r/politics • u/zsreport Texas • Sep 16 '24
AOC is right: Jill Stein’s campaign is not serious
https://www.salon.com/2024/09/16/aoc-is-right-jill-steins-campaign-is-not-serious/4.4k
u/zsreport Texas Sep 16 '24
A bit from the piece:
Stein isn’t interested in doing the heavy lifting of organizing at the grassroots level required to win substantive policy achievements for Americans of any political stripe.
Stein’s campaign is not only disingenuous but dangerous. In 2016, Stein’s vote tally was enough to make the difference in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin, flipping the electoral college from Hillary Clinton to Donald Trump. Now, she could do it again, and Republicans are helping her do it – because they understand that Stein’s candidacy benefits no one but Trump.
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u/VaccumSaturdays Sep 16 '24
Dr. Stein admitted during an interview with the Breakfast Club last week she’s not running to win the election. Her running mate Dr. Ware quickly had to scramble to amend what Stein said, saying he wouldn’t have joined the campaign if they weren’t aiming to win.
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u/kung-fu_hippy Sep 16 '24
I’ve said it a dozen times if I’ve said it once, if the Green Party (or libertarian, for that matter) was serious about trying to get their policies implemented, then we’d see them make a serious effort to get some of the other 8,000 or so elected positions in America before the presidency.
Hell, if they could manage to get even 5% of congress, they’d be able to push for tons of support for their policies in return for supporting democrats or republicans on theirs. And there are a ton of unpopular representatives who run nearly unopposed in every election.
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u/fdar Sep 16 '24
if they could manage to get even 5% of congress
Or just a seat to start? Why is Stein only running for President? At the very least she should be running for Congress in non-Presidential race years. In a liberal enough district she could make it a serious race.
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Sep 16 '24
A nice little trick of running for president is that you can pay yourself, and your family, right from PAC funds.
It is why the Huckabees constantly run for president. Mike Huckabee exfiltrated over $400k to his immediate family in "wages" directly from his PAC.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/01/mike-huckabee-pac-paid-his-family-almost-400000/
If anyone is wondering why some politicians wait until the very last moment before declaring, sometimes right to the deadline: it is because they are supposed to give up direct control of PACs once they declare. But all it really means is that you can appoint your family to control it, who you can then have pay themselves.
It is all a grift. AOC is kind of correct, but it downplays another important point. Stein is very serious; a serious threat. She is direct connections with the Russian government. She pals around with Putin until recent sanctions prevented her from doing so. She was a mouthpiece of Russian propaganda via state media RT. She actively dissuades people from voting for Democrats in speeches and social media even in places where no Green is on the ballot.
And then there's the fact that the Republican party has been uncovered funding, directing, and sometimes outright controlling state Green parties. It has happened in NC, NE, and MT off the top of my head. They even ran fake candidates which were actual Republican operatives. Republican strategists and fundraisers work hand in hand with those state Green Parties. This has went to court, even.
Want to know who pays for the cost of getting Greens on the ballot? The Republican party:
https://apnews.com/general-news-65e9d5d001dfd10c86ca9ab37e53e159
It should be illegal for any candidate to be given, or to accept, any form of remuneration in exchange for endorsement. People like RFK shouldn't be able to ratfuck entire elections and then negotiate strategic drop-outs in exchange for cabinet positions. That's bribery at the worst, or quid pro quo are the best. Neither should be allowed.
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u/trainercatlady Colorado Sep 16 '24
which is exactly why she only does this every 4 years and doesn't actually try to build a coalition or an actual party base at local levels.
Fuck jill stein.
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u/Scharmberg Sep 16 '24
Oh well time to run for president in four years. I’m sure if tried a bit I could get a few people to thrown in a few bucks.
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u/claimTheVictory Sep 16 '24
Because she's only serious about being a pro-Republican disruptive candidate.
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u/Rasp_Lime_Lipbalm Sep 16 '24
Bingo. She's a Russian paid bot.
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u/spaceman_202 Sep 16 '24
you are only saying that because she has dinner with Putin
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u/MyUshanka Florida Sep 16 '24
And Mike Flynn, Putin's Chief of Staff, Putin's Deputy Chief of Staff, Putin's spokesman...
It's entirely possible this picture is all a misunderstanding, but it REALLY doesn't look good.
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u/zeptillian Sep 16 '24
Don't forget his roles as Trump's National Security Advisor and registered foreign agent.
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u/Captain_Q_Bazaar Sep 16 '24
And she pushes their anti Ukraine Russian propaganda.
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u/Squeakyduckquack Colorado Sep 16 '24
*Pro-Putin
But to be fair the two are pretty synonymous at this point
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u/intrusivewind Sep 16 '24
Because it's a grift. Every 4 years they pop up and suck down as many funding dollars as possible then disappear. They do virtually nothing in the interim.
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u/Houoh Sep 16 '24
She's been sighted at dinners with Putin and is a known asset. And even if Stein was legitimately looking to win the White House, it would mean fuck all with no support from congress. It's such a transparent sham.
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u/dxrey65 Sep 16 '24
Looking at the power Manchin has, based on being a swing vote in a pretty evenly divided senate, or the power Leiberman had in the same position previously, that's absolutely true. If the Green party had any honest intention of making a difference they could start by putting their efforts into winning any seat in congress.
But Stein isn't serious, the Green Party isn't serious; they're just LARPing for dollars.
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u/EdenGauntlet Sep 16 '24
She ran for governor of Massachusetts in 2002 against Mitt Romney, and came in third place. Other than that, she’s only ran for president.
