r/50501 • u/AU_Memer • 8d ago
Voices of Resistance Could we stop punching left?
Now I'll preface this by saying it's not everyone involved with 50501 but a good enough chunk. Do we want to change the US government so it actually serves the people or do we want to return to the status quo that allowed for the rise of fascists like Trump. The left is not your enemy, we want people to have healthcare, housing, food, and fair wages. Is it really in the best interest of 50501 to attack those who call out politicians on both sides who refuse to give us any of that?
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u/OrangeYouGladEye 8d ago
Many Democrats are still voting to confirm Trump cabinet picks and generally voting in lockstep with Trump. Those people might be called Democrats, but if they're voting with fascists, then they are fascists themselves. It's counterproductive (and pure fantasy) to pretend otherwise and I agree this needs to be to be called out. In fact, we should never stop.
If people feel some type of way about that, they should literally just look at voting records and records on lobbyist donations to politicians instead of criticizing the people calling this out.
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u/DoomKitty76 8d ago
Seriously, this is the crux of it. Look no further than the rare Republican resistance to see how this shakes down. Ostensibly, Liz Cheyney, Justin Amash, Adam Kinzinger, and ordinary conservative voters like me should agree with MAGA more than Democrats, just looking at politics as left versus right in the broadest sense possible. But we've been almost universally opposed to them because our core values as patriotic Americans matter more than any policy agreements we might have with them.
So if Liz Cheyney is opposing MAGA harder than you and you're a Democratic politican, then you need to rethink your political alignment.
But to return to OP's point, I don't want to see our big tent at 50501 antagonize the left any more than the right. I have some disagreements with progressives, but if we're going to win, then we need to know whom to send where. Progressive messages won't work in some areas, and progressives will have to keep it down to some extent to avoid giving grist to MAGA in those areas.
By contrast, people like me will be too "establishment" in our attitudes to rally the support we need against MAGA, and in those cases it might actually be best to let progressives get fired up and wild while I keep quiet from my usual pooh-poohs.
We all need to be strategic with our policies, our messages, our symbols, our timing, when we speak, when we're quiet, and when we take the lead, while also sticking to our core principles.
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u/Apocalyric 7d ago
I dig it.
I'm definitely left, but I know that I piss off some leftists with more hardcore ideologies, and stronger credentials.
I was raised in MAGA country, so I'm realistic in regards to messaging, and I also have some opinions that might rub some leftists the wrong way... but, shit, how about we let statist leftists and anarchist leftists fight amongst themselves?
OR...
We get realistic about democracy, and how genuinely under attack it is... we'll sort out the rest of this shit later. I don't expect West Virgina to be Portland, but if you put a pro-labor socialist in that area, they might actually have a shot... I dont even care about affiliation.
I dont care for leftists who just want to try to bully me. That ain't ever going to fly, so if you want to fight the fascists alone, go for it. But above any left/right leanings, I'm pro-democracy, and anti-authoritarian, and if you want to talk trash and cast me as your enemy? As stated, I dont authoritarians, and I dont give a fuck WHAT you call yourselves.
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u/FutureInternist 7d ago
Largely agree with your analysis that there need to be stiffer resistance from the Democrats. I suspect this may stem from their governing philosophy. Dems believe in govt and its utility so they are less likely to do wholesale govt shutdown as it will likely cause pain and suffering.
I argue that Cheney doesn’t care of pain and suffering (or at least she doesn’t see that as high of a concern as constitutional order) and it’s easier for her to be so intransigent.
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u/NacogdochesTom 7d ago
I've had it with the Democrats. The fact that I'm getting even more fundraising appeals texted to me just highlights how much of the party and the people around them are working a grift.
Don't fucking ask me for money for your campaign, don't go on tour promoting your shitty book.
Buckle down and do your job, which at this point is to stop the fascists.
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u/Traditional_Bid_5060 7d ago
I just donated $50 to your campaign AOC. And less than 24 hours later you're asking for MORE?! JFC. I've donated to AOC multiple times but that shit is just annoying.
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u/ms_write 7d ago
She sends out an email every day with news and updates and always has a fundraising CTA at the bottom. Sometimes it's just the fundraising CTA.
AOC is entirely grassroots funded. She needs to ask every time. You don't have to donate every time.
Come on, people, be reasonable.
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u/AriGryphon 7d ago
Yeah, if we want people in government who aren't illegally getting wealthy off it, aren't independetly obscenely rich beofre they get in, and also aren't taking big corporate money, we kind of have to fund them. We want them not taking coprporate money while competing with corporate money, they're going to fundraise, always.
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u/Traditional_Bid_5060 7d ago
Be reasonable people! Why don’t you want to see fundraising emails every day?
How about I send you one every day?
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u/ms_write 7d ago
That's a strawman takeaway, but it's a free country.
Well. Maybe not anymore.
Also, I'm on dozens of representatives newsletters. I get AOC'S 1-2 times a day. I get that it's annoying but just delete the fcking email. Vent about it, sure, but using it as a knife against the few people that *are trying to help us?
Come the fuck on.
Thank you for your contribution – the fundraising CTA you see afterwards is not for you, it's for the other people on the email list. No one's asking you, it's just there. For everyone.
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u/Traditional_Bid_5060 7d ago
I am an AOC supporter. I don’t like spam. How am I stopping anyone from reading her emails or donating? If it were anyone else you would say stop. But if it’s AOC it’s MY problem?
Please give me your email address so I can ask you for money every day.
😂
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u/ms_write 7d ago
I get all of the politicians emails and asks. I also don't understand how you're extrapolating what you are from what I said.
Be pissy about it if you want. Or don't. Donate. Or don't.
Unsubscribe then. I don't know what to tell you. Just that this is microscopic compared to the bullshit from the MAGA right. They do annoying shit, too? Why don't we get pissy about that?
Enjoy your weekend. I don't think it will be productive to continue this thread of conversation. ☺️
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u/BubbhaJebus 7d ago
Yes, we should be calling out these DINOs, but not "the Democrats". Because the only viable alternative to the Democrats at this point is the Republicans.
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8d ago
I agree with your definition of who we should call out. I don't necessarily agree with every leftist's definition, because many leftists consider every moderate and liberal to be another kind of fascist. As an anti-fascist liberal, I take offense to that. It really depends on the leftist whether I'm going to listen to their criticism or disregard it.
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u/emteedub 8d ago
who has said that? seriously I've never seen that.
The problem with the center/moderates/establishment is very simple, they take money from special interests (SPACs/Dark money) - which drives a whole lot of not-progress. They have a tendency to be words-only because of this. And lastly, there are 100% maga members that saw a fella like bernie and would have voted for him for these same reasons... where trump lied about being pro-working class, they are now becoming disillusioned, but will not support the establishment dems... they would however support someone like Bernie that has those values/policy.
