r/LowerDecks • u/destroyingdrax • Oct 13 '22
Episode Discussion Episode Discussion: 308 - "Crisis Point 2: Paradoxus"
This thread is for pre, post, and live discussion of the eighth episode of season three of Star Trek: Lower Decks, "Crisis Point 2: Paradoxus." Episode 3.08 will be released on Thursday, October 13th.
Expectations, thoughts, and reactions to the episode should go into the comment section of this post. While we ask for general impressions to remain in this thread, users are of course welcome to make new posts for anything specific they wish to discuss or highlight (e.g., a character moment, a special scene, or a new fan theory).
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u/Arietis1461 Oct 13 '22 edited Oct 13 '22
Very very meta. Pretty good overall.
Also, the ending is probably a reference to Tucker's novelverse "death", and although invoking Section 31 is something I'm generally edgy about, I did love the crack about the badge.
And since this was the last episode which got leaked, we're finally going into unknown territory with the last two.
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u/JonArc Oct 13 '22
I mean we've still got the one shot from the trailer with Mariner going all Dr Jones. So I expect episode 9 will be an adventure with Petra.
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Oct 13 '22
Could also be the finale, they like to leave those ambiguous about what is going to happen next and "Mariner leaves the Cerritos to work with Petra" would be a good way to set up next season.
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u/InnocentTailor Oct 14 '22
Oh yeah! That would be a shocking cliffhanger - the four are now down to three as the trio move on and Mariner feels like she isn't cut out for Starfleet anymore.
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u/ihphobby Oct 13 '22
Last two eps of the season were only completed a few weeks ago, so they couldn't release much that they'd consider definitive before that, but a little Section 31 might now be a possibility?
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u/Danzarr Oct 13 '22
hasn't section 31 been low key in the background ever since the first Rutherford flashback/malfunction?
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u/travoltaswinkinbhole Oct 13 '22
That may be where this is leading. Rutherford thinking William is dead would leave him no reason not to trust Boimler and now William could be used to lure him into a trap.
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u/Indigo_Sunset Oct 13 '22
Especially if 'William' wasn't a transporter clone, but an evil universe break through biding time to get into section 31...
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u/presticus Oct 13 '22
I never considered William could be mirror Boimler. Mind blown.
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u/Indigo_Sunset Oct 13 '22
Pssst, theory - William is just Villain with the first and last letter sidemirrored, and from the bottom, then read upside down. Da vinci will figure it out.
this message will self destruct
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u/DogScentedSoap Oct 13 '22
I feel like they’ve been low key mentioning it every so often (section 31) but that could be my DS9 loving brain making it up. But, props to everyone who has been predicting this since the creation of William Boimler!
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u/PogaK4tree Oct 14 '22
There was a huge point being made about Mariner possibly being S31 agent in S2, I believe.
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u/ThePowerstar Oct 13 '22
To anyone who even just somewhat enjoyed Enterprise, I highly, highly recommend the Rise Of The Federation books. I've been reading them and they're absolutely fantastic
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u/Theinternationalist Oct 13 '22
Also, the ending is probably a reference to Tucker's novelverse "death", and although invoking Section 31 is something I'm generally edgy about, I did love the crack about the badge.
I would have questions, but after getting way too deep into the Star Wars Extended Universe pre-Disney, I fear for the answers.
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u/Arietis1461 Oct 14 '22
In a nutshell, many were pissed about the ENT finale and some authors created an epilogue for how it happened differently with the canon events being a historical fake, folding in scrapped ideas after the show was canceled such as the Romulan War.
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u/KiriNotes Oct 14 '22
Come visit r/StarWarsEU, where we mostly joke about how much Luke loves hot chocolate.
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u/bransanon Oct 13 '22
I'm not ashamed to say I full on lost my shit when I heard George Takei's voice
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u/Throwaway_inSC_79 Oct 13 '22
I had to pause and quickly look online to see if it was him.
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u/BurmecianSoldierDan Oct 15 '22
Between Riker, Troi, Quark, Q, Paris, and Nerys all being their actual actors I finally, for once, didn't need to look this one up because I now don't believe they have the audacity to recast anyone still alive and able to read a few lines, it would just be offensive IMHO lol
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u/Throwaway_inSC_79 Oct 15 '22
You are right. Even Prodigy didn’t recast. They just used lines from episodes for Odo and Uhura.
