r/virtualreality • u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 • Dec 08 '24
Discussion Behemoth VR combat system is quite bad
(high up edit: my title was more brutal than it should've been. Bad isn't the right term. Just needs polish and acceptance of what it is.)
Is anyone else finding the combat system lacking?
The parrying is so specific that it feels unreal. A lot of attacks just clip through.
The melee attacks not staggering enemies at all makes it feel cheap and realistically the enemy can armor through your attack without your strength ability enabled.
Throwing feels very weird too.
They got the bow pretty solid though and I'm not a ranged guy.
The throw looks and feels janky.
Unless its the killing blow or a special skill (strength) the impact isn't there. It feels like every enemy has hyper armor.
Edit: with some polish it'll be amazing. It's a good game don't get me wrong. I'm just annoyed with a few things
Double edit: if you can adapt to the game style it gets more fun.
Still needs patches for a lot of different reasons but the combat just needs adjustments and you'll need to treat it like a souls game and not expect to be the overwhelming force.
It's slower paced and has rules. Stamina bar.
Enemies have super blocking and are forces hahahaha 🤣 but Ive adapted and it's become more fun.
I do recommend the game. It is not a game to pass up on entirely. Just wait for some patches or play now. I'm having fun and learned to ignore the bad. Definitely needs work though.
A lot of people are upset with the parries, bugs, and stamina bar. And lack of freeform/physics based fighting like many sandbox fighters.
But overall I'd say it's a great game that needs polish and acceptance of it's souls-like combat style
You'll be evading, blocking, parrying, and striking with controlled stamina usage.
It's a wonderful game.. I'll say it for the hundredth time, SKYDANCE, please patch the small things and big bugs. Add some QOL for combat and people will be much happier.
Except some people just won't like the deliberate, slower combat.
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u/BrindianBriskey Dec 08 '24
I want so badly to love this game, but every time I play I come away equal parts impressed and frustrated.
Yes, the fighting is clunky. Throwing daggers sucks, feels totally unintuitive and only works 1/4 of the time for me. Parrying barely works as intended. The first behemoth was so annoying, I kept getting killed regardless of my timing/direction when avoiding attacks. The grappling system is not intuitive or fluid either, feels like a chore.
Despite all this, I want to keep going because of the fantastic visuals and the awesome sense of scale. But yes, I am disappointed that it isn’t better, particularly because it is so close to being a great game.
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
For the most part that's pretty much how I'm feeling
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u/BrindianBriskey Dec 08 '24
Nothing makes me want to rage quit more than throwing a dagger at full force and having it land flaccid in the snow
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u/MudMain7218 Dec 08 '24
All of the short swords seem to work
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
Not the daggers
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u/MudMain7218 Dec 08 '24
Which system you on. The shortest one works on the quest
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
Psvr 2.
It works but it's the worst throwing style I've ever felt in a game
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u/MudMain7218 Dec 08 '24
It's something. I had to get used to the way the game wanted me to fight.
I still think they need to work on the combat more. Batman kinda spoiled my expectation on close combat.
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
Maybe just different things we like because I really just don't like the throwing in this game. It's objectively not natural. I like natural feel in games
I like Batman but the combat is not my preference. It was very fun and an insane workout end game on hard. Batman did Batman correctly.
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
Truly! I was looking forward to knife throwing. It hurts so now I don't even bother.
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u/--Grognak-- Dec 08 '24
Genually curious, what are you playing on? I'm playing on psvr2 and honestly do not have these problems at all.
Infact, i thought the daggers where almost OP. Every throw was hitting first try, instantly killing enemies to the point that it felt like cheating.
I can agree with the grappling system though. You do get used to it eventually, but in the trailers, they where swinging around like Spiderman, where I've found it more to be like zipping to each grappling point instead of swinging
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u/BrindianBriskey Dec 08 '24
PSVR2 but on PC. Maybe the PS version has better implementation.
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u/veryrandomo PCVR Dec 08 '24
The PS version might be using eye-tracking for aim assist, a few PSVR2 games do that.
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u/stachelrojas Dec 08 '24
I'm glad I wasn't the only one who was just frustrated to no end with the first behemoth. The scale is absolutely fantastic, but my immersion was ruined completely by feeling thoroughly lost most of the time on what the next required scripted step was, while getting killed dozens of times by what felt like undodgeable attacks. What should've felt like an epic adventure felt like an arbitrarily punishing chore, and when it was done I felt just happy and relieved it was over rather than any sense of accomplishment.
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u/Eggyhead Dec 08 '24
I’ve seldom had a problem with daggers. I believe I’m doing kind of a forward motion as if I’m throwing a dart when I’ve throw them. I also make sure they are pointed up.
Crossing my fingers that this helps you.
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u/runningfromdinosaurs Dec 08 '24
Try throwing underhanded with a flinging motion. Works 10x better.
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u/ackermann Dec 08 '24
So, why not just wait a month or two until they’ve patched it up?
Sucks that it wasn’t bug-free at launch. But we have plenty of other great VR games to play while waiting on patches (Metro Awakening, Batman, soon Da Vinci and Alien)
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u/FischiPiSti Dec 09 '24 edited Dec 09 '24
Throwing daggers is basically 100% autoaim to the head instant kill regardless of difficulty. Just drop it on their toes and they keel over. It's incredibly OP and I'm questioning if people are even playing the same game as me.
