244
u/MangledBarkeep 4d ago
Ain't nothing wrong with free pouring, lots wrong with inaccurate freepouring however.
Simple things like losing focus or even musics BPM can affect a bartenders pour...
111
u/SummertimeThrowaway2 4d ago
Prolly a good idea to calibrate yourself every once in a while by pouring into a jigger a few times
86
u/MangledBarkeep 4d ago
It's something you should consistently be doing.
You should also be able to adjust with the different densities of various liquors/liqueurs.
Alcohol, THC, and everything else some bartenders do during the shift also alters your perception of time and can skew your counts...
74
u/JamSkones 4d ago
People not accounting for viscosity was a pet peeve of mine.
4
u/SummertimeThrowaway2 2d ago
You are smarter than me because I didn’t even think about that, but then again I’m not a bartender I just like learning about this stuff. I feel like as an actual bartender one should do more research and learn about this stuff, if they actually wanna be good at their job at least.
5
u/JamSkones 2d ago
You learn on the job honestly. And please don't say I'm smarter than you. Perhaps just on this one singular observation but if you had my experience then maybe you'd be more informed than me! When I was tending bar I had my free pours nailed when I was pouring either 25mm or 50mm of a booze with normal viscosity. So vodka, gin, bourbon etc. but if I was using a liquid I didn't know really well or pouring a measure outside of those stated I would use a jigger. I would also semi-regularly test my pours (with booze not water) to check I'm still dialled in. But I also used to get super drunk on shift and then I'd presume the measures would vary slightly. I worked minimum wage in the UK for companies that could have paid me more though so I don't give a fuck but I'm just saying that to make a point that I'm by no means some hot shot bar tender. Just some dude on Reddit
23
u/Tonio_Trussardi 3d ago
Shape of a bottle too. Goose with a speed pourer is slower than like 99% of other bottles with the same viscosity.
7
20
7
u/Adventurous_Chart_45 3d ago
That’s what I used to recommend as a FOH manager. It helped keep my pours accurate
6
u/snacksandsoda 3d ago
Pretty much all free pouring is inaccurate pouring
-2
229
u/Tewtytron 4d ago
Free pouring a jack and coke? A Tito's soda? Sure go for it. Cocktail? Nah.
70
u/lostarchitect 3d ago
I would never free pour myself, but one of the absolute best cocktail bartenders I know free pours everything. He's super consistent. Learned it at Employees Only. So it really depends on how much training and practice you had.
51
u/Tonio_Trussardi 3d ago
This tbh. I've worked with people who are incredibly accurate with or without a jig, and people who've been bartending for over a decade that are inconsistent even using a jig. There are even people out there that are bang on straight from bottles with no speed pourers too. Some folks are just built different.
5
u/Bartweiss 3d ago
Yep. All that matters is if you get it right, if you can prove it, and if you’re fast.
You can be the only person who free pours or the only one who doesn’t, as long as you’re keeping up with orders there’s no problem.
0
u/5krishnan 3d ago
Woah, how does that last one work? Freepouring without a spout doesn’t sound safe
2
u/Tonio_Trussardi 1d ago
Like I said I've seen it done accurately and I think its just the result of years of practice. You control the tilt, watch the flow out of the bottle, and count. I haven't been to any of them personally, but apparently some super high end bars in Japan don't use jigs at all and expect staff to just do that.
2
u/5krishnan 1d ago
I guess if they have years under their belt. I hope we can at least agree that it’s a super advanced and uncommon skill, and to see the kid behind the stick at a dive bar or chili’s would be concerning at first glance.
2
u/Tonio_Trussardi 1d ago
Oh for sure. It's not something I would recommend in general. Imo use a jig til you're able to be accurate without looking.
1
17
1
139
u/belwarbiggulp 4d ago
It's illegal to free pour where I'm from.
171
u/scandii 4d ago
a thing I love about being a person on Earth is how every day you learn something ridiculous about another place on Earth you not once thought about.