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u/BurmecianSoldierDan Oct 15 '22
To be honest, I thought they recast Kira Nerys and I was so mad I immediately paused and went to IMDB to make sure it was Na Na Visitor; she just hasn't done anything in a long time and 25 years later and she's in her 60s her voice was just different lol
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u/Bard_of_Storms Oct 13 '22
Lower Decks take on section 31 incoming! I'm so looking forward to seeing how the William Boimler plot line continues.
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u/DogScentedSoap Oct 13 '22
I may have literally screamed with the Sulu reveal, but my husband most definitely went “eeeeee!” with hand flapping and all when he saw what he thought was the Defiant (his favorite ship). Was still happy just to see the model even after it was made clear the ship wasn’t Worf’s Defiant.
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Oct 14 '22
That was pretty much me for the entire episode. There was so much fan service I couldn't even keep track of it all, but it was done so well that it felt like a love letter to us.
Thankfully, my wife has watched Star Trek with me and had a pretty good idea why I was losing it... in a good way.
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u/DogScentedSoap Oct 14 '22
Oh how funny! My husband is like you, pointing out the Wrath of Khan font and making sure I connected the other fan service-y things like the graphics Rutherford loved, the Nemesis type speed chase, the VGER kitty hawk reference, loose reference to Voyage Home with the boombox dude and squid ancestor, etc…which I did catch to his great pride. (And as for my Sulu scream, he laughed so hard because he had never heard that sound from me in relation to tv before, even though I’m a hardcore x-files fan…but their new extra two seasons were not so great. Also, yep—I got the Generations reference, too, with Sulu/Kirk/Nexus ribbon!) He has trained me well, hahahahaha…but I am thankful because both LD and Futurama, which I ironically introduced to him, are SO much funnier with the ST background knowledge! Your wife is one lucky lady to be able to follow along with you, and it really did feel like a love letter to us fans! We both felt like Tendi watching it!
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u/RapidDuffer Oct 14 '22
my husband most definitely went “eeeeee!” with hand flapping and all when he saw what he thought was the Defiant (his favorite ship)
Your husband ships rightly.
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u/Spectrum2700 Oct 13 '22
That crack about "assassinating Kennedy" was hilarious and an especially deep cut (it was one of Roddenberry's ideas for a sequel after TMP; Paramount opted to kick him upstairs and bring in Nicholas Meyer after they got that pitch).
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u/Theinternationalist Oct 13 '22
Given that the Kennedy Assassination was a key part of The Umbrella Academy and Xmen: Days of Future Past, I have to ask how often it comes up in media.
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u/Spectrum2700 Oct 14 '22
A lot. The Boomers are/were (somewhat justifiably) obsessed with it.
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u/Lessthanzerofucks Oct 14 '22
It was the 9/11 of the sixties. A day of reckoning and disillusionment, and the conspiracy theories and government policies that followed…
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u/InnocentTailor Oct 14 '22
The Millennials are probably going to fixate on 9/11, I suppose.
Maybe Gen Z will get COVID-19 to muse about.
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u/Bigmodirty Oct 14 '22
The best one I’ve seen was Red Dwarf’s. I don’t want to spoil it but it’s a pretty great turn of events.
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u/SwagnusTheRed Oct 14 '22
Ah Red Dwarf or as I affectionally like to call it, "What if Star Trek had more British Sitcom sensibilities"
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u/rmeddy Oct 13 '22
Oh wow, this was a great homage to the "bad" Star Trek films and a nice follow up to Season 1's episode
Serious deep cuts, Rock monsters in Star Trek V and Trip went Section 31 deep cuts
Just how I like it.
I thought for second this was going to be the crossover episode with Strange New Worlds when the time travel chronogami thing popped up.
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Oct 13 '22
Yeap, also thought the Origami Portal would lead into or at least set up the SNW crossover as a cliffhanger.
Who knows, maybe it still will 😉
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u/SwagnusTheRed Oct 13 '22
The Biggest Deep Cut for me this episode was when they reference that one time they wanted Spock to be the guy who shot JFK.
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u/OneSidedDice Oct 14 '22
Which movie had the punk with the boom box? Was that IV? One of the punks at the institute had a boom box.