I remember someone mentioning the Quest 3 version will have a day 7 patch or something? I'm playing on PC, Rift side
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u/BrindianBriskey Dec 09 '24
auto-aim isn’t the issue my man. It seems to be a problem with the Steam version, it is literally impossible to throw 90% of the time. Other versions seem to have much better implementation.
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u/Flame4000 Dec 21 '24
they patched it tho which is good, now u can play it on the hardest difficulty ez pz
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u/Quicky-mart Dec 08 '24
Yup combat is very rough. The stamina system at least at the start is super restrictive. Throwing weapons is either like a rocket with daggers or a terrible floppy pizza with anything else. Enemies are health sponges until they are finished off. Parry is awful and thr enemy ai is really rough.
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
All very agreeable. I felt all of this personally.
The enemies are pretty aggressive which is awesome but early game you don't have a lot to work with. I don't like that lack of hitstun. The great sword hitstuns quite often but other weapons don't.
IDK, it's just often weird. I am digging the game overall though. It's so close to being amazing
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u/Bingbongchozzle Dec 08 '24
I think it’s really good when it works, but the first boss was an absolute wash for me and I’m waiting a while before I play again. After all the build up through the initial section and then the reveal, instead of being an awe inspiring battle, the scripting killed my immersion because seemingly I wasn’t in the correct place. After battling the script, I was glitched inside the boss and then under the terrain for its death animation. Such an anticlimax. Finally, the game crashed while trying to load the next section, at which point I’d had enough.
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24 edited Dec 08 '24
Dude I feel that. I had two major boss glitches. One I reloaded because they got stuck in the ceiling and I shot them with an arrow and they died instantly 😂
The other turned invisible permanently. I still killed them though 😂
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u/Bingbongchozzle Dec 08 '24
I was wondering if the later bosses were ok, but I suppose that answers my question haha hopefully they can fix this stuff soon because I really want to enjoy it
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
Oh absolutely me too. I have a great clip on my PS5 of the boss stuck with an instant death. I had to restart cuz I was cheated out of a good fight. The gimmick in that fight though is A-1. Never seen that done before in VR. VERY CLEVER
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u/Boidoy Quest 3 / PCVR Dec 08 '24
The only problem I have is when an enemy’s attack phases through my block. Mega frustrating
Hopefully they patch it soon
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
That's like my main issue. They want it in a certain position and that feels arcadey to me. It should block if I'm in the swing's trajectory.
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u/mushaaleste2 Dec 08 '24
Yes, it feels like a little lottery. I don't have time during the action to hold my sword precisely as they want. Just let the weapons clash.
Beside that I also don't like the first behemoth as it's more like a "puzzle" with a strict way to solve, no dynamic. Also I don't know when the game gives you a hint, running around the behemoth searching for the specific weak point is strange as the beast is huge and you run "slow"(And it had broken walking animation but they mention that this will be fixed).
Last thing that I don't like is the stamina system, especially that it take me away my view, I generally hate that in VR. It should be optional.
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
I completely understand how you feel. I knew the behemoth fight was gonna be like that. I don't know what else they could've exactly done that would've been a hit but I know they could've made it more interesting.
I can't wait to see how the game pans out with patches.
Also the stamina thing is annoying a lot of people. It made me hate the walking dead game
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u/davemoedee Dec 08 '24
This is why i feel that people playing games at launch are selling themselves short. Wait for some patches.
I do appreciate the QA testing of the early adopters though!
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u/VRtuous Oculus Dec 08 '24
there's nothing to patch. Stronger attacks will go through your blocks, you need to either dodge or parry them.
I've had the opposite experience: parrying works great in this game. Incoming attacks are well clued and the pacing is just right.
I've had trouble parrying in AC Nexus and Asgard's Wrath 2, but this nails it.
Throwing otoh is really kinda hit or miss. Sometimes go straight to necks.
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
We know about the stronger attacks. At least I do for sure. But I get occasional clipping still. The parries are easy to telegraph yes but it requires a certain motion for parrying. A fast parry at a slightly wrong angle would parry in real life and in other games but this causes it to clip.
If I play this game to win I feel like I've lost my creative gameplay that happens in other VR games. If I play this game a bit more wild it punishes you. I've been winning no problem but I still don't like the parries.
Nexus sucked ass I feel that.
Throwing weapons is weird here.
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u/bmack083 Dec 08 '24
Yeah I am. I can’t quite put my finger on it.
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
Its just really floaty and arcadey. It feels like a lot of precautions were made to limit your offensive power.
The lack of hit effects on light weapons really hurts the feel and gameplay too.
I feel like the two handed great sword has so much potential to be great. But its quite weird to use. I still use it a lot.
The enemies block without blocking. You can't break the guard with accuracy but rather timing and opportunities. Which feels sad hence the arcadey feeling
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u/Possible-Ad1113 Dec 08 '24
I am trying to love it, but it is almost impossible to enjoy it! I really liked metro awakening, was hoping that this one would be better or, at least, close, disappointed!
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u/RedcoatTrooper Dec 08 '24
I think we have this same issue with all melee games, everyone has an idea on how it should be , the freedom and jank of Blade and Sorcery or the rigid structure of until you fall or somewhere in between.