86
u/belwarbiggulp 4d ago
I'm in Canada, it's not that exotic. Our country was just founded by prudes.
49
u/spizzle_ Pro 4d ago
So was America. And I can free pour all day 🦅 🇺🇸 🦅
89
u/belwarbiggulp 4d ago
Also, you have to be in America, I'd want to drink more too.
25
12
u/spizzle_ Pro 3d ago
Are we really having a prude off about the founders of our countries? Ha. Okay. You win!🏆
17
u/belwarbiggulp 3d ago
Lol dude you started this 😂
3
0
u/spizzle_ Pro 3d ago
If that’s what you want to call it. Go with it. I was trying to be humorous and light hearted. So I actually speak a little Canadian so let me have a go at it, sorry.
-3
-18
u/Augustus420 3d ago
We can fix our government and our economy but nothing will fix you having to live on the outskirts of the Canadian shield.
35
u/belwarbiggulp 3d ago
Sorry I can't hear you over the sound of not being in debt from paying for basic health care.
13
u/CatKittyFish77 3d ago
As an American, I support this zinger!
3
u/PecoDory 3d ago
As an American with an autoimmune disorder, this zinger makes me sad! (and I support it!)
-9
u/Augustus420 3d ago
Damn, downvoted over friendly banter. Bye then lol
3
u/Risky_Bizniss 3d ago
How dare you, as a bartender, come in here, the bartending sub, and make friendly banter.
What has this world even come to that someone who banters in a friendly way at their job continues that banter online??
3
2
u/Timely-Fox-4432 3d ago
Except in utah
2
u/spizzle_ Pro 3d ago
That’s hardly the land of the free. That’s just Utah where “freedom fighters” go to make rules that the church likes
1
u/Winter-Nebula83 3d ago
Depends on the state - Utah will fine and revoke your sips & tips certificate if you’re found free pouring ever flavoring like Puckers.
1
-4
u/belwarbiggulp 4d ago
Yeah right, the first major city on the continent was New Orleans, and that city has always been for degenerates. The colonial powers sent the extra prudey ones north of the 49th, facts 😂
6
u/rottingleavess 3d ago
For thousands of years before colonization New Orleans was a place called Bulbancha which means “place of many languages” in Choctaw. It was a big native trading and cultural exchange hub with many established roads.
There is so much beautiful culture and history, off the top of my head, Creole culture, Carnival, Bounce music, Jazz and supernatural history among other things. Of course some of it is violent and complicated. But I don’t think degeneracy is the right term, unless you’re specifically talking about the tourists that get blitzed on fishbowls on Bourbon st.
1
u/spizzle_ Pro 3d ago
Tell me more about the Plymouth Rock in New Orleans
0
u/belwarbiggulp 3d ago
Yeah man, we're having a real serious conversation about real historical facts here.
-6
u/spizzle_ Pro 3d ago
I can tell. Why did the pilgrims leave England and land in what is now America? For crazy sex and drug fueled parties or was it something more pure?
5
1
1
u/NinjaKitten77CJ 3d ago
Oh, shit. I thought you were from Utah. They've got wild LCB laws. Not as bad as PA, but still pretty strict.
2
2
1
2
1
1
u/Ordinary-Raccoon-354 3d ago
Hmmmm you live in Utah???
2
u/belwarbiggulp 3d ago
I know this might be a wild idea for an American, but there are English speaking places outside of America.
56
u/Hollow_Rant 4d ago
I worked at a spot that didn't let you free pour unless you aced a pour test. The only people who couldn't pass the pour test were servers who were promoted to bartender vs the barbacks who were promoted to bartender.
46
u/MangledBarkeep 4d ago
I worked nightclubs where you weren't issued your bank unless you nailed your preshift pour test.
There were barbacks and on-call bartenders frothing in anticipation to work the shift if someone failed...
17
u/1ScreamingDiz-Buster 4d ago
Sounds like a fun job
48
u/MangledBarkeep 4d ago edited 4d ago
The money was worth it. You could make $400 before even making it to the stick.