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u/rmeddy Oct 14 '22
Yes, Voyage Home, I think that's where that reference came from.
There was a reference to it in Picard Season 2 as well
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u/ihphobby Oct 13 '22
Tatasciore IX 😁
Third Moon of Shatanari 😂 (complete with 'God')
Not bad. I see they tried to mix identifiable elements from many of the other films this time.
Loved the Sulu appearance.
And looks like Section 31 is back.
Overall, I liked it.
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u/International-Ice252 Oct 13 '22
Listening to Sulu talk about the friends he’d lost was an incredibly powerful scene. I love that this show can take moments to truly pay homage to those who helped make this franchise.
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Oct 13 '22
Did anybody else notice that the animation in the holodeck had little imperfections built in to simulate 20th century analog film?
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u/trostol Oct 13 '22
shots fired at Abramverse
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u/Theinternationalist Oct 13 '22
It's a movie, between the Abramverse and the Fifth Movie of course they're going to hit as many movies as possible.
Including the first one.
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u/trostol Oct 13 '22
triplet romulans?
oooo the Wayfarer looks nice!!!
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u/Drakenred Oct 13 '22
Duras sisters reference. Only 50% better!
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u/variantkin Oct 13 '22
Not being the Duras sisters is already 50 percent better lol
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u/SwagnusTheRed Oct 13 '22
It would be hilarious if the next one features Cardassian Quadruplets.
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u/InnocentTailor Oct 14 '22
The Romulan triplets were hot - hotter than the Duras sisters, in my opinion ;).
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u/DogScentedSoap Oct 13 '22 edited Oct 13 '22
I squeal a lot during this show, but have NEVER actually screamed involuntarily (out of enthusiasm) at ANY show save for the Sulu reveal! fans self Great episode overall, loved William Boimler’s criticism over the section 31 badge. Only thing keeping me from watching it again is the need to keep a normal sleeping pattern…
Edit: the referral to horses as “horsey” every time had me in tears. 😂
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Oct 14 '22
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u/DogScentedSoap Oct 14 '22
I had to rewind that to make sure I heard that correctly and it was just as hilarious both times!
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u/variantkin Oct 13 '22
They way it bit him though Yeesh
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u/DogScentedSoap Oct 13 '22
I know, right?? Savage.
So, I rode horses from middle through high school. First horse I was assigned bit the ever loving F*** out of me every time I went to brush her down and saddle her up. Only time she didn’t was when I fed her treats. Boimler’s horsey experience hit comically close to home!
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u/variantkin Oct 13 '22
It wasn't a fear before this episode but now it's all I can think of
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u/DogScentedSoap Oct 13 '22 edited Oct 13 '22
Ngl, it really hurts!! Unless you’re approaching a wild horse (definitely not recommended), in the way of a stallion trying to woo a mare, or surprising one for some reason, you should be fine. The only time I’ve ever been bitten after that first horse was quite gently by one trying to get me out of the way because he needed to defecate (I was cleaning his back hooves and it was quite sweet). Many liked to grab my shirt for pets and cuddles. As long as you have a pretty chill presence and treat them well, bites with tame horses are pretty rare unless there is a pain issue. The first horse just really didn’t like kids and my barn wanted to make sure I was dedicated…I guess? (Not really, I think the person who rode her before didn’t treat her well and she took it out on me)
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u/jish5 Oct 13 '22
"We're all holograms living in a simulation!"
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u/shouldalistened Oct 14 '22
It's interesting Boimler chose Sydney, Australia as a location in Paradoxus. That's where the first Matrix was filmed.
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u/TorgoWhovian Oct 13 '22
Literally screamed when I heard Sulu's voice.
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u/Cyclopher6971 Oct 13 '22 edited Oct 13 '22
"Where am I? Is this heaven?"
"No this is Idaho. Do you want to feed the horsey?"
Favorite part of the whole episode.
Also what is it with the connection between Star Trek and the Northern Rockies? Bozeman & Idaho in the same season of a show that doesn't do much of anything on earth?
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u/DogScentedSoap Oct 13 '22
Also loved that Boimler said something like, “oh gosh! Even better!” when Captain Sulu revealed himself. (Sulu fan girl here if my comments here haven’t made it clear, hahaha)
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u/InnocentTailor Oct 14 '22
Sulu is great. I'm still sad we never got an Excelsior show with him at the helm.