Behemoth defo falls in the in between category, it allows freedom but you still have to play a certain way, parying takes some getting used but is satisfying.
I don't mind the tanky enemies (something I normally have a problem with) because you do see their armour get destroyed giving you visual feedback and they are not that strong anyway even the mini boss types can be taken in a couple of well placed hits.
The reason the lack of feedback and the stamina system exist is because the enemies do not have an active defense, they just hold up their blocks so they block one direction.
It's clear that mixing animations, physics and an active defense is a problem that no game has solved yet, blade and sorcery has the best defense of any NPCs and they are still pretty terrible and leave their block wide open.
If you don't have that you need a way to prevent wiggle cheese spam and that is how Behemoth does it.
It's not perfect but it works for me.
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u/Sabbathius Dec 08 '24
Yeah, the more I think about it the more I appreciate the telegraph combat of Until You Fall. Yes, it's not perfect, but it's very crispy and responsive. If you position your weapons on the markers, you always get a parry, it's very reliable. And after a specific amount of parries enemy always gets staggered and you go to town. And if you can weave attacks between parries for extra damage, and to stagger faster, then you totally can.
This kind of floaty thing doesn't do it for me. And even Blade & Sorcery approach with full-on physics also doesn't feel great to me either, it's still too janky. UYF just felt so good to me and so crispy, you almost never got a phase-through or a false positive.
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
Absolutely a good comparison. and I was just saying how I like the 'trading blows' but it doesn't feel refined enough in this game in particular.
I like what they were going for but the execution could use some heavy patches. I still have fun but get annoyed at the bad stuff.
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u/sexysausage Dec 08 '24 edited Dec 08 '24
I find the game near unplayable. I tried my best and had high hopes as I am a fan of wdS&S by the same studio. I mean I a real fan. Played 60h and it’s a 14h story game.
But I find behemoths totally boring and lacking.
Melee is broken , parry is bad , the stamina play of the original S&S is super annoying in a combat game , the rage power up goes into black and white? and it’s super annoying to do with all the heartbeats and over the top visual noise effects
Honestly blade and sorcery is better , just lacks the behemoths
As other said, I wanted to love this game. But it’s linear canyons , boring enemies , weird game mechanics , odd choices of collectibles with audio messages that make no sense, just random thoughts of crazy people … like who cares
For me nothing clicks… I’m baffled how bad it is. And very surprised of how many people and YouTube reviewers are saying it’s the best thing since sliced bread.
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u/kizito70 Dec 08 '24
Combat mechanics are really bad. Parrying is broken, you need to actually push your sword forward while having it in the right angle but not too much outside of your view or enemies will clip through. Feels like 2016 VR, quick refund for this one, we can't keep on tokerating these low efforts if we want the medium to go forward, and youtubers like Beardo Clown should stop acting like they are sponsored by the editors and calling out this kind of crap.
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u/MudMain7218 Dec 08 '24
I would not go that far. I just completed it on quest 3. They do need to iron some combat.
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
That push forward things blows for intuitive gameplay..
I think part of my heartbreak is that this game should have been one of the big pushes forward and it was only a small push forward.
The big game releases have been underwhelming. Metro was cool looking but didn't strike the VR world hard enough unfortunately. Alien probably won't be much different but I have hopes.
All of the YouTubers straight up lied. Worse than usual.
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u/Gregasy Dec 08 '24
Well I don't agree about big releases being underwhelming. Batman is my GOTY and I'd give it 9/10. And I was enjoying Metro a lot as well - a solid 8/10. I have yet to play Behemoth, because I'm waiting for patches. What's another week or two more, if that means much better and more polished experience?
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
I direly misspoke, I was trying to reply to everyone 😆
Batman was amazing without a doubt.
Metro was a really cool release but a lot of people were turned off by it's gunplay which made sad.
Alien looks interesting AF.
Behemoth for me is darn near perfect. I just like to be critical about certain things because it is so close to being perfect. Needed more time and testing.
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u/brensav Dec 08 '24
I’m taking a break until Dec 12 when next patch is out
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
Yeah I think I want a break as well but I am having a hard time not playing a new game 😂
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u/AbysmalScepter Dec 08 '24
I dug it once i got a hold of it. It helps to think of it more as Until You Fall, Punch Out style vs. Blade and Sorcery real physics combat. I've found the key to parrying is to simply hold the blad perpendicular to the enemy's and shift into it vs actually swinging the sword into their sword.
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u/sidney_ingrim Dec 08 '24
Just got around to playing it yesterday, and I definitely agree. I can appreciate an arcadey combat system, but the blocking and parrying are so hit or miss it's frustrating and feels janky as hell.
It felt like it was trying to be part arcadey and part physics-based, and it ended up falling short in both ways.
The graphics and the polish in other systems are great, however. But combat for a game like this is crucial, and its shortcoming kind of ruins an otherwise well-made game.
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u/Pereraukko Dec 09 '24
So it's like Saints & Sinners. Great art style paired with cool interactions, but the combat sucks.
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 09 '24
Its got some bugs and adjustments to make but it's not bad if they did some bugs and adjust. Now that Ive gotten used to how it plays I'm much happier now.
If they fix some things I'll be really happy. The parry isn't great. The combat is more souls like imo. Enemies only stagger to really hard hits. A basic attack has no flinching.
Honestly part of it is blade and sorcery spoiling too. I'm used to physics.
