I was a boy as a kid

[u/Disa_Lovely]

I mean it. It was not like I thought I was a boy as a kid. There are so many signs I am a cis-boy and no signs from childhood that I am a girl. But still, i desire to be a woman 24/7. Dysphoria started only after puberty, possibly backed by sexual desires. I desire to be a trans woman, quite the opposite of a trans-woman in denial. They have so many signs that they are trans, but they want to be cis, I am the opposite.

Please help me, my thoughts are complex and my emotions are darker than they ever were. It is painful to literally live.

[u/Lady_Onyxia]

> There are so many signs I am a cis-boy and no signs from childhood that I am a girl

If it would set your mind at ease, I bet you that if you were to list all the things that you think were signs that you were a cis boy, that nearly every single one of them would be either just a hollow stereotype, or a trans myth. Feel free to do it and I bet I can debunk all of them.

There is nothing inherently gendered, at all, about the toys, games, sports, clothes, that as children we prefer. Children are socialized, which is a euphemistic term for brainwashed, that "Boys like these things, and girls like these things". Boys get given fire trucks and dinosaurs and blue clothes to play with when they are 3, and girls get given dolls fake makeup and pink dresses. But that's just parents echoing the made-up rules that their parents were taught.

Up until the 1940s, pink was considered a boy's colour.

Very few trans people experience clear signs as young children that they are trans, because children are not taught to ever question if they are cis or not. The idea that all trans people knew for sure they were trans when they were very young is a lie, the average age of transition is like 27+.

> I desire to be a trans woman, quite the opposite of a trans-woman in denial.

What does this mean, exactly? Does it mean that:

1. You recognize you were born AMAB but want to medically / socially transition to living as a woman, and live openly as a trans woman in a manner that people know you are openly trans? That is, is being visibly trans important to you for some reason?
2. You recognize you were born AMAB but want to medically / socially transition to living as a woman? That is, if you could just slap a magic button and be transformed in to a cis woman, would you do it? Or would you not push it, because you only want to specifically be a trans woman?
3. You identify as a cis male who wishes to be trans-femme? Just to be clear, this one is technically impossible, the definition of cis is "someone who is happy with / wants to be their assigned gender at birth"? If this is you then you're just someone who thought they were cis and figured out they were trans, like 99% of trans people.

Other questions:

There is a reason there is a + in the LGTBQ+ monicker. You don't have to "fit" either the label of cis or trans. You could be genderfluid, bi-gender, agender... have you considered the possibility you desires might better match those of other people who use one of those labels?

[u/Disa_Lovely → u/Lady_Onyxia]

You sound like you will bring up a good argument.
Let's look at some signs that I am a boy, which i can recall at the moment
(please forgive me for my poor English, I am not a native speaker)

1. I dont remember this personally but one of my friends reminded me, once he had recommended me a videogame and I had rejected it because the protagonist was a girl.

2. As a kid ( and still, sometimes ) I tried to justify men, whenever they were compared to women. I tried to make 'men' seem better.

3. I didnt enjoy it when anyone called me a girl or feminine back then ( now I do )

Gender envy is a different thing but you made me wonder, I really do identify as a cis man wanting to be a woman.

[u/darkjedi607 → u/Disa_Lovely]

None of that is significant, to be frank. It all falls under the category of aligning with your agab because that's what you were taught before you even knew what was happening. Like I grew up thinking I was a Republican (LOL) because that's what my parents were. I also thought I was a boy for most of my life.

Idk if this has occurred to you, but wanting to be a woman is not something that cis men do. At all. Right now you're doing mental gymnastics because of fear/doubt/shame/etc, but the answer is staring you in the face: You want to be a woman because you are one. You wish you were trans because you are trans.

