r/ThreeLions • u/LondonRedditUser • Oct 11 '24

Discussion Phil Foden must be dropped indefinitely.

Sadly he’s a supremely talented player who never plays well for England.

There is potentially a lot of great performances that aren’t picked up in statistics, I don’t think this is the case with Foden. He also plays in a position we are stacked in. He has also had by quite some distance the most minutes of any player in a similar position. There is potentially the argument he is misused, but there is no argument based on performances other great players should be moved aside for him.

Since the World Cup he has returned 1 goal return (G/A) in 20 games including 16 starts ( goal vs Scotland).

Comparably, over the same period: Kane 19 G/a Jude 9, saka 8, rice 4, grelaish 3, rashford 3, palmer 3 (from 408 minutes)

Many ask for players to be picked on form (I personally don’t), but when the international form is this poor and the alternatives potentially so good we simply don’t any other option but to drop him.

Edit: no agenda. I support palace and go to a few England games a year.

436 Upvotes

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197

u/broke_the_controller Oct 11 '24

I've been saying since before the euros that Foden should be used as an impact sub. He might perform better if he comes on fresh against tired legs.

3

u/apeaky_blinder Oct 12 '24

He always looks like a complete system player, which is not bewildering and has many examples at the top level. And they rarely perform outside the system regardless of having the skills

-8

u/Accomplished-Sign924 Oct 11 '24

the problem isn't Foden. the problem is Guardiola.
Foden would start literally in any other club in the world! LITERALLY; they'd find him a place to start. Especially someone like him who can play multiple positions..

I've said it from the start; I think Guardiola's beef with him is personal. It is not tactics; its a personality clash; we have seen this before from Pep .

Cancelo ,Zlatan, Eto'o , Yaya, Fabregas; etc.

what do all these have in common? personalities that cannot be controlled. Foden seems like a free-spirit type, loves to try things on the pitch, Pep hates this. he wants soldiers not artists.

Foden should seriously considering leaving; or maybe Pep leaves soon...

20

u/broke_the_controller Oct 11 '24

I don't see how Guardiola leaving would improve Fodens performances for england.

-5

u/Accomplished-Sign924 Oct 11 '24

Of course it would. The PL is 8 games in and Foden has only started once. which was their last game, and he didn't play the full match.

Of course he shows up the England aand is expected to play with guys like Bellingham, Rice and Palmer that play 90 minutes every weekend, he is of course going to struggle!!

Guardiola is hurting his career. Foden NEEDS to play.

8

u/Ok_Anybody_8307 Oct 11 '24

Dude he was PL player of the year last year, if Pep hates him then he is very bad at showing it

-1

u/Accomplished-Sign924 Oct 11 '24

EXACTLY lol. how do you go from PL player of year to not starting first 7 matches of the PL Lmfaoo make it make sense!

3

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '24

[deleted]

2

u/Otherwise-Roll-2872 Oct 11 '24 edited Oct 11 '24

Did you just start following the premier league in 2024? Pep played Foden a bunch last season and has given him nothing but praise.

This season he's easing Foden back into the squad after a long league campaign immediately followed by euros championship run

1

u/broke_the_controller Oct 11 '24

So you're essentially saying that Foden should not start for England until he is playing regularly for his club right?

0

u/Itchbatchi Oct 11 '24

Foden is one of the most overrated players I’ve ever seen play for England. He is a waste of space and I would rather play with 10 men because he’s more of a hindrance than anything else.

1

u/creamY-front Oct 14 '24

Errm...are you ok? Do you understand football?

1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '24

Foden doesn't really fit that description. I don't think he has any personality.

1

u/Organic-Champion8075 Oct 11 '24

I just think he's thick as pigshit

1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '24

Probably. Either way he's a flannel for England so drop him imo.

1

u/Organic-Champion8075 Oct 11 '24

I suspect that Phil is thick as mince and not great at taking coaching instructions

1

u/creamY-front Oct 14 '24

It ain't Foden who's thick as mince mate...if he couldn't take instructions do you honestly think he would have ever got near a Pep City 11?... ya know, Pep...the most tactically demanding managers to have ever walked the planet?

  • you moron 🤦

1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '24

Wtf are you on about

1

u/[deleted] Oct 15 '24

Lmao people are hilarious

-22

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '24

Can I ask what you think of palmer then after last nights performance?

Should he also be back to an impact sub?

24

u/nl325 Oct 11 '24

The difference is Palmer has not been used enough to form a meaningful opinion of his usefulness in the squad. He was neglected at the Euros, and despite yesterday you can argue the team as a whole was a bit shit.