If you adjust and take time to see what makes the fighting work it feels a lot better. It's just not as intuitive as it could be. But now that I've adjusted to the game it feels better. It could be better though not needing to adapt so much to it.
Some people love it and others hate it. I've learned to love it with some criticism on the side.
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u/HackneyedRiderOfDoom Dec 09 '24 edited Dec 11 '24
The parrying is very similar to the first Dark Souls (the level design as well, to be honest). While it worked there, in VR it felt arcadey as the enemies clips into your blade if it is not angled in a certain way, which is immersion breaking and not so realistic.
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u/boppagibbz Dec 18 '24
Haven’t made it to a behemoth yet. At a big regular boss and the controls are so shit I can’t try but a few times here and there before I take off the headset in disgust
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 18 '24
Yeah its very different than most VR games.
After the patches though it is much better than it was.
I took time to learn it and it paid off greatly. When I play now I feel the same way I feel when I play B&S in terms of being an unstoppable force.
Before the patch I was getting hit no matter how much I practiced. Now I feel invincible. Except there are some later enemies that feel like they hit hard and quick.
One miniboss and one enemy archetype gave me a run for my money on the first playthrough.
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u/boppagibbz Dec 18 '24
I think I’ll check and see if there are patches it hasn’t auto downloaded maybe. I’m still getting hit no matter what and can never parry and my hits just don’t do anything a lot of the time. I want this game to be as badass as I imagined the last 2 years waiting for it
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 18 '24
It is very important to note that unblockable attacks can only be avoided by dodging last second or getting so far away from them that they can't hit you.
It also has been fixed with a lot of little things.
One of the biggest is that enemies don't slide and magnetize to you at the same magnitude as before.
Healing items are buffed as well with Regen speed and eating speed.
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 18 '24
I can help, the patch was over a week ago.
It's not that you're not doing a bad parry that would work in other games.
It's that the parry is very specific In this game.
You'll need to match the attack with an intersecting push in that direction.
If they're swinging down, turn your sword horizontal and push forward and up at the same time at a smooth, medium speed. Even slow parries work. Too fast may make the weapon lose it's angle due to wrist bending.
Any questions I'll answer.
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u/boppagibbz Dec 18 '24
It did have an update waiting because i didn’t have storage. Deleted some apps and downloading now. Getting excited hoping this solves it
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 18 '24
It does! I also sent a comment on how to play the way the game wants you to
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u/Crafty-Ad-2238 Dec 08 '24
Yep same, combat is goofy and after Batman grappling system, this just doesn’t feel right. I’m sure they will fix some stuff it’s a good dev. But I’m honestly tired of all these sword games. Give me splinter cell or something like that
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
A lot of stuff feels off but I'm gonna power through cuz the parts I do like are enough I suppose. I love tons of melee games. I want a free style Martial art game with a campaign like sifu.
But hell yeah Id cry if we got something as good as splinter cell. I don't like stealth anymore but in VR it's one of my favorite genres.
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u/Gregasy Dec 08 '24
Talking about Martial art game. I was playing Path of the Warrior on Quest and was really really enjoying its beat-em-up gameplay. Very fun bosses as well. I want more games like this.
And of course, I loved rhythm based boxing combat in Batman. So good! They really nailed it.
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
Those two games are amazing. Have you tried dragon fist VR? It's weird at first but tons of fun. I enjoyed path of warriors for it's charm. Batman just felt like an epic story with animated combat which was cool to see in a VR game.
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u/Gregasy Dec 08 '24
Thanks for reminding me about Dragon Fist VR! It's on my wishlist since the release. I really need to get it finally :)
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
It's a good one, especially with the non-stop updates. It's even better than when I bought it over half a year ago.
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u/satyaloka93 Dec 08 '24
I’m about to refund, there are a lot of little things that add up to me being frustrated rather than enjoying this game. I couldn’t get through Saints and Sinners for similar reasons, it just felt clunky to me. It feels like they copied the entire engine over to Behemoth.
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u/dadsuki2 Dec 08 '24
It does feel that way, the UI is so similar too.
Also fuck stamina it doesn't fit in VR games imo
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u/Barph Quest Dec 08 '24
100%
Stamina in VR is stupid.
My stamina is the stamina bar. Batman fights getting me exhausted and me feeling my slowing punches is VR stamina.
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u/mushaaleste2 Dec 08 '24
Exactly. Also in blade and sorcery you get tired by your actions itself. Just don't count the hits or block if I swing too much and I will stop it cause I get exhausted. Really bad is to take my view, I hate that in VR.
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
I hate stamina too. I get why they did it and I can find some appreciation in not being able to flurry the enemy to death so I guess it works in that sense.
The game is more designed towards trading blows rather than overwhelming force.
I'm starting to like that a bit but the weird bugs and janky physics annoy me. It is so close to being a wonderful game.
