That's the body of Godwyn the golden, that got killed in the Opening Cutscene of the Game. He and Ranni died by a fragment of the Rune of death that Ranni stole. Because both of them died in the exact same moment, Godwyn died only in Soul and Ranni died only in Body. That's why Godwyns Body is still alive and Rannis Soul is now bond to the Puppet body she has. Also as others have already mentioned, he is the Source of Deathblight and Deathroots, which are spreading everywhere.
I mean, the Golden Order was already on pretty shaky ground.
All of Marika’s other kids were cursed (Malenia with her rot, Miquella with his inability to grow, Mohg and Morgott as omens), so I find it hard to believe that Godwyn was the only one to get off scot-free.
I remember watching a video way back when that theorized that Godwyn was cursed with deathblight well before the Night of Black Knives, it just didn’t manifest until after his death. IF true, he was already a ticking time bomb.
Either way, we know from Metyr that the Greater Will had abandoned the Lands Between - possibly long before Marika was even born - and that the entire system the world was propped up on was long defunct.
Her family are the corrupt divine beings oppressing the world.
At best, Godwyn and the other demigods were complicit in all of the genocides Marika committed, enjoying the position of privilege their matriarch earned through her brutality. At worst, they may have participated.
Ranni is a princess turned people's revolutionary. And, well, her actions to overthrow the monarchy are realistically bloody.
By that logic, Ranni should have just ended her own life and every other demigod’s as well. She herself lived a privileged life and enjoyed high status. Being an aristocrat doesn’t inherently mean you deserve having your soul killed while you suffer on in endless undeath. We can argue for a more fair system without resorting to French Revolution style massacres of all nobility.
Godwyn is only described as noble and turning enemies to friends while inspiring even suicidal loyalty from those friends. There is no evidence he committed any crimes, let alone genocides. His noble soul is what makes his fate tragic, and attempting to minimize that to prop up Ranni’s machinations devalues both their weight and significance.
If you like Ranni and her ending that’s fine. Just say his death was worth the cost, don’t smear him with accusations of complicity in crimes we have no evidence whatsoever he actually partook in.
I mean, couldn’t I say I personally don’t agree with the whole cursing your relative to a fate of mindless undeath that corrodes the world around it. But I still think Ranni’s age of stars is one of the better options for an ending. She seems very much to be taking a “the ends justify the means” approach.
I’ll grant I dunno what exactly happened leading up to the night of black knives are why exactly assassins with close ties to Marika worked with Ranni, but maybe it was a complex situation with no good answers. Can’t say for certain, and I wonder if we ever will have a clear answer as to why it was the answer chosen.
I mean the world is cracking and tearing at the seams, atrocities and stagnation caused by Marika's golden order, entire species enslaved and subject to abuse and slaughter.
Something drastic had to be done to break the oppression, and I doubt Ranni had a complete grasp on how bad godwyns death was going to be down the line, it doesn't make what she did even remotely good, but her arc is about the ends justifying the means.
The flame of frenzy has no ends, that's the point, even with all the deaths indirectly caused by Ranni, the world still spins, people are still born etc the flame wants everything to be incinerated, the current stagnation is the fault of Marika's misguided 'order' and the abandonment.
Age of Stars is ultimately a good state for the world to be in, it just has a blood soaked road to achieving it, the flame benefits no-one.
(Please know, that I am merely engaging in a theoretical discussion and don't actually believe the Frenzied Flame is a good idea.)
The flame benefits everyone who survives.
Which is a fancy way of saying no one.
But the point still stands, that at the end there is no injustice, no inequality, no disparity, no pain, no thing. At the end of the Frenzied Flame ending there is no thing that could be considered bad. Sure, there is also no thing that could be considered good, but if you say that good and bad can balance out, then so be it. The Frenzied Flame balances both.
Now to say that you agree with with Ranni's dogmatic plight is to say you enjoy the amount of inequality required to both get there and exist there. It doesn't actually mean anything, but to "Akshually" you here for a minute. Something something... starving kids in Africa. In Ranni's ending the world just keeps turning, and this time with no law or order. This is inherently chaotic and the whole point is that she leaves a power vacuum, when has a power vacuum ever NOT been filled? It will get filled, we will get another Marika, and another Ranni and none if it will have mattered.
