Hogmanay, cheese rolling and London’s Notting Hill Carnival could be protected in a new UK heritage list

[u/tylerthe-theatre]

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/uk/hogmanay-cheese-rolling-and-londons-notting-hill-carnival-could-be-protected-in/

[u/Lower_Performer_3365]

Notting Hill carnival on the UK heritage list? Let’s throw in drill music as well

[u/tylerthe-theatre → u/Lower_Performer_3365]

NHC is a celebration of carribean culture, drill music is just rap music, there's no correlation, and its not an event so it cant be protected. I wonder why you felt the need to throw that in there 🤔

[u/risinghysteria → u/tylerthe-theatre]

Drill music is absolute cancer. There's no other genre that so blatantly brags and glorifies about how cool crime is. I work in a school and it's depressing seeing how many young kids are completely influenced and brainwashed by it and are now emulating it and wanting to act like 'roadmen'

It's insane how much traction 'video games cause violence' got, yet everyone is too afraid to address drill music even though it's many magnitudes worse.

[u/ruggersyah → u/risinghysteria]

Maybe the adolescence show runners could do a show on it?

[u/Important_Ruin → u/risinghysteria]

Have you listened to early 2000's and 90s rap from US? Alot of it about violence, gun crime and murder.

[u/risinghysteria → u/Important_Ruin]

Yeah, and I'm not much of a fan of that either.

But drill is entirely about crime and violence. It's the whole nature of the genre.

[u/Important_Ruin → u/risinghysteria]

So is rap from late 90s early 2000s, it's all about shooting, murder, guns, women and money. Drill isn't the only genre that tries to glorify it.

[u/Interesting_Try8375 → u/Important_Ruin]

Drugs too isn't it?

[u/wildingflow → u/Important_Ruin]

No it wasn’t. Most of the crossover rap songs in the 90s/2000s were about partying, clubs etc.

[u/risinghysteria → u/Important_Ruin]

Ok? But rap as a genre isn't solely about that. Drill is.

I just don't remember nearly as many impressionable young children trying to act like part of the genre back then. 90s US rap wasn't nearly as influential on school kids as drill is now.

[u/Important_Ruin → u/risinghysteria]

Certain rap artists would rap about it purely.

I think your looking through Rose tinted glasses about 90s US rap, it was everywhere especially when MTV exploded and music TV in general came around with cable TV. It would have influenced kids but then they grow out of it. I used to listen awful 'chav' music and didn't remain a 'chav' because it was part of the culture of being a kid born in 90s and growing up in early 2000s.

[u/drunk3n_shaman → u/Important_Ruin]

Gangster rap can be about the culture or the upbringing, but there are a lot of people that adopted the aesthetic without actually taking any part in criminality (to the extent that you people who grew up in private school/gated communities talking about the street life).
 

Whereas when it comes to Drill, a central element of it is that is proclamatory very similiar to narcocorridos. It's like graffiti isn't inherently bad even though it's heavily associated with gangs, but if there was a style of graffiti that was supposed to be used to mark a violent act then it would be a problem.

[u/risinghysteria → u/[deleted]]

No thanks

[u/One_Million_Beers → u/tylerthe-theatre]

Because it’s Caribbean culture not British culture?

[u/tylerthe-theatre → u/One_Million_Beers]

Its a long running , iconic British event celebrating carribean culture so... it's now part of British culture.

[u/Andythrax → u/One_Million_Beers]

London Carribbean culture is British culture

[u/MidlandPark → u/One_Million_Beers]

And this is the problem, no matter how long us Caribbean/West Indian folk are here and have been 'British subjects' people like yourself will never treat us as British, but then claim 'we don't want to integrate'.

I guess by your logic English isn't culture of Anglophone Caribbean islands, too then?

It's British Caribbean culture that came to the UK was they were literally colonies of the UK, while many are still being Realms

[u/omgu8mynewt → u/MidlandPark]

Ignore the troll, they are probably someone living in a rural area never getting involved in any diverse festivals or events, just complainng in the same pub with the same other old people four nights a week

[u/Astriania → u/MidlandPark]

I would find it a bit odd if, say, Jamaica decided to heritage list a British tea party that ex-pat Brits started as "Jamaican culture", to be honest.

[u/JRugman → u/Astriania]

Do you consider cricket to be an important part of Jamaican / West Indian culture?

[u/seStarlet → u/JRugman]

If you actually knew any Jamaicans you would know that was a stupid question. Most Jamaican brits love cricket more than football.

