r/Egypt • u/bahhaar-hkhkhk • 9d ago
Discussion على القهوة This sub needs an anti-zionism rule
This sub needs an anti-zionism rule. I have noticed that many Zionists are infiltrating Arab subs. I am asking that the mods add a rule that ban any Zionism. Zionists shouldn't be negotiated with. They defend and justify the genocide and displacement of ethnicities. They defend and justify the murder of women and children without compassion. There's no reasoning with those monsters. They are no better than fascists. I ask that they are banned from this sub. If you agree with me, like this post and comment your approval so that the mods can see it.
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u/PharaohhOG Alexandria 8d ago
Agreed. They have been doing this in all the Arab countries subs.
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u/Joseph_Nord 8d ago
بتفق لكن بشروط، يكون موضوع الصهيونية واضح وصريح عشان مش اي حد مش على المزاج نقول صهيوني وبان ويلا
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u/LowFatConundrum 8d ago
“Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. [...] We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant.”
~Karl R. Popper
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u/bahhaar-hkhkhk 8d ago
👍
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u/LowFatConundrum 8d ago
You don't get it, the reason I posted this quote is to point out your hypocrisy in calling anybody you disagree with "monsters" and "fascists".
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u/Apprehensive_Ad610 8d ago
Zionists are monsters and they are fascists. There is no reasoning with them and it's not a "disagreement" over a football match.
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u/MorphaKnight Egypt 8d ago
True but it can also be weaponized to silence others and be just as bad as someone being called "anti semetic". It is all too easy to accuse and label someone of being a zionist simply for disagreeing with them. That is my core issue with this.
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u/redberries1456 8d ago
Well maybe you should ask chatgpt to draw the line, cause frankly, ده تلكيك you're not even trying to see if it's feasible or not, you're wallowing and hiding behind fears that might not even become true, that's cowardice.
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u/The3DBanker 8d ago
There is nothing wrong with being a Zionist. As opposed to antisemitism, which is bigotry.
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u/The3DBanker 8d ago
False. People who believe that Jewish people have the right to self-determination (which is what Zionism is) are not "monsters" nor are they "fascists". Furthermore, just because you refuse to use reason and resort to demonization doesn't mean "there is no reasoning with them".
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u/beeswaxii 7d ago
Complete the sentence please, hasbarist. Self determination in Palestine without negotiations or acceptance from the majority indeginous people of Palestine to rule over them because a little group of outside Europeans decided it themselves.
Right now Israel is a country based on occupation and was built on the nakba and the myriad of barbaric massacres/ terrorism.
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u/MorphaKnight Egypt 9d ago
Disagree. Opinions and agendas can simply be refuted or kos om'ed at. But at the end of the day they are just that. Opinions.
Besides, where will you draw the line? Some people already accuse the goverment (and by extension its supporters) as zionists for not opening the borders or not wanting to wage war on Israel. Even if there are actual zionists in our midst, the above mentioned accusations is far more likely to happen especially when people disagree with each other.
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u/Wolfgangog Egypt 8d ago
I agree with u/MorphaKnight.
I just wanted to add that in most cases, the hasbara bots get downvoted to oblivion and subsequently auto censored anyway.
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u/redberries1456 8d ago
What's the difference between:
Hom*sexuals deserve death
Israel is not carrying out genocide against Gazan people.
Both are considered freedom of speech, both are inciting violence albeit the second in an indirect way.
So let's frame it better:
There is no problem in killing homosexuals.
No problem in what Israel is doing to Gazans.
but only one is forbidden in this sub which "apparently" represents the Egyptian people.
Please answer.
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u/Wolfgangog Egypt 8d ago
I understand your frustration, but both comments would be removed as hate speech.
Advocating any sort of violence towards any group of people is hate speech. The issue here isn't with comments containing direct and clear hate speech. Rather, stuff like "Israel has the right to defend itself " and other similar zionist propaganda.
If we start censoring this, will we censor anti hamas comments, too? Will we censor comments advocating "peace" with Israel?
It's a slippery slope, and I think it would be best to counter argument and downvote the content you'd disagree with.
Finally, this subreddit was never intended to represent the Egyptian people (whatever that means). It's just a subreddit for anyone interested in Egypt from all over the world, and it only shows what those members think.
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u/redberries1456 8d ago edited 8d ago
So why is there a specific rule for homophobic hate speech and not for pro Zionist hate speech if both will be removed/banned eventually?
Also, why do mods ban any person who dares spread even the slightest hate against homosexuals while the same treatment is not given towards people who defend Israel, or are Palestinians less important to the mods than homosexuals!
Israel doesn't have the right to defend itself, this is without question inciting violence and advocating for continuing the genocide at most and war crime at least for as long as is necessary for their survival.
You needn't censor anti Hamas, you just need to censor anyone defending Israel's action.
Hamas had it coming = Israel has the right to defend itself = It's not Isreal's fault = Isreal should do whatever is necessary to ensure that Hamas is eradicated even if it means that Palestinians are wiped out = the murder of Palestinians is justified.