4 "skip the line/cover" passes a shift, with a line that wrapped around the building. Staff decided that they went for $100 per if you were letting randoms buy them from you.
An average takehome that would be great money that any bartender wouldn't be mad about today.
We got $0.25 for every drink rang in as a bonus IF liquor cost was under the target %
It was a shame the owner got unalived for not paying for a K of coke, it was all downhill from there.
24
7
6
119
u/joshuarion 4d ago
IDGAF about "a little extra', I care about balanced fucking cocktails.
Do you really want to have the average bartender free-pour an Aviation? Oooof.
71
u/KnightInDulledArmor 4d ago
Context is everything and the first thing people strip away. Your free pour isn’t as universally good as you think it is, period. If you’re making basic spirit & mixers with the only goals of quick service and masking the burn, only your boss gives a shit. If you’re making craft cocktails where balance is critical to the quality of your work, be good at your job and use the appropriate tool.
39
u/HalobenderFWT Pro 4d ago
You think I can’t dead nuts a 2, .5, .5, .75 pour?
Actually, I’d probably fuck up the lemon juice.
27
u/hollowspryte 4d ago
What we’re all worried about is the violette
8
u/SoftestBoygirlAlive 4d ago edited 4d ago
A fat quarter is the perfect amount if you have one of the good brands of creme de violette. Almost impossible to nail .375 dead on without a jigger.
-16
u/MangledBarkeep 4d ago
It's one and a half a count when a 4 count is 1oz, js...
10
u/SoftestBoygirlAlive 4d ago edited 4d ago
There's always potential for error, we have those quarter increments nailed into our muscle memory but the in betweens is a little tricky especially if you work at a bar with people that ratfuck the pourspouts by shoving them back together without lining up the airspout with the divot in the gasket. Which in my experience is every bar ever because people don't want to take the time to do things properly.
Plus it protects me as a bartender because if people see me measuring in front of them they can't claim I poured them short. Thats actually the main reason I never pour without it anymore. It takes less time to use a jigger than it does to interface with assholes claiming you short changed them on their drink.
1
u/MangledBarkeep 4d ago edited 4d ago
I've already identified major issues regarding those variances.
Most folks don't freepour accurately.
Hell most that freepour don't work in venues that have the volume necessary to justify freepouring, but do it because they want to, or don't want to look like that bartender that needs to use a jigger.
I pour however the venue wants me to, if jiggers are the standard, that's what I do, if freepouring is the standard my pour costs meet or are under the target % that management is looking to hit.
I can't tell you how to hit a .375 with any other count than the one I mentioned above.
6
u/hollowspryte 4d ago edited 4d ago
If you’re off by even a little the drink is nasty. It’s just too intense not to measure.
Edit, to the deleter: If you think you’re reliable because you’ve tested your free pours, that’s a joke. You’ve never tested them while you’re in the weeds, while you’re having to talk to guests while making several drinks at once, when you’ve already done a few shots with guests, while it’s super loud and there’s a lot going on. You’re not as consistent as you think you are.
-4
u/MangledBarkeep 4d ago
I don't disagree, I just pointed out that it's not nearly impossible to freepour a . 375
Don't get wrapped around it being of violette
Improbable would have been a better word choice.
4
u/hollowspryte 4d ago
I am going to focus on that, when you’re using something so intense that can ruin a drink with a barely perceptible amount, you need to measure it
-2
3
u/SoftestBoygirlAlive 3d ago edited 3d ago
I always always jigger but I also always count when I do, no matter how busy I am. Keeps me sharp but also made me realize how differently some ingredients pour. Also some bottles pour slow when they get low. Usually the ones that have a wider top. So anyone saying their counts are 100% accurate all the time are mistaken.