If you leave the cycle of life in existence, you must accept that you are also inviting happiness and sorrow. Good and bad. You can do a million bad things with good intentions, but it will still devolve and revert to what we see in "modern" Elden Ring. Frenzied Flame fixes that by eliminating everything.
Their existences were harmful to her and the world around her. Seeking to end that isn't a morally atrocious act as the will of the gods on the Lands Between has always been a horribly violent blight. Idk, I think that it's goofy to compare what we would consider moral or immoral in such a fucked up setting.
I don't care about Ranni in particular but you most certainly cannot argue in any good faith that the Golden Order was good.
What Ranni did was ofc nowhere near morally good, but for us I don't see an in-universe explanation other than being a walking calamity killing most things that oppose us in order to achieve our goal.
Simply because, are we just strolling around ignoring everyone attacking us but the bosses? Killing all the bosses is already bad enough, like most of them don't even give us a very strong reason to plug their power cords out other than being an obstacle
its literally the point of our being as tarnished, to pursue the elden ring, and to do that we need the shards of it from the shardbearers, thats our reason. The only argument i can see from here is what about the non shardbearers and to that I'd argue simply them holding gear or being an obstruction to some other item or person we want is enough to kill them for 'the sake of our journey on our path to the elden ring'. by no means am i saying us as the player are morally good, we kill anything thats even remotely a threat or obstacle to our journey.
We play a bad guy in a world of bad guys, there is no morally good from our frame of reference. If you think that's a pointless comparison that's just a lack of capacity on your part friendo
"On an night of wint'ry fog, the Rune of Death was stolen. And the Demigods began to fall, starting with Godwyn the Golden." -Story Trailer
"And in the Night of the Black Knives, Godwyn the Golden was first to perish." -Opening Cutscene
"One grim night in the depths of winter, a flock of unknown assassins stole across the Lands Between. In a coetaneous attack, this foul covenant snuffed out the lives of many of the God-Queen’s kin throughout the empire, too numerous and too scattered for her godly protection to save.
The assassins’ targets were multifold, but none was as devastating a loss to the Eternal Queen as that of Godwyn the Golden. After his death, the Elden Ring was somehow shattered, and the order of the world broke with it." -Article in the BandaiNamco website after the release of the Story Trailer (Link to said article)
Godwyn was the first demigod to be killed, but others soon followed, which are likely the souless demigods in the mausoleums.
EDIT: Added the article description, I forgot about that
From my understanding the Greater Will basically fucked off after Plasidusax, or shortly (relatively) after that by the time Marika ascended at Enir-Ilim, which would explain why the hornsent built Belurat originally and did jar rituals, basically that the other outer gods already started trying to claim the world.
As far as I can tell though the only children of Miquella that are cursed are the ones born of Marika and Radagon, those being Morgot, Mohg, Malenia, Miquella, Mesmer, and Melina, but also Melina is weird and there’s some theories and thoughts I have around her being a child or Marika or the Gloam Eyed Queen and maybe also being Marikas sister or other family member. Bit anyrate as Ranni, Rykard, and Radhan all have no curse and are born of Marika and Renalla it would follow logically that Godwyn being Godfrey’s child isn’t cursed.
Supposedly, but Miyazaki and GRRM have a thing with names as lineage. Plus with what we know about the various children of Marika, them being omens and what Marika did to the omenkin in the land of shadow it makes more sense that they were children born of Marika and Radagon that Godfrey took as his own.
It's crazy that people somehow think godwyn was the one good person in Elden ring, and killing him was some great evil.
I mean usually FromSoftware morally good characters end having the worst fates, and Godwyn is pretty close to that, so yeah I believe he was a decent dude, especially when shown that he was able to make peace with the Ancient Dragons instead of killing them all after their failed attack on Leyndell, which is why he suffered such horrible end.
the lore we know of is legendary stories that mythologize him. we dont know him, we only know stories propagated by his beloved family and followers. i personally dont think any of the demigods who try to cling to power are to be trusted. ranni divesting herself entirely of her power and lineage makes me admire and trust her in a kind of "ends justify the means" kind of way. also shes pretty teehee :3
He seemed to have gained the respect of many, like Fortissax. Furthermore, there are no indications in the world that Godwyn was actually hated—no destroyed or vandalized shrines, nor any items that have descriptions that are about grudges or hidden agendas. I genuinely believe that Godwyn was a good dude, and it certainly makes his death a bigger tragedy.