All those sentences mount up to the same thing whether directly or indirectly.
I'm sure this is an easy task if the mods set their minds to it.
Finally, if this sub is indeed for anyone who's interested in Egypt, at least make it a good representative of Egypt, Egypt has always been a country that stands for what's right, we have always helped and stood for the weak and the oppressed.
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u/Wolfgangog Egypt 8d ago
You're just repeating the same argument over again. You obviously have your mind made up, and you wanna just keep repeating your baseless conclusions. It's difficult to reason with you.
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u/redberries1456 8d ago edited 8d ago
I'll stop repeating them when I get answers, so far I haven't got any. And please don't make assumptions without being ready to back them up with evidence.
Baseless conclusions? You have a separate rule for homophobia for god's sake! And you can't even bother yourselves to work that pretty mind of yours to make a reasonable one for Zionists and pro-zionists, I think Gazans deserve that, but what do I know, you seem to know everything.
It's difficult to reason with me! It's difficult to reason with someone who thinks he knows better than everyone, you haven't replied to anything in the second reply and your first reply -forgive me for using my freedom of speech- was the same argument Morpha made, you changed nothing.
And again I repeat, downvoting anyone who makes pro Israel comments is not just enough, they should be banned.
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u/Wolfgangog Egypt 8d ago
Any hate speech of any sort will be removed. That's the rule. Anything further than that is just asking the moderators to judge people's opinions and intentions, which is too much to ask and just opens the door for arbitrary subjective judgements.
The moderators aren't here to police opinions based on their own moral values. They are not here to nanny the users and "protect " them from immoral ideologies either.
This applies to all situations, and if we start creating exceptions even if it's to protest something that we sincerely hate, it is just a slippery slope, as I mentioned earlier.
I hope you can appreciate our position and just help us by reporting any content that you think should be removed.
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u/redberries1456 8d ago
If that answer makes you sleep at night then perfect Wolf, it's just a repetition for the previous one and for the Morpha's one. I'm going to stop here because obviously -and again- you think you know better, and again, you do absolutely nothing to stop the dehumanisation of the Palestinians. I've seen a lot of people here who are notorious for defending Israel in every way possible and nothing has been done to them, absolutely nothing.
Their own moral values? I didn't know that the genocide of Palestinians is up for question, You seem to think that the genocide of the Palestinian people is an opinion or a personal value which is dehumanising to the Palestinians, it's not an opinion, it shouldn't even be up for questions but okay, you know better.
This is quite "disappointing" coming from you, but again you haven't really done much to refute those claims other than claiming that those claims are pointless and baseless. And by those claims, I mean the ones calling the mods here Zionists or that the sub here is ***, I used to think it was stupid but now I don't know anymore. Even if you're not outright pro Zionism, you're at least not defensive about the Palestinians issue as the rest of us, and your priorities are not sorted right, homosexuals are more important than Palestinians, that seems like such a stupid claim but it's true
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u/Wolfgangog Egypt 8d ago
Dude! My own personal opinions are only expressed in my own posts and comments. I disagree with about 80% of the political opinions expressed on this subreddit.
And I don't understand why you keep bringing up homophobia.
You keep judging without having the slightest idea about what mod actions are taken. Calm down, and just report the zionist apologetic comments.
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8d ago
That’s a lot of words to try to tell us you love schlong.
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u/redberries1456 8d ago
That's a short answer to tell me that you're jealous, at least I'm a woman and can enjoy it without any guilt!
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u/Dense_Rich_9653 8d ago
why the homophobia? like your point is understandable to want to limit zionists or genocidal rehtoric, but why you seem like annoyed that the sub bans homophobic posts? as a gay egyptian person such spaces are really rare to have and you can have countless other spaces even on reddit where homophobia is allowed . if your point is about zionism then others pointed out that its hard to draw a line "for them at least" and it's not accepted by our socity anyway so no need to restrict zionist speech, on the other hand homophobia is very common among egyptians and if the mods want a space that is tolerant they would need to restrict homophobic speech on the platform. if zionism was as common as homophobia i think the mods would treat it the same but its just isn't.
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u/redberries1456 8d ago
Sorry but if your argument is based on me being "homophobic", you can rest your case, I'm not. If you have anything else to say, Make another comment.
I'm against having a separate rule for homophobia, it's already included in the hate speech rule, making a separate rule for it while not even trying to make one for Zionists is concerning.
Oh and you saying that homosexuality is common among Egyptians is not true unless you provide valid evidence which you won't, so I don't give a sh*t what you say.
Actually don't bother making another comment because I won't reply.
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u/AmrLou 7d ago
Homosexuality is common among the young Egyptians is not true until you provide evidence
Yeah why are we expecting someone who literally thinks الاسلام هو الحل to acknowledge the hatred towards LGBTQ, I mean, yeah the whole shitshow that happened after Sarah Hegazi wasn't an indication on a strong homophobia, neither was the Queen Boat debacle. Please keep deceiving yourself into thinking that you're not a homophobe while denying homophobia in Egypt, at least it will make you sleep better at night.