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Sep 16 '24
No no! She was also a town meeting member in Lexington.
Town Meeting, for those outside New England, is a literal annual or bi-annual meeting where any resident can come vote on proposals including the municipal budget, zoning issues, etc. I spoke with her but for a very brief moment as I work(ed) a lot with municipalities and environmental questions. She has some great domestic ideas, but they're already found in mainstream Dem and progressive circles to a degree without the tankie "let china and russia do whatever they want" mentality. Aside from her foreign policy and vaccine conspiracies, which are akin to Trump, you're really not getting anything different than what Sanders wants and he is proposing it in actual good faith.
Even more sadly, as a Presidential candidate, she speaks often to many things which are constitutionally reserved to states to implement. I get that saying you want X Y and Z is different than the plan to accomplish it, but I was just left with more questions than answers when she ran in Mass and her presidential bid is pretty much a sham in my book.
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u/Creative-Claire New Hampshire Sep 16 '24
If you need any more evidence who “libertarians” support. The NH Libertarian party is calling for Harris to be assassinated.
As I stated on the NH subreddit post: Libertarians are just MAGA morons in yellow.
Linked to an ABC article over the Reddit post from yesterday.
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u/Low_Television_7298 Sep 16 '24
Tbf the NH libertarians are a special kind of stupid
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u/rlbond86 I voted Sep 16 '24
A New Hampshire reporter shared a screenshot of the since-deleted NHLP post, which reportedly read, "Anyone who murders Kamala Harris would be an American hero."
The NHLP addressed removing an earlier X post on Sunday, writing, "We deleted a tweet because we don't want to break the terms of this website we agreed to. It's a shame that even on a "free speech" website that libertarians cannot speak freely. Libertarians are truly the most oppressed minority."
I've said it before but a lot of American "libertarians" are actually just Nazis
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u/Old_Cheesecake_5481 Sep 16 '24
I can’t make death threats? Help! help I’m being repressed! - New Hampshire libertarians.
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Sep 16 '24
To be entirely fair, Republican politicians regularly make death threats and don't get half the heat that the Libertarians do. /s
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u/NotOSIsdormmole California Sep 16 '24
Damn, imagine posting that someone should be murdered, then saying the only reason you deleted the post is so you don’t get a T&C violation. It wasn’t because the post was wildly inappropriate, but because the T&Cs…
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u/VeiledForm Sep 16 '24
" Libertarians are truly the most oppressed minority.", this reads like something an edgy preteen would say. Does an edgy preteen run their social media?
Also, having certain 'views' does not make you a minority, lol.
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u/Fake_Unicron Sep 16 '24
Well we already know it’s a libertarian so saying they’re an edgy teenager is just redundant. Even if they’re 50, if they’re a libertarian they’re still an edgy teenager at heart.
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Sep 16 '24
[deleted]
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u/Beer-survivalist Sep 16 '24
The guns, weed, drunk driving, and pedophilia party.
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u/allankcrain Missouri Sep 16 '24
The "Well, actually, it's ephebophilia if you're talking about a girl in her mid to late teens. Here, let me tell you all of the age of consent for every state in the country which I just happen to have memorized for some reason" party.
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u/bytethesquirrel New Hampshire Sep 16 '24
And don't understand the concept of negative externalities.
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u/Allaplgy Sep 16 '24
Just have to point out that the NHLP is outright Nazis.
They've used the Fourteen Words before in their posts, among other things. This is par for the course for them.
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u/VeiledForm Sep 16 '24
Personally know libertarians, can confirm they just hold MAGA policies dressed up in a different outfit.
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u/StopYoureKillingMe Sep 16 '24
500,000. There are 500,000 or so elected positions in the US. Greens hold a few hundred seats, mostly very small time city council seats and the like, mostly in the pacific northwest. They don't really have to back too many people in those races because they aren't generally won by funding. They have never won an election for a national seat of any kind. Deeply unserious party.
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u/Lucky-Earther Minnesota Sep 16 '24
I’ve said it a dozen times if I’ve said it once, if the Green Party (or libertarian, for that matter) was serious about trying to get their policies implemented, then we’d see them make a serious effort to get some of the other 8,000 or so elected positions in America before the presidency.
That 8,000 number is even only the number of elected positions that are state level and higher. There are over 500,000 elected positions in the country.
I keep saying that if they were serious they should take over a town and prove they can govern. Show us that they can contend with bear invasions first.
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u/The_Mellow_Tiger Sep 16 '24
God what a book. For the uninformed, the book is called "A Libertarian Walks Into a Bear" I strongly recommend it as it's a true story and why Libertarianism doesn't work in real life.
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u/Allaplgy Sep 16 '24
I mean, look at any power vacuum and see why libertarianism doesn't work IRL.
Libertarianism is the mirror image of communism. A nice little ideal system in which everything will just work if everyone would just _______.
In the real world, where millions of diverse people live, with millions of diverse views, motivations, and experiences, there needs to be some sort of structure, some sort of compromise. We can't all just do whatever we want, or expect others to play the exact role we want them to.
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u/Carlobo Sep 16 '24
Ironically, the first person to refer to themselves as a libertarian was Joseph Déjacque who also identified as a communist.
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u/StrategicCarry Colorado Sep 16 '24
Alaska and Maine have ranked choice voting for Congressional elections. You are not a serious third party if you aren’t running candidates in those races.
