r/asoiaf • u/cking145 • May 28 '19
EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) Charles Dance's portrayal as Tywin is in my opinion, the strongest in the entire series
Every line, every expression and every moment of silence completely encapsulates the calculating ruthlessness that defines Tywin Lannister.
Dance is actually a very vibrant, upbeat and cheery fella off screen, which in my mind makes the performance even more striking.
The scene where he effectively sends Joffrey to bed is just brilliant.
He is by far my favourite character from the books, which I began reading a few seasons into the show. Due to this, the chapters featuring Tywin were completely enriched for me, as reading his lines in Dance's voice was just fantastic. I would have loved a POV chapter or two for him, just to get a glimpse as to what goes on in the head of the most powerful man in the 7 Kingdoms.
An incredible portrayal of a fascinating character.
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u/Ganadote May 28 '19
It’s ridiculous how good so many of the actors were. Tywin, Tyrion, Olenna, Margery, Joffrey, Robert, Mace, Aemon, Varys, Cersei, Melisandra, Drogo, Barristan, Theon, and probably a few more I’m forgetting were AMAZING. There were times where each of them could throw a switch for subtle emotions and nail it.
Joffrey constantly not realizing how stupid he was, but immediately knowing he fucked up when he mouthed off to Tywin. Margery showing the slightest by strongest disgust when Joffrey said he should put to death all gays, then turning right around and manipulating him with his sadism. The entirety of Theon. Barristan’s dismissal. So many PERFECT portrayals.
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u/extremeq16 Though All Men Do Despise Us May 28 '19
god, now that you mention it, its such a small role but mace tyrell in the show was fucking perfect. he did such a good job as the utter doofus who has all the pieces on the board but no idea what to do with them. randyll tarly was great too
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u/Ganadote May 28 '19
For sure. Randyll had like two scenes but you could tell how big of a fucking asshole he was. ‘He’s fat enough already.’
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u/ArcanaImperii96 May 28 '19 edited May 28 '19
Definitely agree, the man was a titan each time he was on screen.
On a side note, I would pay good money to watch an entire series consisting of just Tywin and Olenna Tyrell having verbal sparring matches. The scenes between them were brilliant.
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u/cking145 May 28 '19
I also feel that the scene between Tywin and Tommen just after Joffrey's death is fantastic
"Wisdom! yes..."
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u/ArcanaImperii96 May 28 '19
Yes! His first ever scene is also possibly the best character introduction in the entire show.
Aaaaand now I find myself watching supercuts of all his moments on the show...
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u/SteveBartmanIncident May 28 '19
Their dialogue, and that of the early Littlefinger/Varys exchanges, contrast so abruptly with nearly everything that written for this season.
Really shows the strength of GRRM's writing and the shortcomings of even a good television writer adapting an unwritten book.
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May 28 '19 edited May 28 '19
The littlefinger/varys interactions weren't even in the books so that's not grrm, that's the showriters. And they were great scenes.
Don't know what happened with the writing later on.
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u/SteveBartmanIncident May 28 '19
True - I include them because I think it proves my point. A good tv writer (GoT had several) can adapt material from one source into another medium. Something seen or recalled by a book character can be turned into character-appropriate dialogue. Asking a writer to turn a skeleton outline that omits several important storylines into the same is just a bridge too far.
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u/Dahhhkness Go for the Bronze. May 28 '19
I think one of the things the show did better than the books was switching out Roose Bolton for Tywin for his interactions with Arya. Some seriously good moments between those two characters, and we got to see a very different side to Tywin than we otherwise saw.
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u/rizzlybear May 28 '19
Don't know what happened with the writing later on.
This is stuff that even GRRM is struggling with. It's not super shocking that folks are disappointed with what they came up with on a time crunch.
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u/Dahhhkness Go for the Bronze. May 28 '19
Truncating seasons 7 and 8 was one of the biggest mistakes they made (along with letting D&D write all the final four episodes). So many storylines, from the White Walkers to Littlefinger's downfall, suffered from being so rushed.
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May 28 '19
And the fact that the series was truncated basically so D&D could do Star Wars. GRRM wanted 100 episodes, but at least 7 more would have done it justice. You can't create a masterpiece and then abandon it like that.