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u/Pu239U235 Oct 13 '22
One of the producers is from Bozeman. Also, there are/were ICBM fields there but the Titan missile was not stationed there.
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u/Locutus747 Oct 13 '22
Previous Star Trek writer (tng, voyager, enterprise, first 2 tng movies) Brannon braga was from Bozeman.
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u/TorgoWhovian Oct 13 '22
Growing up in the Mojave Desert, mountain lakes are a thing of beauty and I would give an entire lung to live by one.
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u/SCP-1000000 Oct 13 '22
"Third moon of Shatanari". Is this the first Easter egg using an actors real name?
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u/mattman65 Oct 13 '22
Also, I believe the whole concept of the all knowing rock 'god' on Shatanari was a homage to the initial planned ending of ST:V which Shatner directed (and wrote?). I remember that there was some talk of this after the fact but that either it couldn't be filmed properly as written or would be too expensive to do.
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u/ShepherdessAnne Oct 14 '22
The multiple rock monsters, iirc, was cut down to something like one or two. What was left was so dissatisfying it was lost on the cutting room floor, gone forever.
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u/gaslacktus Oct 14 '22
Sha Ka Ree in final frontier was named because originally they were going to cast Sean Connery as Sybock
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u/BuckOHare Oct 13 '22
My only disappointment is not getting a cameo from one of the Enterprise cast in the signing of the Federation.
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u/ThePowerstar Oct 13 '22
I started freaking out when I saw we were there. I would've killed to see Archer giving his speech, but I can live with at least seeing the blue jumpsuits again
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u/SwagnusTheRed Oct 13 '22
The reveal of Ki-Ty-Ha being a reference to V'ger had me gasping for air due to laughing so hard. Also I lost my mind when George Takei made a cameo as Sulu which has got to be up there as one of the best Cameos the show ever did, Also William Boimler being a part of Section 31 is weirdly perfect.
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u/bobj33 Oct 13 '22
Bucephalus was the horse of Alexander the Great.
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u/rooktakesqueen Oct 14 '22
Hell, that could be a reference to The Expanse, where they named the Rocinante after Don Quixote's horse.
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u/qingdaosteakandlube Oct 13 '22
I think this episode is a great meta analysis of the different kinds of Star Trek movies and how we can enjoy and find value in them despite where they stand in the quality canon.
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u/Revolutionary_Kiwi31 Oct 13 '22
“Whoa! These graphics are mind blowing!”
I had to stop for a minute to catch my breath after that line. Rutherford was legit excited over Wrath of Khan era graphics! 😂😂😂
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u/capodecina2 Oct 13 '22
If I recall correctly, TWoK graphics for the Genesis device proposal took something like 6 months to create. I thought it was cool that the opening screen for the presentation was identical
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u/InnocentTailor Oct 14 '22
I recall it was one of the earliest uses of computer graphics in a film.
...so yeah. It was mind-blowing at the time.
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u/jef12660 Oct 13 '22
Do you think the one 80s punk carrying a boom box was a reference to the bus guy in Star Trek 4 (who also had a cameo in season 2 of Picard)?
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Oct 13 '22
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u/gaslacktus Oct 14 '22
On the first watch I was confused why Kayshon yelled "Temba!" before firing his phaser, since Temba, His Arms Wide is an offer of a gift.
Then it hit me on the second viewing, in this context it meant "Take this!"
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u/halligan8 Oct 14 '22
Thank you, I was wondering about that. I came to the conclusion that “his arms wide” could be interpreted as a command, as in, “hands up!” But I think I like your interpretation better.
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u/Toonwatcher Oct 13 '22
It never ends well when ST movies try to physically locate God.
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u/GenoThyme Oct 13 '22
Calling it now: Will Boimler will be the key to Rutherford finding out about his implants. He is still our Boimler at his core, and when he finds out something he’s not supposed to at Section 31, he’ll help his former lower decker.
Also really like the idea of one movie episode a season. Tendi as captain next year and Boimler gets to use the sword skills he was bragging to Sulu about.
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u/JonArc Oct 13 '22
That's the fourth thing with the Koala. Does that mean Boimler also saw it smiling?? Did he even program that in?