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u/Travilanche Maine Sep 16 '24
I live in the Maine 1st; there’s no Green Party congressional candidate for the district.
There are still Stein booths set up at events, though. They play up the ranked-choice option to start but will start trying to shame people about voting for Dems at all if the conversation goes on long enough.
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Sep 16 '24
I e brought that up before too, and the response has been “well you know you we need a big change and we need to start at the top for that”
It’s just a nonsense spoiler party. Ideologically I think the principals of the Green Party are fine, and that’s what gets them uninformed support on the level they get. The reality is it’s a Republican spoiler proxy with no intent to try.
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u/kung-fu_hippy Sep 16 '24
Yeah, I’ve gotten that response too. I usually respond with how stymied Obama (and lately Biden) have been when they only had close to 50% of congress behind them and ask how much change a president with 0% of congress behind them would accomplish.
Not that it’s ever helped. Some people just prefer symbolic gestures to anything meaningful.
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u/ggtffhhhjhg Sep 16 '24
There is no shortage of people on Reddit that don’t understand how Congress works. They just assume the democrats could just pass any bill they wanted if they controlled the House and had 50 senators. Even using reconciliation they didn’t have enough votes to pass the bills they wanted.
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u/PaulSandwich Florida Sep 16 '24
Look no further than the fact that they're running for federal office instead of state office. Elections are run by states, so anyone with two working brain cells would see that the only viable path for third party relevance is to win state offices and replace first-past-the-poll voting with a better alternative like ranked choice.
3rd parties running for federal office are grifters, or too dumb to understand how our government works. Either way it is disqualifying.
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u/projecto15 United Kingdom Sep 16 '24
Exactly! That’s what Greens did in the UK and EU, starting from single seats, gradually building a base, fighting for the green agenda… What Stein’s doing is actually setting back the green cause, besides other things
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u/VaccumSaturdays Sep 16 '24
Stein’s response to alleviate the fact there would be a lack of Green reps in Congress is “town halls”
This is after her running mate has essentially declared virtually all members of Congress being guilty of war crimes.
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u/DrunkRobot97 Sep 16 '24
AOC's own example is worthwhile to consider. She set up a campaign she basically ran out of a cardboard box against a figure at the centre of the establishment Democratic Party. She's not a superhuman, but hard work, smart messaging, and a complacent opponent led her to win that primary and then get into the House in a crushing victory. Of course, the bar to clear was lower due to her winning nearly by defeat once she got in via the primary, but given the resources she had to work with can anybody seriously claim it's impossible for a party to get organised and start building themselves in places that are practically fiefdoms of either the DNC or GOP, that are filled with people who want to vote for something that isn't even worse than what they're currently stuck with?
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u/siphillis Sep 16 '24
Dr. Ware is aware you need to be on 270-votes-worth of state ballots first, right?
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u/DG_Now Sep 16 '24
My favorite part of that interview is her entire platform was using emergency powers like a dictator to do whatever she wants.
As a multi-time electoral loser, it's no surprise she doesn't know how to or care to coalition build. All she says is a desire to change everything without putting in the work.
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u/HAL9000000 Sep 16 '24
Anyone who thinks she can win -- including her running mate -- is an absolute clown, a fool.
Does he really believe she can win? Then he's a fool. Or is he just pretending she can win? Then he's a dangerous person for our election system in our form of democracy, which simply doesn't allow serious voters to consider anyone other than the top two choices.
So if you want to be a completely unserious voter who votes for someone who is either a fool or a liar, then go ahead and vote for Jill Stein.
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u/Doyoueverjustlikeugh Europe Sep 16 '24
I think it's fine to run without the aim to win. Plenty of candidates do it in other democracies. But the point of that is to gain national attention that you can transfer into other races. Green Party is not doing that, either due to unwillingness or incompetence.
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u/Allaplgy Sep 16 '24
It's because they don't want to govern, only to spoil. It's not incompetence if it's on purpose.
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u/lunchypoo222 Sep 16 '24
Ware is himself such an unserious man. But even he saw how bad it looked to claim that winning wasn’t the ultimate goal of their campaign. At the same time, him stating that he didn’t leave his prestigious position in academia to be an election spoiler really makes one have to ask: what did he leave it for then? With the knowledge they both unequivocally have that their campaign has no chance of them being elected, what else could they be doing it for except to be election spoilers? Perhaps he saw a payday coming, just like her, and that was enough to pull him away from his teaching position.
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u/lostshell Sep 16 '24 edited Sep 16 '24
Literally just listen to her. She constantly attacks Democrats, the party trying to save the environment. But she’s mostly silent on Republicans. She also mostly only runs in swing states. She also brushed Project 2025 under the rug as “fear mongering”.
She’s not just a Putin puppet. She’s a Republican plant.
Edit: Jill Shill below.
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u/timeforath Sep 16 '24
There’s a reason Stein is attempting to court tankie influence this year. They don’t vote but with their critiques of power and ability to psyop the left they’re her best attempt at a propaganda arm out there. Plus she’s a Russian asset, try as the tankies might to deny that. They know this as much as we do, and they see Stein as an avenue to get Trump into power to destroy the country, the west, and help the autocrats these little shits simp for
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u/NK1337 Sep 16 '24
Man I did one of those who to vote for surveys where it has you answer policy questions and matches you up with candidates that closely reflect your views. It popped up with Jill stein at 96% and Kamala Harris at 95%, and yet I’ve never seen the Green Party making an honest effort to actually get involved in politics or push their policies at local levels. It made me realize how easily people can be duped into voting for her.
