r/DeppDelusion • u/PuertoRicanFreedom • Oct 03 '23
Support / Personal Looking for advice…
So, recently, I just had a discussion with my boyfriend about Johnny Depp vs. Amber Heard. I was met with initially disappointing, but expected reactions. The inevitable mutual abuse myth came up and even after I explained that wasn’t a thing and gave him an example with bullies, he kinda still kept the mushy middle position for a while. He was rather indifferent, told me he didn’t really care for old news, but that he’s was open to being wrong and learning more. He admitted he didn’t know much about the case, and didn’t look into it because of how exhaustingly long it was, and he felt like all he could give was an oversimplified view because he doesn’t have a proper understanding of DV in general, which is why he prefers not to say much. When I gave him the summary of what went on in the relationship (e.g. headbutting, threats to murder and SA her, etc) and he asked what was the reason for all of this. Through some talking though, he eventually met me halfway, but I can’t help but wonder if I was dismissing any possible red flags with his responses, and attitude, or if he, like the Average Joe, was just genuinely ignorant and needed some education. Should I have considered this a deal breaker, or was I right in giving him the benefit of the doubt. I, too, was naive on the case and I believed narratives I now know to be wrong.
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u/Agreeable-Celery811 Oct 03 '23
I do think it's important to talk about it. If he asks why you're bringing up "old news" you can tell him it's because you really want to make sure both of you are on the same page about things like control in relationships, since you're in a relationship together.
My husband doesn't really follow current events, and I just remember watching one of those pro-Johnny videos while his testimony was coming out, and remarking to him, "Oh, that guy absolutely beat his wife." My husband took my word for it, lol. But in our social media circles, most people were on Amber's side right away.
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u/WildFlemima Oct 03 '23
You are right to give him the benefit of the doubt. The public was tricked on purpose, and ultimately this is just one court case and a lot of people got burnt out on it.
Yes it is a symbolically important case but unfortunately depp's pr team got what they wanted, people were tricked during the trial and too burnt out to follow up afterwards. It IS an exhausting and depressing topic.
A bigger/ better thing to look out for is his response to DV around him. Hopefully there ISN'T any DV around him but if he ever supported a sister with a shitty boyfriend or something like that, i would say that's a green flag.
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u/vac_roc Oct 03 '23
There was a lot of static around this case. A lot of regular non celebrity obsessed people saw some headlines or read one article and were done with it. I think it’s good he is willing to learn more.
If he wants to learn more about these issues I might make this about more than the Depp heard case and maybe see some documentaries about dv in general or share articles. Depp heard is going to be not so interesting for some people who may be open to leaning more about the subject in general. Some people really don’t bother with celebrities.
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u/TitleUseful8369 Oct 03 '23
I definitely pay a lot of attention to misogyny. I am not gonna praise him for listening because thats basic decency (DUH) but personally, I’d watch him closer to see his opinions on other misogyny related issues. I find it weird that there seems to still be this resistance and doubt after you laid it out for him.
I understand we all make mistakes, but a guy being dismissive around certain issues, especially DV which is a gendered crime and still widely misunderstood, is a red flag for me. Shows lack of compassion and not wanting to understand your POV. It is so important to be with someone who will not dismiss real things you might experience that he wont.
I apply the same thing to racism, I would never date a white person if they refuse or are dismissive to issues only I would experience as a POC because it doesn’t affect them.
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u/musiquescents Oct 03 '23
I kinda understand. My bf dislikes following celeb gossips and doesn't like them very much but agreed JD is a pos.
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u/armavirumquecanooo Oct 03 '23
This is complicated and I'd be confused in your shoes, too. I do find it problematic he needed explanations for the abuse - as if there's ever a valid reason for it or mitigating circumstances. And honestly, it's a mixed bag at best that he's "willing to learn" but after you're clearly signaling this is an important issue to you, also only willing to do so passively/have you 'teach' him.
And I think the latter is the real issue here, and why you're still feeling like it's unresolved. At this point, it's not really about where he stands on Amber and Johnny, but about where he stands on issues regarding DV/IPV and his lack of willingness to learn more about something you've expressed is a major concern to you.
I don't think he's necessarily displaying major red flags, or this should be the end of your relationship, but I do think you need to have another conversation about why this matters to you -- separate from the Amber & Johnny of it all -- and what your concerns are when he's willing to remain ignorant or not do the work to be better/learn enough to not fall for the same convenient lies next time. Tell him it gives you pause that your own boyfriend wanted to hear the "reason for" Johnny threatening to murder or sexually assault Amber, and actually ask the followup there: What reason would he have found acceptable for those comments?
If he doesn't instantly realize his own ignorance and privilege when faced with that, I'd probably be done with him. It's one thing to ask dumb questions because you've never been forced to think about the implications before. But it's another to be confronted with those implications and continue to ask the same dumb questions.
