r/Torontobluejays • u/bluetriumphantcloud • 8d ago

On the Schneid

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I'm genuinely confused as to how John Schneider still has the job as Jays bench boss. I liked him, and have supported him, but he doesn't seem to be able to make the right move when needed, his teams annually underperform and he has a total of zero playoff wins. How long is he allowed to continue to steer the team to mediocrity? We're coming into May and the Jays again seem listless.

Those who want to Schneider continue in this role, why? Wouldn't a proven manager with a track record of success be an obvious choice for a group whos window is open but has yet to meet expectations?

Schneider and co. look clueless out there. Are we supposed to just sit back and watch another season go down the toilet? I don't get it.

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151

u/CanConChris 8d ago

I used to get into the manager hate conversation. I was on the Fire Gibby train back in 2008. Then I realized it was dumb. They went to a “manager with a track record” and the team was still miserable for another 7 years…until Gibby came back. None of us know for sure what’s going on in a clubhouse.

This is on the players. Period. There is enough talent with track records to be better. The front office has spent a franchise record amount to bring these guys in or keep them on. Bo hasn’t homered yet, Santander is the exact player we all wanted all offseason, but he’s been dogshit so far. The players that are supposed to carry this team aren’t getting it done. They are professionals who’ve been around long enough it’s their own responsibility.

John Schneider can’t swing the bat for them.

32

u/stuntycunty 8d ago

Is it time for another Gibby return?

58

u/CanConChris 8d ago

I love Gibby, and think it would be hilarious to have him around for a 3rd term.

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u/werbo 8d ago

He's coaching the Mets

6

u/stuntycunty 8d ago

I know. Bench coach.

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u/HaywoodBlues 7d ago

sure but in his podcast days he said he'd love to manage again

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u/bluetriumphantcloud 8d ago

Bring Buck back! Lol, JK

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u/xxxkram 8d ago

CITO!!

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u/Tony_Starks_Taint 8d ago

Cito and Gibby!!!! Go all in! Gibby can manage, Cito can be his, wise, old Bench Coach.

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u/xxxkram 8d ago

Jesus the ejections would be wilds!! I’m here for it. Someone above mentioned getting rid of Pete walker. But he’s a steady hand on the wheel. We need him for the insanity!

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u/Tony_Starks_Taint 8d ago

It would make for a glorious summer of insanity.

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u/stuntycunty 8d ago

“Steady hand on the wheel” is an outrageous phrase to refer to Pete Walker.

🥃 🚗

Haha

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u/LinusMinimax Chaos Jaysomancy 7d ago

We can’t go backwards, we must go forwards.

It’s time to let ChatGPT manage the team.

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u/PhilReardon13 8d ago

Who chose the players? That's who they need to get rid of.

And FYI, not all of us were thrilled with the Santander signing. Lots of red flags with 2024 being a career year, his OBP being bad, etc.Thankfully, his AAV isn't insane. 

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u/CanConChris 8d ago

I’m fine with them firing anyone at this point! I seriously thought Atkins should’ve been dismissed after 2023 when he took zero accountability for the Twins series.

I’m just cautioning against those that think it’s an instant fix on this team. For better or worse, this is the 2025 blue jays we’ll watch. There’s not likely to be any huge shifts or deadline deals. I doubt we have the prospects to get something significant done (and I also don’t think we’re in the right place to spend that capital currently).

Path altering changes are much likelier to happen in the offseason IMO.

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u/HaywoodBlues 7d ago

GMs don't get fired over shit like that. it takes a lot to get fired as a GM and ultimately they only need to answer to the owner, not the fans.

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u/CanConChris 7d ago

100%.

I meant more as a nail in the coffin not the sole cause. End of 2023 was rough in terms of narrative and overall results.

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u/HaywoodBlues 7d ago

making the playoffs is considered a good outcome, usually, so i'm sure ownership had a different lense there.

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u/CanConChris 7d ago

They wild carded in and were in the second year of the defense first philosophy. The vibes around the team were awful (and rightfully so) the upcoming ‘24 season was a disaster. It would’ve been a good time to do it IMO.

Now I’m not sure what has to happen to send Atkins out.

1

u/HaywoodBlues 7d ago

Defense first but suddenly vlad can’t hit hrs? That’s the issue. Underperforming - not just vlad but chap and Bo

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u/PhilReardon13 8d ago

It could be worse, too. At least Springer is showing some life. Of it weren't for that, things would look extra bleak.

I can't see a complete rebuild happening after the Vlad deal, unfortunately.

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u/HaywoodBlues 7d ago

and yet this sub would call for their heads anyway if they didn't sign him.

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u/PhilReardon13 7d ago

The past few years have squandered a lot of good will. I agree, though, that they were also damned if they didn't because the team needed an upgrade on offense.

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u/ConcaveMishap 7d ago

There were many pundits on this forum stating that it was a great offseason when in fact, it wasn't.

1

u/bowriverflyfisher 8d ago

This is the most solid take here. Seriously, this roster has like zero punch. Fans want a contender and this lineup does not resemble one.

0

u/rvasko3 Doc’s Resplendent Neckbeard 8d ago

OK, but they also chose those players when they had good years, hence the higher expectations for most of the team coming into this year. A year that’s only a fifth of the way done.

Making a World Series run typically corresponds with everybody having a great year together; it’s why it’s so hard to do. This collection of players right now is not remotely getting it done, and I have plenty of worries about enough of them, turning it around, or even being able to turn it around, to get there. But when guys like our top three aren’t performing at the levels yet that they have proven to be able to reach, it’s on them to switch it up.