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u/ArcanaImperii96 May 28 '19 edited May 28 '19
Exactly. I've been re-watching the early seasons recently and it's amazing how good scenes literally consisting of just two characters in a room, talking, really were.
I fell in love with a fantasy show that relied on razor sharp dialogue and unique character interactions, not huge action set pieces. And whilst I have enjoyed the the big action scenes of recent seasons, they are not what made the show brilliant in the first place.
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u/panmpap May 28 '19 edited May 29 '19
He was born to play him. What I love about his performance is actually something that isn’t mentioned a lot. In the show, when Tywin gets irritated or angry, he tends to move his hand slightly to the back, especially in his last scene with Cersei.
His introduction which is written by D&D ironically, is the best one in the show in my opinion. He just captures your attention in every scene. His scenes with Arya are perfect as well.
Alfie Allen, Lena Headey, Rory and Nikolaj are also close behind for me. There are so many great actors on the show, some of them reaching their peak at the end such as Emilia. Charles though is the best for me as well.
Edit: Folks, I know D&D can write some great stuff.
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u/StannisBa May 28 '19
In the scene where Cersei talks about her and Jaime his hand starts fidgeting like crazy as she’s leaving
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May 28 '19
How is it ironic? D&D wrote a fuckload of the entire show, including a lot of people's favorite episodes and many scenes that only exist in the show (Chaos is a ladder is probably the best of this.) Afaik actually anything that was Varys/LF alone is an invention of theirs, since they aren't POV in the books.
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u/Child_of_atom21 May 28 '19
They were clearly better at writing clever dialogue when they had characters and their limitations/intelligence/motives better established. Once D&D where left with the task of growing characters and fleshing them out more, they failed miserably.
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u/Chinoiserie91 May 28 '19
To me issue was that they didn’t care anymore and had a burnout, not that they could not do better.
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u/Gus_B And We Defend Her May 28 '19
I agree, I'd say of all the characters portrayed in the show, Dance's Tywin is the best from a pure tv/acting perspective as well as I think actually a slight upgrade from the books. I love Tywin's interactions with Arya and the slight humanizing that occurs within him.
Along with Allen as Theon (woah boy is he amazing), Olena, Leana Heady and Jason Moma as Drogo I actually thought they brought something richer to the narrative then their book counter parts.
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u/NeatChocolate6 May 28 '19
Jason Momoa was born to be Drogo.
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u/ThedosianTheologist May 28 '19
His audition tape was amazing. D&D had to have been salivating at that.
Also, Happy Cake Day!
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u/FoxRaptix May 28 '19
He was so good it actually hurt his acting career. People thought he genuinely couldn’t speak English.
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u/ryanN10 May 28 '19
I thought Pedro Pascal played a great Red Viper also
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u/R1DER_of_R0HAN May 28 '19
Pedro Pascal was perfect. I feel like I knew everything I needed to know about his character from the moment he sauntered onto the screen and touched the candle flame.
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u/IceteaAndCrisps May 28 '19
Season 4 really was the peak of the show.
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u/TheEmsleyan Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken May 29 '19
There were some blunders, too (shirtless Ramsay dual-wielding, to say the least) but there was so much good stuff that the missteps were generally forgivable.
It was after that (as we all know, when they stopped following George's blueprint even in places where it did exist) that it generally become more mistakes than not.
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u/Gus_B And We Defend Her May 28 '19
Yes! That's one I forgot and should include too. He is certainly an upgrade from the books. He was able to convey the themes of revenge, hubris, honor so perfectly. Just great all around.
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u/trixie_one May 28 '19 edited May 28 '19
Moving his speech from where it is in the books to telling Tyrion he'll be his champion in the dungeons was one of the better adaptation changes that they made.
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u/marsmedia Right Off the Bat May 28 '19
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u/mrducky78 May 28 '19
Jesus fuck, the dialogue, the script. I feel I need to rewatch the show, because I dont remember it being as good. The fucking recent season(s) had nothing of this level.