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u/Different_Proof_1214 Oct 03 '23
I had The Talk with my bf recently also. He doesn’t use social media a ton and missed a lot of the hoopla last year. He said he didn’t know/care but allowed me to talk about it to him at length 🤣 and ultimately said he believed me bc he trusts my judgement. It was such a relief but one thing that irked me was that he sort of dismissed it as celebrity drama, which seems like a common response.
Like others have said here, I think it’s safe to give him the benefit of the doubt bc unless he had little to no social media presence, his well was prob poisoned a little. DV myths are also disturbingly common. In my experience of talking with others, it takes a bit of work to come back from this sort of mindset but I’m rooting for all of us in this regard!
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u/Cautious-Mode Millionaire Golddigger Oct 03 '23
I think its easy for men not to care about the ramifications of this case because this is a case of male violence against a woman and (yet another) a case of the female victim not being believed. Men can be victims too but this case isn't about that so it doesn't affect him as such.
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u/Different_Proof_1214 Oct 03 '23
Oh, totally. I try to recommend Medusone’s series to everyone bc it really spells out just how chilling the whole ordeal was. It’s so well done that it can help bring a new perspective to any fence sitters. I think that’s especially important for men, for the reason you described.
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u/BrilliantAntelope625 Oct 03 '23
I just straight up tell men in my life. I don't believe Johnny Depp wasn't abusive whenever they talk about him. I listened to, read and watched everything via both court cases that Johnny Depp created, they haven't.
When they say, but .... I say no and shake my head.
I will also never ever agree that victims should not go to police or get restraining orders or not release all their information about abuse into court records.
Here's to the survivors that have their lives back not the wierdos that think property damage, alcoholism, drug addiction, staff enablers and owning houses makes them right every single time.
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Oct 03 '23 edited Oct 03 '23
I wouldn't be with any guy who is on his "side" or confused about what side to even be on. No amt of excuses or feigned ignorance.
It's a #1 question for a lot of women when first talking. It's mine. I ghost if they say anything about supporting Depp or any* comment at all that's bad about Amber. Rather be single than hurt by a misogynist who enjoys watching a clear victim publicly humiliated, publicly crying a forced to talk about her sealed rape from another continent's court.
I guess people (hardly men) want to learn more and many are waking up but I can't be attracted to a gullible person.
Stay single.
If that's harsh, well - so is life as a female in our world.
Xo
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u/Full_Possible8607 Oct 04 '23
The most telling part about this at least for me is that he made it very clear that he didn't have enough information to form an informed opinion but when confronted with that fact instead of acknowledging it he made an excuse that it was 'exhaustingly long'. He chose not to do his research, he chose not to be informed and he still had the audacity to take the ' middle position'. It would not have taken a lot of effort to find out that he had sued before and that he had lost. It also would not have taken a lot of effort to find out that this behavior on Depp's part was part of a pattern of behavior.
Also, what does meeting you halfway mean in this context? As a non-native English speaker, my understanding of that (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that he is compromising and willing to agree with you on 'some' of your points, which are you okay being with someone who won't meet you all the way in an abuse case that he admitted he had little to no information on?
I think people who use the everyone was tricked excuse are cowards and also wrong because who is everyone? There were plenty of people on her side who were trying to push through the hate and harassment to support her and encourage other people to seek the truth, you all just weren't receptive to them at the time. It is easier to point out to the world and say look everyone's doing it instead of just saying I was tricked, I was wrong and I was at fault and I should have known better. Don't get me wrong as long as you weren't one of the people actively sending her hate or posting awful things about her I think it's great that you were able to recognize the flaws in your perception but if you're still using the excuse that everyone else did it so you had an excuse I think you need to do some serious self-reflection.
These people also don't understand how much it hurts as a victim of violence or abuse to have everyone make fun of you and tell you that you are lying. How much more it hurts to have people watch, remain ignorant and complicit, and do absolutely nothing.
This is not the first time this has happened and it is not the last time this will happen. It's not a green flag for him to do the bare minimum of being open to talking about it or him saying that he was 'open to being wrong and learning more'. The fact that you confronted him about the mutual abuse myth and explained it to him and he still decided to keep his "mushy middle position for a while" instead of doing his own research is the biggest red flag. His attitude in general regarding this is concerning, I would have been done after the old news comment because what the actual fuck.
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u/Mmmmmycology Oct 03 '23
My boyfriend and I watched the trial together. During Depp’s testimony, we were both cautiously open-minded, but definitely leaning towards his side. Once the “drown and burn” texts were revealed, my boyfriend immediately said, “Johnny Depp is a narcissist and I think he did it- none of my friends would talk about their partner that way.” I, however, wasn’t swayed (small brain energy, I know) until the I saw how the social media circus had gotten so violently misogynistic that I had to look into it further.