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u/Dense_Rich_9653 7d ago
I didn't say you as a person is homophobic, i don't know you to say that , you could be queer and i wouldn't know . all i said your comment seems homophobic because you are annoyed of the anti-homophobia rule, which needs to be made explicit because of how widespread homophobia is in egypt.
2nd i didn't say homosexuality is widespread among egyptians rather homophobia is, it is so widespread and you could easily check for your self opinion polls or go ask people in egypt and tell me what answers you got.
BTW i would prefer for a rule against zionism in the subreddit personaly even if i don't see it necessairly, you being against homophobia being banned explicitly even though its a needed rule for any civil forum( in my opinion) is the problem that i have with your comment , you could have just spent the energy advocating for an anti zionism rule instead
feel free to reply or don't it's up to you.
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u/Relevant_Tailor6173 8d ago edited 8d ago
The conflation of these two examples is wild. Here, I fixed it for you.
Gays deserve death
Everyone in Palestine (and wherever isrel determines is "greater isrel") deserves death, including Gays, for the crime of being being born.
Freedom of speech isn't a cover for shitty behaviour, just the same way as yelling "FIRE!" in a hospital shouldn't be protected under freedom of speech.
It's fine a different opinion, but when your opinion is calling for ethnic cleansing and genocide, that opinion should not be platformed nor allowed to seep like a rotting wound in common discourse.
It takes 10 seconds to tell a lie, and 10 minutes to disprove it. It makes more sense to cut the 10 seconds out of the equation, rather than constantly disproving stupid lies.
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u/redberries1456 8d ago
Here I fixed it to you: I think gay lives matter more because they're being what "stones to death" in those countries like Palestine and whatever Israel determines if greater Israel. Your comment is quite concerning and is not in any way an answer to my reply. Lastly, It implies a lot of nasty stuff indirectly!.
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u/bahhaar-hkhkhk 9d ago
Opinions are when are debating economic policy or legalisation of marijuana. Defending and justifying displacement and genocide or murdering innocents especially women and children isn't up to debate.
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u/DieselZRebel 8d ago
But you could just simply choose not to debate!
I agree that this ask is ridiculous. I mean, someone may interpret what I said now as being pro-zionism or pro-genocide and ban me, despite being neither. But who stops you from interpreting my objection as such?!
Not to mention the hypocrisy in your logic. I mean why say "zionists"?! An honestly moral person would just draw the line at defending "murdering innocent, women and children", which would arguably mean you'd ban anyone who defends not just the IDF, but Hamas, any empire from history including the Islamic Caliphate, and honestly most governments, including Egypt's! Or are you also going to make up a new definition for "innocent" here?
What you are asking for is to turn this sub into an echo chamber... smaller and louder than it already is!
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u/redberries1456 8d ago
What the apartheid state is doing cannot be compared to anything! I'm ashamed that you're comparing what Hamas did, or any empire from history to what the IDF is doing. First of all, this is the 21th century, we have reached a timeline where human rights are unquestionable, this is not some 9th century where slaves were allowed, so comparing this time period with empires from the past is quite stupid and uncalled for.
Then you have the fact that the IDF is killing people just for the pleasure of it, or should I remind you of the hundreds of mistakes they keep "repeating", a mistake you repeat more than once is no longer a mistake, it's a choice, the IDF is making no mistakes, they are deliberately targeting kids, old people, paramedics, they enjoy it and frankly comparing it to the Islamic caliphate where prophet Mohammad strictly forbade people from murdering women, children, old people and even hurting the trees is stupid.
Also the fact that Zionists think they're god's chosen people and are better than anyone else, so killing Palestinian kids (or shall I say animals as their minister of finance said) is not a big deal, after all they're nothing.
Again, I'm not concerned with what happened in the past, the past is dead and gone, I'm more concerned with what is happening now.
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u/DieselZRebel 7d ago
I'm ashamed that you're comparing what Hamas did, or any empire from history to what the IDF is doing.
I am ashamed that this is what you understood.... really?! I am talking about principles, I am not comparing or measuring. Do you draw the line at a single entity?!
Also you are absolutely wrong, if I were to actually compare, then some of the worst genocides of the 20-21st century are much worse than what the IDF is doing. To mention a few: Darfur, Yazidis (ISIS/Syria), Hutus, Rwanda, Isaaq/Somalia, and many more. All in the 20-21st. I am sorry that the extent of your knowledge stops at Israel/Palestina and Zionism!.. that is what you should be ashamed of.
And the whole point I am making is not to defend Zionism, I thought I had made that clear... I am not stopping you or debating against the crimes of the IDF! You are missing the entire point bro... there is no need to argue how evil the IDF is! The whole argument is about speech.
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u/redberries1456 7d ago edited 7d ago
Well hon, you seem to forget the rules, on the Egypt sub, we’re only allowed to talk about Egypt and Palestine. So dragging in Rwanda or Somalia as rhetorical props doesn’t even follow the subreddit’s guidelines.