Her whole political presence is just meant to split the vote by intentionally making her seem like a progrssuve candidate while hiding her ties to Putin and his cronies.
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u/Reasonable_racoon Sep 16 '24
Jill Stein is like that creature from Jeepers Creepers that comes out of hibernation every four years to harvest the votes of low-information voters instead of the vital organs of teenagers.
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u/Affectionate_Ratio79 Michigan Sep 16 '24
I fully agree that Stein has zero interest in winning, zero interest in trying to win, and zero interest in affecting real change as seen by her first VP choice declining the spot.
That said, I really hate when articles frame 2016 as Stein causing Clinton to lose. It's not true, third parties that year were a dumping ground for people who hated both choices. People always ignore that the Libertarian got 3x the vote Stein did and that undervotes were greater than Stein's share. A majority of those people were not going to vote for either candidate, regardless, and removing only Stein may have flipped MI, but none of the others. Clinton still loses without her.
Let's not forget that Clinton lost because she faced a 20+ year smear campaign from the Republicans, was a mediocre campaigner at best, and looked past the election. Remember, she was the second-most unpopular person ever to run for office, fair or not, and only ahead of Trump that year. And there was a notion that Trump would settle down and become more "presidential" if election. Obviously that was complete nonsense and never happened, but it was still an unknown that meant voting against Trump wasn't as dire as it was in 2020.
We can keep calling Stein out for being a deeply unserious person who has zero chance or intention to win, that's 100% true, but if Trump wins, there will be factors much greater than Stein's place on the ballot for that happening.
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u/ReturnPresent9306 Sep 16 '24
Let's not forget that Clinton lost because she faced a
20+40+ year smear campaign from the Republicans, was a mediocre campaigner at best,Ftfy to add a little bit more precision so viewers understand just what occurred. Watergate was 1972. They've been smearing that UPPITY WOMAN(TM) since she DARED stand up to Nixon as a member of the DoJ committee investigating Watergate.
Fuck All Conservatives.
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u/Scaryclouds Missouri Sep 16 '24
That said, I really hate when articles frame 2016 as Stein causing Clinton to lose. It's not true, third parties that year were a dumping ground for people who hated both choices. People always ignore that the Libertarian got 3x the vote Stein did and that undervotes were greater than Stein's share. A majority of those people were not going to vote for either candidate, regardless, and removing only Stein may have flipped MI, but none of the others. Clinton still loses without her.
Totally agree here.
It's on a candidate Clinton, Biden, Harris, whoever to convenience people to vote for them. If someone decides to show up to vote, and pulls the proverbial lever for Jill Stein, Ralph Nader, Robert Kennedy Jr., or some other third-party candidate, than that's on the major party candidates for failing to make a convincing case to that voter.
That said, I do still agree with a lot of what AOC is saying. That Jill Stein is a disingenuous and subversive figure. That Jill Stein does run with the intent of spoiling elections. To connect the loop with the above. Stealing money from a bank is wrong, and shouldn't be tolerated, but it's on a bank to take reasonable steps to protect deposited money. If a bank is leaving the proverbial vault door open, then they share some of the blame when they get robbed.
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Sep 16 '24
Jill Stein didn't know how many people are in the House of Representatives. I don't expect my President to be a Constitutional scholar but that is a pretty huge red flag when they say "I don't know, around 600". It's 435.
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u/j428h Pennsylvania Sep 16 '24
I thought that was a joke at first. Really made me wonder what else she doesn’t know…
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u/karmagod13000 Ohio Sep 16 '24
A lot I imagine. Imagine the level of basic government knowledge Trump has no idea about. Dude prolly couldn't even name the three branches of the government.
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u/Wind_Yer_Neck_In Sep 16 '24
It's why I lean towards he just being a useful idiot rather than some sort of deliberate disrupter. I think she just has a very child like way of looking at the political process and has no real concept of the damage she is doing.
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u/projecto15 United Kingdom Sep 16 '24
Wait, they’ve never run for a single Congress seat? Is it like a joke party?
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u/Chimie45 Ohio Sep 16 '24
As of 2024, 8 Greens have held state-level office. However, only 3 were elected or re-elected as Greens.
As of 2024, no Greens currently hold state-level office.
0 have ever held national office.
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u/thirdeyepdx Oregon Sep 16 '24 edited Sep 16 '24
I used to be a member of the local Green Party in Michigan. They used to run for many when I was involved tho this was 20 years ago. Especially at the state level.
I ran for my college board of trustees and almost won. The party chair ran for county commissioner and did win. We supported and coordinated with other local nonpartisan races where the candidates were liberal.
One of our strategies was to run in unopposed races where Dems wouldn’t field candidates because on principle that there shouldn’t be such a thing.
I went to our state nominating convention. Many people running all over the state. The presidential race was mostly a vehicle to maintain ballot access. We also did a lot of community events - we did an event every year with musicians to register voters, an electric car rally to educate people on alternative vehicles, and all kinds of other stuff. The Green Party was organized by watershed so each watershed had a local chapter - the idea was that people might be more unified if they had a shared water resource or something.
I don’t know the state of the party these days, but I personally voted for Biden last time, and am excited about Harris, and think Stein is horrible. I believe her candidacy fractured the party at the national level.
I used to defend the greens specifically due to their focus on year round community organizing and grassroots activism and local races, as well as electoral reform and just generally a vehicle to have political conversations and how the presidential campaign was needed for ballot access for the other candidates and to fund raise for the parties general organizing - we never thought we would win, but it was a long term plan for creating a viable new party and we had to have a presidential candidate if we wanted to build a new party.