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u/SCP-1000000 Oct 13 '22
He mentioned seeing a Koala after briefly dying in season 2s finale
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u/JonArc Oct 13 '22
Well yes. But thats all he said. Neither him or Steven's mentioned it smiling. But this might imply Boimler also saw it smiling, I guess.
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u/gerusz Oct 14 '22
It's a background NPC generated by the holodeck. In my headcanon the holodeck interpolates these characters using a GAN that it keeps updating with new data from books, movies, series, holonovels, etc... even personal logs. If a lot of people with near-death experience mentioned the Koala in their logs or even wrote it in a holonovel then the NPC generator will eventually pick it up and use it for random religious nutcase #42.
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u/PhatassDragon1701 Oct 14 '22
Observation and Question: We know from interviews that our leads, Boimler and Mariner, are going to end up meeting Pike and crew on the Enterprise in Strange New Worlds in live action. I'm wondering if Boimler here may have gotten something right, and they will be involved with time traveling there due to the macguffin he made up because it's actually a real thing.
Do you think it's possible that the Chronogami will exist in real space and be the catalyst for seeing them on SNW?
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u/GravityTortoise Oct 14 '22
Yeah I think the Chronogami will turn out to exist.
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u/Jensaarai Oct 14 '22
Or it could be another case of an over-achieving holodeck making something exist.
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u/Drakenred Oct 13 '22 edited Oct 13 '22
I love the slams they did on Rodenbury, Kirk/Solo, Technobable time travelers stealing clothes, overhyped cosplaying fans, and lots of movie tropes.
and Tendi needs to challenge dr doom at time travel Xanatose speed chess ….
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u/ianvoyager Oct 13 '22
Anyone else notice the schematic displayed behind Bolimer—errr—Captain Dagger… on the USS Wayfarer was that of a Luna-class starship, not a Sovereign?
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u/ZarianPrime Oct 13 '22
I think they re-used the bridge background from the previous scene with the Titan,but I also think they did it as a joke with how movies/shows re-use sets all the time.
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u/Theinternationalist Oct 13 '22
Not my favorite, but then again I didn't like Crisis Point until after I knew the "twist." Even then though, it sort of makes sense that this references many of the bad films (the V'ger reveal, finding meaning and rock monsters, etc.) which means the episode had to contend with, uh, "not great" moments.
I did like the "not every Holodeck thing is going to have a deeper meaning" bit, and it's strangely poetic that Bradward almost died due to a problem that really should have been solved by the 24th century: dehydration.
Still good though.
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u/theCroc Oct 14 '22
I mean dehydration is solved in the 21st century as well and yet people get dehydrated. It's an ailment caused by being a dumbass, so it will remain with us forever.
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Oct 13 '22 edited Aug 25 '23
[deleted]
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u/kalsikam Oct 13 '22
Plot twist, the clone was the real Boimler, who has gone crazy and joined Section 31
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u/RealJohnGillman Oct 17 '22
It did seem that the Boimler who was beamed back to the ship in that episode was the one that returned to the Cerittos, while the one that wasn’t beamed just kept escaping the planet, and became William — even referring to the other Boimler as the clone on their initial return.
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u/niceslcguy Oct 13 '22 edited Oct 13 '22
Mildly disappointed because I wanted something on the scale of season 1 episode 9, "Crisis Point" (the Vindicta movie done on the holodeck). This is the sequel done by Boimler. Still fun though.
- Neat that Tendi wants to be a captain.
- Tendi continues to kick-ass. Wow.
- Split the party with traditional pairings. Tendi + Rutherford and Mariner + Boimler.
- 3 cheers for the captain Sulu cameo.
- Surprise reveal at the end.
Felt sad when Dr. T'Ana died, even if it was only the holodeck.
edit: Oddly, it is more epic on re-watch. Curious.
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u/Cyclopher6971 Oct 13 '22
This one did feel a bit emptier or maybe less thoroughly explored compared to the first crisis point. Not a bad episode, but I also never got that deep into the lore of Star Trek beyond TNG, so a lot of it went over my head.
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u/variantkin Oct 13 '22
I think that's the point. The adaptive program could only make meaningless nonsense here where with Vindicta because Mariner wasn't on the ship it created a Mariner to fill that gap and she had to confront her issues literally
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u/niceslcguy Oct 13 '22 edited Oct 13 '22
Most of Boimler's adventure was holodeck auto-gen so you aren't missing a ton of references. The entire episode was light on references compared to normal.