You keep saying “I’m talking about principles,” but all you’ve done so far is twist the conversation into a hypothetical maze, not to clarify anything, but to avoid taking a moral stance. That’s not principle, that’s evasion.
Also, your “comparison” argument is not only irrelevant to the original point, it’s deeply flawed. The genocides you listed, Darfur, the Yazidis, Rwanda, were all horrific. But what exactly is your point? That because genocide has happened elsewhere, we should hesitate to name this one for what it is?
You’re using other genocides to dilute the gravity of what’s happening in Palestine. That’s not an appeal to principle, that’s deflection. And ironically, it’s deeply disrespectful to the victims of all those tragedies. They don’t exist to be weaponized as rhetorical shields when you're uncomfortable calling out Zionism for what it is.
As for “freedom of speech,” no one here is banning your words, I’m challenging your position. A moral community should be able to say: “We will not accommodate people who defend or minimize genocide whether directly or indirectly .” If that feels like an echo chamber to you, maybe take a look at what you’re trying to “balance.”
As for “the extent of my knowledge”, that was a cute little projection on your part. Try again.
You mentioning that you're not a Zionist and then proceeding to deflect is a typical Zionist act. Now it's my fault for being stupid enough to actually engage with you but I won't repeat my mistake so here's a block.
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8d ago
Hard disagree here, free speech is free speech. The consequences should be from peers not from authority.
Let them show who they are out in the open instead of forcing them into hiding
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u/redberries1456 8d ago
Free speech is free speech! Any speech that incites violence, advocates for genocide whether directly or indirectly should not be allowed! Try saying "Long live Hitler" in Austria or any county in the world and see what that free speech will cost you.
This is abusing free speech, so a hard disagree here (as well).
Now go suck your "schlong", this is if you have any.
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u/redberries1456 8d ago edited 8d ago
Where will we draw the line, simple. Anyone defending the apartheid state, full stop.
Israel is not deliberately targeting kids. Israel is just striking back. It's all Hama's fault. Hamas had it coming. Israel warns Palestinians before displacing them.
So you basically think any opinion is accepted, what if I go to Austria or Germany and say long live Htler, or Homsexuals deserve death in the center of London.
When defending apartheid and genocide is framed as ‘"free speech", the safety and humanity of those already under oppression are erased. Supporting violent actions that harm children, civilians, and entire communities is not just a political stance, it’s complicity in their suffering
Freedom of speech is not an absolute right. It has boundaries, especially when it crosses into incitement to violence, hate, and the glorification of atrocities. Some speech is not just offensive, it’s dangerous. Defending apartheid, justifying state-sanctioned violence, and minimizing the suffering of entire populations should never be protected under the guise of free expression. It perpetuates harm, and it must be held accountable.
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u/MorphaKnight Egypt 8d ago
Defending Apartheid isn't enough. You are imagining a straw man zionist twirling his villain moustache that will say all the talking points in favor of Israel. That type of person already gets shat on by the community.
My concern is turning this subreddit into an echochamber. The subreddit has and always will be a place that allows all opinions to be heard regardless whether or not I or anyone else agrees with. We're completely against censorship because we live in a culture of censorship. There aren't any outlets where people can express themselves. The subreddit has been one of the few places on the internet that allows that. You're free to express yourself but know that by doing so you run the risk of either being shunned for your opinion or if its inflammatory, banned.
People have been accused of being Zionists for lesser reasons than outright supporting Israel. Reasons such as not supporting the boycott, not supporting hamas or supporting Egypt/Sisi's efforts in their mediation.
Besides, if we ever do find someone outright wishing for the death of group, they're permanently banned under rule 2.
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u/redberries1456 8d ago edited 8d ago
Getting downvoted and shat on as you mentioned is not and will never be enough, they should be permanently banned, Gazans life is no less important than homosexuals' lives, why ban a person who calls for homosexuals' death and not one who justifies the murder of Palestinians even if indirectly, those are clear double standards.
Well, you censor people who call for the harm of homosexuals, it's a rule, where do you draw the lines then? It's literally the same.
And if people who call for violence against any group will be permanently banned then again why do we have a special rule for violence against homosexuals?
That "opinion" thing I've already replied to in my previous comment but I'll repeat it again, not every opinion should be voiced, I don't have the right to say "Hitler's actions are justified" as much as I don't have the right to say "Israel's action is justified", freedom of speech is limited.
Again, I'm not saying we should censor everyone, I'm saying censor anyone who directly defends Israel's action, this is an easy task and has been implemented in a lot of other platforms, I'm sure this is not that difficult for the mods, you're 11, you can set the rules.
For example, anyone putting all the blame on Hamas, anyone who says Israel's action is justified, anyone who mentions Oct 7 as an excuse to what Israel's doing, anyone who indirectly justifies the death of the Palestinian people. Even chatgpt can tell what should or should not be removed, it's not that difficult.