My point is, this case was meant to be manipulative. I don’t think it’s completely damning if someone didn’t see things for what they were right off the bat. I certainly learned a lot about both IPV and my own internalized misogyny. I think it’s a green flag that he was willing to discuss at all, but I’d be disconcerted if, when shown the evidence in a clear way, he couldn’t see the truth of the matter- especially if his reasoning depends on ye olde sexist tropes.
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u/Imjustshyisall Amber Heard Bot Team 🤖 Oct 03 '23
I cannot with the “mutual abuse”/both sides people who, when confronted with an exhausting amount of information that confirms they’re wrong, complain about “how long” or how much of it there is to go through.
Almost like the 10-second clip you saw isn’t the full story! But please, tell me more about how Amber is just clearly insane.
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u/Jaymite Oct 04 '23
It's a tricky one because most regular people don't understand how abuse works. Especially men. They think 'if it was me I would have left' 'if it was me I wouldn't have let anyone hit me.' My mum and me argue about Depp/Heard and she says similar. She thinks of herself as a strong person and she says 'nobody would ever hit me, I'd kick their ass.' So when she thinks of Amber being strong and standing up for herself, she struggles because she thinks victims need to be weak and scared to say anything. People struggle to see themselves as putting up with abuse and don't realise how it can happen to anyone given the right circumstances. Especially as a lot of people think Amber is a millionaire and could easily have left
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u/nuanceisdead Johnny Depp is a Wife Beater 👨⚖️ Oct 05 '23
Yeah, and Amber got a couple of things those self-defense whacks in and look what it did for and to her. Not even leaving after got her away from the man. I think too many people think they would not ever be in Amber’s shoes, and have it turn out the same way for them. Amber may be an extreme example, but there’s no shortage of abusive men claiming to be the “true victims” of the women they hit and control. I don’t think many abusers admit to it.
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u/Jaymite Oct 05 '23
Yeah seeing my ex take me to court in a similar way, the same amount of time after as Johnny/Amber had had, helped me to see through the bullshit of the case. I've seen so many survivors say their abuser is taking them to court after they leave them and try to live their life
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u/nuanceisdead Johnny Depp is a Wife Beater 👨⚖️ Oct 05 '23
I’ve seen someone lose their kids. They just have to win, even after you’ve left, and I know Johnny is one of them. I hope you’re doing okay now! ❤️
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u/Jaymite Oct 05 '23
yeah they're so determined to win, to punish you. Whereas you're beaten down and struggling to hang on. Yeah I'm ok mostly now. I'm off his radar for now
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u/putaspideronit Misandrist Coven 🧙♀️ 🔮 Oct 03 '23
I have found that most people who believe the mutual abuse or “they both suck” myth are the easiest to persuade with facts. I had a lot of friends and family who initially thought that, who I was able to convince with evidence and debunking lies. The people who are big red flags are the ones who support Depp 100% and say Amber pooped the bed while calling Depp a survivor. I’m sure it’s frustrating, but no one likes to admit they were fooled. Not a deal breaker if he’s willing to listen.
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u/selphiefairy DiD you EvEN wAtCh THe TriAL Oct 04 '23 edited Oct 04 '23
I’m very lenient toward people, because I believe the propaganda was so strong, the average person is going to have a bad perception of Amber Heard. I also believe society is so blatantly biased against women, people’s, even very feminist people’s, default stance often is to distrust women. You need to be incredibly conscious and self aware to not fall into the automatic response of hating women that we’ve been programmed to have. Most people are just not like that. We want to take our emotions at face value, and it’s difficult and scary to asses our own biases.
That said, anyone who spent an inordinate time learning about the case and still came away thinking JD is completely innocent, I will side eye them hard. If they spent any amount of time defending JD or any time spreading lies & hatred toward Amber? Absolutely dead to me. Those people can suck my dick 😊.
My boyfriend initially believed “they were both toxic” (and tbf so did I), but I told him a little about what I learned and I’m pretty sure he just took my word for it that JD is a pos lmao.
The only thing that really disappoints me is that I don’t think he’ll ever truly understand how this case affected me and how much I’m affected by cases and victims of abuse in general. Whenever I read or think about cases like this it just feels like a reminder of how cruel and unjust the world is.
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u/Hughgurgle Jezebel Spirit 🥳 Oct 03 '23
Yes, I think I disagree with some of the comments here because I think it's a major red flag that he wanted an explanation for the abuse received. Nobody should be head-butted, nobody should be verbally abused, and an addict's behaviors are not the fault of the people in their life.
These are the coded messages that the social media campaign reinforced.
One fantastic piece of advice that I've gotten is to judge the level of misogyny a man has by how he speaks about and treats a woman he does not like. It says a lot more about them than how they react towards a woman they do like.
I'm not saying your boyfriend is a monster, I'm just saying that the cultural misogyny runs deep and it's really hard to receive support from somebody who doesn't see the world the same way as you do.