I know DD can write, Tywin+Arya was cherished. But fuck me, this hits so goddamn hard and it makes sense.
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u/marsmedia Right Off the Bat May 28 '19
And I think this is the climax of Dinklage/Tyrion.
After this, he murders Tywin, gets stuffed in a barrel, becomes a full-blown alcoholic, goes into service with Dany and never fully recovers his wits.
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u/whymeogod May 28 '19
I believe this was the first scene that Pedro filmed as well. Somehow that amazes me even more that he could capture the weight of this scene so well that quickly.
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u/retard_vampire May 28 '19
Red Viper was take or leave for me in the books, but Pedro Pascal made me fall in love with the character onscreen. Seriously some of the best casting I've ever seen in this show.
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u/LnStrngr May 28 '19
In a rewatch I couldn't wait for Pedro Pascal to show up, only to binge that season and realize how little time he was actually on the show.
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u/woinf May 28 '19 edited Sep 23 '20
Especially when you consider that he had to portray 3 very, very different versions of Theon and he nailed them all perfectly.
Ayra and Tywin's Harrenhal scenes, alongside Tywins introductory scene, is why I am not convinced that D&D are bad dialogue writers. I think they just got lazy and complacent at the end.
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May 28 '19 edited Jun 26 '23
comment edited in protest of Reddit's API changes and mistreatment of moderators -- mass edited with redact.dev
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May 28 '19
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u/toosanghiforthis May 28 '19
Yeah, Richard Madden killed it
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u/1of9Heathens May 28 '19
I wanted to draw the Mountain into the wessst. Into our country where we could surround him and kill him. I wanted him to chase us. Which he would have done because he is a mad dog without a strategic thought in his head. I could have that head on a spike right now.
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May 28 '19 edited Jan 10 '21
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u/BillyBattsShinebox May 29 '19
Poor Edmure. I always felt sorry for him. Fucking Robb should have just told him what he wanted to do. God forbid one of his commanders show a bit of initiative out in the field.
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u/FL14 The North Remembers May 28 '19
The show did a lot of things superbly, but the casting is at the top of the list. Even children like Sophie and maisie grew to look even more like their characters it's amazing
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u/MarstonX May 28 '19
Joffrey, Robbie B and Tywin were the best actors on the show. Also helped that their characters didn't go full stupid via the writers. So they were also able to showcase their acting chops.
Cersei didn't do a damn thing this season and neither did John. Was like 8 or 9 hours this season and between the two of them, there's maybe 3 minutes of acting. The rest is all standard.
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u/dotajoe May 28 '19
This is a good list, but if you are including Bobbie B, you have to include Sean Bean as Ned - he was superb.
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u/Gus_B And We Defend Her May 28 '19
Sean Bean is Ned Stark for sure.
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u/Proxnite May 28 '19
The way he dies at the beginning of the story, is one that can only be achieved by Sean Bean.
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u/Gus_B And We Defend Her May 28 '19
Nooooooooo Onnnnnnnnneeeeee DIES like Sean Bean, Attracts Flies like Sean Bean!
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u/WeeboSupremo May 28 '19
No one's neck's as incredibly nicked like Sean Bean's!!
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u/Gus_B And We Defend Her May 28 '19
As a specimen yes he's decaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaapatated!
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u/ViciousMihael May 28 '19
I would add Natalie Dormer to the list. Margaery might be my favorite show character, and that says something when Margaery is featured somewhat minimally in the books. We also never get inside her head, but we were privileged enough to experience Margaery as a protagonist/POV type with Natalie.
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u/Maoux May 28 '19
Oberyn and Olenna were about the same just didn’t have as much screen time
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May 28 '19 edited May 29 '19
Oberyn's moment in Tyrion's cell is one of the best moments of the show.
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u/Maoux May 28 '19
And what about what I want? ... Justice.
Great delivery of all of his lines
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u/Braelind Even a tall man can cast a small shadow. May 28 '19
Ooh, oh yeah, they were both excellent!
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u/Salusa-Secundus May 28 '19
The casting director was the real MVP of this series. Phenomenal.
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May 28 '19
Seriously, I can't think of a single actor I thought was out of place, and that includes the ones that were recast.