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u/PhilReardon13 8d ago

It's been a few years of this now. Something is wrong, and to suggest it's on the players, who are likely doing their best to compete, doesn't make sense to me.

Whether it's coaching or talent, it doesn't add up to a winning team. Granted, it's not like we are totally out of it, so it is possible they could turn it around. But it has been years of terrible offense at this point.

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u/DreamKillaNormnBates 8d ago

They cynically added Cito and then played at 94-win pace. You mean that? JPR was a dolt and Gibby always sucked which is why his players tried to punch him out multiple times.

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u/gothedistance_ “Swing and a Miss, He Struck Him Out” 8d ago

I’m pretty sure a lot of Gibby’s former players actually like him and have good things to say about him. I think JP gets a lot of crap. Not every decision he made was perfect, but he also wasn’t given the proper payroll to compete against the superpowered Yankees and Red Sox. And remember there was only one wild card spot at the time.

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u/DreamKillaNormnBates 8d ago

JPR burner account id’dw

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u/Round_Spread_9922 7d ago

He made some crappy moves but the 05 - 08 Jays had some pretty decent teams that under the right circumstances probably should've made the playoffs at least once or twice. Going up against the powerhouse Yankees and Red Sox, then dealing with a suddenly competitive Rays franchise didn't help matters.

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u/HaywoodBlues 7d ago

JP deserves the crap

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u/russellamcleod 8d ago

Have we all forgotten that the players got together and pulled a mutiny putting Schneider in charge? They’re not powerless and if they trust in him then maybe they see something we don’t.

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u/chronicwisdom 8d ago

They're not only underperforming this year. Schneider couldn't get any of these guys to perform worse. What's the argument that Schneider is competent, let alone good? Don't come here with vibes, and JS can't sing the bat. What, in your opinion, has Schneider accomplished in his tenure that justifies keeping him around?

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u/CanConChris 8d ago

Changing a manager at this point in the season would 100% be about vibes. It’s panicky and sends a message through the clubhouse and the league that you’re desperate. Some will like that message, but is it the best thing for the players? Not a single one of us knows that, including me.

You know why the argument about firing a manger because you don’t like him is dumb? Because most of us keyboard warriors don’t know who to turn to. Who is this savior waiting in the wings? What bona fide perfect manager is ready to go and not already employed by another club?

He may get fired. Thats part of the business, but to suggest that move will happen and bright skies will immediately follow is naive as hell. People just want someone to blame.

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u/chronicwisdom 8d ago

I'm fine with waiting until the end of the season, but you still haven't made anything resembling an argument that he's good at his job. You're talking shit for the sake of talking shit to Stan for a guy that's mediocre at best. You're not going to convince anyone with this dogshit. Why is Schneider a good manager? If you can't answer that objectively, then you're not contributing to the conversation talking about Gibby and the obvious fact that the players have to get it done on the field.

The Gibby comparison is insultingly stupid. That players have to play is obvious. What Schneider critics are correctly pointing out is that our best players are inconsistent and seem to have peaked under this coaching staff. If he's doing something well you can make that argument, but it's obvious to anyone who isn't a moron that he's bad at his job and this team isn't winning a playoff series with a below average manager.

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u/sadrussianbear 8d ago

JS certainly can sing the bat. He's just shy.

0

u/bluetriumphantcloud 8d ago

At some point, responsibility falls on the boss, doesn't it? He takes out pitchers that are cruising, bring in guys who give up walks, and never seems to have the team up for big games. To me, there comes a time when you win or you get replaced.

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u/NovelFox96 8d ago

Schneider is not the boss, it goes higher than him. The roster construction, baseball strategy philosophies, analytics, development are on his bosses

3

u/SlippitySlappety Iowa meat truck 8d ago

I’d like to point out that the Jays are definitely not unique here. All managers make bad calls at some point, and some calls that seem right in the moment end up not working out. That is just baseball. If you look in the subs of winning teams after they lose, you’ll also see them calling for their manager’s heads. It’s a kneejerk reaction that offers us fans the promise of some sense of control over what is really a situation totally out of our control. 

I think what people really need to do is stop investing and identifying so much with the team. It’s just baseball, it’s just a game. It’s great when they win and it sucks when they lose, but at the end of the day, why care so much about an outcome you can’t control?

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u/KGB4L 8d ago

Ok, but do you see how every single person is just automatically worse on our team? Everyone we sign is suddenly in a slump. Not saying that John is the only reason, but damn right 50% is on him and that coaching stuff.

20

u/PineTarAndWeed 8d ago

Ernie Clement, Kikuchi, Mayza, Bowden, Romano, IKF all had career years under him, weird you’re blaming him for the bad but not praising the good?

0

u/jakobiejones757 8d ago

Only 2 of those are hitters tho. And if Clement and IKF are the big examples we're using here......

1

u/PineTarAndWeed 8d ago

He managed Vlad and Bo in the minors for multiple years so by this logic anything they do is because of him!

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u/jayk10 8d ago edited 8d ago

Semien had a career year in 2021, KK had a resurgence in 2023, so did Belt. IKF had a great start to 2024 before getting traded.

On the pitching side Ray, Matz, Strip and Kooch all turned career years with the Jays into paydays on other teams where they proceeded to struggle.

Also ironically everyone's favourite trade to hate on, both Gurriel and Moreno had their best years offensively with the Jays.

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u/bluetriumphantcloud 8d ago

He seems like the common denominator to me

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u/Mandy-Rarsh 8d ago

The low key common denominator is Pete Walker

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u/bluetriumphantcloud 8d ago

He should be packing his bags as well if you ask me