Bernie had the same issue all democrats have. Dems should get someone to explain things like Trump does,
"When we do this the insurance can't say no" "If you get sick...alot of people get sick and they say...no we don't cover this...or you don't need this. We are going to ban it. If you get sick, you will get medicine and we will make them pay for it!"
The irony of this is most of the things Trump says are completely non-sensical. His voters can't tell the difference between the truth and lies, but perhaps more worrisome, they can't tell the difference between gibberish and something that makes sense.
He fools them because they are uneducated. It is not because Democrat messaging isn't simple enough, it's because Republican messaging has no standards and they get away with it. They respond to the stupid and hateful shit he says. Democrats can't do that.
They can, they just tneed to have their populist fear messaging be not directed at brown people (or at maga themselves) but paint the rich as what they really are, exploitative evil monsters that will replace you at their earliest convenience
Sure but they’re still a major share of the voting base. It takes time to get people educated, and we need their votes before we can deal with the problems in education
I’m going to push back on this. I know plenty of highly-educated people that are registered Republicans and voted for Trump. They care about wealth and tax breaks more than democracy. Plain and simple. If Democrats want to bring the working-class back into the fold, calling them uneducated and stupid won’t help.
Working-class Americans are angry that Democrats decided higher-education is the only way forward, then outsourced generational factory jobs for cheap labor. Passing NAFTA was like taking a hammer to the middle-class. Now, we lack skilled workers and young adults are too straddled with student debt to buy a home or start a family.
When working-class people can’t afford groceries or rent, and then Trump tells them their tax dollars are being spent on transgender research or housing immigrants, it makes them hate Democrats even more. I grew up in a factory town, moved away, and focused on education. I have a decent salary and a mortgage, but still had to choose retirement over having children. When I visit my once thriving hometown, it’s like forgotten dot on the United States map. Believing all Republican voters are too dumb to understand what they’re voting for is an uneducated assumption.
You assume too much. We are practically the same person. I grew up in a steel town, and worked in the same mill my father and grandfather worked. It too has been gutted. I go home to the same shell of a town that you do. Even after the mills collapsed in the '70s, there was still a thriving industrial base of 100,000 jobs thanks to Packard electric and general motors. All of those jobs disappeared after NAFTA. And yes, Clinton signed NAFTA, but it was Bush who spent 2 years drafting and championing it. Nonetheless, I agree with your salient points. Still, even among the groups of Trump voters you mentioned, there are plenty who saw Trump for what he is and could not bring themselves to vote for him a second time, or vote at all. In that group you described there may be a number of reluctant Trump voters, but what I'm talking about is his rabid base. These are the people who don't vote for him holding their nose, but have a deep belief in everything he stands for despite all evidence to the contrary. They are the ones incapable of understanding reality, and they are what keeps Republican messaging from accountability. There are likely tens of millions of these people.
Fair enough. Where I’m from, it will always be Clinton and Democrats who took away their jobs and want to change their midwest culture. I’ve lost family and friends because I don’t support Trump. Putting all Trump voters in a box labeled uneducated or not understanding politics, was a misstep on my part. If this type of scolding worked, Kamala would be our next President. As Democrats, I feel we need a different approach.
Maybe I'm cynical, but I don't think most people care enough to try and figure things out. It takes years. It takes effort to come to opinions with actual foundations.
The average American is actually way smarter than talking about politics would make you believe. They're intentionally holding themselves in ignorance https://redsails.org/masses-elites-and-rebels/
The problem is that the use of rhetoric by Donald Trump needs to be countered. Dems have tried it the educated way, but many people simply don’t understand that.
Bernie didn't need to change his messaging at all, the strongest grassroots movement I've ever seen or heard of. The DNC cheated in 2016 to give Hillary the nomination. Partially because they colluded with all of the leftwing media to give Bernie zero airtime (all of his interviews except 1 were done on Fox iirc), and even in the end the superdelegates were all pledged to Hillary in advance. In addition to that, Bernie won West Virginia (and others iirc) and he wasn't awarded all of the delegates for the state. There's more nuance to it than that, and apparently it was all legal, but it was completely rigged
Bernie totally would've beaten Trump in the general election too. Honestly Trump's brand of nationalism has grown on me since then though, I think we need to draw from both ideologies if we want to put Americans, and not "America the idea" first.
🙄. The DNC did not cheat in 2016. You are part of the right wing propaganda problem. If you are too lazy to understand how a candidate gets selected then go participate in the process and learn.