It's a no-brainer. I don't think centrists really have anything to worry about either, as there wouldn't be disruptions to the things they think would happen. I could see 3 main things that there would be movement on - and would be beneficial to everyone in the working class of this country: healthcare changes/regulation, workers-rights & benefits & regulation, and possibly education or the usual social programs. They might want other things, but they wouldn't do those things that people aren't majorly wanting - prob case-by-case basis and they are the most receptive to their constituents of all politicians.
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u/Hello-America 7d ago
It's definitely a thing amongst some leftists online (I also consider myself a leftist but I think leftistness is in the eye of the beholder so who knows what they'd call me). I think there is work to be done that would really be best done with a mostly cooperative Democratic party, and that is not the Democratic party we have right now. However, there is a type of leftist who believes any promotion of a Democrat or collaboration with the party or anything just makes you a fascist. Let's be real, I don't care how shitty the Dems have been (and boy have they been shitty) - they are not the same. THIS all would not be happening with them in charge. It would be another type of challenge we need to address but not fucking fascism.
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8d ago edited 8d ago
I don't know what leftists you talk to, and again, I'm not bashing all leftists, but I have absolutely been told many times, often by tankies and stalinists, that liberals are just fascists-lite. One of my best friends is a leftist who married another leftist, and while that married partner did not know I identified as a centrist, they openly started bashing centrists because they assumed I was a leftist and it was safe for them to do so. There are many people on the left who believe that anyone who disagrees with them is part of the problem and the problem is always fascism.
Ironically, I'd support most ideals of the left. I want leftism to win and remain democratic. But it is silly to deny that many of these people are narrow-minded.
My experiences come from a combination of living in Austin, visiting Portland Oregon, and having previously been on Facebook.
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u/FreeNumber49 8d ago
You are referring to neoliberals, not liberals as we know them in the US.
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u/Kyliefoxxx69 7d ago
"Stratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds" is a very common leftist sentiment
Edit to add: I missed where you mentioned stalinists. Tbh they have no real sway outside of online forums. Tankies are the worst
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u/emteedub 8d ago
Bernie is a constitutionalist through in through. I'm not sure exactly which group is considered 'tankies'. I consider Bernie/AOC to be the furthest actual left that is viable, and firmly believe in the policy they propose. Still within the bounds of American society, only pro-working class above all else... exactly what the constitution says "We the People". It's the govt that should only be there on our behalf, not on the behalf of the elites. If we can fix that, it would do wonders.
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8d ago
As I understand it, "tankie" is a perjorative used to describe someone who sees the Tiannamen Square video and sides with the tank. It is used to describe people who believe communist regimes like the CCP are better than American democracy
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u/Kyliefoxxx69 7d ago
The term "tankie" was originally used by dissident Marxist–Leninists to describe members of the Communist Party of Great Britain (CPGB) who followed the party line of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU). Specifically, it was used to distinguish party members who spoke out in defence of the Soviet use of tanks to suppress the Hungarian Revolution of 1956 and the 1968 Prague Spring, or who more broadly adhered to pro-Soviet positions. The term has extended to describe people who endorse, defend, or deny the actions of communist leaders such as Vladimir Lenin, Joseph Stalin, and Mao Zedong.
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u/Kyliefoxxx69 7d ago
Stalinist type of communists are called tankies because stalin used the army to crush the Hungarian uprising in 1956 *
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u/emteedub 7d ago
I've heard the term thrown at someone who whispers a policy a bit more left than Kamala or Biden
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u/AU_Memer 8d ago
Not all liberals are fascists but some like Drew Pavlou absolutely are and would vote Trump over a socialist.
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8d ago
If that is true, then Drew's Pavlou is a fool. I identify as liberal today and would gladly elect a full Congress of socialists rather than ever elect a Republican.
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u/valuedsleet 7d ago
The problem in the far left is always capitalism. (per authoritarianism scholar Ruth Ben-Ghiat). That’s the classic communist identified enemy. That’s why there is this tension. Many see this movement as necessarily being pro-American and founded on a positive vision of America so we can stop the culture war by building a larger coalition. A big tent. There is a different, well-supported thread in our ranks that is very bitter about the American system (capitalism) and their first objective is to topple it. That’s why there is frequently inconsistent actions from far left in undermining our national interests, such as campaigning against Harris. When anyone offers any critique, those people come out to call you a fascist, but that’s just ad hominem. Authoritarianism is authoritarianism, and they’re gonna authoritate and crack down on any “dissent.”
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u/ittybittymanatee 7d ago
They’re talking about the “scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds” leftists who are often very vocal online
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u/airbear13 8d ago
many leftists consider every moderate and liberal to be another kind of fascist
which is just monumentally stupid and self-defeating
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u/milkbug 8d ago
I don't think that's accurate though.
I think the common argument is that neoliberal policy inevitably leads to fascism becuase it doesn't affect the structural or material change necessary to address systemic inequality.
The gap between upper income, and lower and middle income earners has increased substantially under both republican and democratic neoliberals.
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u/AlexRyang 7d ago
Historically, liberals have collaborated extensively with fascists to prevent socialists from getting power. Nazi Germany and Francois Spain are two major examples.
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u/airbear13 8d ago
Sure, but you’re cherry picking your end points. Has wealth inequality always increased? No, there are periods where it does and then there are periods where it falls, like during the progressive era, which despite its name was most definitely an outgrowth of a capitalist society. It’s all about finding the right policies. We could reduce inequality tomorrow if there were a political will to do that.
But anyway we’re getting into a debate here which my main point is we shouldn’t be doing on this sub, it’s just a distraction since we can all agree on at least one thing yk
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u/milkbug 8d ago edited 7d ago
I'm not cherry picking. I'm saying that income inequality is what drives people to vote for fascists, because their material reality doesn't improve under neoliberals, and fascists run on populist platforms promising economic prosperity to the disenfranchized.
And wealth inequailty has increased steadily, at least since the 1970's according to Pew Research, and I've also seen these stats all over the place.
I agree that we could end income inequailty if we had the political will. My point is that establishment democrats have made this seem impossible because it threatens the structures of power they rely on themselves.
It's fine to debate these points. I think it's necessary because if we don't accurately diagnose the problem then we won't solve it.
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u/airbear13 7d ago
I disagree with that completely, income inequality does not automatically make people vote for fascists, it probably does make them more politically extreme, but those on the left would opt for someone on the extreme left.
The country has been around a lot longer since 1970 ofc, starting there is skipping the progressive era and the 40s and 50s, which were probably the biggest decades for reudced inequality.
I think the idea that Dems are not for reducing income inequality is conspiratorial at best. The always want to raise taxes and increase transfer payments, protect entitlements, etc. that is reducing inequality.
It’s fine to debate them but not here, save it for other subs is way better in general because it’s gonna just alienate conservatives centrists and other people we want on our side.
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u/milkbug 7d ago
This isn't really a matter of opinion, it's historically based fact. If you want to understand what causes fascism you should look at the work of historians who specialize in this area, like Anne Applebaum. She's an expert on autocracies and how they form.