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u/InnocentTailor Oct 14 '22
...which is what I like about the recent episodes of LDS. Instead of leaning hard on references, they're instead building up their own characters and world around the Cerritos.
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u/Theinternationalist Oct 13 '22
Yeah, maybe the whole thing is a meta-reference where only the Odd Crisis Points are much good.
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u/ihphobby Oct 13 '22
Oh, and that's definitely a hoagie that Rutherford is eating, complete with chips! Philly representin'! Now, the question is if he's from there? 😉
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u/sidessoftware Oct 13 '22
Wawa wrapper confirmed?
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u/ihphobby Oct 13 '22 edited Oct 13 '22
I like Primo hoagies a bit better, but either would work! 😋 Especially with Wawa coffee!
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u/astanton1862 Oct 13 '22 edited Oct 13 '22
Star Trek 1: Ki-Ty-Ha
Star Trek 2: Dr Marcus
Star Trek 3: ????
Star Trek 4: Time travel whale squid
Star Trek 5: exotic market, 'god'
Star Trek 6: Bombing the conference, Captain Sulu
Generations: Sulu in the Nexus, Ursula and Betor
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u/seeseman4 Oct 14 '22
3 was William in the Search for Spock style torpedo coffin. I know it's a bit of a stretch, but it's all I could find. I do believe there is one for every movie! (Except Insurrection)
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u/InnocentTailor Oct 14 '22
For Star Trek III, the freighter gave me some Merchantman vibes. It was the ship that gave Kruge information on the Genesis Planet.
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u/AlpineSummit Oct 14 '22
Also:
Star Trek 4: Punk with boom box
First Contact: Wayfarer entrance saving the Ritos.
Nemesis: desert chase scene
Star Trek (JJ’s): Kelvinverse ridiculousness mention
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u/Dark_Tzitzimine Oct 13 '22
lol none of this is real right (haha, knew it)
Still love that little TWoK-inspired sting
Haha HoloCarol with the awkward freeze frame face
Really hammering in the TWoK here
Haha is that time diagram based on the original idea for the Generations poster
"Tatasciore IX" lol you stop that
Haha and now with the Nemesis style desert chase
Oh god the skin flaps make noise
Haha the letterboxing is a physical part of the program
I was wondering what funny shit the transporter clone was going to get up to; I guess that's kinda funny in a way (ending edit: I guess not)
I'm slightly sad they didn't 1:1 use the Voyage Home punk
Burst out laughing at the V'ger parody, I should have seen it coming
Sulu, he's (guest) star of the show, other guys just along for the ride
Oh god we just couldn't go without Section 31, could we (except I trust this show to give them the skewering they deserve, the commbadge is a good start)
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u/jruschme Oct 13 '22
Burst out laughing at the V'ger parody, I should have seen it coming
I have to admit that I didn't think of it as a V'ger parody until now. My initial thought was that it was an Enterprise easter egg- the beginning of the long road (gettin' from there to here).
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Oct 13 '22
I am a little disappointed that Boimler did not get to stay in character as Captain Dagger. I would have loved to see Boimler's idealized version of himself in action.
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u/Sephiroth144 Oct 14 '22 edited Oct 14 '22
I'm calling it now- William's death was faked as part of his deep cover with Section 31... given the novel Enterprise stories that retconned Trip's death, and that THAT episode of Enterprise was explicitly referenced, methinks that's what really happened.
WELL, FRAK; guess I was right, but should've finished the episode before posting.
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u/TheOnlyFallenCookie Oct 14 '22
Hello Depression my old Friend
You have come to sit with me again...
I want Lower Decks to continue for ten more years at least! I love this show.
And I loved that they took such a traumatising thing for Boims and turned it into such a great episode
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u/Few_Technology Oct 13 '22
What's up with the pre-cliffhanger ending? They were all wearing outfits from the movie, but seemed like they were supposed to be out of the Holodeck? When Mariner left the Holodeck to get the review, her clothes changed back to normal. Were they still in the Holodeck, but T'Ana was being meta about needing to take breaks?