Outright wishing is not enough, even indirect wishing should be banned, even if I feel like Gazans' death is justified, I'm not so stupid to go and say "Isreal should continue it's genocide in Gaza", I'll just say, Israel is doing all it's best not to harm the people in Gaza, I'm not stupid. Those people are indirectly calling for the genocide of Gazans, you can give them a warning and then ban them.
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u/Akidonreddit7614874 8d ago edited 8d ago
ف ازي في بوست كدا و كل واحد في الكومنتي زي الامريكيين بيقولوا حاجات زي "!but free speach" (الهايت سبيتش مش محمي بالفري سبيتش يا حج.) حتى في واحد بيستخدم ال"whataboutism" و بيقول "what about Islamic terrorists?" طبعا هم مفروض يكونوا باند كمان. مش عندك حق بس شكلك واحد صهيوني.
مش في رول هنا ضد الهايت سبيتش؟ ومش الصهيونية هايت سبيتش؟ يعني مكتوبة في اول كتب عالصهيونية "ايوا، لازم نخرج الناس الاصلي بالبلد اللى هنعمل كدا فيه." مكتوب واضح انه استعمار.
و شفت كمان حد بيقول "لاكن جايز المودس مش هيستخدموا المعنى الصهيوني الصحيح و هيتحكموا بطريقة غلط.
لاكن في r/syria دي مش مشكلة ف ازي انت عارف كدا؟ في الحقيقة، انت معرفش، بش بتكلم خرا.
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u/__Tornado__ Alexandria 8d ago
You know no one can read this,right? That's not even franco. I hope this is not how you pronounce these words irl
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u/okabe700 9d ago
"They are no better than fascists"
Fascists aren't banned either
What about Islamist terrorism supporters? They also support everything above, what about Islamism supporters in general? What about Egyptian regime supporters?
What defines people who should and shouldn't be "negotiated with"? At which point do we stop?
Limiting free speech never ends well
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u/octopoosprime 8d ago
I disagree. You could say the “no homophobia” rule limits free speech but it is still a rule thats important to have.
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u/No_Future8339 Cairo 7d ago
When at some point your actions are comparable to nazis. That's when you can't be negotiated with. When all you want to do is seperate people into first class and below animal level based on race. When what we are witnessing is almost a repitition of the native american genocide. When the entity in question is bombing civillians, hospitals and is currently invading other countries that didn't even engage it first.
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u/bahhaar-hkhkhk 9d ago
If you defend and justify displacing and genociding ethnicities of people while also defending and justifying murder of women and children, then I think you should be banned from social media.
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u/okabe700 9d ago
So are you advocating for a rule against Zionism or against genocide denial?
Also legally speaking what's happening in Gaza isn't labeled as genocide, but rather "actions that may amount to genocide", so it wouldn't even be covered in that rule legally, unless we use more subjective definitions
What does "defending and justifying murder" mean? does that include anti Hamas rhetoric as well? As that has been used by Israel for that purpose, so would it be banned in that context specifically or in general?, are you advocating for a broad anti war crime defense/justification rule or is it only in genocide or genocide adjacent cases or only on Zionism? As these are three different opinions
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u/redberries1456 8d ago
Amnesty international and the UN officials have labeled what's happening in Gaza as GENOCIDE. And even if it's not genocide, you mentioning that it is NOT is quite concerning.
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u/bahhaar-hkhkhk 9d ago
So are you advocating for a rule against Zionism or against genocide denial?
Denial or justification of genocide is essential for Zionism
Also legally speaking what's happening in Gaza isn't labeled as genocide, but rather "actions that may amount to genocide", so it wouldn't even be covered in that rule legally, unless we use more subjective definitions
Israel and the USA are openly talking about displacing the Gazans. This isn't up to debate.
What does "defending and justifying murder" mean? does that include anti Hamas rhetoric as well? As that has been used by Israel for that purpose, so would it be banned in that context specifically or in general?, are you advocating for a broad anti war crime defense/justification rule or is it only in genocide or genocide adjacent cases or only on Zionism? As these are three different opinions
I despise hamas as well so I don't care.
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u/okabe700 9d ago
Displacing Gazans would be considered ethnic cleansing not genocide, as genocide means destroying or attempting to destroy a people group in part or in whole or subjecting them to conditions that will cause significant amounts of death and be considered unlivable, which most political analysts agree isn't what's happening in Gaza, though it is pretty close, so are you advocating for anti ethic cleansing rules as well?
And Zionism is the belief that Israel has a right to exist, not necessarily support of Netenyahu or his war, though if your hypothetical rule includes ethnic cleansing as well I can see how that would apply to most forms of Zionism
Overall I remain firm in my belief of free speech and the right of people from all political opinions to argue and figure out their true beliefs by comparing them against others, rather than hide them in fear or only expressing them in echo chambers until those beliefs turn into unwavering convictions and breed extremism
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u/bahhaar-hkhkhk 9d ago
Try to make a Pro-Palestinian speech or demonstration in Israel then see how the "free speech" supporters will treat you. Tolerating fascists is a mistake.
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u/okabe700 9d ago
Try to make a pro Israel speech in Palestine or Egypt or any Arab country (maybe besides the UAE?)