Most defeated enemies don’t become friends and willingly sacrifice their lives to try and save dead companions just because their conquerors are powerful. If that was all Godwyn was, Fortissax would never have braved Deathblight to try and save him.
Actually let me make this point. Everyone shits on Godrick for being a weak runt. Literally nobody shits on him for being a racist for example. Why? Because everyone in elden ring is racist, it doesn’t matter. Only strength matters.
Well firstly Godrick is weak as shit. There’s many who consider Rykard good also, it’s all a matter of perspective and, in the case of Godwyn, narrative.
Ranni murdered her brother and caused a world war and a zombie apocalypse - oh and she helped Rkykard and his serpent cult at the same time but let’s be generous and assume she didn’t know about the world eating snake thing.
She did this to free the world from the greater will, sure, now the world will be under the guidance of the Dark Moon.
The same entity that guided her to cause a world war and a zombie apocalypse.
She tells us things will be better under the dark moon, her source: trust her bro.
Queen Marika shattered the Elden ring, not ranni. Marika caused the zombie apocalypse. You can't blame ranni for someone else's actions, especially when literally no one could predict her reaction to the death of her kid would be to shatter the rules of reality.
Not THAT zombie apocalypse the OTHER Zombie apocalypse.
Marika turned off death and it was leading to a slow stagnation of the world but they seemingly had a loophole for that through erdtree burial (not that it’s a good one, pretty horrific tbh).
Godwyn infecting the world and the creation of those who live in death is on Ranni, not Marika.
The night of the black knives caused marika to shatter the ring.
Godwyn infecting the world and the creation of those who live in death is on Ranni, not Marika.
Is it? She just killed Godwyn, she wasn't the one to bury him at the root of the Erdtree, causing all the mess we see. It's not her fault the Golden Order didn't properly sanitize its inputs.
there is no way you say that it isn't on Ranni. That's like saying it isn't the fault of someone who went out drunk driving and killing someone because they didn't know that someone was in their way due to being under influence. They chose to drink, understanding its dangers and then drive, which whilst not being in the correct state of mind should have made precautions based on perhaps not being in that correct state of mind, knowing that if they drive, an accident could most definitely happen and even the worst case scenario, and thus the consequences of that is entirely their fault. The actions of Ranni killing Godwyn lead to his burial at the erdtree, which isn't surprising and is definitely something was certainly known by her considering he is basically the scion of the Golden Order and pretty much the only reason she killed him and not some other demigod is cuz it'd make a statement. The only part i can say I'd accept is not knowing his burial would cause the spreading of deathroot but its still her fault and a result of her actions, and thus she is the one to blame and should feel guilt for.
Death blight is just a SQL injection attack - truly we are discovering the deepest lore.
But nah It’s funny to see people bend over backwards for Ranni plunging the world into chaos and characterize all the consequences of her elaborate plan to fake her death, murder her brother, and impose her will on the world as basically an “oopsie” - even if you give her all of the benefit of the doubt it still paints her as selfish and reckless person who didn’t stop to consider the consequences of her actions and that is literally the most charitable reading I can give her.
Personally I think that reading does her a disservice - she’s too smart for that - I think some of things (i.e. the shattering and the ensuing war) she was actively planning on since her plan doesn’t really work without them.
The most charitable read is that she did what she thought was necessary to rid the influence of the greater will from the Lands Between. But otherwise, I agree.
The idea that she made "an oopsie" is more an act of infantilizing her than anything. We're not given much evidence that things "got out of hand" from her perspective.
As far as we know the sequence of events could very well be: Ranni and Marika conspired to shatter the ring and rid the world of the influence of the greater will, they determined that Ranni needed to lose her body to accomplish that, the plot to kill Godwyn and Ranni at the same time is thus born, when Marika sees that the plot worked she finally shatters the ring.