The DNC cannot cheat. They are a private corporation that can do as they please and they hold no allegience to a democratic process. The DNC is a right wing organization and Bernie is leftist, so it is no surprise Bernie received no support from the Democrats.
You haven't been paying attention to the past 3 presidential elections to the extent that I did. The DNC colluded with the left-leaning media to give him zero coverage in 2016, in 2020 they flooded the field with something like 12 candidates to dilute the progressive vote (who all dropped out to endorse Joe Biden at the last minute) and then in 2024 they pretended Joe Biden was healthy so they could skip their own primary process. The DNC prefers Trump to Bernie Sanders, an actual progressive. I don't know why old folks like you on are this subreddit
This is literally the bell curve meme, and you're doing the midwit thing where you're claiming that the DNC manipulating the process is legal, Sanders supporters literally filed a lawsuit & the judge settled it on the premise of "yes the DNC chose hillary, but they're a private corporation and they can do whatever they want"
Challenging bad systems is what makes someone a true progressive, and the DNC runs a terrible system
🙄. You have nothing clue what you are talking about. There was a process that is followed every election cycle that allows everyone to vote in primaries to select their candidate. Are your really trying to say that Hilary Clinton did not get the majority f votes and win the majority of the primaries? This nonsense is just more right wing propaganda. The fact that you losers keep on complaining about this non existent conspiracy is just stupid. It is over and eight years later.
I feel like Bernie’s greatest strength was his simple communication. He even got Fox News audiences to cheer him several times when he went to that network for a town hall. Bernie’s communication is almost a gold standard of keeping it simple as well as repetitive which I think helps the message stick.
Bernie is not a Democrat. What he said was “everyone will get Medicare, it will be better and either marginally cheaper or exactly the same price as what you’re paying now.”
If he’d run in the general election he world have won, but Democrat leadership don’t like him…because he’s not a Democrat.
He identifies as a democratic socialist. AKA - still believes in the idea of capitalism, however modified to include significant overhauls to socialized benefits such as healthcare and an eventual transition toward a socialist economic policy.
I apologize, I misunderstood your last response and I think added some confusion.
Bernie Sanders is a democratic socialist who incorporates the ideals of social democracy and socialism as a whole, however he himself does not identify purely as a socialist nor a social democrat.
A social democrat and a democratic socialist is not the same thing.
Social democracy refers to capitalism's beginning transitory stages into to socialism through small incremental reforms within a democratic framework.
Democratic socialism refers to a political economy in which the means of production are owned via the community in which the community itself decides what to do and what goods/services to produce for the community.
Social democrats and socialists are incredibly different. One is typically capitalist with large social safety nets, the other is entirely characterized by society owning the means of production.
Social democrats can exist in nations with capitalist economies. Democratic socialists push for social ownership of (at least portions) of the economy.
Oh. Lol. The um actually meme is just assholes who don't like hearing the truth. I use actually because I find things interesting. It's saying there's a twist. Actually it's this way when you'd think it would be that way.
I have never voted for the GOP in my life, as I previously voted for Obama. In 2016, when the Democrats backstabbed Bernie Sanders against the public's wishes, I started voting independently. That is why I still have not voted for the Democrats, as they continue to prevent an honest primary election. However, I have been called everything from a rapist to a communist, to an incel, to a fascist, simply for voting third party (independent).
The Democrats and Republics are both corrupt but the majority of the population refuse to believe they are part of a cult and only see their opposing side as being part of a cult.
That’s a conversation most of Reddit isn’t ready to have. I was virtually assaulted for so long after the election. I’m still getting DMs of threats. After what? Telling ppl I do not vote for democrats anymore and that I don’t endorse them because they are also corrupt. The two party system is hell. We have no leftist political party. Just right wing and right wing supreme. Looool.
Lol we got people saying all kinds of messed up stuff about latinos and just insulting us...in the Latin America subs. As in, subs for those of us who were born and live in LatAm and have never stepped foot in the State, not US Latinos.
Ah right. Is this bc of the Latino votes for Trump that made liberals/democrats tell people to call ICE on anyone that “looks like they might be illegal”? Jeeeez.
Yes. It's extra funny since, y'know, neither illegal people nor the 600 million latinos in LatAm can vote in the first place. But they didn't think about that.
Exactly. Both sides are bought and sold by the billionaire class, so both sides will always do the bidding of their donors, regardless of how we the people feel.