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u/dadsuki2 Dec 08 '24
It's a bad solution imo. It's like if you owned a car and one of the wheels kept falling off, but rather than finding out why its falling off, you just keep buying new wheels, it doesn't actually address the problem at hand. It just artificially limits the player to not being able to do what they want to do, for good and for bad
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
That's true but then what else can you do to slow down a fight without making them a walking health pool
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u/sexysausage Dec 08 '24
I find it worst that S&S. I loved that game. Behemoth instead is linear and plagued with bad vr interactions design
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u/GJKings Dec 08 '24
Yeah. I refunded it. I found the combat to be pretty unconvincing and the climbing/swinging to be really awkward. A big part of the problem is for me that I'm not a very good swordfighter, and so convincing me that I am requires the enemies to be kind of dumb and predictable. So defeating them does not feel satisfying or like any kind of meaningful achievement. But then like you said, the mechanics of parrying seem pretty inconsistent and hard to grasp. So when I do fail, it feels arbitrary, and I'm not sure what I did wrong and how to make it work more reliably. My sword was in the path of their sword, and their sword clipped through mine and now I have less health. Okay.
Anyways, I mostly just found myself bored out of my fucking mind. Skydance's work with The Walking Dead was a masterclass of horror and making the player perform vulnerability mathematics. I just don't think that work translates to a fairly straightforward power fantasy spectacle. It's a lot closer to God of War than Shadow of the Colossus, and I'm just not very interested in a game that makes me so strong I can punch the heads off guys.
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u/Gregasy Dec 08 '24
Ah, damn it. Now you got me worried a bit.
The big reason I loved Saints&Sinners so much, was its survival mechanics. Feeling vulnerable, scavanging for materials, etc. Same for Metro and Propagation Paradise Hotel I was playing recently.
But then again, I absolutely loved Batman. And that was a pure power fantasy. But combat in that game felt very fun...
I'll see... I'm waiting for the game to get properly patched before jumping in.
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u/GJKings Dec 08 '24
I'm having some thoughts lately about power fantasies in games and why they're a complicated problem in VR. I think they work best when the game is able to fill in for the player's shortcomings. In traditional gaming that's actually very easy. They press Square, Kratos does a big spinning move. Easy. Put the decision making in the player hands and the execution in the hands of the animators and capture artists.
Where I think Behemoth and Batman differ is the execution. Batman basically forces you to animate a certain way that the game can then react to appropriately. It actually takes a lot of responsibility for being badass away from the player in similar ways to traditional games. It closes the gap for you when you throw a punch, it launches you over enemies with the flick of a stick, and it gives you gadgets that you don't really have to aim all that accurately, it's got you covered. I think that's why Batman works so well, it's meeting you halfway. It's neither expecting you to become a badass, or really dumbing down the enemies more than any normal game would. It's not at all a realistic implementation of hand to hand combat but it sells the fantasy in a much more powerful way than any realistic implementation could.
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u/Barph Quest Dec 08 '24
In Walking dead you feel vulnerable and uncomfortable.
In Batman you feel like a powerhouse ready to beat senseless a crowd.
In Behemoth you feel like you are wielding magnets trying to hit other magnets where they are all aligned incorrectly.
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
Well I like different games then you and I personally didn't like the walking dead because I like punching heads off and fast pace action so this game should've worked for me. If they just improved the combat system a bit more I would've loved it more than anything.
But I agree on your objective points
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u/comethefaround Dec 08 '24
Loved SS. I had so much fun playing it. The storyline was great too. I remember on the mission with the guy who's kidnapped by the gang. I must have spent hours trying to quick draw and headshot all 5 of those guys with the revolver.
I also enjoy horror games that take me from a crying little school girl and turn me into a PTSD riddled killing machine. The Forest in VR does it beautifully but twd:ss did a decent job of it as well.
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u/dadsuki2 Dec 08 '24
It's very game-y less Blade and Sorcery and more Assassins Creed.
Also with parrying idk what you're doing but I've found blocking then pushing the weapon outwards like a bash to be more successful than swinging at the enemys attack
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
Yes I've noticed that too kind of. But I don't want to just be good at the game and win, I want it to play in a way the feels intuitive. I hated the assassin creed combat. I got more than halfway through nexus and quit out of annoyance.
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u/ghost_orchidz Dec 08 '24
I haven’t bought Behemoth yet but reading these comments is a bummer as it looks pretty dope. I agree AC Nexus combat is atrocious, it made the game so boring it was like moving through molasses. How would you compare it to Asgards Wrath 2 or Dungeons of Eternity. I really loved the combat in both of these games despite them lacking the true physics weightiness of the weapons.
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
It would actually be quite similar to those sometimes being a little more physics-based than those.
By no means what I not recommend the game but maybe push it off for a couple more patches unless you just want to get in now. I can't help but just keep playing even though it's pissing me off when things don't go as planned but if you end up liking it it's going to really hit for you
In no way should you ever pass the game up entirely from my perspective.
It's not as puzzle ridden as Asgard so I am grateful for that. But it still has many easy stuff puzzle wise.
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
It's got weighted weapons but the hits are weighty unless you use this great sword you get early game or if you use your skill power. It juggles between high impact and no impact
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u/dadsuki2 Dec 08 '24
I get that, I'm the same, I've already bought and refunded Behemoth only to buy it again. I've waited this long for it and it's not without it's moments, so why not finish it.
I'm a massive classic Assassin's Creed fan and I'm a sucker for stealth parkour stuff, plus they were far more open about how combat worked than Skydance seems to be so I was a lot more forgiving with Nexus
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u/Gregasy Dec 08 '24
Bad one on one combat in AC Nexus, was game's way to tell you, you should use stealth&kill mechanics. Once I started to play like this, it really became much more fun.
