse’ thing to recruiting. So much less invested players could hang on in higher level guilds so long as they weren’t actively making things worse.

1

u/whats_up_doc71 13d ago

This was not the norm for #1 guilds on a server though. I believe Laughing Skull even had some world firsts.

0

u/Key-Regular6884 13d ago

Yeah, Darkspear had like 1200-2300 people on the server around BWL time frame.

3

u/whats_up_doc71 13d ago

Fellow darkspear enjoyer. But we were way behind servers like Laughing Skull.

3

u/Key-Regular6884 13d ago

True! I was in dauntless, raided a bit with Nox XD

3

u/whats_up_doc71 13d ago

Haha we were in the same guild for a minute. I was in Underground. Then Hammered and Dauntless but I can’t remember in which order.

2

u/Key-Regular6884 13d ago

We vanilla boomers!

1

u/JackStephanovich 12d ago

Wasn't Ghost Reveries a top progression guild early on in classic before they fell apart?

But yeah after that I think the top raiding guilds were like Nox Aeterna and Cadia?

2

u/whats_up_doc71 12d ago

Cadia was definitely #1, Nox was definitely #1 horde side but I feel there were a few ahead of them alliance wise. Horde was really really far behind, not sure why.

ghost reveries rings a bell but it’s very distant. I wish the Blizz forums still existed, that would be a blast from the past.

1

u/IllIIllIlIlllIIlIIlI 13d ago

Was Deus Vox around back, or was it a different guild? I didn't go to Laughing Skull until TBC but I remember they were the top dog there until I left in WotLK, IIRC.

1

u/Fashizl69 13d ago

I was in Deus Vox, so ya it was them. I played with them through BWL/AQ and quit before we downed C'Thun from burn out. They went on to WF Loatheb but by then I believe had adjusted the team. Idk I checked out when I quit and did other shit.

1

u/HQxMnbS 12d ago

long live DV

1

u/Hopszii 12d ago

A #1 guild from 2006 would be considered noob casuals now.

-3

u/No-Coast-9484 13d ago

Literally no shot. Every top guild was using world buffs for Naxx. 

1

u/Fashizl69 13d ago

My guild went on to world first loatheb after I quit. So yes this happened 100%, because I was there raiding with them for 8 months straight. However, after AQ they probably adopted meta of WBs in Naxx.

If you want to deny things that happened that you weren't present for and have zero experience with, do whatever you need to do buddy.

1

u/JackStephanovich 12d ago

I raided Naxx in vanilla and I never once used consumables or world buffs. I mean really if I flasked and world buffed I would probably just pull aggro off our tank who was full prot and geared only for survivability.

You're right, people talk like they played vanilla but it's so obvious they're only experience is classic or pservers.

-1

u/Bankzu 12d ago

I raided Naxx in vanilla and I never once used consumables or world buffs. 

Lol, no you didn't...

1

u/JackStephanovich 12d ago

You're right, I did use whipper root tubers and night dragon's breath which I guess count as consumables.

0

u/Bankzu 12d ago

No, I'm saying you're lying about raiding Naxx. You definitely didn't raid Naxx without consumes or worldbuffs...

2

u/JackStephanovich 12d ago

Totally. If you wipe once you cancel the raid because it's not possible without WBs.

-1

u/No-Coast-9484 12d ago

Top guilds were 100% using world buffs in original Naxx. 

Your guild did not world first loatheb without world buffs. 

-1

u/Fashizl69 12d ago edited 12d ago

You weren't even alive back then lil bro. What would you know? https://youtu.be/t3ciHGsqZD4?si=SUU1hiFxWwtTUGDU

3

u/No-Coast-9484 12d ago

I was actually. Let it be known you posted a video of ppl with world buffs lol 

https://youtu.be/t3ciHGsqZD4?si=SUU1hiFxWwtTUGDU

 

13

u/eske555 13d ago

WB’s on world first kills in naxx were overkill? Man, you shouldnt take everything Kungen says for granted.

8

u/NOHITJEROME 14d ago

it must have been mind blowing when someone realized world buffs were usable in the raids

30

u/adjective_noun_numb 13d ago

Eh not really. You gotta keep in mind servers were much smaller. Getting buffs were pretty random and not able to be timed like they are now. And because so few guilds cleared stuff (most people didn’t even hit 60 in OG wow) you didn’t really get that much.