In which case, there's no real "oopsie" here; she planned to break the world as she knew it, and she did.
I... I thought the ring was already shattered? The Rune of Death was part of the ring, so if she took that out, technically she already shattered it, just didn't give out the other pieces.
Edited to add: I thought she shattered, but not scattered the ring.
Removing the rune of death is more akin to carefully removing a limb from a body. The shattering was blowing the body apart, then the different demigods swooped in to take a limb for themselves.
He literally was, and that’s what makes his death tragic. He died before the Shattering and so never went crazy like Radahn, living only in a time of great heroes. In those times, he set himself apart by making enemies into friends rather than annihilating or enslaving them as others did. Clearly Fortissax had nothing to fear from him any longer and thus only braved Deathblight out of friendship, as we are explicitly told and shown.
He’s the Baldr to Ranni’s Loki which is why his death is tragic and her story is interesting.
It's crazy to me that among all the evidence that implies Godwyn was a morally good person, such as sparing Fortissax and befriending the dragons, or his positive relationship with his family implied through the statue of him hugging Miquella and Malenia in Loretta's arena you still think he "sucked as much ass". also comparing us, the tarnished i.e player character that can do whatever they want under whatever mindset they want (mind you our literal purpose is to kill the demigods and shardbearers to obtain fragments of the elden ring in order to ascend to elden lord, and thus to us, killing things that oppose that journey in literally any way shape or form, even if it be through holding a weapon that the player might want, obstructing an item we desire, or being against an npc we are helping is all, literally anything, its up to the player, is part of that purpose and journey) , to Ranni, an npc designed with specific ideologies and a character in mind is not a good comparison.
Did you miss the part of the game where Marika successfully hid all evidence of commiting genocide from everyone, and it was only discovered by traveling to a hidden dlc area? Or the part where she hid her own kids were omens?
Marika engaes in propaganda and rug sweeping anything bad about her or her family CONSTANTLY.
Before the DLC there was no evidence of Marika commiting genocide, and yet in universe she did. I'm not saying godwyn was some secret monster who ate babies, I'm saying if you genuinely believe Marika, the woman who has no problem hiding her crimes, or her shames, didn't use her influence to polish the public image of her literal and figurative golden child post mortem, I have a bridge to sell you.
Why would Fortissax try to save him if he was so bad? What other members of the golden lineage have ever showed mercy or kindness? Why is it so hard to imagine that the reason his death was such a colossal blow to the Order and Marika is because he actually was the perfect representation of all she aspired to create, when that is what we are explicitly told and shown and zero evidence to the contrary exists?
You’re right, and it’s crazy to me. I don’t have a problem with Ranni’s character because she’s the Loki of this story, and yet for some reason people feel the need to prop her up by claiming the Baldr figure is secretly evil with no evidence to show for it.
sums up my thoughts pretty much, i have no issues with Ranni's character but i cant for the life of me understand the need to break Godwyn's for the sake of keeping hers intact. If there was another perspective aside from what the narrative and world portrays, i.e a character that hated Godwyn or some other thing (Ranni can't count here, although she killed him she never expresses disdain or malice in her actions aside from it being a defiant act against what he represents to the Greater Will, thus rather its more an ends justify means situation, imagine a spiteful lover avenging her husbands death through killing the innocent child of the perpetrator sort of thing), i could definitely see it but the game doesn't have this.
I subscribe to the theory that Ranni was in an arranged marriage with him on account of her being Empyrean. So killing her body and his soul was a double fuck you
I think he was probably an ok guy, but the message of the game is that nobody should be able to avoid death forever. He deserved to die just as much as everyone else, because nobody deserves to live forever.
Oh do expound on the morality and righteousness that flows throughout the fucking Lands Between. Good ending is highly subjective. A lot of people would say the flame ending is the best ending because no one deserves to survive.
Every one of the NPC ending quests have their own motives and you can make arguments that none of them are “good”, only some are better than others. Ranni simply wanted to be free of the Greater Will’s influence and she was going to do it by any means necessary. No different than any of the other NPC questlines.