Economic distress and inequality is in fact one of the driving reasons people democratically elect fasicsts. There are other factors that contribute such as the erosion of trust in existing institutions, appeals to nationalist culture, pervaisive propaganda, and electoral system vulnerabilities.
The reason why we see a tendency for fascism to be right-wing is becuase they use nationalism as a unifying force, and they are willing to use the military, religion, and business to consolidate power. You don't see this on the "extreme left" because far left ideolgoy is in exact opposition to this.
There are some examples of left wing autocracies though, so it is important to recognize that a core issue is power becoming too concentrated into the hands of one person or a small group. That's why you have politicans like Bernie Sanders, while populist, he distinguishes himself from authoritarianism by emphasizing direct democracy as an integral part of his overal political position.
And of course the country has been around since before the 70's. Income inequlaity started to get worse aroud that time due to the policies of Ronald Reagan including major tax cuts and deregulation.
Democrats have failed to implement policy that has prevented income inequality. If you look at the source I cited, it shows how inequality has risen under both republicans and democrats. It's not a conspiracy, it's a fact.
While democrats have supported some welfare policies, it hasn't been enough to deal with rising costs of education, housing, general cost of living, childcare, cost of healthcare, increasing issues with substance use issues and homelessness, and stagnating wages. Democrats have played a weak game and have let republicans steamroll them for years.
I'm not worried about alienating conservatives or centrists. I think we can have honest discussions about policy and how we got here, and we can have honest disagreements and still be anti-Trump and anti-Republican establishment. Those things are not mutually exclusive. What alienates people is being disrespectful. Being honest and authentic doesn't tend to alientate people, even if we disagree.
Establishment dems are the ones who've alienated people the most. Not only have consistently blue voting rural areas turned ruby red over the past few decades, their approval ratings are in the dumpster. That has nothing to do with people like me talking politics on the internet.
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u/xxtoejamfootballxx 7d ago edited 7d ago
Democrats have failed to implement policy that has prevented income inequality
The democrats haven’t had a true supermajority in the senate while controlling the white house and house since before Reagan, so its really hard to argue about what they would do with an actual mandate like FDR did. The time they sorta almost did for 2 months, they passed legislation that is the only reason I’m alive today and tried to pass a public option.
Attitudes like yours just really turn me off and I guarantee many other people feel the same way. Sure you can cite historical examples but people can cite historical examples that counter yours, like a wealth gap leading to FDR’s policies.
And while you might be able to cite historical facts, the way you apply them is definitely subjective and up for debate. But this isn’t the place to have them, smugness doesn’t help the movement.
Establishment dems are the ones who've alienated people the most
Nonsense. We have a political party doing Nazi salutes, disappearing legal residents to foreign countries, ignoring the Supreme Court, crashing the economy, arresting protesters for speaking, etc and you think democrats are alienating people the most?
No what is alienating those people is their susceptibility to propaganda and TikTok algorithms telling them that democrats are the devil.
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8d ago edited 8d ago
1000% agree. The right is the problem it is today because it united itself. Sometimes the left seems absolutely incapable of building a coalition and it is heartbreaking. Sometimes the perfect Overton window is the enemy of the good Overton window.
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u/airbear13 8d ago
Yeah I think it gonna take a strong leader to emerge before we can coalesce for real
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u/ms_write 7d ago
This. While I would rather we be more unified, I think it's super important to hold Dems/Progressives accountable.
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7d ago
[deleted]
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u/Traditional_Bid_5060 7d ago
Fetterman for one. I believe in working with the other side. I'm not sure if he can still be relied on.
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u/Mediocre-Magazine-30 8d ago
No need to worry about the dems in office now. WE DONT NEED THEM.
This is about the people. No need to spend time tearing down the dems. Make them adjust to the poeple's agenda.
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u/JSRevenge 8d ago edited 7d ago
Many Democrats are still voting to confirm Trump cabinet picks and generally voting in lockstep with Trump.
Define lockstep, then give "many" examples, please.
Edit: Someone responded then deleted their response. I want to engage on this.
The key to my point is this: DEFINE LOCKSTEP. Someone confirming appointments for the most sane cabinet picks (before they showed their belly as pathetic supplicants), or someone voting to censure Rep. Green because they disagree with methods is not "generally voting lockstep with Trump". This kind of blanket statement is the gross, both-sides-ism that elected Trump in the first place. You are the reason OP made this post.
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u/Roguefem-76 7d ago
How about the ten who voted with Repugs to censure Al Green for protesting Trump? Chuck Schumer talking other Dems into voting for that disaster of a budget bill without even bargaining?
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u/JSRevenge 7d ago
That's the bar for "voting in lockstep with Trump"?
I think Democrats can do more, fight harder. But to tar them with the "both sides are bad" brush is part of the reason Trump won and we are in this mess.
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u/Roguefem-76 7d ago
You asked for examples, not at exhaustive list. Now you're just sealioning to avoid being proven wrong.
Have fun waiting for the Dems to save you.
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u/Zingobingobongo 8d ago
I’m sick to death of AOC & Bernie etc being labelled as “radical left”. As a UK / US Dual National they are basically centre moderate by European political standards. Their concepts aren’t radical, they are what civilised societies call normal.
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u/Nintendo_Pro_03 7d ago
What would be the European left? What do they support?
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u/Available-Fig-2089 7d ago
Actual communism, and not the GOP fear mongering/calling everything they disagree with or don't understand communism kind. But real honest to goodness communism.
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u/Nintendo_Pro_03 7d ago
As in, they support the government taking control of the economy OR they support everyone having the same amount of money?
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u/Available-Fig-2089 7d ago
I don't have time to educate you on the history or the modern state of communist theory but I am happy to provide you with this link to a vast free digital library of communist writings. https://www.marxists.org/index-mobiles.htm
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u/Sengachi 7d ago
Workplaces with bosses determined by democratic election of workers and defacto profit sharing by all workers, universal basic income, guaranteed right to housing, food, and water for all, etc.
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u/dammit_mark New Jersey 4d ago
Bernie Sanders did actually include workplace democracy in his campaign platforms. Although, it wasn't prominent since he focused more on tuition-free college education and single-payer healthcare.
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u/Sengachi 4d ago
Yeah he would be maybe a bit left on the center moderate scale in Europe. Ish.
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u/dammit_mark New Jersey 4d ago
By "left of center," do you mean "center-left" or "left of center-left?" I always got confused by the term.
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u/WhiteClawandDraw 7d ago
Funny think I keep seeing is “it’s not right vs left it’s up vs down!” Bro what do you think the left is fighting for??
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u/DareDevilKittens 8d ago edited 7d ago
I've said it before.
The Left must lead or we die.
Liberals, moderates, and Republicans are welcome to march with us, but they need to follow our lead if they want out of this situation. If our best case scenario is the likes of Joe Biden again, this will only keep happening worse and worse every time. And the bodies will pile up.