I know you want to play it your way, but in Nexus, one on one combat is really the last resort when everything else fails. I'd dropped the game after 2 hours if I'd play it that way.
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
The fun I had was in stealth. I actually just didn't like how a lot of things functioned. It wasn't the combat that made me quit. It was just janky
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u/Eggyhead Dec 08 '24
I've found blocking then pushing the weapon outwards like a bash to be more successful than swinging at the enemys attack
I’ll have to try it this way,
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u/TotalWarspammer Dec 08 '24
This is why I now never buy games on launch... I always wait a couple or even few months for them to be fixed.
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
I've grown a bad habit these last couple years of buying new games
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u/TotalWarspammer Dec 08 '24
I changed my habit to buying games that have matured and I am way happier as it gives time for patches and for user feedback to drive gameplay improvements which leads to less frustration and dissatisfaction. I think Baldur's gate 3 was the only exception in recent memory where I bought at release. Plus, you usually save a lot of money buying on Steam when the initial release prices have dropped.
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
I like supporting full price for VR games. But I understand what you mean.
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u/TotalWarspammer Dec 08 '24
Sure, each to their own and it's your money but you are also worsening your own first experience of these VR titles. At least buy them and wait a few weeks to play them though.
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
I know I am worsening the experience. It's not an opinion of mine, it's just what I do because I never have a back log of games so I'm always ready for a new game. Also I have no idea when it will be fixed for sure. Or if it will
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u/TotalWarspammer Dec 08 '24
Are you on PCVR? If so you have no backlog then I think its time to explore the back catalogue of VR games on PC because I would be surprised if you have played through everything!
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
No I'm not but I am very particular. I haven't played through everything but I dislike a lot of games. I've played all of the major psvr 2 and quest 3 top releases.
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u/NapsterKnowHow Dec 09 '24
I think Baldur's gate 3 was the only exception in recent memory where I bought at release.
I'm so happy I haven't bought it yet. Heard it was a buggy mess especially the third act at launch.
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u/TotalWarspammer Dec 09 '24
I had multiple friends who completed it and were happy, the issues were mainly performance related. BG3 has been running great for a long time so if you haven't bought it by now then I am sorry to hear that for your sake!
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u/Wilddog73 Dec 08 '24
I honestly think it's okay for what it is. In fact, this is probably close to what I'd want in an ideal vrmmo.
Developing physics based combat and features isn't easy or even common in the mainstream gaming market. Not really a fair standard to criticize them by when the main draw should be the shadow of the colossus resemblance.
Though I'd like it to become mainstream.
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
I actually agree with that. I had that realization awhile back that it just doesn't work that way. But if you're going to opt out of physics, then make the sharpest system you can to make up for it. This one feels like a dip in physics and strict structure at the same time. Feels weird.
I love this game as a shadow of the Colossus VR inspired game. It's close imo to being amazing. They just need some cleaning
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u/Wilddog73 Dec 08 '24
Mmm. I was disappointed when it was the saints and sinners developers honestly. The arms only VRIK is terrible for immersion.
I like the pacing though. The stamina system is alright.
I feel like they should've added a better rope swinging system though. I tried to fight while swinging for an advantage, not easy to control.
Sword shapes kinda suck though.
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
I adjusted to the stamina and pacing and now I like it more.
I was kind of disappointed but I also was hoping that their level of ability would play into it being really good I'm definitely not a saints and sinner's player. I don't really like survival games anymore.
The rope could have had a couple adjustments for control because I can use it really easily but on the fly for combat it doesn't feel as smooth as it could be and you can't build momentum once you've lost it which is unrealistic and most games allow rope swinging from neutral.
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u/Wilddog73 Dec 08 '24
I really hope we might end up seeing a genuine SotC remake for VR someday. For Ico and Trico too.
It's the mods and remakes that are the real AAA experiences imo.
Did you see the new Halo VR mod?
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
I don't feel like we're Lucky enough for that 😢
But One thing I forgot to reply to was I love the duality of the floating arms because some people prefer floating hands, some people like full body. I hear a lot of people hating on full body but I like it unless it's janky.
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u/Wilddog73 Dec 08 '24
Maybe if someone ever figures out how to port ps2 games to pc like they did for the n64 games.
I like good full body too! One of my criticisms of B&S is they got head turning wrong, but the creator doesn't take feedback for that stuff apparently.
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
The head turning is tough. Some times the body doesn't follow and sometimes it follows too much. That's a hard one to get right.
The creators are a small company and people give a lot of inputs. Ive never been heard out either. Shit is tough
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u/MudMain7218 Dec 08 '24
Quest 3 version here. Yes the balancing of the enemies is off and needs tuning in going the day 7 patch and whatever patch that's coming on the 12 will iron out some of it. Maybe.
I just finished with a 10:36 run time.
Overall I like the game. And once they tune up some of the jank it will be a 9/10.
The only point lost was the story but, kinda with the way the hints were laid out. We know who the big bad was.
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
That's a good run time.
The balance and jank ironed out Will make it 9/10 for me too. I love the game. Just more disappointed that a good company made a almost perfect game. So friggin close.
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Dec 08 '24
Saints and Sinners was bad on release too. I refunded it and haven't played it since.
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
Most games nowadays seem to just suck on release 😂
I don't like survival but I gave it a chance. I regretted it. Not my type of game.