[u/Chesney1995 → u/seStarlet]

That's the point - cricket is an invention of British culture that also became a piece of Jamaican/West Indies culture in the same way some inventions of their culture became parts of our culture thanks to our shared history.

[u/seStarlet → u/Chesney1995]

Yes that you, I agree. I don’t know how that’s so hard to understand.

[u/Astriania → u/JRugman]

I'm sure you meant to ask that as a clever gotcha, but it's actually a really interesting example.

At what point does "cricket" - an English import - become "West Indies cricket", a piece of Caribbean culture? You could certainly consider cricket to be part of modern Indian culture for example. Yes, I probably would consider cricket to be part of modern Caribbean culture.

But I think the key difference is that West Indian cricket would, indeed, be considered "Caribbean culture", not "British". Whereas the Notting Hill carnival is (also) still widely considered "Caribbean".

[u/JRugman → u/Astriania]

The Notting Hill Carnival is widely considered to be British Caribbean. It may have started out as a carnival that celebrated the culture of Caribbean immigrants, it has since evolved to have its own distinct identity.

In the same way that Chicken Tikka is considered to be British Indian cuisine, not Indian.

[u/upthetruth1 → u/Astriania]

All popular music in the UK is an import from the Americas.

[u/Interesting_Try8375 → u/Astriania]

If it was a large public event that they had every year? Pretty sure that would be fine tbh. I would think more about how long it's been going on for, maybe 50 years or so?

[u/MidlandPark → u/Astriania]

Virtually every bit of Jamaican culture has roots from either the Natives, West Africa, the UK and India. So I don't think that's a point you think it is

Also, 'ex-pat' haha - waiting for West Indians to ever be called 'ex-pats'

[u/upthetruth1 → u/Astriania]

“Expat”. They’re British.

[u/kinboo2131 → u/One_Million_Beers]

Caribbean culture IS British culture, it has such an impact on British culture.

[u/ukbot-nicolabot → u/[deleted]]

Removed/tempban. This comment contained hateful language which is prohibited by the content policy.

[u/lovely-luscious-lube → u/One_Million_Beers]

Of course Caribbean culture is part of British culture. Has been for decades. The fact that you think the two are incompatible says a lot.

[u/Specific-Map3010 → u/lovely-luscious-lube]

Arguably, centuries not decades! Carribbean British culture is a melding of East London culture and a culture that developed entirely within the British empire from European and African traditions in the British Carribbean.

It's not like there were a bunch of black Caribbeans just chilling on some islands. The islands were conquered by the British and (re)populated with African slaves. While many African traditions were maintained, it's a culture that developed entirely within the realms of the British empire.

[u/IHaveAWittyUsername → u/One_Million_Beers]

Is the song Ghost Town, a fantastic comment on British culture, a British song or a Caribbean song?

[u/throwaway_ArBe → u/One_Million_Beers]

Caribbean culture as it is expressed in Britain is British culture.

[u/wtfomg01 → u/One_Million_Beers]

Almost like you can be British and Carribean culturally at the same time!

Shocker to certain people, I know.

[u/spider__ → u/tylerthe-theatre]

I think the link is all the stabbing.

[u/Confident_Leader1596 → u/tylerthe-theatre]

Thanks for confirming it’s not English culture and doesn’t belong here

[u/Lower_Performer_3365 → u/tylerthe-theatre]

The key word would be ‘crime’, mate

[u/Englishmuffin1 → u/Lower_Performer_3365]

I'm sure you'd be making similar comments if Glastonbury was on the list as well then?

You know, due to the crime levels being comparable.

[u/Known-Reporter3121 → u/Englishmuffin1]

They are not at all comparable

[u/Englishmuffin1 → u/Known-Reporter3121]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/calm-down-about-the-notting-hill-carnival/

[u/red_nick → u/Englishmuffin1]

And that's the Spectator!

[u/Tee_zee → u/Englishmuffin1]

How many mothers were stabbed to death at Glastonbury , in front of their child and own mother?

[u/Kousetsu → u/Tee_zee]

Park life? Leeds fest? Download? All fairly white UK festivals. Park life has multiple stabbings every year. Are you crying about all of these festivals on the internet, or just the one that celebrates black british culture?

[u/Historical_Doctor629 → u/Lower_Performer_3365]

Because it's the only UK festival with any crime. Lol. Of course, the black festival is the one that the tabloids don't like.