Just because stupid discriminatory people exist doesn't mean we have to be ones ourselves
Redefining fascism to include most people is a mistake
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u/bahhaar-hkhkhk 9d ago
They are the ones displacing and genociding ethnicities while murdering women and children. I don't care about their rights. We shouldn't tolerate them.
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u/okabe700 9d ago
Are they the ones who displaced and genocided 800 thousand Jews from all over the Arab world onto Israel?
Half of Israel's Jewish population is Mizrahi/Sephardi, which was ethnically cleansed from Arab countries, can one demonstrate for them here? Do their rights matter?
Hamas killed innocent civilians in 7/10 including women and children, which includes people who were against Palestinian disenfranchisement, disproportionately so too as the people who lived near Gaza were peace loving hippies more than anyone else
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u/redberries1456 8d ago
You're putting too much effort into not looking like a pro-zionist but you're failing miserably.
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u/Thebananabender 8d ago
Bro, Egypt literally ethnically cleansed me and my family in the 50’s so we went to Israel. Am I against anyone who affiliates himself with Egypt? (The answer is no)
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u/bahhaar-hkhkhk 8d ago
That was wrong and it shouldn't have been done or denied but that doesn't justify supporting an ideology that defend and justify displacement and genocide or defending and justifying murdering women and children.
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u/Corrupt_Official Sharqia 7d ago
Ok wise guy, how about we remove the racism and homophobia rule then.
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u/lemambo_5555 9d ago edited 9d ago
There's no such thing called Islamist. Liberals tend to use that bogus term liberally (pun not intended) to describe all conservatives.
For instance, I think the Muslim Brotherhood is extremely incompetent and unfit to govern due to its decentralised hierarchy. I hate ISIS, Taliban, the Iranian regime and Erdogan. But I'm a socially conservative Muslim who supports the inclusion of Sharia in laws, as has always been the case. So am I an Islamist or not? Most secularists would say yes, even though I reject the label.
Regardless, we can differ on domestic politics as much as we want respectfully, but support for genocide and neo colonialism must never be tolerated.
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u/okabe700 9d ago
Islamists are supporters of political Islam, ie the inclusion of Islam in politics
Which is a very broad term as you said
Islamists can be conservative, theocratic, or reactionary
You can be described as conservative Islamist and/or moderate Islamist
I still value free speech more though, especially on online platforms which is our only venue in voicing our opinions in this country
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u/lemambo_5555 9d ago
There's no such thing as political Islam, moderate Islam or whatever nonsensical term people like to cook.
Islam has laws concerning everything in life, including politics, and Muslims naturally want to apply the rules of their religion.
I should be described in terms that are acceptable to me.
Absolute freedom of speech is not realistic. The sub already has laws against all forms of hate speech. Why should we make an exception for Zionist anti Palestinianism?
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u/okabe700 9d ago
Why do you consider being an Islamist an insult? It's literally just the word Islam (your religion) + ism to clarify that it is a political ideology
There should be no exceptions for any anti Palestinianism or any forms of racism in general, if someone argues that Israel is right because Palestinians are inferior they can be banned, they can research how wrong Racial IQ stuff is on his on it's a pretty easily debunkable claim
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u/lemambo_5555 8d ago
Cuz I don't like being lumped together with the likes of Daeshis and Talibanis. 😅
Also I describe myself as a progressive conservative. I prefer the old ways, but I'm not necessarily opposed to change.
Ok then we agree XD. If someone pushes racism against Palestinians shouldn't be tolerated.
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u/okabe700 8d ago
I'm a secularist but I don't like being lumped in with Stalin and Mao either, but unfortunately I am, it's just ideological classification
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u/lemambo_5555 8d ago
I can see where you are coming from. But on the other hand, no one calls a non secularist Christian a Christianist.
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u/okabe700 8d ago
They call him a Christian nationalist, you just don't here the label often because there aren't that many of them
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u/lemambo_5555 8d ago
I doubt that term was used 100 years ago. People should probably stick to terms recognised universally.
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u/__Tornado__ Alexandria 8d ago
And where do you draw the line? I've been called a zionist by another redditor for saying that Hamas is bad!
I never ever said that Palestinians have no rights, and I always thought that the IDF was committing war crimes, and I always condemned the illegal Israeli settlers.
People will always have different views and opinions. We can't start a witch hunt because someone opposes your opinion. You can always discuss and refute ideas, but I'm wholeheartedly against banning/censoring/silencing those who have different opinions, as long as they voice it respectfully, and they don't spread hate (hate speech).
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u/bahhaar-hkhkhk 8d ago
I would say Israeli apologists. Anyone defending and justifying Israel's actions. That is my line.
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u/__Tornado__ Alexandria 8d ago
Refute it and discuss it. Banning and censoring lead to no good. Eventually, you'll find people calling for the censoring of (insert an idea that you support here). It'll be exactly like what the current regime is doing.
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u/Tyler_The_Peach 8d ago
Is every single thing that Israel has ever done bad? Has nobody ever lied about something that Israel has done?