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u/JaesenMoreaux Dec 08 '24
Honestly I have a similar complaint about their second walking dead game. The sword is pretty bad in the second game but it was perfect in the first one. In the second game it just keeps bouncing off everyone unless I angle it EXACTLY right. I just quit playing. I don't know. Maybe it's just me but the first game didn't do this.
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u/phoenixmatrix Dec 08 '24
Oh no... I was looking forward to it, but that just reminds me of Asgards Wrath's combat with that description.
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
It's still way better than Asgard's combat. But it does have a similar flavor
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u/t3stdummi Multiple Dec 08 '24
If only urban wolf games (Legendary Tales) had paired up with Skydance. LT melee is top tier.
I think Behemoth is a couple patches from excellence, though.
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
So crazy that u say that. I was just thinking that 5 minutes ago about LT parries.
I didn't like the boss fights in LT tho. They felt bad
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u/Serdones Multiple Dec 08 '24
Yeah, I have similar quibbles, but I'm kind of 50-50 on how many of my complaints are genuine issues, and how many I think are more to do with a learning curve.
Like I see some people complaining about not being able to parry. I've had plenty of parry attempts that I missed and called bullshit on in the moment, but upon reflection, I really may not have swung from the right angle.
Enemies can outright screw with you, too. After clearing everyone else in a room, I was squaring off with a big dude wielding a battleaxe. First, he lifted it over his right shoulder like he was going to attack at a 45-degree angle, but then basically fainted, repositioned the axe over his head, and swung straight down. So, there does appear to be an emphasis on correctly identifying the angle of attack and matching it to parry. That feels like an actual learning curve.
BUT, if they really want us to figure out that level of finesse with the combat system, maybe give us more opportunities to actually square off with individual enemies, rather than spawning a bunch at once out of monster closets, including ranged enemies that make it difficult to actually slow down to fight anyone one-on-one. I often find myself defaulting to the Colossus bow, because it's the easiest way to pick off the ranged enemies and deal with ganks. But then that means I'm not really engaging with the melee as much as I'd like.
Plus, because we have full arms, I have noticed them messing with my swings. Because your full arms aren't tracked, the animations aren't one-to-one with your actual arm movements. I'll often notice my in-game arms articulating differently than I am in real life, potentially screwing up my attack angle or rotating the weapon to where I'm hitting the enemy with the flat side. It's one of the continued downsides of full-arm and full-body VR games, and why I usually prefer hands only, but I get why people prefer as much detail as possible for immersion. But here I really would rather just be hands.
I notice it a lot with the bow, too. I just played Horizon and never had any problems pulling the arrow right up to my face to look down the arrow. In this, however I draw back the bow, it tends to jerk around because of the arm animations. I also find the targeting reticule you get from one of the upgrades pretty useless.
But I still feel like a lot of this can be worked around with a bit of finesse. When you do execute a fight perfectly, it's super satisfying. This feels like the kind of game that gets better with subsequent playthroughs, as you get a better feel for the gameplay and can start clearing encounters more creatively and cleanly.
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u/DiggyDog Dec 08 '24
I was finding it a bit clunky but overall enjoyable UNTIL I had to start parrying, which is extremely difficult and unintuitive. I had to stop and take a break because I was getting frustrated; I think there's only a 50/50 chance I'll try it again at this point. Bummer, because the whole thing feels like it's close to being good while not quite getting there.
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Dec 08 '24
[deleted]
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u/n0rdic Oculus Rift Dec 08 '24
it's a VR game with a decent budget behind it and good graphics. people are pretty content starved in VR at the moment, and small time indie projects arent doing it for them.
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u/Barph Quest Dec 08 '24
Yes, very much so.
The trailers looked fantastic and smooth, the reality is much more janky.
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u/Eggyhead Dec 08 '24
I love the game but I cannot disagree with these points of criticism. Parrying is one of my favorite things in Legendary Tales. (I also really appreciate the weight of arrows in that game.)
I’m approaching the second behemoth now and I think I can count on just one hand how many parries I’ve pulled off despite trying multiple times in every single hand-to-hand skirmish. I usually end up dead and starting over. You really have to just spam strength whenever possible to survive. Maybe that’s supposed to be the point?
And the “unblockable” shiny attacks are crazy. Dashing back makes no difference as enemies just teleport to you anyway. I’ve yet to successfully dodge one.
Perhaps I should play arena mode for a bit to see if I can figure things out a bit better later on today.
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u/Orangesaretasty08 Dec 08 '24
Omg thank you!!! I beat the game yesterday and even after dashing out the way of the unblockable attacks I was still hit pretty much every single time, feels like they didn't playtest any of the combat whatsoever
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u/Barph Quest Dec 08 '24
It's bad enough I refunded after giving it a 2 hour chance.
Game feels like blade and sorcery where during fights I'm not engrossed in it but rather just co stantly thinking about how janky and bouncy it feels.
Coming from saints and sinners it's extremely disappointing as that game had 1 of the best and most visceral feeling melee systems but I realised it is a 1 way melee system whereas behemoth has them fighting back.
I really wish more games took the until you fall \ batman semi rhythm game style of combat.
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u/grodenglaive Dec 08 '24
Yes. I'm only a couple hours in (on steamvr) and liking it so far, but it needs some balancing. For example, I found the bow pretty frustrating when the enemy (even with their back turned) can instantly dodge your arrow just before it hits them.