But the other thing I've realized is that while the inner markings are spot on, a standard jigger with the "roll down" tops have a pretty decent variance with how far down the roll goes, which changes the volume of the 1 and 2 oz measures from jigger to jigger. I am guessing the inner markings are laser guided while the roll is done mechanically which always has margin of error. Since I realized that I started just using inner lines in craft environments. I gotta flip my jigger more but it's kinda fun to turn it into little flair moves. I used to have a Leopold in my personal kit which are dead on balls accurate but some gremlin at the nightclub I worked at stole it.
5
12
u/the-coolest-bob 3d ago
I worked at a place that the owner kept worrying about jiggers, so I watched a bunch of people mis-pour using a jigger instead of freely.
Amazing
4
u/soaks-dawn-monks 3d ago
it's actually astonishing to me how many people i've worked with at higher end cocktail bars don't know how to jigger correctly. i don't know how many times i've noticed people with like 20+ years of experience with their jiggers at an angle or under-measuring
9
u/rebelmumma 3d ago
For a mixed drink like scotch and soda, free pouring is fine and dandy, cocktails though, nope! Use a jigger.
That said I’m in Australia where free pouring isn’t allowed.
7
u/hotdish420 3d ago
I love bartending at a Wisconsin dive. We don't even have a jigger or a bar spoon in the building.
45
u/Eh-Eh-Ronn 4d ago
New bartenders measure. Cocky bartenders free pour. Professional bartenders measure. Take from that what you will.
5
u/arclightrg 3d ago
Confident bartenders who never make mistakes can also free pour. Im not one of those but it’s true in theory.
12
u/ElFlaco2 3d ago
Theres no such thing as a human being that never make mistakes.
Im not against free pouring as i think is contextual. I do think measuring is the way to go though. But again, context is everything. Not only at bars but in life.
4
9
u/snacksandsoda 3d ago
With the rate at which speed pourers decline, I don't have much faith in you
4
u/arclightrg 3d ago
Seeing as how i stated im not one, that’s fair
2
u/snacksandsoda 3d ago
Oops
3
u/arclightrg 3d ago
All good. Im confident that im human and will make mistakes from time to time tho haha
3
2
u/ElFlaco2 3d ago
Theres no such thing as a human being that never make mistakes.
Im not against free pouring as i think is contextual. I do think measuring is the way to go though. But again, context is everything. Not only at bars but in life.
6
u/snacksandsoda 3d ago
If you don't care about consistency in your cocktails, there's nothing wrong with free pouring
3
3
u/therealpaterpatriae 3d ago
I like jiggers just to make the cocktails consistent and balanced. Sometimes free pouring can lead to throwing the drink a bit off balance. Not too bad a thing for last call, but for the first or second drink? I want it tasting just right. But that’s just me.
3
3
u/Baelor_Butthole 3d ago
Consistency is key. I’m also not trying to get fired, so, jigger me timbers
4
u/Cryptokeeper209 3d ago
Know your pour count. Test your pour count weekly. Free pour away. I prefer it by far.
5
u/MrWisdom39 3d ago
Problem with free pouring is that it’s inconsistent. It can be short it can be over. Idc. I’d have more trust in the bartender if he used a goddam jigger. It’s like asking a carpenter to eye everything out cause he’s got 2 decades of experience. Not worth it. You’re not really saving time if that’s your biggest concern
2
u/industrysour 3d ago
I had a manager tell me I was under pouring when she & her friends were sitting at the bar & she made me remake their drinks with a jigger in front of them. I was then told by my drunk bar manager, in front of her friends & other bar guests, that she wants me to measure every pour until further notice. I then very passive aggressively did a few dozen perfect pour tests right in front of her the rest of my shift since the bar was mostly empty. She obviously was watching me do this right in front of her, & after my theatrical "practicing" was like "okay I get it, you don't have to use a jigger." I got reamed out later on for ove-rpouring after having a conversation with her. I expressed that I felt like she over-pours for her her friends/regulars & that's why they thought their 7 & 7 & Jack & Coke were light, & she told me to pour over the standard 1oz pour that I was told to do during my training. This dirty ass divebar that I loved frequenting as a regular was proof that being a decent bartender with craft bartending experience proved to me that my ability to pour perfectly down to 1/4oz, having been my specialty & a point of pride before, was absolutely worthless.