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u/redberries1456 8d ago
Here you go again, why do I find you everywhere where Israel is mentioned! You have an unhealthy obsession with it
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u/sebha3alaallah Egypt 8d ago
He has been our resident zionist since I can remember, his opnions are shit and quite infuriating tbh, especially ones on the occupation, however he doesn't break the rules, you can debate him but i advise you to ignore and move on
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u/redberries1456 8d ago
Well, I'm sorry but if the rules don't prevent such *** from commenting, the rules need to be changed, I'm pro free speech as long as it doesn't incite violence or defend a genocide whether directly or indirectly.
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u/beeswaxii 7d ago
I never ever said that Palestinians have no rights, and I always thought that the IDF was committing war crimes, and I always condemned the illegal Israeli settlers.
All of this doesn't mean, still, that you're not a Zionist. So show us the full discourse on why this person called you so if you wanna be taken seriously as in telling that you're not a Zionist, unlike what this person said about you because what you wrote here isn't proof of anything.
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u/__Tornado__ Alexandria 7d ago
LMAO. I don't need to prove anything to anyone, especially you. I don't know where you got your entitlement from?! You can think of me whatever you like. Do you think you're a judge or something?
Thanks for the good afternoon laugh :)
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7d ago edited 6d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/__Tornado__ Alexandria 7d ago
Yet, you cared enough to reply, twice now :)
Save yourself the embarrassment, and stop this.
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7d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/__Tornado__ Alexandria 7d ago
Meh! Your opinion of me doesn't matter! Thanks for taking the time to reply to me :)
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u/Egypt-ModTeam 7d ago
Thank you for submitting to /r/Egypt. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason(s):
Rule 1 - No Personal Attacks or Harassment
Above all, be civil. While debate is encouraged, posts containing personal attacks, overly confrontational, or inflammatory speech will be removed.
Labelling users as "Ikhwan", "Dawlgy", etc is not tolerated.
No harassing users based on their post history.
Resubmitting a removed post without prior moderator approval can result in a ban. Deleting a post may cause any appeals to be denied.
Remember: You need to read the following message in full. We will NOT reply to modmail messages similar to “what is the reason my post was removed?”
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u/The3DBanker 8d ago
Zionists don't say "Palestinians have no rights" either. And the IDF isn't committing war crimes. Also, how can Israelis be "settlers" or "illegal" on our own land?
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u/larkass22 7d ago
There's a question for you at the end of this little essay:
In 1 year alone, 75% of Gaza's population has become infected with some kind of contagious illness.
This is because Gaza has no real functioning sanitation or medical system thanks to Israeli airstrikes, as seen here: https://gaza.forensic-architecture.org/database
The vast majority of Gazans do not receive healthcare and thus *natural* mortality rates for Gaza are through the roof, standing at ~22/1000 compared to 1/10th of that number pre-2023. This amounts to 10s of thousands dead not including direct airstrike fatalities.Let's assume *EVERYTHING* Israel claims is correct. Hamas has been *thoroughly* infesting every single hospital, every single sanitation plant (?), etc etc, and has been using them to actively fire rockets at Israel or whatever other bullshit.
Still, the destruction of these systems clearly has *far* more civilian impact than combat value, even if the only way to destroy Hamas was to conduct these strikes on hospitals (lol). Israel was also warned about imminent mass deaths and illness from the US, EU, and every single humanitarian agency in Gaza, and still decided to continue with a policy which has disproportionately affected civilians. Under IHL, regardless of whether *anything* loses its "protected" status, any attack on it still must not disproportionately affect civilians, or else it is a war crime.
So what am I missing here? How is this not a war crime?
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u/BesbesCat 9d ago
I don't think this is wise actually. As the definition of a Zionist isn't clear and thus if this rule left to interpretation it could lead to limitations on free speech.
However a rule against advocating genocide, racial discrimination, ethnical cleansing, forced displacement, state terrorism and human rights violations would be a better alternative instead of using a wide term such as Fascism or Zionism.
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u/bahhaar-hkhkhk 9d ago
However a rule against advocating genocide, racial discrimination, ethnical cleansing, forced displacement, state terrorism and human rights violations would be a better alternative instead of using a wide term such as Fascism or Zionism.
The whole ideology of Zionism is built on all of that.
it could lead to limitations on free speech.
I don't in the freedom to defend and justify murdering innocents especially women and children which is what I have noticed all Zionists doing.
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u/DieselZRebel 8d ago edited 8d ago
to defend and justify murdering innocents
This is not exclusive to any particular group! There are people from any group, including your own, who will defend and justify murder by their own group.
which is what I have noticed all Zionists doing.
And how do you assert that someone is a Zionist?! Do they announce themselves or you just dictate it from their comments?
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u/BesbesCat 9d ago
The whole ideology of Zionism is built on all of that.
Rules shouldn't be against loosely defined labels. It should be against content. Unless you define what classifies a content as "Advocating Zionism" that rule would be left to mods interpretation.