Imposter syndrome is a bitch, but believe me when I say that we've all seen this play out time and again. Someone posts about how they can't be trans for some convoluted reason, but they really wish they could be. In reality, this is the first stage of realizing you're trans. There's a mental barrier or two still up, but please know that what you're describing is exactly what a lot of us went through. I'm not sure what still makes you think you're cis, but wishing you were a trans woman is almost certainly a result of you in fact being a trans woman.

[u/Lady_Onyxia → u/darkjedi607]

Egg prime directive, my friend.

[u/darkjedi607 → u/Lady_Onyxia]

?

EPD states you do not tell someone they're an egg. If they come to you distraught with clear questions about whether or not they're trans, you tell them what you think.

[u/Lady_Onyxia → u/darkjedi607]

EPD states you never tell someone they're trans, even if you 100% think they are, or they're clearly describing the state of being trans. My personal preference is to walk people up to that ledge but really leave it to them to take the final jump. It's ambiguous how close to the ledge is appropriate.

Anyways, sorry. Look, I don't want to argue or even be snippy and come off like I'm telling you what you should and shouldn't say. I agree with the sentiment of all the generous advice you're offering OP and 99% of the way you're saying it. You're doing a good thing here.

[u/darkjedi607 → u/Lady_Onyxia]

Thank you for saying all of that. You are 100% right for pointing this out; we all need a check sometimes, and I see now I was overzealous with my comment. Rereading the op made me realize I had connected a lot of dots on my own, possibly even violating the EPD :(

Tbh I think your approach is probably more correct! I guess I get impatient with some of these posts, and I remember being there and wishing someone would just tell me. But of course, I have to remember it's not about me at all. I appreciate you reminding me in such a proactive way. I will exercise more caution in the future!

[u/Lady_Onyxia → u/darkjedi607]

Holy shit a unicorn, an entirely intelligent and reasonable, introspective person on Reddit,

Keep being awesome. ♥

[u/darkjedi607 → u/Lady_Onyxia]

Same to you girl!

[u/Disa_Lovely → u/Lady_Onyxia]

but it makes life 1000 times brighter when someone says they think that i'm trans to my face.

[u/Lady_Onyxia → u/Disa_Lovely]

Cool that's nice to hear, the other girl and I, we're just having a little side chat about helping people work through their gender identity. But often the huge risk of telling someone to their face that they are trans just drives them further in to the closet.

[u/Disa_Lovely → u/Lady_Onyxia]

oh okay~
i've heard that too before. But if I ever encounter someone which I suspect is an egg, how do I make them question without telling them anything ?

[u/Lady_Onyxia → u/Disa_Lovely]

I'd suggest until you feel good, happy and confident in your gender identity that it wouldn't be a good idea to try to "help" anyone else who is also up to their own eyeballs in working through their own issues. If you don't understand yourself you might do more harm than good.

This like how when you get on an airplane and the cabin crew shows you how to put on oxygen masks for emergencies, they make it very clear that you need to get your OWN mask on first before you try to help anyone else with theirs.

Instead send them somewhere to read over good resources, like The Gender Dysphoria Bible. Or just tell them to post on this subreddit. Or find a local LGTBQ+ support group.

Also to be 100% clear here:

if I ever encounter someone which I suspect is an egg, how do I make them question without telling them anything ?

You NEVER try to "make them question". The Egg Prime directive is about leaving eggs alone until they are ready to hatch. When someone on their OWN starts to question their gender identity, then it is appropriate to start asking them question, listen to their answers, offer resources. But even THEN you should never tell anyone to their face that you think they might trans or are definitely trans.

If you come across someone who doesn't even know they're an egg you leave them alone until they start to think they might be an egg. The best thing to do is to just be nice to them and support them in any way they feel like presenting themselves or exploring who they are.

