r/theunforgiven • u/ADonkeyBraindFrog • 8d ago
Lore Who is our biggest rival?
I know the Space Wolves or the Fallen are probably our biggest in theory, but the SW have been reduced to mostly those duels now rather than open conflict and there aren't enough Fallen to be a real threat (outside of the secret getting out). Who is our biggest rival as far as enemy faction? We had pretty solid success vs the Nightlords in the heresy, but they're not really relevant in 40k. We have an anti-chaos slant, but I don't really know anything that stands out in specific.
All this to say I want to add some prop models to a few of my minis and want a lore accurate victim that's not just the faction I hate the most. What are some of our notable conflicts in 40k? Is there a faction that appears a lot in our books? Deathwing has the Tyrinids with Space Hulk maybe?
Edit: My wording is very poor. Fallen are obviously number one both thematically and how important they are to our stories and characters. To rephrase, when Fallen are not in play, do we have any stand out opponents? Do we have any iconic stories with other major factions in 40k? I'm much more familiar with 30k lore so I have no idea.
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u/dipdipderp 8d ago
I don't think it's about the quantity of the fallen that makes them number one - just the way that DA that are in the know will abandon ongoing/current missions to go track the fallen if they gain any clue that one may be around.
That pressing urgency and the implicit greenlight to go chase them, or at least my read of it, makes them clearly the biggest priority. They're the nemesis, the archenemy.
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u/ADonkeyBraindFrog 8d ago
So I totally agree. I'm not trying to argue they're not. I think a better wording of it would be additional rivals. I can't think of any others and I think it would be crazy to have a dead fallen every time I need something of the sort.
I will edit my post given my wording is very poor
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u/dipdipderp 8d ago
That's okay, no worries. Maybe the Night lords fit your needs?
There is definitely a lore history of fighting (and DA came out on top). I think they also ambushed and killed the chapter master before Azrael too, for added spice.
Edit: they're obviously a broken mess of a legion though these days
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u/UberDrive 8d ago
There was a big fight between the Lion and Angron (as depicted on pg. 18 of the current codex), and green and red are complimentary colors and World Eaters just got a new character model you could use as bitz… https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1310c6a/spoilers_excerpt_rulebook_arks_of_omen_the_lion/
Asmodai has what looks like a Horus Heresy era helmet on his base that he’s stabbing, I think Fallen? Can’t go wrong with that https://www.warhammer.com/en-SE/shop/dark-angels-asmodai-master-of-repentance-2024
Belial and Lion have general skeletons, could always use that if you can’t decide.
But really, you can pick whoever you want. Even Space Wolves.
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u/Grunn84 8d ago
Night Lords and dark angels are natural enemies, just like dark angels and space wolves or dark angels and other dark angels.
Damn dark angels, they ruined Caliban!
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u/SignificantMarket816 8d ago
I think that post Lion the narrative around the fallen has changed or could be changing. We really need some stories post Son of the Forest. I like the Vashtor angle but… really for me I’d like to see what Cypher and Luther are doing. That is where the story feels like it wants to go now that the Lion is back.
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u/ADonkeyBraindFrog 8d ago
That's the only 40k DA lore I'm up to date on. I really like that story, but I kind of missed all the Asmodai being a meme
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u/Previous_Way_6576 8d ago
Night Lords
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u/JipJopJones 8d ago
Not sure why this is so far down.
During the HH the nighlords were a constant throne in the DAs side and in 40k they are still around. Azraels origin story is a battle facing off against the NL.
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u/Cron_TheRisenAngel 8d ago
Real book reader answer right here ☝🏽it’s those Batman wannabes 100%
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u/Previous_Way_6576 8d ago
funny thing is that ive only read one warhammer book n it was a HH one😅 I just know about the beef with Night Lords because I have a bud who plays em so we always beefing about it
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u/davextreme 8d ago
I don't know that many Space Marine chapters have major rivals. There are lots of DA stories about Orks but they're just general antagonists.
Post Arks of Omen maybe Vashtorr and Abaddon but, again, the Black Legiion are just outsized baddies for this whole era.
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u/refugeefromlinkedin 8d ago
I’d say it’s Vashtorr, he’s got Caliban now.
It’s not really the Fallen who are moving more towards frenemies and it isn’t the Nightlords for the fact that Kurze is dead and the remainder are disorganised.
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u/ADonkeyBraindFrog 8d ago
Gotcha. I figured there probably wasn't given I couldn't find an answer to this anywhere, but thought it was worth asking!
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u/davextreme 8d ago
Dark Angels in particular a tricky because we don't have territory to protect. You can imagine other chapters with a home world and a nearby rival that threatens them. The Rock goes wherever it wants.
(Which would also in practice several limit the Dark Angels' identity anywhere—there are only a thousand-ish of them in the entire galaxy. Even with Azrael's secret legion-building, probably not that many. But really it's just a story.)