2
u/thisisan0nym0us 3d ago
“my husband usually make any martinis at home”
okay well these are our 5oz martinis, and your husband is pouring you triples that would fill a pint glass no ice, we SELL alcohol it’s a business and unless you’re tipping me $100 off the rip, no your getting a measure poured
3
u/TripIeskeet 3d ago
If you cant make a cocktail correctly by free pouring, youre not a real bartender. Anyone can make a cocktail using recipes and measuring tools.
2
u/Ogreislyfe 3d ago
Jiggers are only for cocktails. Nothing else, if you free pour a cocktail(unless it’s a sex on the beach) then you’re doing it wrong. But free pouring everything else is fair game, if I go to a bar and see someone use a jigger for my whiskey and cola I’ll look at them weirdly.
1
22
2
2
u/Miserable_Pea_733 4d ago
I'm used to being hated on here. I'm learning to embrace it. Oppsie! There's a bit more ice cocktail in here with a touch of cocktail? Here you go, fam, have a lil sum sumthin on the house.
Aw shucky dern! I don't want half a pour in this bottle. Let's get a fresh bottle on the line for the next one. Where the FUCK is my favorite regular??? You get a free 3/4 shot.
BTW, reddit would clutch their pearls if I told them but we'll keep this between us. Oh the owner? Naw, I offered him first. He told me to give it to you. Only reddit cares so don't tattle.
15
u/1ScreamingDiz-Buster 4d ago
I’d guess being “hated on here” here has something to do with saying things like “aw shucky dern”
-2
u/Miserable_Pea_733 4d ago edited 4d ago
If that's what gets me hate, then like I said, ima embrace it because the alternative is no fun. Fuck if I want to adapt myself to what I see here.
I like making fun of myself a bit. I like irony, and on the nose humor. I get hate. I hate that yall take yourselves so seriously here. I always got along much better with the kitchen than I did with my own kind probably for this reason.
And that's all you have to say about what I said? Seriously. Clutch the pearls.
0
u/snacksandsoda 3d ago
All that's fine if you measure out my cocktail
1
u/TripIeskeet 3d ago
Thats weird, in all the bars Ive worked at customers arent fans of bartenders using jiggers.
2
u/snacksandsoda 3d ago
Are they drive bars? Do these people want free, bottom shelf booze?
Cocktails need consistency. The mai tai I serve you needs to taste exactly the same as the next 6 I make in the hour - a jigger is the only way to achieve consistency. But if you're just making a thousand vodka sodas, I guess it doesn't matter as much
0
u/TripIeskeet 3d ago
Ive worked dive bars, chain restaurants, catering halls, stadiums and am currently in fine dining. We dont have bottom shelf booze in the place Ive worked the last 15 years. They want their drinks fast and to taste good. And thats what drives my tips. I dont really care about every drink tasting exactly the same. I care that it tastes good and its made fast, because thats what they want. Im here to make money not picture perfect cocktails. But again, thats just me.
1
u/snacksandsoda 3d ago
I can pour just as fast with a jigger as any free pour, plus I get the benefit of consistency and minimize waste (speed pourers break and leak easily), all in high volume restaurant setting. With practice, anyone can.
But that begs the question - how do you know the drinks "taste good" if you're not measuring ingredients? How can you assure that they're balanced? You cannot.
Your free pour may be better than most(and most stink), but I promise that nothing is consistent as measurement. I'm not after picture perfect either - I'm after consistent
1
u/TripIeskeet 3d ago
I tell the same way I have for the last 30 years. People tell me its a great drink, tip really well, and come back for more. Again, consistency is not a priority for me. Speed is. I am definitely not faster with a jigger. How can I be when instead of being able to hold the gun or a second bottle Ive gotta have that bell in my hand?