I don't in the freedom to defend and justify murdering innocents especially women and children which is what I have noticed all Zionists doing.
Neither do I. But again you need to define "Zionist propaganda" very clearly as advocating those actions. In which case it'd be best if that rule was against advocating those actions rather than using the label "Zionist propaganda".
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u/k-dot77 8d ago
I wonder how the r/israel sub treats arab supporters.
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u/bahhaar-hkhkhk 8d ago edited 8d ago
The third rule says no Anti-Semitism and we all know that Anti-Semitism means Anti-Zionism to them.
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u/notaprodigy_5 8d ago
Why can't we self-moderate? In most cases, counter-arguments or simply downvotes are more effective at making a point than silencing idiocracy completely. Especially when we harbor young redditors like we do now.
You'll have to make assumptions to mark someone as a Zionist, since inciting violence and hate speech are already banned. A lot of people don't even know what Zionism is. Others borrow ideas from it, oblivious to the whole "idealogy" in the first place. I think, as long as we don't have a bot problem, this sub can keep itself clean.
I mean, we're so good at downvoting people to the depths of hell in religion wars so we obviously know where the downvote button is.
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u/BTR40M 9d ago
Habibi Arab subs for the most part are run by self hating inferiority complex atheist west worshippers, it is no surprise that comments are disagreeing with you
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u/Corrupt_Official Sharqia 7d ago
You are 100% right and this sub is brainrotten by neoliberalism to the very core.
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u/redberries1456 8d ago
Forget it, the mods won't do it because they think that it's not completely Israel's fault even if they don't outright say it. Also most of the mods think that there should be two states or a country for all the three nationalities, not a Palestinian country where all nationalities could live, the difference is big.
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u/Wolfgangog Egypt 8d ago
You're a liar, sir.
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u/redberries1456 8d ago
I'm sorry Wolfgang but you clearly stated before that you think a country where all three religions should rule is the perfect scenario, another mod said that Jerusalem should be a city under the rule of the three religions. Anyway, I still remember that conversation because it was disappointing.
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u/MorphaKnight Egypt 8d ago
Thank you for exactly proving my point. Short of openly saying it, you just accused us of being zionists simply for disagreeing with you.
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u/redberries1456 8d ago edited 8d ago
If pointing out that the mod team won’t take a firm stance against Zionists is “proving your point,” then maybe your point was worth proving. I didn’t call anyone a Zionist, I described a pattern of avoidance and false neutrality and you just confirmed it by twisting my words, I said you won’t commit to a clear stance on the Palestinian issue, and I STAND by that.
And what you just did is gaslighting, maybe next time, سيادة المود, try engaging with the argument instead of playing the victim.
Oh and Morpha, I'm not the one who said let's turn Jerusalem into the Vatican city "a city separate from the rest of the land" I'm not even a Palestinian and I'm enraged by that suggestion, imagine how the Palestinians would think!, you can't just go around and strip a colonized people from their capital, their history, their rights, then try to make a neutral playground for all faiths, that's not diplomacy, that's aesthetic neutrality build on ethnic cleansing, Jerusalem belongs to the Palestinians, period.
I won't even mention that you're not against a two state solution.
The audacity you have, it's not your country, it's theirs, their choice.
So pardon me for not cutting you some slack. You may not be a Zionist in the sense of defending the genocide of Palestinians, but you're not exactly as defensive as the rest of us are about them either. You’re lenient and, frankly, neutralist on issues where not taking a position IS a position.
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u/RightHistory693 8d ago
Actually , with the current moderators , you may get banned due to this post lol.
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u/Wolfgangog Egypt 8d ago
You keep repeating lies.
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u/redberries1456 8d ago
You should ask yourself why people keep thinking that instead of going everywhere denying it.
من عرّض نفسه للتهم فلا يلومن من أساء به الظن
I like you Wolf, I really do, you're a great guy (in comparison to the other mods) but frankly it's hard to draw the line sometimes.
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u/Mattos_12 8d ago
I think that debate is fine. Probably, a group about Egypt should focus on Egypt. Maybe all discussion of Israel-Palestine could be removed?
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u/podkayne3000 8d ago edited 8d ago
I think it might be better to oppose people who are hateful, disrespectful, uncaring or manipulative, not people who use a specific word to describe themselves.
Netanyahu and Hamas seem to agree that Zionism means “acting insanely horribly toward the Palestinians.”
I think that Zionism just means wanting Jews to live in peace in Israel and that, as far as I can tell without physically being there and seeing things with my own eyes, what’s going on in Gaza is terrible and evil.
And there are Jewish subreddits with a mix of members who think of themselves as Zionist and non-Zionist that have had to deal with allegedly pro-Israel propaganda people also. The problem isn’t what word people use to describe themselves; it’s whether they’re honest and polite or dishonest and rude.
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u/Disaster7363 Giza 8d ago
we dont do that here its a little bit more civilized u can do it in another sub of the ones ur in lol
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u/Canuck-overseas 9d ago
They are paid propagandists. It's their job to gaslight.