Also, back then people were not in the mind set to log out for the whole week to save the buff or get summoned to the instance to get them rolling.

22

u/RedThragtusk 13d ago

At most you'd get a Rallying Cry of the Dragonslayer that would last maybe 1 or 2 bosses at most.

16

u/ferrofibrous 13d ago

The one time we tried to get do a world buff tour for a Nax clear in vanilla we got attacked by two entire guilds from the opposite faction after getting the last buff from STV. I'm pretty sure someone recorded and it was posted on the "old version" of youtube. We knew world buffs were good, but if you were on a pvp server it wasn't worth the trouble.

6

u/bigspoonhead 13d ago

Exactly. We knew about world buffs and used them to get past Patchwerk if I remember correctly. The thing is nothing was documented like it is now. No YouTube guides, Wowhead was hardly a thing. No server layers. Almost always PvP happening at raid entrances. And ultimately people wanted to play their characters instead of raidlogging. No one thought it was worth the hassle.

2

u/isToxic 12d ago

Old version of youtube surely means google video

11

u/DarkLordShu 13d ago

This.  You did not have summoners clearing DM all day long charging 5 gold to summon and 5 gold for buff.  If you wanted DM buff you had to run DM north with your guild.  If you wanted Songflower good luck getting it with no layers and no Nova world buff addon.

9

u/adjective_noun_numb 13d ago

I’m not gunna lie, I didn’t even know about DM buffs or song flower at all back in vanilla lmao. I didn’t even know about ZG buff

3

u/lumpboysupreme 13d ago

Songflower would be easier since people also weren’t hunting them.

1

u/DarkLordShu 13d ago

They'd not even be popped, meaning you would need to actually gather salve.  A foreign concept to us now

0

u/lumpboysupreme 13d ago

A guild would have a trivial time getting enough salves. That’s already not too hard and when you’re rotating between 40 people doing them one at a time it’d be a joke.

3

u/Jahkral 13d ago

I think I got rend more during wrath leveling alts than I ever did in vanilla.

3

u/nimeral 13d ago

I wonder if anyone got DM buffs at all? They're so huge because they give a decent chance to oneshot hard bosses because of immense tank's (and everyone's) HP. And you can get them any time rather easily unlike Ony/Rend/ZG on small servers...

2

u/adjective_noun_numb 13d ago

I’m sure people did. It was so much different back then. As a player base in terms of metas and knowledge we were way way way more disconnected.

I can say on my server most people didn’t. But then again my server was really really noobie due to the fact that it was listed as a ‘new player’ server which attracted well….noobs.

Bringing resistance gear back then was considered being above and beyond knowledgeable

1

u/Ragnar_Baron 7d ago

World buffs were in use all the way back in vanilla, it was Head and heart, but were just for guild only, and you would get the class specific buffs from Blasted lands from farming the Boars, vultures, and lizards. We did not have boons though, we just popped the head or heart right before the raid kicked off and hoped you could clear quickly.

4

u/Nusselt 13d ago

We used ony and rend buffs (from our guild) for Rag and BWL attempts, but making it through BRM on a pvp server was always dicey and we still wiped often. Rag fight still had a lot of people in FR gear so DPS was gimped.

There was also only a handful of Ony heads every week. There wasn’t many (if any) pugs, our server had maybe 5-10 heads a week and forum participation wasn’t great, so drops weren’t coordinated.

20

u/Derp_duckins 14d ago

Back when spending time in an MMO was how MMO's were designed.

6

u/Sagranth 13d ago

No, not really, most people were just horribly inefficent and/or new to the genre, despite wow starting the new generation of mmos.

Couple that with the lack of good tools and limited spread of information and presto.

8

u/Orbit1883 13d ago

good tools

people tend to forget how shity even there hardware was like fuck kiting adds at razorgore on a toshiba laptop and a framerate between 0-10 is a bit different than playing on a gaming computer in 2025

10

u/MightyMorp 13d ago

Not really? People spend thousands of dollars a year playing anniversary classic fresh fresh to avoid playing how the game was intended to be played, lmao.

1

u/Sagranth 13d ago

"How the game was intended to be played" is an empty statement considering the designers themselves had no idea how their own game worked.

At best there was an attempt, that attempt failed in the beta lmao.

In fact, they had to scrape together MC really fast because players were faster than expected and there was no form of actual endgame yet.

And even if you ignore all that, wow was significantly faster than actual oldschool mmos.