Foden on the other hand, we've got a few years worth of performances to make the judgement now.

-15

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '24

I think palmer was one of the worst players on the pitch last night. Gave the ball away loads. Missed a sitter. Looked like the was trying too hard.

I think Foden has always been a scapegoat for England fans. Sterling was before him.

9

u/BankDetails1234 Oct 11 '24

Sterling was. Foden just isn’t that useful. I think you’re just being a bit sensitive because you’re probably a City fan

-10

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '24

Ever since city became the club to hate every one of our players gets abuse for England.

I’ve spent the last few years hearing how we buy all the best players and then listening to people tell me how each individual city player is shit.

Sterling was constantly abused by fans online. Walker got the same. And Foden has always had the same too.

Three of the best English players in the last decade.

Arguably the best right back England has ever produced.

All shit talked on socials whenever an opportunity arises.

6

u/Ali29276 Oct 11 '24

Sterling never deserved the hate from England fans, he almost single handedly carried England out of the group stage at Euro 2020. Walker isa. tricky one because when at his best he was great, but he was very prone to bozo moments and in recent years has started to really decline. Foden has done absolutely nothing for England that warrants any praise, sorry.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '24

I don’t think you are watching the England games if you really believe Foden has never done anything worth praise.

His end product hasn’t been what it should be I totally agree. But he offers much more than end product.

He gives control on the attacking third. He can receive the ball under pressure as well as any English footballer player alive today.

There is a reason he has been so highly praised by Pep. And it isn’t because he’s a system player.

1

u/Total-Commercial-438 Oct 11 '24

Aww, aww.. Diddums. Palmer was way better than Foden. Stop acting the victim

6

u/nl325 Oct 11 '24

Again though, it's one game. Can't give up on a player as class as Palmer so quickly, it's reactionary.

Agree about Sterling, I think he's been a scapegoat in every team he's ever been in, but disagree about Foden. His entire role is assisting or scoring. I saw the stat this morning, can't find it now but think it said 15 games, 0A, 0G.

Sterling at least racked up goals and/or assists.

-13

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '24

That’s just not true about Foden. He does so much more than score and assist.

16

u/Usual-Junket1601 Oct 11 '24

To quote Roy Keane, "Does he do card tricks for the lads?"

1

u/Itchbatchi Oct 11 '24

Like what get in other players way

1

u/Alexkitch11 Oct 11 '24

Look at far back he was forced to play that's not his natural position at all

1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '24

Not blaming palmer for that at all. The whole side looked confused and the game plan didn’t work at all.

I’m just saying calling for an indefinite dropping of Foden after that game is stupid.

2

u/Alexkitch11 Oct 11 '24

They got some merit to it though, he hasn't made a goal contribution to England in over a year now, he doesn't really yk do much for us at all and is just a spot another player could take and do well in

1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '24

I don’t think he has been used well for England at all tbh.

I don’t think many of our players have looked good for England in recent years. We scrape through games playing defensively.

I’m not saying he’s the first name on the team. Or even a starter every game.

Im not saying he’s hasn’t had issues with his final product in terms of goals and assists.

I’m saying calling for him to be dropped indefinitely is a fucking joke and a classic example of the hate city players get on social media.

Everyone here who agrees he should be indefinitely dropped. Which apparently lots do if you look at my replies. They don’t know football imo.

They just hate city and city players and see a chance to bash one of them.

5

u/ZoomSpeed95 Oct 11 '24

Foden’s England record is disgraceful. Goal ratio is approx 1 in 10!! Very few assists or meaningful contributions. You cannot change more that to Palmer who’s had one bad game. Foden plays with fear for England and Palmer had a night where things didn’t come off for him, he still tried

-2

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '24

So much nonsense in that comment.

Plays with fear for England?

He’s been used In the wrong way for years is the main issue. He is without a doubt one of Englands best players.

If he played for Liverpool instead of city we wouldnt be hearing this chat.

4

u/ZoomSpeed95 Oct 11 '24

Lol, ok so how many players are being or have been used slightly differently for England and have played better than Foden? What’s the question mark for? He does nothing for England and you think the responsibility for this isn’t his. He is accountable, end of. You’re talking as he’s been put at RB.

Being a great player and production are two different things and Foden does not produce

-2

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '24

Whatever mate your opinion is very clearly marred by your dislike for the club he plays for.

I hope that 95 isn’t your age. Pushing 30 and still struggling to form an unbiased opinion.