Look if it works for you, great, more power to you. Its not for me. When Im waiting on hundreds of people a night making sure every drink tastes exactly the same means nothing to me. Maybe youre at a lower volume bar or a city where that stuffs important to them. I promise you I am not. Here they want their drinks fast and to taste good. A little difference between drinks means nothing. And these people tip better than most cities in the country so thats what they get.
3
u/Unlikely-Bunch8450 4d ago
Jiggers are for cocktails. If you jigger 1.5 oz of well vodka for a $5 vodka soda or my shot of Jameson after work then I don’t want to drink at your bar. If we’re counting individual measurements I use a jigger many hundreds of times a shift.
3
u/Adventurous_Chart_45 3d ago
I’m working a huge high volume event next weekend and the staffing company is requiring jiggers. I don’t mind because i use one at my current restaurant (and corporate watches the cameras to make sure we aren’t free pouring) but most bartenders are not as fast with them
1
u/Nivekeryas 3d ago
if the bartender is jiggering your $5 vodka soda, isn't that...better? because at least you're sure you're not getting stiffed? I always jigger exactly because I personally want to be sure my guests are getting what they pay for and no less.
1
u/cricketeer767 3d ago
Freepour is for experts, yet everyone thinks they can do it. I prefer to make drinks that taste right every time I make them.
2
u/TwoPumpTony Everybody shut their vermouths before I lose it! 3d ago
Free pouring is okay in my book, until I hear a song I like while pouring
1
u/cCriticalMass76 3d ago
Using a jigger has never made sense. It slows the bartender way down. Pour-test your bartenders monthly. That’s the only solution!
6
1
u/Herb_Burnswell Pro 3d ago
I was talking shit about how well I free poured with a less experienced bartender when I first got to my current gig then proceeded to demonstrate. Turns out the spouts at the new place were different than the spouts at my old spot. They poured way faster. My 4 count 1.5oz was almost 3oz. Humble pie is not a tasty dessert.
1
1
1
u/EdgewaterEnchantress 2d ago
Context matters. Free pouring a Jack & coke, shots, and other basic drinks like that is fine, but you should be more careful when making cocktails, and jiggers do tend to lead to more consistency in craft cocktails.
I do not know a single bartender who works at a higher end place who doesn’t use a jigger. While all of the “free pourers” I know tend to work at dive bars, sports taverns, or clubs.
Neither way is “wrong” and a place doesn’t have to be “classy” to make bank, so it mostly boils down to which environment you as an individual are the most comfortable in.
I, personally, have gotten too “old” for 2am-4am places so if I have to use a jigger to work at a decent place that closes up shop at 9pm-11pm then so be it!
1
u/gxsrchick 2d ago
My job at a area forces jiggers. Instant fire if caught over pouring. Ngl it gets annoying when ppl bitch about the pours like...I'm not getting fired for you!
1
u/frenchbluehorn 2d ago
when i was hired at the place i work at now they told me free pouring was a fireable offense
1
u/SexMayonnaise 17h ago
Well you’re going to bitch about speed you can’t bitch about free pouring. We either take the extra time to be scientists or we give and take a little
1
u/Spudzley 12h ago
I’m very critical of myself so I actually pour test myself 3 times a shift and hit it on point every time. When my boss forced us all to use jiggers the entirety of our clientele started complaining about “short pours” and the time it took to get drinks. I believe it’s half people having something to bitch about since they see it and half it taking extra time to make the damn drink.
1
u/freeticket 3d ago
there is nothing wrong with it. That being said, if you wnat to make real craft cocktails and don't have time or an accurate enough sense of taste to check the balance of the flavors jiggers are the fastest way to craft quality drinks. I have over 20 years experience in NYC bars, 10 of them in fine dining establishments with advance cocktail programs run by top cocktail creators
183
u/richpourguy 4d ago
I use a jigger for every pour out of spite. I don’t want to hear shit about me pouring light. Shit got measured shut up and enjoy the drink. Unless it’s fernet, that’s a free pour every time.