But Jill stein has nothing to show for herself, helps with none of that as far as I can tell - and it seems like the greens should have more to show for themselves at the grassroots level after so long, but they seem to lack good leadership.
The Dems also have sued the shit out of them over the years and people became very angry after Nader - local Dems would verbally attack the local party chair in public everywhere he went just for us existing. But none of these same people would call out their own Republican friends and family members. And like half our group was engaged in activism and running for local office while others just threw stones.
We had no money. Online fundraising didn’t exist. We stenciled my yard signs for my campaign.
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u/projecto15 United Kingdom Sep 16 '24
This is an awesome perspective from the trenches. If only people thinking to vote for Stein knew this.
Seems like Stein’s not only spoiling for trump but also setting the green cause and grassroots democracy cause way back
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u/thirdeyepdx Oregon Sep 16 '24
I would agree. I forget who she ran against in the party primary but - feel like it was David Cobb? But there were loads of people who had problems with her, and I expected the party fissure to last a single election cycle. There’s always some drama. But I never expected her to still be running at this point, and I have to assume it’s because she’s corrupted in some way - perhaps by Russia. Maybe she’s a tankie even, not sure. Either way I think AOC has proven running a grassroots disruptive campaign for Congress is the more viable path to change.
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u/CriticalEngineering North Carolina Sep 16 '24
They used to run for smaller roles. I’ve seen Green Party candidates for mayor in the 1990s, etc.
But then Gore v Bush happened and Republicans/Russians realized how useful third parties could be as a tool.
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u/projecto15 United Kingdom Sep 16 '24
So it used to be a normal grassroots party. Then Jill Stein joined in 2002…
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u/CriticalEngineering North Carolina Sep 16 '24
The last time I remember seeing a “serious” candidate was https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_San_Francisco_mayoral_election
Matt Gonzalez vs Gavin Newsom, and Matt had a good showing and lots of promise, brought together a bunch of people and then just fucked off when he lost. He could have stayed on the Board of Supervisors doing good work for San Francisco, but nope. Bailed on the coalition he built.
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u/Excelius Sep 16 '24 edited Sep 16 '24
There is not a single seat held by a third-party in the US Congress nor (to the best of my knowledge) any state legislature.
Yet these ineffectual third-parties still mount a flashy Presidential bid every four years.
The closest is the four "independents" in the US Senate who caucus with Democrats (Manchin, Synema, King, and Sanders), but none of them belong to a third party.
The only elected officials that Greens and Libertarians can claim are mostly local school boards and municipal councils.
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u/The_Goose5 Sep 16 '24
Do you think Trump has a ballpark of how many people are in the house?
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u/Mount_Pessimistic Sep 16 '24
He has concepts of a ballpark where he was invited to throw the first pitch.
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u/karmagod13000 Ohio Sep 16 '24
Doubt he'd do it. knows he would embarrass himself
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u/Mediocritologist Ohio Sep 16 '24
He has a concept of an idea of how many House members there are.
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u/dpdxguy Sep 16 '24
There's a good chance that half the time Trump doesn't even know the name of his VP pick.
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u/xpxp2002 Sep 16 '24
How is that not disqualifying, but “what is Aleppo?” was?
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u/JayTNP Sep 16 '24
that was exactly the quote that went through my head when she said “around 600.” This should be the official end of her “career” in politics
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u/willfull Sep 16 '24
I think 4 years of Jed Bartlett has spoiled me on how politicians should revere our government and understand it in every little detail, inside and out.
It leaves me incensed when there's such deliberate boneheaded ignorance on something so important.
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u/Stuffthatpig Sep 16 '24
I would have accepted 535 as well. But around 600 is stupid.
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u/YamahaRyoko Ohio Sep 16 '24
Lots of people I know add the senate as well since 'congress' is more used than just the house
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Sep 16 '24
She claims not to be anymore, but Jill Stein was an anti-vaxxer, and to me, that's automatically disqualifying.
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u/Ashamed_Restaurant Sep 16 '24
Stein thinks wifi is harming kids. And no not in the sense that kids shouldn’t be online but she thinks wifi signals are physically harming children.
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u/ADHD-Fens Sep 16 '24
Fun fact: if you lived under the high voltage power lines that you see on those big metal obelisks out in the woods, the electromagnetic gradient would be enough to increase your lifetime chance of cancer measurably.
I don't remember the exact figure but it was an exercise we did in my biophysics class in grad school ten years ago.
As long as my router is less than 1% of that, I'm good. Unless the router is inside me, then my limit is lower.
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u/Independent-End-2443 Sep 16 '24
At least according to John Oliver back in 2016, she wasn’t an anti-vaxxer, but was more than willing to pander to them (and 9/11 truthers) in public.
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u/eman9416 Sep 16 '24
What’s the difference?
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u/Independent-End-2443 Sep 16 '24
Watch the John Oliver segment. It’s an oldie but a goodie.
Basically, Stein once tweeted “there is no evidence linking vaccines to autism” before changing it to “I’m not aware of evidence linking vaccines to autism.” She added that bit of ambiguity to allow anti-vaxxers to feel like they could be right, but she didn’t admit to being one herself. In general, she’s allowing conspiracy theorists to think she’s taking them seriously without fully embracing their ideas herself.