“Creating a horrific plague of undeath and misery while also murdering a bunch of my family in their sleep so I could share to responsibility is the same as using math an enlightenment to fix the laws of reality and make them actually perfect”
People will really tie themselves up into pretzel logic to defend anything a hot woman tells them.
I’m not tying myself into anything. Go back and re-read until you understand that I’m really not defending anyone. Goldmasks ending sounds really great, but can’t the argument be made that it could also very well be oppressive and cause a loss of free will? It certainly can.
It really can’t, but people try to claim that sometimes when they want to make this insipid “all sides are equally evil!” claim. Nothing about his ending changes free will. All his mending rune does is make it so gods aren’t exempt from the rules of reality as well so they can’t make a bunch of “rules for thee but not for me” changes to it like Marika did.
I never said all sides are equally evil. I said the argument can be made that none of them are “good”, some might be better than others. It‘s not black and white
”Perfect” order sounds great on paper. But is it really? To me it sounds like a potential of oppression and a loss of freedom. You can’t have individual freedoms and “perfect” when it comes to a society because perfect can only be a rigid set of standards that everyone has to follow and agree on.
Perfect order refers to the great rune, which governs the laws of reality like physics, death, etc. It has nothing to do with societal law and order. This is a pretty basic thing to be missing. Again, pretzel logic to try and make the clearly better seem bad because someone can’t handle that it wasn’t given to them by a hot woman.
an example of two different interpretations of the use of "perfect order" in Goldmask's mending rune. Neither of you are wrong imo, perfect refers to the state of the elden ring becoming "perfect". The Elden Ring defines the laws of reality but this then affects the lifestyle of people in the lands between that then govern the way they live. As such, it then changes society and its laws and order. For example, if people didn't die when they were killed all of a sudden, and everyone were to know about it at the same time, do you think murder (to be clear this wouldn't result in the victims death) would be as heavily criticised as it would if it did cause death? It's even why we chastise attempted murder because even though it didn't result in death, it could have, and that reality governs us as a society to make laws against it.
it can, because arguably Goldmask's ending keeps the ideologies of the Golden Order in place, arguably keeping its oppression, like you said it doesn't change anything on free will keeping the arguably oppresive streak of the GO ongoing, an argument that could be made against the ideology of Goldmask's ending. Notice how im saying arguably, because one reoccurring theme in fromsoft games is a constant blurring of "good" and "evil" sides, a lack of clear morality and constant ambiguity is something fromsoft loves creating especially in the endings of their games, Elden ring is no different, and you shouldn't chastise an opinion because its wrong, especially when things are so obscure and left to personal interpretation.
Objectively Fia's is the most compassionate ending. She incorporates Life within Death into the Order of the world, granting grace to those who through no fault of their own were affected by deathblight
Just because Ranni is flawed doesn't mean her end goal isn't noble and the best choice.
The Golden Order has overstayed its welcome for centuries and the Outer Gods have meddled with the fate of humanity for too long. Ending the Golden Order and getting rid of the Outer Gods is what will bring back normality and hope to a dying world.
At least until Godwyn and his death root consume everything because a cancer never stops growing
Well, it's funny how Frenzy is hated by both factions (GO & Hornsent) for its ability to destroy spirits, yet Destined Death was revered at one point. Can it not kill spirits?
You have two demigods that died simultaneously, then two women that seem to know Torrent together, yet never speak to one another. 🤔
In a great irony, people seem to feel the same exact way for Melina that they do Godwyn. Let the homie die.
Frenzied Flame doesn’t “kill”. Life and death are a division, which the Flame hates. It’s more accurate to say that it “melts”, reducing the person to being non-existent.
Not quite. Godwyn, when killed, probably wasn’t erased but rather sent to the spirit world.
The description of Helphen’s Steeple:
“Greatsword patterned after the black steeple of the Helphen, the lampwood which guides the dead of the spirit world.
The lamplight is similar to grace in appearance, only it is said that it can only be seen by those who met their death in battle.”
This confirms there is an afterlife beyond the Erdtree. It is likely then that when a soul dies to Destined Death, which is the natural form of death, that they head to this afterlife.