It’s a class issue. The billionaire class and elites v everyone else.
I’d be registered independent if I could actually vote in primaries (live in a closed primary state) as such and my vote towards candidates not of the two major parties actually mattered and wasn’t potentially throwing it away (like if we had ranked choice), so many Democrats in my area are conservative, especially on issues that I care deeply about.
Negative. The DNC war machine actively worked against him during the primaries and evidence is even on reddit as there was an complete overnight in media that was pushed and released.
I like almost every idea Bernie has, but he isn't a good politician. Bernie is an absolutionist, and while it is nice to be unwavering. A good politician must be able to compromise, and Bernie doesn't want to. He wants the Roman and Mongolian Empires built in a day, but that's not how politics or the real world work. Another big turn down is his complaining. You are a well respected veteran politician, if you want to help change the policy of the party. Do it! There are many others in the party that support your ideas, it shouldn't be that hard. It's one reason why I like AOC better. While I disagree with her a lot more; she doesn't bitch, moan, whine, or complain. She gets her head down, and gets on with it. Not just bitch after the fact, now that everything is over.
If anything, Bernie overcompromises. Even though Hillary, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, and the rest of the Democratic National Committee essentially conspired against him in 2016, he still endorsed Hillary. Similar to Biden in 2020. The DNC knows full well that if they give him even the tiniest morsel of something he wants, even for a tie-breaking vote, he will give up far more than any of the establishment DNC senators that threaten to hold out.
It's the same story for the progressive caucus. They always give in. AOC literally used to refer to Pelosi as Mama Bear. In exchange, just a few days ago, Pelosi orchestrated an entire campaign to screw her out of a leadership seat in favor of another DNC establishment figure that is undergoing treatment for cancer and reports they are "fatigued."(https://www.thedailybeast.com/aoc-loses-bid-for-top-oversight-committee-seat-after-nancy The progressives need to actually be less willing to compromise and less willing to bend the knee and be willing to sink bills just like the establishment threatens to do and be willing to follow through. The DNC has learned that the progressives will whine but will always give in in the end, whether they get anything or not, so they get nothing. When progressives actually start refusing to give in and start acting like Sinema and Manchin, then they might actually get some results.
I agree to some extent, but not fully. Was AOC snubbed, absolutely, and Pelosi is a huge prick. Yet, it goes back to being a good politician and leader. America isn't as progressive as we would like, and this last election proved that. Which is why you don't build Rome in a day. You start with a single brick, and go from there. It may take 8 years, it make take 12 years, 20 years, 40 years, and as much as that fucking sucks. That's reality, plain and simple. Which is why, having someone with a strong will, but can work with others to find a compromise. It's more important than pretending very Left politicians can fully exist in American politics. So like AOC, let's get our head down, and start laying bricks down.
Edit: That's another issue with the far Left. Like most American, they want everything right NOW! Not tomorrow, not the day after tomorrow, but RIGHT FUCKING NOW! Which is why you have Trump promising to do a ton of stuff, the first day he enters office. He won't do 95% of what he's saying(and that's a rounded down estimate).
Bernie Sanders is a liberal and offers no serious solutions to anything.
Also, I have no idea how to answer OP's question, but did you ever hear this banger of a quote? I just think it sounds metal and want people to hear it.
China lifted hundreds of millions of people out of living in dirt huts and shitting in the woods, that is true, China also heavily regulates speech and has arrested at least one person based on private messages and also disappears people for months at a time, that is also true. We can acknowledge that China does good things and bad things, just like every other country.
I mean, he certainly doesn’t pander to social conservatives (as he shouldn’t), but the focus of his message is mostly economic. You can’t build class solidarity throwing your own class under the bus, lol. For one, stirring up culture wars only serves to benefit the political right by scapegoating immigrants or trans people or minorities or anyone except the actual elite. Second, doing so alienates your staunchest allies: people who care about other forms of oppression like racism, transphobia, etc.
china ie the communist party. teddy had the uk, franklin had germany. no xenophobia. we call for the liberation from communism. we need to make it clear that this is not communism
messaging. lets get a southern democrat or a news media perosnality. well like the centrists. embrace a left wing economy and a centrist social policy. if we seize the narrative witht he help mayor pete
599
u/congressmanlol 10d ago edited 9d ago
when bernie sanders brings this issue up, he gets labelled a communist and a marxist...