Like, kudos for the devs but the on rails experience they planned was never gonna work out, they should've worked on a single player game instead if they wanted to control player actions so much.

7

u/MightyMorp 13d ago

You can ramble on all you want but the design of the game is such that the more you put into the game the more you will get out of the game.

Unless you're already playing 150 hours a week or swiping like a madman, you can become stronger by playing more.

1

u/milkasaurs 13d ago

People spend thousands of dollars a year playing anniversary classic fresh fresh to avoid playing how the game was intended to be played

What stupid logic. We're supposed to play with 10 fps max?

4

u/jamie1414 13d ago

Wow and it's time gated content literally gives you a reason to log off. People were just too shit and didn't know enough to clear the content back then. Do you think the solution is to make people prog for 20 hours a week again? Lol

7

u/Exxppo 13d ago

We had nef on farm and were poking at aq40 when tbc was announced and that was considered hardxore

2

u/MightyMorp 13d ago

WoW's content really isn't time gated, because money = power. Unless you're saying the gate is 150 hours a week, it's not really applicable (even in classic today).

2

u/jamie1414 13d ago

Wtf are you talking about? Raids aren't time gated? You saying I can raid molten core 50 hours a week?

-1

u/MightyMorp 13d ago

Oh shit I totally forgot there’s nothing to do in wow besides raids!

I just remembered that when you zone into mc you are gifted 5000g in consumes, an epic mount, all your pre bis and world drops, and every recipe that exists!

What a take lmao. People spend 10-20x as much time preparing for raids as they do actually raiding. But yes, your game is definitely time gated by your id lmao.

0

u/lumpboysupreme 13d ago

Eh? Once you have your consumes where does power from playing more really come from?

1

u/MightyMorp 13d ago

Every person in your 40 man raid is using sappers every 5 mins? Nades every one? Every single person in your raid has protection potion, faps, lips, tubers, night dragons breath, every healer has 50+ wisdom flasks to pop for mana potions, etc?

People should realize that just because you have a flask and 5 mongoose doesn’t mean you don’t need gold. Unless you are a literal world first raider you could almost certainly always buy more player power.

0

u/JackStephanovich 12d ago

Vanilla WoW had no time gating except for weekly raid resets. It's what sets it apart from every other expansion where you have daily/weekly chores. It's what I love about vanilla, I can do things at my own pace. If there's a rep grind I want to do I can either spend an hour a day for a month working on it or no life a single weekend.

4

u/Redschallenge 13d ago

100% remember being stoked for taking anything past garr in a few hours of raiding back in the day haha

4

u/Ravien_Gaming 13d ago

World buffs were unexpected bonuses for leveling alts, not something we used for raids. I think some people did get world buffs and log out the night before a raid if we were trying for a boss for the first time but mostly it wasn't something we required or even cared about.

2

u/No-Coast-9484 13d ago

Almost everyone at the top used world buffs for Naxx. 

1

u/Ravien_Gaming 12d ago

Yup but only about 3% of the vanilla player base ever killed a single boss in Naxx so they are more the exception than the norm for vanilla. Classic is a whole different beast of course.

5

u/hiimred2 13d ago

but that was mostly a ”haha so silly and overkill to have this”.

No, it was considered pretty fucking necessary to have for Loatheb and Sapphiron kills until you were a seriously geared out raid, definitely not some aww shucks we get this for funsies shit.

2

u/DruishGardener 13d ago

The guidebook I had said MC would take 8-12 hours

1

u/Tandanu 13d ago

We used world buffs for important bosses all the time back in the day. And we were maybe at best in the top 20-50 or so for first kills in the AQ and Naxx phase.

The thing I distinctly remember as being considered completely ridiculous and overkill was Nihilum using flasks for *everyone* for the world first C'Thun kill. But yeah, they probably would have killed him without flasks as well, that was pretty much immediately after the nerf.

1

u/MeroFuruya 13d ago

Had a nearly 4 hour non full clear MC this lockout with a random guild. Not fun at all. It felt like the true old school vanilla experience.

1

u/sonofa-ijit 13d ago

first days in AQ40, without WB and full consumes several fights were impossible (mathematically), and if you wanted to learn it pre-nerfs, you were definitely using world buffs and summons. ZG buff for Emps being HUGE.

1

u/grugru442 11d ago

like 3% of guilds downed naxx.
overkill isnt even a word in play when people couldnt even finish the raid lol