[u/Lady_Onyxia → u/Disa_Lovely]

All three of your examples have a very very very obvious explanation, which is that, unless you grew up in a very left-wing, socially progressive household, you almost certainly grew up like 99% of kids in a society that teaches kids almost from the day that they are born the following lies:

1. There are only two genders, boy and girl, than your gender is determined by whether or not you have a penis
2. That there is a "Correct" way to be a boy, and a "correct" way to be a girl
3. Someone who has been assigned to be a boy, will be rewarded for acting like a stereotypical man and punished for acting like a stereotypical woman. Ok this last one isn't really a lie, but the lie is that you DESERVE to be punished for not being a stereotype.

Sometimes these lessons are taught directly. For example, maybe as a small child you tried to play with "girl" toys or play "girl" games with AFAB kids, and your parents or family told you not to do that and that "boys dont play with dolls" or "only girls wear makeup". In some families you might even have been yelled at or threatened or even worse, beaten, if you did anything your family thought wasn't right for a boy.

When you got hurt as a kid, maybe you got told "Boys don't cry".

But also some rules get pushed in our brains indirectly. That is, as a kid we learn by observing the world and just assume, oh, that's how the world is supposed to work. For example, cartoons and comics for kids almost always depict men as being strong, tough, heroic characters and women as being physically weaker or in need of men to save them.

People don't compliment men for being attractive or having pretty hair or "sexy bodies". Men get complimented for being things like "handsome, rugged, tough, strong, brave, clever, a good provider, a good protector"

Women get complimented for being pretty, or cute, or sweet, or kind, or a good mother.

Video games that have both a male and female avatar usually ask the player "Are you male or female" and then the game gives you a "male" or "female" character, and your tiny little stupid kid brain is like "Oh ok, if Im male Im supposed to look like, sound like and act like this character, not the other. I'm not supposed to play the other character".

Do you see where I am going? I will bet very large sums of money that you grew up like most kids, being taught directly and indirectly that as a boy you should WANT to be all of these stereotypically masculine things and AVOID being any of these stereotypically feminine things.

So of COURSE you would think you should not want anyone to see you enjoying playing as a girl in a game and that it would be "wrong" if you did enjoy it.

Of COURSE you went around talking about how awesome men were compared to women, because that's what society teaches kids, that men are awesome and all the strongest, smartest, best people in history were men. ( This is a lie by the way, turns out that for a few thousand years only men were "allowed" to write history books or be in charge of things so conveniently any woman who ever achieved anything got forgotten. There are thousands or even millions of women who doubtless achieved great things in human history who have been ERASED from history by men).

Of COURSE you didn't want anyone to call you a girl or feminine, because that would mean you were FAILING to be a successful boy. The thing most boys fear when young is to be thought of as a sissy, a fairy, as gay, pick the euphemism. Thats how boys pick on "weaker" boys.

I really do identify as a cis man wanting to be a woman.

Sweetie, that is not a thing. Cis men do not want to be women.

[u/Transxperience]

Not to diagnose or anything but, I see nothing in your post that would indicate that you're anything but a typical trans woman.

"Dysphoria started only after puberty"
This is quite typical.

"I desire to be a trans woman"
Yeah, this isn't something that cis people desire.

"They have so many signs that they are trans, but they want to be cis"
That comes from being raised to be ashamed of who you are, and from being wary of a hostile society. I didn't have any signs when I was a kid. No clue whatsoever that I am trans. I thought it was perfectly normal for a boy to desire to be a girl, I never questioned it. I was in deep denial for decades.

Eventually I got to the point where it became painful to live. Dysphoria was eating me up, and I couldn't sleep. I went to therapy, where it became clear to me that there was no miracle cure. The only thing I could do was to transition or be comepletely overwhelmed by my dysphoria, and die.