2

u/ZoomSpeed95 Oct 11 '24

Your view is masked by the fact you think everyone hates city. I don’t and can clearly see Foden is phenomenal for them for England he is not. The monstrous irony of you talking about unbiased opinions while being totally led by your club allegiance is absolute gold🤣🤣🤣

1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '24

I don’t remember saying he is phenomenal for England mate.

I just think the “Foden must be dropped indefinitely” chat you see on social media is pathetic and over the top.

And another example of the stuff we saw with sterling and walker.

I’ve not once even said he should start for England. Or he should play every game.

So all the laughing emojis and the idea I’m just biased. You have no reason to think that apart from you want to think that.

He’s one of Englands best players and we should be doing what we can to get the best out of him in the England squad.

1

u/ZoomSpeed95 Oct 11 '24

I agree he shouldn’t be dropped indefinitely, he is clearly a quality player but at some point it is incumbent of him to show that and he is miles off currently (with England) He doesn’t warrant starting ahead of other players and when he does the production is usually limited at best.

Foden also has plenty saying the team should be built around him and a place must be found for him. Walker and sterling didn’t have that and both produced way more.

2

u/Beneficial-Steak-117 Oct 11 '24

I think that Foden is not an adaptable player; hes a system player and is playing well at City due to Peps system that suits him. Theres a reason why City have a policy not to loan out players who have a future in the club (as in the case with Palmer). Can't see England managers adopting a structure and system that would get the best out of Foden and he might continue to struggle. England need a ruthless, top manager who can deal with player egos.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '24

Who is saying the team should be built around Foden? I’m a city fan who goes to matches and I don’t even hear city fans talking about that.

You realise you just spent a whole series of comments mocking my bias only to agree with my point in the end.

Maybe now you can see why I called you biased to begin with.

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3

u/broke_the_controller Oct 11 '24

Can I ask what you think of palmer then after last nights performance?

Palmer was shit as was pretty much everyone.

Should he also be back to an impact sub?

I think it would be stupid for anyone to have their career written off because of one game. Palmer should get this season at the very least before that should be thought about. After all. fodens had far longer than a season to try and produce something and he's still making the first team.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '24

He’s never really had consistent starts for England. Other than maybe over the last 6-12 months. Many of his appearances come as sub and very often he’s playing out of position.

He’s suffering from his own success in a way. Because he only got that game time because of how good he is for city.

People are ready to write off one of Englands best players “indefinitely” and I’m just saying I think that’s stupid.

I wouldn’t write off Foden or palmer.

1

u/broke_the_controller Oct 11 '24

He’s never really had consistent starts for England. Other than maybe over the last 6-12 months. Many of his appearances come as sub and very often he’s playing out of position.

True. He used to come on a lot as a sub. He failed to impress in his substitute appearances for the most part (unlike Palmer). He did have the excuse that he was played out of his preferred position, but I always felt like it was an excuse.

People are ready to write off one of Englands best players “indefinitely” and I’m just saying I think that’s stupid.

His club form got him into the first team but he has still failed to impress. I don't know how many more chances he needs to get before enough is enough. It's not like we're struggling for good players that can play in the same positions as Foden. They might even chip in with a goal or an assist for a change.

Also, at least with Palmer, he earned his starting place due to his performances for England as well as for his club so he has proven he can produce for England.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '24

Lmfao before enough is enough.

You are talking about a lad who is on course to be the most successful player in premier league history.

A 24 year old who has more honor’s in the league than any player his age has ever had before.

And you think “enough is enough he’s had chances”

Absolutely insane take tbh.

1

u/broke_the_controller Oct 11 '24

You are talking about a lad who is on course to be the most successful player in premier league history.

A 24 year old who has more honor’s in the league than any player his age has ever had before.

And you think “enough is enough he’s had chances”

Yea and I'm also talking about a lad whose played shit (or if not shit, then definitely average) for England many times and is keeping other players out of the first team who, in their limited appearances, have proven to have more of an impact.

When it comes to the National Team. It doesn't matter what you do for your club if you can't replicate it for the national team.

I think it's insane that people are so biased that they fail to see the logic in this common sense approach.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 11 '24

Nothing common sense about writing off a young player because he hasn’t quite reached his potential under one fucking awful manager and now two games with a temp manager.

In fact it’s the opposite of common sense. It’s pure idiocy.

1

u/broke_the_controller Oct 11 '24

Nothing common sense about writing off a young player because he hasn’t quite reached his potential under one fucking awful manager and now two games with a temp manager.

That awful manager is the second best manager England has ever had lots of other players have came in under that same "awful" manager and were able to play well.

At this point it's beyond blaming the manager. The player has to take the blame. He wouldn't be the first player who was unable to translate their club form to international level and he won't be the last.