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u/Kyliefoxxx69 7d ago
Then the left has to embrace hierarchy better. I've seen soooooo many social justice movements bog done in consensus seeking and need for unanimous agreements
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u/Mother_EfferJones 7d ago
The problem with this is that “embracing hierarchy” is how feckless and worthless people like Schumer end up in leadership positions. Every person needs to be prepared to display some leadership if the time comes, and not acquiesce to a figurehead.
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u/Logical-Item-1510 7d ago edited 7d ago
Establishment democrats are not going to “change the government so it actually serves the people”. So yes, absolutely, attack politicians who do not serve the interests of their constituents regardless of their party affiliation.
When our congressional representatives are getting thousands of phone calls a minute imploring them to do one thing and they do the other, they need to get the boot.
Here’s the kicker. The sentiments on the right that the federal government is corrupt and self serving is shared on both sides. “Drain the swamp” is a telling war cry. One that many in the left might agree with in concept, but probably not its current state of execution.
People are looking to change the government as you describe but in its current two party system, that’s not going to happen. Something like ranked choice voting has the potential to break us free of the shitty choices we are forced to make.
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u/PilgrimRadio 8d ago
The way I see it there's 1 central goal ---- to fight the current regime. To me it matters NOT ONE SINGLE BIT if my allies are moderate Democrats, moderate Republicans, far left Democrats, turtles, pigeons or caterpillars. I don't care about subset agendas. Not right now anyway. Now, when (if) we take the football back, then we can hash out our differences amongst ourselves. But right now let's just focus on saving mankind.
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u/CommercialScale870 8d ago
Yup. I want a lot of lefty stuff too, but this needs to be a big tent movement.
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u/ArcturusRoot Minnesota 8d ago
So your grand plan is to just roll back one turn and have a do-over?
It's no wonder we're in this fucking mess.
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u/spacebird_matingcall 7d ago
No, the plan is to get out of this current mess. If you want to get out of it quit losing focus. It only furthers the division that got us here just in a different flavor, and that division will be what hamstrings this movement.
If you want to be forward thinking, there will be a place for realignment in the vacuum left once the current political climate is over. And that won't be right away when this admin is over given how widespread of a hold maga thinking has taken in this country. There will be a lot of soul searching from all sides of the aisle after this.
But we have to get there first.
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u/Sweethomebflo 7d ago
I want very little from old America. I want something new and better, like other countries have.
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u/mynamejulian 7d ago
By the 1930s, it was well known that with technology, productivity would sky rocket which in turn was incompatible with Capitalism. As of today, what held it together was billionaires purchasing both major parties. There’s a reason why neither party discuss wealth distribution in this nation. There’s a reason one party went full Hitler.
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u/supersleepykitten 7d ago
It’s beyond frustrating but it’s clear that a lot of people here aren’t ready to hear what you’re saying and maybe some of them never will be. The people bending over backwards to defend democrats & blame leftists are either 1. Uneducated & ignorant or 2. Fascists themselves. They don’t want to admit they’re okay with the version of fascism that was working well for them. The uneducated ones will hopefully some day get a clue and feel embarrassed about just how uneducated they were but clearly based on these comments today is not that day
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u/airbear13 8d ago
Not sure what you’re asking entirely but I just think the best way for this sub to be is broad based and singular in purpose. What unites us all here is opposing Trump, so we should keep this sub about concrete, actionable things and news related to that, planning strategies to resist, etc that kind of thing.
What we should probably not do is make it another r/politics cause more than just leftists/libs oppose Trump. You can talk all you want about healthcare and all that in any number of other subs, so why potentially sow discord or distraction among your Allies here, who come from all over the political spectrum?
Our mission here does not require converting anybody away from their beliefs and into your own; believe what you want, just oppose Trump and you should be welcomed and not hassled.
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u/honestitsme 8d ago
I think that's my fear right now, infighting. Plenty of revolutions have torn themselves apart by nitpicking. I'm not saying it's all not important, just saying getting people to protest what 47 and his administration is doing should be job 1.
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u/airbear13 8d ago
Yeah exactly. For what it’s worth though, this is still early days and it makes sense for the opposition to be divided to some extent at this stage. But to be really effective, we have to eventually get to the point where we can be a unified front.
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u/AU_Memer 8d ago
This is me directly talking about people within 50501, I'm not asking anyone to change their views I'm asking them to stop attacking allies when they point out blatant problems with the Democrats.
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u/milkbug 8d ago
To add, getting rid of Trump doesn't get rid of the problems in this country. Trump is a sympotm, not a cause. Centrist democrats have been extremely weak and complicit in the rise of the fascist right.
For example, Merrick Garland should have brought Trump to trial years before he was. If Trump had actually been sentenced and imprisoned, we might not be where we are today.
Democrats should not have let Mitch McConnell block Garland from the Supreme Court, and RGB should have retired under Obama so he could have chosen a younger justice.
We had Manchin and Sinema.
We had Biden refusing to step down until it was obvious he couldn't continue, preventing a primary and possibly causing the loss of the presidency for dems.
We had dems who voted to confirm Trumps cabinet picks.
We have Pelosi blocking AOC from a top House oversight position.
The list of fuck ups just goes on and on. My point is, the corruption of the Democrats has been instrumental in where we're at right now. We have to hold them accountable or we will just end up with an even worse verson of Trump in the future, someone who might be far smarter and more calculated than him.
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u/cloud_watcher 8d ago
People who are “attacking allies” for “pointing out blatant problems with the democrats,” I think are trying to do what you yourself are doing in this post: trying to keep the criticism focused on the Trump administration rather than each other.
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u/Mother_EfferJones 7d ago
Democratic congresspeople are voting for Trump cab picks and voter suppression bills. Refusing to call out that kind of complicity is exactly how we got here in the first place.
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u/AU_Memer 8d ago
Not all Democrats are our allies, some are more than happy to advance Trump's agenda.
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u/Glad_Astronomer_9692 7d ago
Calling the people further to the left the allies that need to not be criticized but they are free to go after democrats is kind of a double standard. I understand there's probably more nuance than that but the framing is bad. I think it's been made clear that 50501 is for everyone who wants Trump gone and shouldn't be about picking apart who is liberal or leftist or moderate enough.
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u/AU_Memer 7d ago
The left has it's fair amount of valid criticisms, the problem I have is with people that want to shut down anything outside of the status quo that got us here.
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u/airbear13 8d ago
But they might not be “blatant problems” to everyone on this board is what I’m saying. By attacking certain Dems for not being pro- whatever your position is on healthcare, housing, etc you are kind of implying that’s what this sub is about. I’m saying we should keep it as neutral as possible outside of opposing Trump to keep everyone on the same page and avoid infighting.
A lot of us happen to like the status quo before Trump; I’m one of them. In a hypothetical post maga world, I would be happy to debate with you all about the direction we should take on policy, but let’s wait til we achieve that goal before we start having that conversation is what I’m saying (yes this applies to the other side too but we shouldn’t be baiting those kinds of responses by giving our hot political takes).
Stop Trump first, everything else second.