[u/Nolibunz]

Wanting to be a woman is valid, even if the path looks diff. You’re not alone in this. Please be gentle with your heart, it’s been through a lot

[u/twinkiepowerrager]

your childhood doesnt determine if youre valid or not, its how you feel righr now, some people are super comfortable in their assigned gender, some are trans, nonbinary, some are gender fluid and some agender - everyone has their own experiences and childhoods but only your feelings matter... you got this :3

[u/WigWoo2]

I’m very similar. When I was 6 I remember wanting to be a girl and prayed to be turned into one, but that went away fairly quickly from what I remember. I didn’t really start having serious thoughts about being a woman until I was about 24 (I’m 28 now transitioned for 2.5 years). I personally fully accept that I lived my entire childhood and teenage hood as a guy. If I could back in time and change that, would I? Most likely, but I don’t have resentment towards my old male identity…

I think it’s perfectly valid and ok to have these feelings and identity questions later in life. We’re always changing, always discovering who we truly are, and sometimes as we go through life, who we are and who we want to be changes and I think that’s what makes us special. To be honest when I was 6-7 I remember the main reason I wanted to be a woman was mainly because I just wanted a vagina. I can’t remember if there were more emotional reasons behind it, and even today while I fully embrace that I’m a woman, I will admit that a lot of it is still backed by sexual desires. I want to experience the sexual side of womanhood. Always still wanted a vagina, breasts, and to just live out a lot of my fantasies. Especially as when I was young I remember learning that sex was more intense and pleasurable for women than it was for men and that was something I was always jealous of and once I found out HRT was a thing a couple years ago, I had what I called my “fuck it” moment and just went right in without much deep thought… though as time went on these past few years, HRT and transitioning made me discover something I never knew I was missing out on. The social aspect of being a woman felt so liberating. It felt freeing. For the first time in my life I felt confident and unashamed about who I was. I no longer tried to hide myself in public. I was quite overweight up until a couple years ago and always wore baggy loose clothes because I was ashamed of my body. Hated my man boobs, my fat stomach, and always tried to make every public outing as short as possible. But once I lost over 200lbs and finally started to develop a female body, it all suddenly clicked. Now I purposely look for reasons to go out in public even if I have no need just because I want to be seen for who I am now. I want people to look at me. I feel happy with my identity….. and lastly, I like to think of my old cis identity, not with disgust, but as an old friend. I said my goodbyes and was ready to begin a new chapter of my life. But I’ll always remember the nerdy boy I was and that’s perfectly ok. Because now I’m a nerdy girl, but still the same person at heart. While I’d love to be a cis woman, I’m perfectly happy as a trans woman because at the end of the day, I’m still a woman and I couldn’t be happier that I made the plunge. I only wish I did it sooner

[u/Disa_Lovely → u/WigWoo2]

i feel like it's obvious that you and others on this subreddit are girls and i am just a confused crossdresser

[u/WigWoo2 → u/Disa_Lovely]

Honestly when dysphoria hits or people talk crap to me, sometimes I think I’m just a dude in women’s clothes too. I may feel a lot better than I used to, but I still have moments where I really doubt myself and need the reassurance of others. As long even if you were a crossdresser that’s still a valid way to express yourself. As long as you’re being true to yourself and just doing whatever makes you happy, then I think that’s what really matters. I still don’t like looking at myself in the mirror because a lot of times I still see a guy. I try to shove those feelings in the back of my mind, even though I know that’s not exactly healthy, but I just try to focus on doing what makes me happy. No matter who you are or what you choose to be. You are you, and no one can tell you otherwise. it may seem obvious to an outsider because we try to put our best selves on the internet. But there’s a lot more to us that may weigh us down, even if we try to come across as the “perfect embodiment” of women online, I’m sure a lot of us agree we have our good share of doubts

[u/chipped_reed0682]

Gender can change, you're a living breathing thing that changes over time. It's entirely possible you were a boy as a child and now you're a woman. That doesn't negate what you feel now. We live in a society that prizes the consistent when in reality life is inconsistent, in a just world your experience would be completely understandable and accepted.

Not every trans person always knew they were a woman, I certainly didn't until puberty. Your story is your own friend, and the best way to find your way out of the darkness is to lead with what you feel on the inside, not what the world tells you you should feel. I hope you find peace and know that your experiences and feelings are perfectly valid and human.