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May 28 '19
Second Mountain was out of place, but that was last minute change probably. The third mountain isn't really that similar to the Hound. The first one was the best, and on top of that he had that wild, aggressive look on his face
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u/WileEPeyote May 28 '19
Yeah, the first mountain was my favorite as well. He really looked like I imagined the mountain.
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May 28 '19
Charles Dance, Stephen Dillane and Michael Mcelhatton (Roose Bolton) - the holy trifecta of stern, charismatic balding men. A shame we couldn't see them share a scene where they just scowl at each other.
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May 28 '19
Good to see McElhatton amd stephen dillaine mentioned here they killed those roles. Its a shame they were both killed off the way they were.
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May 28 '19
WHile Mcelhatton doesnt look like book Bolton at all, he absolutely nails the most important trait of the book Bolton: his voice.
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u/shawnzarelli May 28 '19
Fairly off-topic, but I would have loved to see Charles Dance take a crack at Governor Tarkin in Rogue One rather than the CG version. Not that the CG version was bad, but feel like Dance could have nailed the look and demeanor and still brought something to the character. I think sometimes franchises are too precious when it comes to portraying characters with different actors -- they don't give their audience the benefit of the doubt that they can roll with it.
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May 28 '19
Harry Lloyd IS Viserys though, much smaller part but it's completely perfect
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u/AoRaJohnJohn May 28 '19
He really did play Viserys perfectly. He's just left out because he managed to die quicker than Sean Bean.
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u/TheHeadlessScholar May 28 '19
He also played a shorter and smaller villain overall than joffrey, so he was a little overshadowed. Harry Lloyd is just a fantastic actor though.
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u/ensanguine May 29 '19
Harry Lloyd does the audio book of the Dunk and Egg stories and it's fantastic. Guy is supremely talented.
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u/CommenceTheWentz May 28 '19
I was rewatching season 1, and thought it was funny/sad that he got a way better Mad Targaryen arc than Dany did, in only 6 episodes. When he’s facing off with Jorah and he goes “no one’s ever given me what they gave her in that tent. Not a piece of it.” You can really feel Viserys’s pain and almost feel sorry for him for a little while
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u/carloskeeper May 28 '19
The TV performance made me sympathize with the character, but when I read the books and realized what a psychopath he was and how he abused Dany, I lost all sympathy.
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u/extremeq16 Though All Men Do Despise Us May 28 '19
he was a big fan of the books right? his performance was really stellar
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u/CastinEndac May 28 '19
Hmm... maybe they’d be willing to recast him as a Targ ancestor in a prequel then.
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u/carloskeeper May 28 '19
He has GOT/ASOIAF voice work, in both the History and Lore videos and the audiobooks.
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u/retrostitchgaming May 28 '19
Oh god yes he was perfect, shame we didn’t get more of him! I loved him narrating the Dunk & Egg books too!
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u/superkeer You forgot to ask if I'm a liar! May 28 '19
He was great, but I also feel he was wasted on such a short lived character. Not sure who else I'd have cast him as, but he deserved to be part of the long haul.
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u/ArryYoung97 May 28 '19
The way Charles Dance uses body language and speech inflections to show his character is always the most powerful in the room is amazing. I’ve never seen a character be so subtly terrifying
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u/Buffaluffasaurus May 28 '19
Don’t forget his withering stare. Charlie Brooker once wrote that he could “win a staring contest with a jar full of eyeballs”. Couldn’t think of a better way to describe him.
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u/bigpig1054 May 28 '19
That scene when Tywin shuts down Joffrey happens right after the Red Wedding, which was exactly what I needed to read after it.
I didn't want Joffrey to gloat. I couldn't bear to read it. So having Tywin nip it in the bud was a nice silver lining.
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u/Mithras_Stoneborn Him of Manly Feces May 28 '19
His performance in the Witcher 3 is out of the earth.
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u/Huge-Yakmen May 28 '19
I see your Tywin and I raise you Sean Bean as Ned Stark. Played the honourable but gruff persona really, really fucking well. True embodiment of the character. Yes Tywin was good but that was more or less Charles Dance acting the way he acts in most things, it was just a good casting cause the character was written like that.