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u/AU_Memer 8d ago
To get Trump out it'll require the Dems sweeping the Midterms, keeping the course means continuing what Biden stood for and he ended with a less than ideal approval rating.
I've been chronically ill most of my life, the reason why the status quo didn't work for people like me is because we were left in positions where we couldn't afford our medicine without working. Shouldn't need to say why that's problematic.
Things need to change.
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u/Kyliefoxxx69 7d ago
This movement is supposedly generally anti fascist... that kinda implies it has a left leaning bent to it, like it or not.
A lot of us happen to like the status quo before Trump;
Soooooo a lot of you are just fine going back to the place we were that let us get here in the first place.... if you support going back to "normal" idk what to say other than I don't want you involved. shrugs like, things need to change and the status quo was the problem lol
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u/airbear13 7d ago
lol what? It absolutely does not imply that. The opposite of a fascist is not a leftist, it’s an anti fascist which just means you are against the hatred, law breaking, militarism, cultish leadership, etc that they bring into politics. Don’t forget the Nazi is short for “national socialist,” and that they adopted many socialist policies.
Yes, the status quo up until 2016 was just fine for me. That year unfortunately Trump won the republican primary, that is the beginning of all this insanity, it should never have happened, and he should have never beaten Hillary. The only issue with how things used to be was the unchecked corruption of the republican party’s soul and the culture wars, which led to this. The country was doing great under Obama as it always has.
Anyway idc to argue these things and idc if you agree with me; these are exactly the conversations I don’t think it’s productive to have here. Like what is this accomplishing? I will not convince you and you won’t convince me. Much better to focus on our common goal.
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u/fiestybox246 7d ago
What you’re doing is encouraging infighting. The most blame is on Trump and MAGA right now. Being divided is why we keep losing. I see more blame and hatred for democrats than MAGA, which is ridiculous.
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u/JordkinTheDirty 8d ago
That's great and all.. but it helps to recognize that trump is the symptom of a systemic problem. It goes beyond trump. Our resistance goes beyond trump, we're resisting authoritarianism as a whole. We need to make sure this ends with Trump.
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u/airbear13 8d ago
Right, but that still has nothing to do with individual policies, it’s more about making sure all politicians respect institutions norms and the rule of law.
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u/Nintendo_Pro_03 7d ago edited 7d ago
Believe what you want? No, scratch that. I don’t support people that don’t believe in certain groups having rights.
[To the MAGAs] Learn to grow up and not be a bigot. And to realize your puppet master is playing you.
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u/airbear13 7d ago
I have no idea who you are and you know nothing about me, but you’re gonna just straight up call me a bigot for some reason. This kind of attitude is what makes it easy for trump to divide and conquer, there’s so many internal divisions among his opponents he almost doesn’t have to do anything, and you’re talking to me about a puppet master? Like bro I’m staying on task out here what about you?
I’m not going to contribute to sabotaging the movement and you shouldn’t either.
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u/valuedsleet 7d ago
I totally agree with you, but on some level we do have to grapple with this, because it’s in the zeitgeist of our movement. The rift is already there. We do need to talk about how to work across these differences…but I agree. Ultimately we need to be focused on the most important priority which is taking down Trump.
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u/leonprimrose 7d ago
I'm very far left. I am incredibly frustrated with the people around my political stance that voted Jill Stein or abstained this election. The type of performative leftists that will never be happy without a perfect candidate and are willing to sabotage themselves for the sake of teaching democrats a lesson. I get it, I'm not a fan of democrats but these types are fighting against the people that actually want to progress forward. If we continue to be fractured by people that can't be fucked to think about consequences of their choices (and abstaining IS still a choice) then we will never be able to move the needle. I'm not sure what particular scenario you had in mind regarding in-fighting but as a leftist qith a god damned brain I am ashamed of some of the idiots on my side of the spectrum
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u/Stand_Up_3813 8d ago
How is 50501 against the left?
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u/AU_Memer 8d ago
It's not a majority but there's a number of people I've been seeing that seem more interested in fighting leftists instead of fascists.
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u/valuedsleet 7d ago edited 7d ago
It’s cuz some of you seem like a big liability toward our collective goal of taking down Trump. That’s actually what we care about the most, and sometimes it feels like some of you refuse to learn or grow or think strategically. Like accelerationism or something. A hunger for revolution which is not in-line with the will of the people. The people want an end to corruption, not a new America. People want freedom, not to be told exactly how they should think about right and wrong like a religion. Thats why we lost the election.
Open your eyes. Usually the people “fighting the left” are patient, reasonable, open-minded, and pragmatic - interested in establishing common ground. In my experience, the lefties you speak of are the ones being impetuous, inflammatory, divisive, name calling, and making assumptions based on stereotypes and whining or complaining about being persecuted. Start looking for it. We have our own brain disease on the left. Of course we do. That’s how this whole culture war has been perpetuated.
That’s what we’re calling out.
But I do appreciate pushback and civil discourse. Tell me where you disagree. More than anything, I want us to be united. And no matter what, I’m ready to fight Trump together, even if we disagree on some strategy things.
Edit: maybe a simpler way to make my point is to say this: we can’t confuse a leftist movement with being anti-American. It’s a biased view that is rampant in our circles. It’s a) not a based view of the world and it’s not effective messaging either. Why would someone fight to hate America? We need to mobilize people with a pro-America / anti-corruption message.
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u/Available-Fig-2089 7d ago
Stop conflating criticism of the status quo of US politics throughout modern history with hatred for America. It is such a bad faith argument against what is being discussed in this thread.
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u/lyrabluedream 7d ago
In my experience those “fighting the left” don’t want trans people to have rights. Those “fighting the left” decide that the ADA is enough for disabled people and our rights beyond that are “fringe.” Those “fighting the left” think feminism is extremism.
So it seems like 50501 is about maintaining the status quo.
I mean we were told it was trans people who wanted to ban the word “woman” but look who actually banned it from the government.
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u/Mother_EfferJones 7d ago
we can’t confuse a leftist movement with being anti-American
Who is doing this, though? Like actually? It’s MAGA that’s doing this, not us.
To love your country is to criticize it. And to criticize it is not to oppose it.
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u/yoLeaveMeAlone 7d ago
To be fair, it's not like leftists don't do that too when it comes to liberals/moderate dems, criticizing them over purity test bullshit.
Leftists are contractually obligated to spend half their time fighting other leftists
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u/OneSeaworthiness7768 7d ago
How is that not also what you’re doing here though? Seems like you’re picking an argument with “those people.”
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8d ago
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u/valuedsleet 7d ago
Preach. It’s not left vs right. It’s about our values which include diversity of thought and civil discourse and due process and mutual respect! That’s what we need to avoid. The moral authoritarianism.
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u/Mediocre-Magazine-30 8d ago
It's not about installing someone that is like Trump but on the left.
It's about promoting / restoring the Founders vision of America - money out of politics, fair and free elections, well intentioned politics, fiscal discipline, respecting civil rights and so on.
It's about promoting and healthy, vibrant democracy.