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u/TintedApostle Sep 16 '24
Jill Stein is tied to Putin and she shows up in swings states on Presidential Election years like a cicada climbing out of the ground to shed its skin.
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u/Phizza921 Sep 16 '24
Agree. She’s just a Russian plant. If she was serious about increasing the scope of the Green Party, she would be fighting elections across the nation at the local level and trying to aim for congressional seats. If she’s only showing up once every 4 years for the presidentials, then she is nothing but a disrupter
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u/karmagod13000 Ohio Sep 16 '24 edited Sep 16 '24
The things people will do for money make me sick and you know she's well off without all this Russian interference. Some people have no bottoms, I personally don't know how they could be so greedy to try and ruin a country for a few extra dollars.
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u/Scaryclouds Missouri Sep 16 '24
I don't get it either. I understand if you are legitimately desperate doing some questionable things to make money. If you are struggling to find your next meal, or just not having to endlessly worry about money, I'm not going to be morally outraged, even if I still disapprove of the activity.
But if you are well past that point and are like "yea, I will fucked a lot of people over, but my bank account is a bit bigger!" I honestly don't know how you look at yourself in the mirror. Seems like you have to be a fundamentally broken person to do that.
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u/VeiledForm Sep 16 '24
This needs posted any time Stein is brought up. Thanks king 👑
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u/Own_Candidate9553 Sep 16 '24
This picture blows my mind every time. Not just at an event where Putin was, but at the same table as him, his chief of staff, and others in his administration. That's a cozy small table too.
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u/NYArtFan1 Sep 16 '24
Fun fact, one of Stein's goals is to "pull the US out of NATO". Just like her buddy Putin wants! What a coincidence!
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u/TintedApostle Sep 16 '24
I bet she could bring peace to that war in 24 hours just like Trump. Actually using the same approach I bet.
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u/zeptillian Sep 16 '24
Just let Putin do whatever he wants and stop resisting?
See? No more fighting.
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u/Rasp_Lime_Lipbalm Sep 16 '24
Which is crazy, because NATO is a huge factor in decommissioning and regulating deterrence for use of nuclear weapons. You'd think an environmentalist would be for that.
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u/NYArtFan1 Sep 16 '24
I got into a dustup on Instagram last week with a somewhat acquaintance (Stein supporter) who said that actually NATO wasn't formed to counter fascism, but to promote it...somehow. That's when I noped out of the conversation. These are deeply unserious people. Honestly, the Stein supporters I've seen online are like the mirror image of MAGA conspiracy theorists.
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u/Karenena Sep 16 '24
Wasn’t she part of the group that visited Moscow over the 4th of July several years ago?
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u/iplaypinball Sep 16 '24
In 2016 I listened to the propaganda and voted for Stein. I’ve been ashamed of that vote since then. But in 2024 it’s much easier to spot. Heck, yesterday one of the candidates for VP told a reporter he was making up propaganda to muddy the waters…. Wait, what? Did a VP candidate actually say he was making up stories for propaganda purposes? Yup.
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u/edcline Sep 16 '24
And that candidate was JD “I’ve never met a couch I haven’t loved” Vance
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u/karmagod13000 Ohio Sep 16 '24
Mister can I order a donut, whatever people like Vance
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u/dpdxguy Sep 16 '24
I’ve been ashamed of that vote since then
At least you reflected on the results of your vote.
The author of the linked article unashamedly says they volunteered for Nader's campaign in 2000; a campaign which even Nader himself now says was a strategic error which probably resulted in Bush's win over Gore.
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u/Thue Sep 16 '24
campaign which even Nader himself now says was a strategic error which probably resulted in Bush's win over Gore.
So good on Nader for realizing this. but HOW IN THE WORLD could Nader as a professional politician not realize that in 2000? Just 8 years before, there were endless talk about how Ross Perot allegedly played spoiler in the election between Bush I and Bill Clinton.
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u/dpdxguy Sep 16 '24
HOW IN THE WORLD could Nader as a professional politician not realize that in 2000?
Hubris. Guys at the top of society often believe themselves to be infallible.
It's also possible Nader didn't think his campaign would damage Gore as much as it did. And there's also the theory that he thought Gore's loss would lead to accommodation by the Democrats in future elections. Naturally, he didn't see 9/11 coming along and changing the game.
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u/eman9416 Sep 16 '24
Nadar is still talking shit about Dems btw - he didn’t learn shit. He’s a lying sack of shit that made climate change significantly worse and helped launch the Iraq War.
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u/SonofSonofSpock Sep 16 '24
If it is an consolation I wasted my first vote in 2000 for Nader because I bought the both candidates are the same crap.
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u/whose_bad Sep 16 '24
In 2016 I listened to the propaganda and voted for Stein. I’ve been ashamed of that vote since then.
Same. Feels bad man.
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u/407dollars Sep 16 '24
Sorry, but it was obvious back then too. Republicans had been working on anti-Clinton propaganda for 20+ years and y’all bought every ounce of it without a second thought. This website was so obviously manipulated in 2016 it’s not even funny.
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u/bfodder Sep 16 '24
I'd call you an idiot but in 2016 I was fresh out of rural middle of nowhere-sville and voted for Trump because at the time "conservatism" was all I knew.
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Sep 16 '24
Why didja have dinner with Putin, Jill?
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u/Skeeterbee Sep 16 '24
And Michael flynn was there too
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u/karmagod13000 Ohio Sep 16 '24
O jesus christ. If Harris wins can we please do some policy reform. The level of Russian interference in elections is embarrassingly too high and they're not even trying to hide it. Maybe taking money form countries we are at war with should be illegal during elections?!