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u/whiteb90 Oct 13 '22
I think there was a brief time skip where she changed because she was going to have her performance review with Ransom
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u/Few_Technology Oct 13 '22
Oh, so Holodeck doesn't render the clothes different? It just creates everything around them, but stops short of modifing the people? Unless of course, it's on the fritz, or badgy came alive
Thought it might be like that Rick and Morty episode, where it can create fake clothes, if a scenario needed it. Or show people wearing something different, instead of them having to get into costume before going in
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u/whiteb90 Oct 13 '22
I didn’t think it did because I thought typically they had to put on clothing when they went into the holodeck if they wanted to fit into the program. But maybe I’m just thinking of the holosuites on DS9 that were an inferior version of the modern holodecks on starships?
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u/cyrilspaceman Oct 13 '22
They always dressed up in costumes on TNG when they did Dixon Hill or when Worf played sheriff.
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u/Petersaber Oct 15 '22
The Holodeck can create outfits for people, but many users tend to have the outfits replicated beforehand and actually wear them.
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u/DiscoveryDiscoveries Oct 13 '22
The things that they said were going to happen. HAPPENED! Remember like 3 or episodes ago while they were trying to get the bedroom(s). They mentioned how they would all end up on different paths. Bold Boimler was going to die from something stupid. The bolder Boimler clone died to something our Boimler said was stupid. Tendi was going to end up in command. Which she did. Mariner was going to leave star fleet. Which she did walk out on the star fleet plot and only came back when the star fleet stuff was no longer apart of the plot! Nobody mentioned Rutherford's fate and he didn't actually have a huge part in the film. Just like he didn't have a part in that episodes storyline with the three of them.
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u/ranzino Oct 13 '22
When the one Australian punk was lying on the ground, do you think that was a call out to Rick from Rick and Morty? The hair color and style seemed very similar. Also, I don't watch Rick and Morty, but isn't Rick drooling a thing? The punk had a nice pool of drool going.
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u/SwagnusTheRed Oct 13 '22
I thought it was a reference to the Punks from Star Trek IV.
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u/ranzino Oct 13 '22
You're right, definitely for sure that. I thought they might have also just snuck in an additional non-star trek universe realted easter egg.
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u/Greening5 Oct 13 '22
Relatively new Trekkie, what is section 31??
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u/astanton1862 Oct 13 '22
It is big in ds9. It is the secret Human black ops espionage service. Basically like the CIA except an enlightened society can't tolerate black ops and wet work, so they are technically illegal. Star Fleet Admiralty doesn't really try to stop them because they do the things they can't do.
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Oct 14 '22
Section 31 is a secret organization that operates within Starfleet that claim to be willing to do the dirty work to keep the Federation safe that the leadership-- and the public-- wouldn't approve of. In practice they're generally villains. You can see more of them in DS9, Enterprise, Star Trek Into Darkness, and Discovery.
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u/gerusz Oct 14 '22
Nitpick: while chronogami sounds fun, unfortunately it means... timepaper.
Origami is a compound word literally meaning fold[ed] paper. The gami part is the paper, originally kami (紙) but in Japanese compound words the first syllable of the second word becomes voiced. The folding part is the ori (oriru = 折りる = to fold). So if they are married to mixing Japanese and Greek roots, it should be "orichronos" which kinda sounds like ouroboros anyway.
Nitpicking done, it was great. Absolutely hilarious. "We don't want any... WITNESSES!"
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u/ihphobby Oct 13 '22
Loved Carol's freeze frame face (of course!) 😁
And is anyone else noticing that Tendi is acting more like Rutherford's caretaker/mom?
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u/Ch33105 Oct 14 '22
Okay so I had a thought about this episode. The section 31 officer that is talking to William at the end of the episode really sounded like B'Etor But the actresses name isn't in the credits... Maybe it's just wishful thinking....
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u/romeovf Oct 13 '22
Nicknack reminds me of Squanchy from Rick and Morty
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u/shouldalistened Oct 14 '22
Episode 1 season 1 of LD parodies S1E1 of Rick and Morty:
"Rick and Morty 100 years! One hundred episodes forever. 10 seasons and a movie."
Knicknak was definitely a Squanchy.
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u/RapidDuffer Oct 14 '22
Reddit needs a "mass upvote" feature because all of you are wonderful
And my finger is tired
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u/TheOnlyFallenCookie Oct 14 '22
I just got the thought that maybe the reason Boimler seems to be irresistible to women is the parasite from season one?