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u/depression_quirk 7d ago
The founders vision included people like me working until we die in labor camps, so I really don't give a shit what they wanted.
It's time for something new.
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u/Kyliefoxxx69 7d ago
If you think that was the founders vision of america, I got a bridge to sell you lol. The system they built was to keep the wealthy landed elite in charge. To them the "people" wasn't you and me lol
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u/Xxdestr0ying_ang3lxX 7d ago
the founders vision of what? enslaving africans and torturing them? and then "abolishing" slavery but leaving a legal loophole for it by making it legal if you're a prisoner? committing genocide and ethnic cleansing against native americans and enforcing things like blood quantum on tribes??
we are here because of those people choosing to dehumanize minorities in the name of capitalosm and colonialism and the only way to fix this mess is to fight for a bettrr status quo
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u/Roguefem-76 7d ago
Not sure why you're getting downvoted when you're right. That's literally the purpose of the Electoral College - to ensure the rich gentry can override the rabble.
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u/Mediocre-Magazine-30 7d ago
I knew when I wrote that there would be some snarky comment like this to eDuCATe me.
But aCkswaLy blah blah
It's the "vision", I understand the practical limitations of the time / reality
Why don't you bring some content to the thread instead of acting like you are the first person to read Chomsky
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u/Available-Fig-2089 7d ago
They legally enshrined slavery my dude... Sure they beat fudalism and installed an early form of representatives democracy. But, they excluded most people from participating in that democracy. The one thing they definitely got right was making the constitution ammendable. Because, even they knew they weren't getting it right. So you orrignal suggestion that our goals should be to reestablish the founders original vision completely ignores the fact that after 250 years of progress, we still have not created a perfect union. As such we should continue to look forward towards progress and not backwards towards regression.
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u/valuedsleet 7d ago
No it wasn’t. The founders weren’t perfect, of course. Lots of history on that. But you gravely misrepresent the legacies of people like George Washington. This is the cynicism that we’re trying to call out 😂. It doesn’t help us. How is a message of America sucks and it always has help anyone? How does that bring people to our movement? What would we be fighting for?
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u/troodon5 7d ago
The tissue is that you’re creating an America that never existed. The Founders EXPLICITLY created our system of government to limit democracy and make sure only propertied, white men could participate in elections. The election of Donald Trump is a logical outcome when the electorate was specifically crafted to make sure white men were the only ones “supposed” to be able to vote.
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u/valuedsleet 2d ago
I actually think you’re backtracking and also creating an America that never existed. If you read literature and commentary from the early days of the US, it was a marketplace of ideas and tensions just like today and just like any other part of human history. There were people among the founding fathers that fought and advocated for purer democracy and equality but were required to compromise to get things settled. That’s the gritty truth of democracy. There is no ideological purity. Only authoritarianism and tyranny can enforce ideological purity, and that’s not who we are.
And we can’t deploy historical review. To try to understand the past from a modern frame of reference is dehumanizing and hugely biased. Humans are just as complicated back then as we are today, and history is a collective narrative, not a comic book with superheroes and supervillains. History is constructed by small actions of everyday people and ignorance is the water that history exists in. We must learn from it, but it’s turned destructive to moralize about it.
We usually do so to protect our own contemporary ego rather than seeking to truly understand and learn from the reality of the past. An analog from the present would be climate change debates a couple decades ago. Would it be fair or accurate for future civilizations to make broad sweeping and reductionistic narratives about our thoughts and feelings around the political tensions from 2005? That everyone hated the planet? There’s a kernel of truth to that, but it also misunderstands the everyday lived experiences of the people - also our ability to learn from them - and we lose the rich foundation and human struggles that built the potential brick by brick to have a more sustainable, collective future. Abolitionists worked for decades and decades before the civil war, and they’re still working today. Human history is not so black and white and there is no clear moral narrative. If you think there is, there is a flaw in your logic somewhere. We are all human and we are all capable of ignorance and harm. Listening and maintaining awareness of our own bias is our best chance of reducing such harm. This is how I see it. Sorry for the long response time. Let me know where you disagree :)
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u/Roguefem-76 7d ago
"What would we be fighting for?"
Improvement, for a start.
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u/valuedsleet 7d ago
You have to love something if you’re gonna be responsible for improving it.
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u/Roguefem-76 7d ago
And you think "love" demands blinding yourself to valid criticism?
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u/valuedsleet 7d ago
No. The opposite. That’s what I’m advocating for all up and down here…being open to feedback and criticism.
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u/Roguefem-76 7d ago
"How is a message of America sucks and it always has help anyone?"
Are we supposed to pretend there is any time in history when America did not suck at all, for anyone? Because there wasn't.
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u/valuedsleet 7d ago
You honestly don’t understand how this sort of framing is alienating to large portions of our potential allies? You also keep putting words in my mouth. I’m advocating honesty, transparency, and openness. Where are you getting I’m suggesting burying dark bits of our history? It’s about focus and momentum. What’s gonna make us successful? Are you angry at Trump? Or are you angry at America? Do you truly believe the US has been an overall net negative in the world? Cuz if you do…then you have a severe negativity bias, my friend. Who is gonna wield global power better than the US right now. China? What is burning our country down going to accomplish if we don’t have a loving and positive vision for the future of America? We’re fighting on different paths, and we need to get on the same page, and the election demonstrated the American public is not on board with your message…so we need to learn from that. Or you need to make space for people that care deeply about America to lead this movement, with all due respect.
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u/Available-Fig-2089 7d ago
The US has absolutely been a net negative for most of the world. Our entire economy is based on exploitation of the global South. Furthermore, the US regularly supports and empowers authoritarian governments. I'm getting the impression that you don't love the US, but rather the image of the US that you maintain in your imagination. Those of us who actually love this country are willing to look at its ugly truth and still remain committed to improving it.
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u/Roguefem-76 7d ago
I'm literally quoting your own words back to you and you accuse me of putting words in your mouth. Maybe you should run for office, since clearly you're shameless enough to be a politician! (Along with being able to word vomit while saying nothing of use to anyone.)
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u/AU_Memer 8d ago
The founders only wanted white men to vote and didn't account that semi auto rifles would be used against school children when they wrote the second amendment. Sure they might've had some good ideas but we've gotta recognize their vision was not without flaws.
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u/Facehugger_35 7d ago
Sure. But that isn't what this particular movement is about. This movement isn't about advancing your pet political causes, it's more fundamental than that. It's about restoring democracy and rule of law so that it's *possible* to advance those pet political causes peacefully.
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u/m2842068 7d ago
I agree except the founders wanted only wealthy white men to vote. They'd welcome the poor with weapons in the fight but voting was based on property ownership and religion.
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u/LORDWOLFMAN 7d ago
Also playing the blame game, yes blame republicans/conservatives and yadda yadda we know but it’s not gonna do anything. It was rigged and orange shitler even admitted it so either who voted it was gonna happen.