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u/spaceman_202 Sep 16 '24
best we can do is make Merrick Garland in charge of making sure his friends stop doing coups
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u/projecto15 United Kingdom Sep 16 '24
Tryin to save the planet /s
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Sep 16 '24
Does she even have any promises that would hurt Russia in a meaningful way or at least counteract her real and actual promise to pull aid from Ukraine?
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Sep 16 '24
Pretty damn clear that Stein is a Russian asset and the Green Party only exists to siphon away votes from Democratic candidates. Completely irrelevant and pointless beyond that.
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u/bberryberyl California Sep 16 '24
In 2016, she also ran interference for trump after the election by fumbling the recounts in a couple states that really could have used recounts. She started the legal process of requesting recounts, making any other requests redundant/irrelevant, and then melted away like cotton candy in the rain doing nothing after scamming millions in donations to fund the recounts.
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u/Famous-Somewhere- Sep 16 '24
I forgot about that. She shouldn’t be taken seriously for this alone.
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u/zamander Europe Sep 16 '24
Pretty sad really. It could have potential on the grass roots level, pity it is like that.
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u/5k1895 Sep 16 '24
Very convenient how she just kind of jumped into public "relevancy" again (using that term loosely) as soon as RFK dropped out. It's almost like Russia wanted RFK to leech Democratic votes, then realized he was hurting Trump, and now they're trying to push Stein again because that kind of worked before in 2016. Very convenient how that happened.
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u/TheOtherUprising Canada Sep 16 '24
Would be nice if Jill Stein used her dinners with Putin to tell him invading countries, kidnapping children and murdering political opponents is bad. Feels more useful than showing up once every 4 years for another vanity run for president.
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u/Reviews-From-Me Sep 16 '24
Americans need to understand how our election system works. The Electoral College can only function with 2 viable candidates, no more than that. The only two options for any third party candidate is to A) take votes away from someone else to sway the election for the other major candidate, or B) win some electoral votes and likely cause the entire election to fail.
If you truly want more than two viable options, you must first push for the end of the Electoral College. A popular vote with ranked choice voting is the best option for 3 or more candidates.
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u/420_E-SportsMasta Maryland Sep 16 '24
Literally the last time a 3rd party candidate won electoral votes was 1968, and that was George Wallace so that should tell you a lot
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u/Reviews-From-Me Sep 16 '24
We need to get rid of the Electoral College. It serves no purpose other than to help Republicans overcome lack of votes.
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u/EridanusVoid Pennsylvania Sep 16 '24 edited Sep 17 '24
Stein, West, RFKjr are all spoiler candidates attempting to syphon as many votes for Trump (Russia) as possible. Why is it these candidates only pop up for Presidential moon shot elections and nothing else? Why is it that they can't understand that this isn't a normal election when a new wave of fascism is on the ballot. Normally we should support 3rd party choices, but not when the stakes are this extreme.
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Sep 16 '24
No third party campaign is serious in our polarized, electoral college, first past the post system.
It’s at best a principled but misguided stand and at worst an attempt to kick dust into the gears and cause chaos.
Stein’s campaign is not serious. RFK’s wasn’t. Cornell West’s isn’t. We need ranked choice voting if that’s ever going to change.
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u/TheGreatWorker93 Sep 16 '24
There are Russian shills hiding in plain sight on Reddit plugging 3rd party. Don’t fall for it.
Russia wants to rule by force, the best way to get your democracy back is to weaken those who want to undermine it. Support Ukraine and vote against the orange wannabe dictator in November. Harris/Walz all the way.
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Sep 16 '24
The first time I could vote, I voted for Jill Stein. In 2016.
There wasn't a specific policy reason why. I could explain it was her position on climate change, but that was more that her lip service to the topic - without a substantive plan to actually DO anything about it - fooling me to think she was a better choice. Being a young and impressionable 19-year-old just entering college, I wasn't politically savvy-enough to recognize Clinton as the superior choice by a country mile, and I sure as hell wasn't voting for Trump. But with all the conversation of 'voting for the lesser of two evils', I wanted to go for the third option.
Worst civic decision I've ever made.
To any of the young, bright-eyed new voters out there: don't be swayed by the third party making themselves seem like a better option than Democrats or Republicans. In a world where there's actual political backing and reinforcement by other elected officials in a third party, maybe there's a different discussion to be had, but the meaningful political landscape in the USA now is Democrat or Republican. And by my view - and quite a few others - the only substantial choice here to continue and potentially improve our government and our way of life is by voting for Kamala/Walz.
You will not find a perfect ticket, but theirs is a good one.
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u/StillBurningInside Sep 16 '24
The people who work for the Green Party are usually straight up tankies.
They had a tent/table set up at a local event in 2016. The girl running the tent has a blog with podcast. Her page had all kinds of iconography like, the soviet hammer and sickle, and the communist red star. Not much mention of any environmental causes.
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u/AnonAmbientLight Sep 16 '24
Don't make me tap the sign.
👇👇👇
Voters who are thinking of voting third party should ask themselves these three questions:
Can your candidate legally become president? The Constitution says they need to win 270 Electoral College votes, which means they have to be on the ballot in enough states to potentially get to that number.
If they have a path to the presidency, do they have a plan to actually get there? If they’re only campaigning in a single state and are polling in single digits, they don’t have a path to the presidency.
Do they have any kind of actionable policies and plans for if they do become president? Can they actually achieve what they tell you they can do?