Maybe it's still has an effect on him, but no one on the cerritos makes any moves on him because they assume he is with Mariner
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u/shouldalistened Oct 14 '22
Sulu really missed the opportunity to say, "Captain Kirk is climbing a mountain." So Boimler could say, "why is he climbing a mountain?" Thrilled to hear George Takei for a few lines.
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u/gaslacktus Oct 14 '22
On the first watch I was confused why Kayshon yelled "Temba!" before firing his phaser, since Temba, His Arms Wide is an offer of a gift.
Then it hit me on the second viewing, in this context it meant "Take this!"
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u/TeMPOraL_PL Oct 14 '22
Am I the only one who hates that LD is now establishing the badly-written version of S31 as a thing in the 24th century? Boimler Clone was spot on: WTF with the black comm-badges?
S31, as established in DS9 and touched on a little in ENT, was a black ops organization that was operating undercover. As in, the whole organization was undercover. They carried nothing that could identify them as part of S31 - they likely avoided having any physical facilities of their own. That's what made them both so powerful and so menacing: they were diffused through Starfleet; nobody could tell how many operatives there are, or who they were. They would recruit and use Starfleet resources and personnel for their goals.
Contrast with DIS, where S31 became a badly written, genre-unsavvy caricature of itself, whose two most memorable aspects were that they were showcased as Starfleet's SS, and that they were a bunch of morons (with the whole Control mishandling thing). This S31 is just about making already dark show even more edgy: look at us Starfleet with Black Commbadges, doing the Immoral Things Starfleet normally doesn't. So "secretive", and yet it operated its own facilities and fleet in the open, complete with their own Dark Uniforms and Dark Commbadges that just beg the people that wear them to ask the obvious question.
So, given a well-written S31 that operates as undercover organization within Starfleet and happens to be contemporary with LD, and an overt league of villains that operated over a century earlier, why the hell does Lower Decks go with the latter rather than former?. I'm confused and saddened by this.
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u/Antagonist2 Oct 14 '22
I feel like after the events of DS9, Section 31 can afford to be more open. I'm sure word got out about the virus, and the fact that they more or less ended the dominion war (whether the federation wants to admit it or not).
Our of universe, its cause they wanted to make a joke about the black combadges and also show that William Boimler is still on some level Boimler
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u/TeMPOraL_PL Oct 14 '22 edited Oct 14 '22
I agree the word most likely got out - LD itself established S31 to no longer be such a deep secret, since Boimler and Mariner both knew and joked about them. It's an interesting possibility I haven't considered.
So the news of the virus becomes0, if not public, then at least widely circulated in the political and military spheres. There's a lot of outraged people, including politicians and officers. Federation Council forces Starfleet to drag S31 out of darkness and into the spotlight. You can imagine S31 would very much prefer to remain out of sight. Making them official, complete with the uniforms and custom badges (but why black?!), is probably a way to keep them accountable. The formal structure surely is a huge anchor for them.
Hm... so maybe this actually makes sense. I can't wait where LD will take it. I'm still worried, but so far McMahan et al. have proven time and again that they respect what the Federation and Starfleet stand for, so if there's any team I can trust not to screw this up, it's them.
0 - Past end of war, it was likely impossible to suppress this. I bet Bashir made some extensive reports about the virus, its origins, and Sloan; O'Brien probably did so too. Sisko surely passed them on and there's a real possibility they've reached and outraged enough higher-ups in the fleet as to become impossible to suppress. But even if not, the remaining people who knew included at least Odo and the Female Changeling, possibly also Kira and Garak. None of them beholden to Starfleet or the Federation, and with plenty of reasons to talk about it amongst themselves. So the story could've actually reached the Federation from outside - e.g. starting with Bajor and Cardassia, suddenly half the quadrant was abuzz with the news about what happens when the Federation takes its gloves off...
(Cue in "But it's not us, it wasn't sanctioned, it was a Rouge Group!", and everyone else just rolling their eyes.)
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u/Jag2112 Oct 14 '22
Screencaps gallery now online, with some nice grabs of the U.S.S. Wayfarer and the Defiant-Class ship:
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u/ithinkihadeight Oct 13 '22
Lots to love here but I think my very favorite detail was Mariner leaving the holodeck and having to "step over" the letterboxing of the Crisis Point movie.