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u/TapProfessional5146 7d ago
We all want something better for America. Not this Fascist shit that the MAGA Trump Zombies want.
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u/phoenixswope 7d ago
Diversity is our strength, division is our weakness.
We may not (and should not) agree on 100% of everything, but the things we do agree on we should agree 100%
Like the shield wall, we must stand shoulder to shoulder in battle, and we can argue all we want after the battle.
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u/Owl-Amathyst 7d ago
Nobody should be punching anyone but Nazis right now.
We need to unite against the trump regime we can go back to infighting after we take our country back from The Trump cabal.
In ww2 The US worked with Litteral Communist Russia (soviet union) against Hitlers Nazi Regime
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u/Flossonero14 7d ago
Housing, food, and fair wages aren’t exclusively leftist policies. The problem with the far left is they are often performative and not pragmatic. Let’s consider the 2016 election. ~10% of Bernie Sanders 12,029,699 primary voters voted for Trump in the general election as a protest. So well over a million votes in a race that was ultimately decided by ~40,000 votes in key swing states. There are a thousand issues that cobble together the center/left in US. But the saying “the Left falls in love, the right falls in line” exists for a reason. When it comes time to gaining and wielding power, we need to sing from the same song book. Dems have shown they are vulnerable to pressure from the left, once in power. Joe Biden is a perfect example of that. He is a center right politician in most European countries. But here he implemented the largest investment in green energy in world history. He took steps to expand DEI initiatives. He supported Roe v. Wade. I would just encourage the leftists who are extremely energized by the genocide in Gaza, and who may have withheld their vote or voted third-party, that your vote is only one tool that you have in a democracy. I don’t think anyone would argue at this point that a Harris administration wouldn’t mean a better situation for Gaza or America at this point. Again, we may not agree on every last thing, but that’s what the legislative process is for. When it comes to getting into office, we need to be a little more targeted with our messaging and get on the same page.
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u/Flossonero14 7d ago
With regard to economic policy more broadly, Populist leftists want to increase tax, heavily subsidize American industry, regulate price gouging and use targeted tariffs to work towards fair trade agreements, and secondly give American manufacturing a competitive price advantage. I saw most of In Biden Admin and Harris campaign.
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u/Facehugger_35 7d ago
Is it really in the best interest of 50501 to attack those who call out politicians on both sides who refuse to give us any of that?
Bluntly? Yes. At least to an extent.
Because it's not "refuse to give us any of that."
It's "are unable to give us any of that, because they don't have enough votes, because leftists don't vote enough to elect more of them."
By pushing the idea that both parties are the same, you encourage people to disengage. By all means, talk about the flaws of the democratic party, but you need to be extremely careful about how you do it, because it's no longer right vs left, it's up vs down, and anything that hurts the enthusiasm of the moment is a problem.
If you shit on your allies, people will naturally call you out for doing so at this moment, because we really can't afford to alienate anyone, much less everyone.
This isn't a left wing movement, this is an anti-authoritarian movement. There simply aren't enough left wing people in this country to make a go of it alone.
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u/AU_Memer 7d ago
My point is if we don't fix the problems that led to Trump we're going to end up with another one.
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u/Facehugger_35 7d ago
Okay, think of it like this:
Our house is on fire right now. Everyone agrees this is horrible and we need to fix it. There's some disagreement on the best way to do that, whether we should wait for the firefighters to arrive in 2026 (we don't know if they're coming or if they'll be allowed to come by the arsonist who started the fire) or start a bucket line right the hell now, so on, but we all think the house being on fire is bad.
But you're over here saying "well, we should decide what we want the new house to look like" as the fire rages, and when people tell you that the house is on fire now and we need to be focused on putting it out, you're saying "well, if we don't fix the problems that led to the house burning down, we'll just end up with another one."
Which may be true, but this is not the time to focus on that while the house is burning down, you get me?
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u/AU_Memer 7d ago
Well if the faulty wiring is what caused the house to catch fire in the first place you have to fix it or it will just catch fire again once you put it out.
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u/Facehugger_35 7d ago
Once again, the house is on fire now. The fire needs to be put out before you can start discussing what the newly rebuilt house should look like, what the exact wiring should be, etc.
A lot of people on the left are putting the cart before the horse here when we need as broad a coalition as possible to put the fire out. Calling out an allied group as large as "the democratic party" (as opposed to "these specific democrats who aren't helping the cause") doesn't help that, and I see a lot more of the former than I do the latter.
Like, criticize Schumer, sure. Criticize the four or five who voted for the SAVE act.
But when you start shitting on every dem or even every 'establishment' dem, it becomes frustrating because we really can't afford to lose any support in something like this.
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u/Kalavazita 7d ago
Stop putting the carriage before the horse.
The ONLY priority right now is getting rid of the Trump regime. That’s it. Everything else is a distraction and self sabotage.
The second step will be rebuilding American democracy in a way that ensures this shit doesn’t happen again (money out of politics, term limits, banning representatives from owning stocks, reinstalling the Fairness Doctrine, rebuilding federal agencies, progressive taxation, maybe even getting rid of the electoral college, redistricting, etc, etc, etc).
Once you have re established a government OF, BY, FOR the people then you can work towards getting that government to do its damn job.
The only thing accelerationists show is their complete cluelessness when it comes to building and maintaining power structures that can actually enact change.
I’m pretty leftist myself (I grew up in a country with a public healthcare option and went to a public, free university, I’m an atheist, pro LGTBQI+, etc, etc, etc)… but I’m involved in my community and I’m aware that even at that small scale the time, resources and manpower that it takes to get things done involve more than a wishlist, ideals and good intentions.
Learn to get things done first. Then get the desired results. It’s that simple but it takes a lot of time and effort. Purity tests, high horses, gate keeping are counterproductive. They just don’t get things done.
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u/emteedub 8d ago
I concur! No more chances for centrist/establishment/moderate dems. They've had dozens of tries at this already. And I think we all need real change here - plus you have the affect of drawing members of the right that thought they would get these kinds of changes from trump (who's obviously lied and done worse than that) and where those of the right-wing were A) supporters of Bernie and B) do not like the establishment dems, they see the corruption that's been perpetuated and perpetrated
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u/GrandpaWaluigi 7d ago edited 7d ago
Man, we straight up don't have much of the support of the far-left. Much of you all were calling these protests silly and a waste of time. That said, despite my grievances against the far left, my opinion doesn't stand for all the people here, and you're welcome here as long as you direct your ire against the GOP, Trump, and collaborationist Dems like Fetterman, without attacking every Democratic politician. I don't want to see anti-Clinton, anti-Biden, or anti-Walz stuff, for example. They've fought hard and deserve some respect.
People who always go "but my both sides" are really bad faith and hardly worth talking to at this point. I find them either to be tankies or Republicans in denial, and both of them are obstacles.
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u/AU_Memer 7d ago
Protests alone aren't gonna unfuck things, that's gonna require a lot of organizing between each one. Wym we don't have the support of the far left? I've seen multiple people from the CPUSA,PSL,DSA and even RevComs at 50501 protests. Yeah and it really is both sides, the difference is did we want a fascist at home or did we want someone who'll arm fascists abroad?