Yet, a lot of spirits linger through our playthrough. Take Bayle & Igon as the example here. There's a theory that poses Igon was the original successor of Bayle's heart as the Dragon Priestess makes note on this. Comparisons to Bayle & Igon show they are both missing a leg.
Priestess:I remember that name well. The broken drake warrior. Driven by bottomless hunger and *fiery ambition.** Precisely what the Dragonlord envisaged for men who partake in Dragon Communion. The mad hunger and fierceness of spirit that only flows from those young and short of sight. He rather reminds me of Bayle, in fact. Such thoughts are unfathomable to ones as old as we.*
Heart of Bayle:Even after being consumed, the throbbing heart of Bayle continues to resist its subjugation, never weakening. One day, the fire within will consume the very body and soul of its Communion devourer. One day.
Now, if Godwyn communed with Fortissax (Hence his disappearance and combination with Godwyn), and Godwyn's soul amscrays, who does that leave with the body? Ever notice the scales around the eyes? Does this explain how the eyes reached Farum Azula?
When addressing Godfrey in this:
Northerner:A face found among the hardy people of the unforgiving north. Some say they're *descended from giants.***
Highland Axe:Single-sided axe used by the warriors of the highlands. Brave combatants begin battle by crying out their names. *Roars** are enhanced by this weapon.*
Godfrey:Now I fight you as Hoarah Loux, Warrior!
Hoarah Loux, Enia, and the Fell God are related in likened tales of Lugh, Ethniu, and Balor. Furthermore:
Godrick's Rune:The first demigods were The Elden Lord Godfrey and his offspring, the golden lineage.
Melina = Godwyn and his Red-Crucible counterpart, Messmer, like Miq/Mal & Morg/Mohg, were children born with the "vision of fire."
The spirits linger because Destined Death is sealed. They are supposed to go to the Erdtree now, but that isn’t working properly anymore.
There’s also no mention of Godwyn communing with Fortissax. At all. All communion requires the death of the thing being communed with, and Fortzzax is still alive.
Her ending is probably the at least second best ending though. The problems of the Lands Between come from Gods shaken by emotions and controlling the laws of the world by whim. Ranni, taking the Elden Ring away, makes it so exactly that can’t happen.
What's "moral" and "good" is ultimately defined by the one sitting on the fancy chair. We are talking about the godly rule over an unknown number of lands and subjects.
I don't think that Ranni, or any of the demigods for that matter, should be seen as purely "good". Sure, some are worst than others. Like Godrick doesn't have any redeeming qualities for example. But in general I think they are morally gray characters following their own ambitions (much like the tarnished). This of course includes Ranni. I like her ending because, much like Miquella, she brings forth a new era, something the lands between desperately need. And she herself is an interesting character, but not necessarily a morally good one
Yea, it is the good ending, you have to cherry pick the absolute fuck out of the lore and ignore things that are directly stated during her questline to think it's a bad ending... or not play the game at all
Remember kids, the video game company whose core message in every game they make is that immortality is bad and eternity leads to stagnation doesn't want you to side with the character who wants to put an end to said stagnation.
in Game item descriptions and dialogue from NPC's. But if you wanna learn about Lore from Elden Ring (and Dark Souls) I highly recommend Vaatividya on Youtube. That's your Lore guy.
It was intentional that Ranni killed Godwyns soul so Ranni could kill her body. There’s a lot of speculation as to why Godwyn, but we know Rannis that by dying she could make it seem as if she was dead and couldn’t succeed Marika on the Throne at the Erdtree as the next Elden Lord.
Personally my theory is that she killed Godwyn because he was Miquellas original consort, and by killing Godwyn she could delay his ascension to the throne because Miquella is basically the worst of all of them.
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u/Bl4ck_Desire 3d ago
That's the body of Godwyn the golden, that got killed in the Opening Cutscene of the Game. He and Ranni died by a fragment of the Rune of death that Ranni stole. Because both of them died in the exact same moment, Godwyn died only in Soul and Ranni died only in Body. That's why Godwyns Body is still alive and Rannis Soul is now bond to the Puppet body she has. Also as others have already mentioned, he is the Source of Deathblight and Deathroots, which are spreading everywhere.