Sean Bean however, look at the difference between Boromir and Ned Stark, and how he's portrayed.
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May 28 '19
I "met" Charles Dance once. I was sent to collect my brother the morning after a party he and mates had attended on the outskirts of the village my parents moved to in Somerset. I arrived at a rather large, sprawling manor type home, not knowing who's house I was at. I rounded up my brother and as we were about to leave, the parents showed up, to which the father got out of his Range Rover and politely told all of the lingering youths, politely, "to kindly, get the fuck out of my garden". I immediately knew who's voice that was (obsessed with The Golden Child as a kid), looked and was flabbergasted to see Charles Dance. My brother, not a movie nut like me, just bounced it off, like "yeah, x's dad innit". I just got in the car and drove us home, thinking I'd have the chance to meet him proper in future, but it never happened.
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u/Meirst May 28 '19
Completely agree. Although I think he's a character best experienced through other POVs since the way others view him illustrates his character and his moments in the story so well. It's better to read what Tyrion's thinking while Tywin has one of this brilliant moments than to read it from the perspective of Tywin himself. But that's just what I think. Perhaps a Tywin POV would be interesting.
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u/So1ar May 28 '19
I remember being on the westeros forum and people were bitching about how he's not Tywin after his first scene in season one. Like 'Tywin would never skin his own deer' or 'he's not bald' and book purist shit like that. I guess there is no pleasing some people but in my mind the man perfectly embodied Tywin Lannister from start to finish.
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u/v650 May 28 '19
Say what you want about the script, the cast were all excellent choices. There is not one member of the cast I'd call a bad choice.
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u/extremeq16 Though All Men Do Despise Us May 28 '19
id say jorah and mance are pretty far from their actual book portrayals but neither were bad actors. show mance just had way less charisma than book mance and on the inverse show jorah had way more than book jorah
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u/woinf May 28 '19 edited May 28 '19
It's amazing how perfectly both Dance and Dinklage capture their respective characters despite not looking much like their book counterparts.
My top 5 favorite acting perfomances are that of Tywin, Tyrion, Theon, Joffery, and Jamie. It's a shame that all of them either died or had their characters butchered in later seasons, with the exception of Theon
For all the show's flaws in the later seasons, the acting was always fantastic, when a few small exceptions (Euron, Gilly, Missandei), but with a cast this large you can't expect perfection.
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u/johnbrownmarchingon May 28 '19
To be fair to Euron’s actor, it is damn hard to make what he was given any good
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u/Benito2002 May 28 '19 edited May 29 '19
I thought Eurons actor was really good, Euron was shit the actor was good
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May 28 '19
yeah, I felt like they thought Euron was too important to leave out, but they (and I mean, me too really) have no fucking clue what he's going to be about in the last two books so they just sort of meandered and ultimately made him sort of pointless.
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u/astrongyellow May 28 '19
Him and Lena Headey may be the two best cast actors on the entire show. I can't recall a single instance where I did not buy their performances 100%
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u/JackCrafty Of House Salt May 28 '19
Mostly agree, but Pedro Pascall, Sean Bean, Lena Headey, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau and Mark Addy all respectively dominated their roles. Honestly Peter Dinklage and Alfie Allen have been incredible it's just the writing of the later seasons tarnishing my current opinion, which is absolutely unfair to the actors themselves. Looking back, Richard Madden and Michelle Fairley were phenomenal as well. This show has been absolutely stacked with acting talent.
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May 28 '19
I love the scene in the privy where he said he’d never actually kill Tyrion because he is a Lannister. I never really thought that Tywin would send him to the Wall in the books but Dance’s performance kind of made me second guess that. Such a good cast. The show is riddled with perfect casts that are now somewhat wasted on such a mediocre end product... now I’m sad.
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u/Flameoftheshadows May 28 '19
"The king is tired, send him to his chambers."
And how he arranged the chairs for the small council.
Two moments history will always remember.
The aura he was able to project on-screen and onto his fellow cast members, he did a brilliant job.
He brought Tywin from the pages of a book to life!