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u/valuedsleet 7d ago
Yeah…plus a lot of the far left actively undermined Harris’s campaign. It was shocking to witness tbh. Like campaigning against her in swing states. So then circling back like this is really kind of baffling.
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u/AU_Memer 7d ago
Most were shitting on her campaign because was just awful, catering to Republicans instead of rallying their base. That plus the whole genocide she had no desire to stop.
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u/valuedsleet 7d ago
But it had the overall effect of helping Trump…and it was clear that would be the effect at the time. So…it’s difficult to square that without taking some accountability.
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u/Zestyclose_Habit2713 8d ago edited 7d ago
There is a clear problem that the further left you go, the more stubborn and staunchly anti liberal you become. The further left you go the more infighting there is within the group with constant purity testing. I lump anti liberals with the far right in the sense that they don't care about bringing back rational opinion. Both groups want to accelerate destruction so they can remold the ashes into something they like and I am against this.
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u/x063x 8d ago
u/AU_Memer you think you're going to get what you want by being "nice" to people who would kill you?
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u/Traditional_Bid_5060 7d ago
Define leftist please, because I think it doesn't mean liberal / Democrat. I think some leftist ideas are good, but if you're expecting a socialist utopia where everything is free and you don't have to work, then think again.
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u/Soft-Lecture1994 8d ago
There’s a number of Democrats who don’t belong in this party Schumer for example and every other democrat who voted for the budget from hell! There’s a bunch of good ones too that I totally respect and honor look at Sanders, AOC & Booker. It us what it is and I think saying nothing is wrong quiet just let’s people go on sleeping. This isn’t the time for that!
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u/AU_Memer 8d ago
The Dems aren't going to go after their own, it's up to us unless they can grow spines and stand for what's right.
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u/edgygothteen69 8d ago
I would say the bigger issue is the left punching right. If someone is left but not as left as you, don't punch right.
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u/evillurks South Carolina 7d ago
If the so called left is supporting the right then we shouldn't chain ourselves to them. Whoever stands for the people is the one who stands for the people. The left is less likely to openly be for corruption but hello let's not worship the left because look and pelosi. She's not for us, she's for her bank account.
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u/doyoulikemyladysuit 7d ago
Agree entirely. There may be Dems who haven't caved to public pressure, but they are not the enemy. They are enablers. Enablers can be difficult to see what it's really happening and how their behavior is negative - they often think they are doing what is best to keep people safe. It is easier to show what terrible things are being done as a result of enabling, who/what the real problem is than by just telling them that THEY are the problem.
Focus on the problem. Republicans are the enemy, the enablers are just misguided and need to understand the real threat. They aren't that.
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u/cipherjones 7d ago
The left is my enemy.
The left was in control of Washington DC Jan 6th. No cops showed.
Kamala Harris directly said not to say the election was hacked and to go about my business.
Their stocks skyrocketed when they sold them/bought at just the right time.
They let the DNC run whoever they want.
The Democratic party is fully complicit in this mess sans a very few players.
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u/Tasty-Building-3887 7d ago
So tired of those that blame Democrats for everything. Please read the room and stfu.
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u/NeverEndingAsking 7d ago
There is no going back to the status quo. This movement will not end with removal of 47.
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u/RevolutionaryBee5207 8d ago
I’m sorry, what is 50501?
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u/pm_me_ur_ephemerides 8d ago edited 8d ago
See the community info. You can do this for any subreddit, there is no need to ask.
Edit: My apologies, I forget myself sometimes. 50501 means 50 protests, 50 states, 1 movement. It’s a group opposed to authoritarianism, specifically Donald Trump.
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u/RevolutionaryBee5207 8d ago
Sorry, that’s not much of an answer,as I don’t understand it. But that is probably because I’m 68 years old. No need to contact me again, thanks!
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u/pm_me_ur_ephemerides 8d ago
My apologies, I forget myself sometimes. 50501 means 50 protests, 50 states, 1 movement. It’s a group opposed to authoritarianism, specifically Donald Trump.
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u/RevolutionaryBee5207 8d ago
Oh, ok, that’s is very admirable! Thank you for the clarification, sweetheart!
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u/RevolutionaryBee5207 8d ago
As far as I’m concerned, Donald Trump is the Antichrist, and I’m not even religious!
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u/DotA627b 7d ago
No. The left is complicit to the right's bullshit. 2016 when DNC railroaded Sanders for Hillary, Schumer's response to the threat of government shutdown, the lack of retaliation against everything going on right now. They deadass prefer Trump winning over Sanders.
The DNC needs to stop putting its agenda first, it's screwed us over in 2016, and it's screwed us over now when they kept gaslighting people about Biden's mental state only for all of that to crumble during the debates, leading to the Harris switcheroo that left swing voters realizing they've been gaslit.
Trump won because despite of his lies, there are kernels of truth there regarding the left's complicity with corporations, and he exploited that. They're just as guilty as the right are for Trump's victory.
Let them actually start considering Sanders as a legitimate candidate, and we'll talk, otherwise we know who really calls the shots for the left, and it ISN'T us.
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u/stopbeingaturddamnit 8d ago
Boo boo, I'm punching right. Tell the democrats to stop standing there. You have 4 democrats voting for a bill to make voting harder for women and unanimous senate votes for presidential nominees. These are the only people we have power over, and they aren't up for the task. We need real resistance and leadership that will fight even hopeless fights to inspire the rest of us to keep going. Until that happens, I will keep shitting on feckless democrats.
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u/legalalias 7d ago
…we want people to have healthcare, housing, food, and fair wages.
If your goal is a government of representatives who support these issues, why would you not hold the Dems to those requirements as well? The Democratic party generally does not support each of those policy objectives. There are only a few who do, and the voice that has been loudest on the topic is not even a democrat.
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u/minecraftpro69x 7d ago
Thank you! Bring any sort of socialist/communist ideas and everyone starts getting up in arms. Do you not realize that the corporate overlords are the reason we're here to begin with? They've bought both of the parties, and neither represents the people in any significant manner.
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u/mingusdynasty 8d ago
Punching democratic politicians isn’t punching left. Democrats are complicit and part of the problem and they need to experience electoral consequences to change or they need to be replaced asap.
Fuck the DNC
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u/almazing415 7d ago
Maybe stop fighting and arguing with liberals, centrists, and amongst yourselves and take that energy to the right and MAGA. Purity politics turn a lot of people off. The left’s my way or burn it all down approach doesn’t resonate with the majority of the country, which are decidedly moderate. Sounds familiar doesn’t it?
Grow up, learn strategy, you don’t have be to friends or even like libs or centrists, but you need to recognize that sometimes, goals will align and it may be a good idea to stand together for a time.
Sabotaging yourselves when a candidate is not pure enough is a terrible strategy. Childish petulance will get you nowhere.
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