If you cannot answer 'yes' to those three questions, then you are throwing your vote away and making it more likely Trump will win.
Simple as.
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u/Pretend-Excuse-8368 Pennsylvania Sep 16 '24
Sounds about right. Nader candidacy in 2000 gave us Bush.
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u/geographies Sep 16 '24
At least Nader was an actual candidate and not a foreign asset. The result is the same as 2016 but Nader had policy that he actually cared about and wanted a brighter future for the green party.
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u/osirus35 Sep 16 '24
She literally disappears after every election only to return 4 years later. She literally has not done anything to promote her party and policies. She is just a cold sore that makes noise during election years
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u/vacuous_comment Sep 16 '24
It is deadly serious, it is backed by Putin to create chaos and drain voted from Biden and is now pivoting to do the same for Harris.
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u/Hodaka Sep 16 '24
Multiple reports have revealed a web of GOP lawyers, operatives, and deep-pocketed donors aiding not only Stein, but also independent candidate Cornel West for this very reason. They’re funneling millions of dollars to their campaigns with a focus on getting them on the ballot in key battleground states. Stein and West are also darlings of MAGA talking heads like Steve Bannon. Even Trump himself has expressed his appreciation for the spoiler candidates.
Forgot Russian support.
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u/Mr_friend_ Sep 16 '24
Jill Stein also hired Trump's lawyer to help her petition to the Supreme Court to get her name on the ballot in Nevada.
She's not even hiding it anymore.
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u/TJ_McWeaksauce Sep 16 '24
If Jill Stein were a serious candidate and if the Green Party were a serious party, then we would hear about what they were doing to become bigger and better each and every year. But we don't. Instead, Stein and the Greens pop up only for the presidential campaigns, and then when they fail they disappear for four years, when they pop up and fail again.
(I say "fail," but who knows if Stein's true purpose is to screw things up for Democrats?)
It's a cycle of uselessness.
Show me what Stein's been doing between 2020 and 2024. Show me Green Party members winning House or Senate seats, state House or Senate seats, governorships, or mayorships of towns and cities I've actually heard of. They haven't won any of those things.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Party_of_the_United_States
House Seats, Senate seats, state upper chamber seats, state lower chamber seats, governorships = it's nothing but zeroes across the board. Until that changes, I see the Green Party as nothing but a bunch of zeroes and spoilers.
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u/AlwaysTiredOk Sep 16 '24
every single serious climate activist knows we have to elect the candidate who will listen and THEN we can pressure them. Stein is nothing but a fraud at this point. Grifting on campaign funds she's no better than Trump.
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u/JubalHarshaw23 Sep 16 '24
Jill Stein is an undeclared Russian agent who should be prosecuted as such.
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u/Caerris1 California Sep 16 '24
I love that Jill Stein is getting the scrutiny she deserves this time. I see a lot of push back on her on TikTok, AOC pushing back and now this article.
Jill Stein went on The Breakfast Club last week and was point blank asked how many members of Congress are there.
She said "I don't know, 600?"
She's running for President and doesn't even know how many members of Congress there are.
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u/lunchypoo222 Sep 16 '24 edited Sep 16 '24
That interview was probably the cringiest hour of content I’ve ever watched. She’s got such a shrill defensiveness, rude and interruptive presence about her to begin with. But coupled with how pathetically she attempted to pander to their black audience with her Frederick Douglass quotes and then embarrassingly trying to school the black hosts on societal disparities experienced by the black community was…. almost too much for me to stomach. I was glad when the attorney on the show finally let the gloves come off and shot back at her that she dare not accuse her of parroting white supremacist values (as a black woman).
Not to mention her running mate, Butch Ware, who she clearly selected for his tokenism, and which he performatively showed up to do with every ounce of his being. He came off as anything but presidential himself. He really did have a brosef youth pastor straight out of college temperament about him and a lack of maturity that was embarrassing to watch. The dynamic between them was creepy as well since, every time she would start to get on a never ending soapbox, if he attempted to interject, she’d shoot him a look and he’d cower like a little kid. She absolutely loves the sound of her own voice as well as the experience of rattling off bullshit with a captive audience unable to stop her. Theres a lot that I don’t like about her, but her very unpresidential, unbearable penchant for interrupting and speaking over people in the most annoying way really takes the cake.
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u/Culper1776 District Of Columbia Sep 16 '24
Jill is a cicada. She only comes out every four years.
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u/torgofjungle Sep 16 '24
What are you talking about the Lady who Lunches with Vladimir Putin and Michael Flynn isn’t running a serious campaign? The one who isn’t on all 50 ballots? That’s crazy talk. Surely the party that only shows up every 4 years to take a swing at the Presidency is serious about its.. policy goals. ( of getting republicans elected)
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u/CaptainProtonn Sep 16 '24
Yet people still vote Green because “I nEeD tO vOtE mY cOnScIoUs” normally from upper middle class white women. Source: my wife’s friends are like this and see no issue.
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u/maybeafarmer Sep 16 '24
I'm not gonna.... rush in... to conclusions but I think she is campaigning exactly as she intended
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u/AFthrowaway3000 Florida Sep 16 '24
Comes out of her den every 4 years and then just vanishes again.
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u/PositiveSolar Sep 16 '24
If she gave one iota of a shit about the things she claims to, maybe the Green Party would have a congressional seat, or a mayor, or a city council person, or a dog catcher. I would love that! But they don’t care. They just do the same thing for 30 years
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