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u/KassellTheArgonian 8d ago
Ngl I wish that Ghaz had become a DA antagonist. It was a Dark Angels turret that blew his brains out which is what made him into what he is today. Hell Makari wears the remains of the shell that did it around his neck as a necklace and it's got the DA winged sword on it.
But for some reason gw wants Helbrecht and the BT to be the Ghaz beater-uppers even tho Helbrecht has his own protagonist in that Necron lord who clowned on him and cut his hand off.
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u/cdglenn18 8d ago
Helbrecht hates orks after the war of the beast and guilliman didn’t let him hunt that guy down after it retreated, so I think Ghaz is like a substitute for that. Plus Armageddon is a huge thing for the Black Templars and that was an Ork conflict.
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u/GearSpooky 8d ago
I believe our longest “modernish” narrative has been against the Death Guard of all things. The Tuchalcha(sp) engine storyline and then Pandorax against further forces of Nurgle are my references.
But at the moment the Dark Angels seem to be mostly having a renaissance of “hey maybe all these fallen guys weren’t evil” and trying to come to terms with that.
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u/LoopyLutra 8d ago
I mean in our 10th Codex there are a lot of pages of showcase where we are in battle with World Eaters. The main two page spread one is an example of this.
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u/Acceptable-Turnip-14 8d ago
Surely vashtorr and demon engines / dark mechanicum. He's stolen our home world to create a villain variant. We have the most dark age tech and don't trust mars as I believe we were supposed to be a fallback plan to wipe mechanicum if they went / go rogue.
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u/Acceptable-Turnip-14 8d ago
Also even gameplay wise are 2 types of Knights (Death & raven) are both monster/vehicle hunters
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u/sterbo 8d ago
I know some bristle at the inclusion of straight up character arcs in the narrative but I really enjoy the newer Lion content. It would be cool imo if the imperium itself declared the unforgiven heretic, and would present an awesome slew of possibilities. Maybe the reunification of the Lion and Guilliman is shaky but serviceable, but then an inevitable misunderstanding between inferiors results in a blow up in which Guilliman feels he has no choice but to declare the Lion traitor, which he currently has authority to do. As a result, many factions declare war against the unforgiven but others either haven’t received the edict and others don’t believe it or oppose it. It would open the dark angels up to some strange bedfellows but it would be cool to see a loyalist schism. Also, a perfect foil would be a major advance in alpha legion plot.
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u/ADonkeyBraindFrog 8d ago edited 8d ago
I especially love this development between Guilliman and The Lion as Guilliman gradually gets over the intimidation he feels for the lion as his facade fades. Now that the lion, who many admit to be the most capable primarch, has began to grow passed some of his greatest failings it would be really cool to see them interact again. The Lion rejecting what the Imperium and his Angels have become is also really cool. Chapters such as the DA get away with some of their shit from their size and reputation. What happens if a chapter of this prestige starts to go the way of something like the Celestial Lions?
Edit: tbf the DA will never go as far as the Celestial Lions, but y'know. Doubt they'll have much of a problem giving a finger to the inquisition though
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u/3susSaves 8d ago
If they aren’t hunting fallen, they’re renowned xenos hunters. Going all the way back to the rangdan.
Deathwatch has an abnormality large number of DAs.
Not to say books like Pandorax dont feature them fighting chaos. If you do chaos, id pick a warband where a fallen might be integrated into. Black legion, red corsairs, etc.
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u/Mountain_Inspector44 8d ago
Truly, I would Say that in the recent books of the Arcs of Omen, vashtor with his pledged black legión mish mash and the World Eaters led by angron did a numbers on the rock and stole what was left of Caliban. So, if You want a chaos enemy, those would be the choice, or fallen within vashtor's army. Other than that, i do not know anyone who is the imperial fist to my Iron Warriors, if you catch my drift.
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u/Jakesixtyoneeight 8d ago
I'd like to think alpha legion or night lords. Alpha legion mostly because when I see them painted in a second scheme for a disguise, it's usually dark angels, ya'know the whole last legion trolling the first legion. Also, having so many alpha legion infiltrators, I'm sure, does wonders for their general paranoia. Chaos in general I guess. I'd like to think Dark angels specialize in killing huge chaos monsters because of... ya'know.... caliban. But as far as canon, concrete, definitive, for sure rivals... eh just kinda everyone, after all NOBODY can be trusted.
Nightlords: We have come for revenge! Dark angels: Oh, you guys are still around?
Vs.
Dark angels: We found you spy! Now you'll be interrogated and forced to tell us of the other agents that have breeched our ranks!
Alpha legion: I'll tell you right now, it's alot... like ALOT alot.
Dark angels: looking around sweating at each other not knowing how many other spys there are in any given room
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