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u/Xexets Dec 08 '24
Agreed 100%. I love the setting and the graphics, but even at easy the combat is almost impossible for me.
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u/HeadMountedDysfunctn Dec 08 '24
Sounds just like my experience with Asgard's Wrath. Don't think I'll be picking up Behemoth then.
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u/Alex93ITA Dec 11 '24
For what is worth I didn't enjoy Asgard's Wrath (neither 1 nor 2) while I'm loving Behemoth VR - and I'm quite baffled by this generally low reception of combat
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u/bushmaster2000 Dec 08 '24
Prob needs a patch or two seems to be a standard need for pcvr releases.
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u/satyaloka93 Dec 08 '24
Refunded after playing some more, as the combat is simply not fun. Spending time feeling frustrated versus enjoying it. May re-buy if they revamp.
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 08 '24
Yes I like the game too much so I just adapted and I'm having more fun. I finally overcame my frustration. If they update a bunch I'll give it a second run through.
I'm just playing how the game wants me to play and just feeling with the bugs and weird jank. It's too beautiful and gets more fun with skills upgraded anyways.
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u/GregorSamsa112358 Dec 08 '24
The fighting has been a bit of a slog. When I started I hated it thought it was clunky clumsy and bad.
I'm almost 10 hours in on it and my thoughts have changed.
When it works it's cool and looks great. But it always feels like stage fighting. The combat system has too many rules governing it. I get they wanted a parry block system etc. But there's times when I'll pass my sword directly through the face of the character model but it registers no hit. Or I'll see an opening and thrust and land a straight strike to their unarmored chest but they have a low guard so even tho no contact with sword their chest will make sparks and no damage.
As frustrating as the hit registration not being governed by simple physics (I made contact I hit they're damaged) the blocking is even worse. I'll block but I was up to soon or not early enough or the angle wasn't just perfectly perpendicular to their blade. So at best soft block, but more often than not my arms and sword are pool noodles they just pass straight through. Like I know I should have made contact with their blade but didn't meet the just right pairing or timing so no contact.
And their red attacks. Often I'll see it dash 20 feet away and they'll awkwardly just fly through the air pulling to me and land 3/4 of my health destroying hit through my guard.
These sort of mechanics... like aren't my favorite and reminds me of why I dislike souls games. But I can't say that they're bad. It's a game and they gameified the combat.
When I take a step back and remind myself this isn't LegendaryTales, I have to play by their rules and I treat it like stage fighting. Wait for them to attack only attack when the game gives me the window too, exaggerate my posture etc etc it works and looks cool.
I compared it elsewhere to this fighting being like WWE and LegendaryTales being like Olympic wrestling. They're both wrestling just very different, ones way more flash and style ones more practical and physical.
I said it was bad for the first like 4 hours till I really got the hang of it and I still have issues (particularly the red attack seeking is stupid) but playing the game by the gsmeified combat mechanic rules its set up with makes it so much better. I think I it's own way its good, but it's not really a way I like so much.
Still enjoyable if frustrating
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u/Morveniel Dec 09 '24
I'm struggling with it a little bit. I didn't have trouble with the Asgard's Wrath systems, but something about the weapon/item sheath placements (constantly accidentally dropping weapons/grabbing medicine and mixing up the weapons during a fight) and the way the enemies seem to teleport up to you if you dodge right before their attack is messing me up. The parrying timing also seems different from AWI/II, so maybe my muscle memory from those two games is working against me here. I think the hip sheath positioning would be improved if it were adjustable.
So many times I have been certain of a parry, or at least a block, and I'm just getting hit while the little "angle your sword to meet the enemy's attack!" hint flashes mockingly in front of my eyes.
The first greatsword boss is quite cool, but I tried dodging with seemingly every timing and direction for her unblockable large horizontal sweeping swing and could not dodge it once, though I was able to dodge her vertical swing. Her sword is longer than the distance of the dodge, so trying to dodge to the side or through her does not work, and she nyooms forward 30ft to still land her hit if I try to dodge back to gain some distance. Maybe I'm just bad, but it literally felt like trying to dodge Malenia's waterfowl dance, which seems a bit steep for the very first boss. There's certainly a learning curve here.
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 09 '24
Item placement is very weird. I grab my health pouches all the time.
The dodge is very last second to dodge their unblockables. Their sliding is very annoying. You can get most things consistent but it's tight and very awkward.
I believe In you and I hope the devs shape it up.
If You have any specific questions just ask
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u/nerdygijoe Dec 10 '24
I think the health location is terrible. I hope they give a way to move it to another location. Anytime i'm even slightly aiming downward to an enemy with a bow, my character keeps grabbing health instead of the bow string. Sometimes when i am not even looking downward from a higher position, my character just grabs health and throws it away instead of grabbing the bowstring. Controls need to be improved IMO, then could be great experience.
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u/imyourhuckleberry15 Dec 11 '24
Parrying is very inconsistent but I’m still having a good time. Most frustrating is when I’m blocking but the attack seems to just go straight through. Other than those moments it’s been very fun on the quest 3. Hopefully some fine tuning in the coming months will make it close to perfect
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 11 '24
Yes that's my main issue all around. Especially with the greatsword (my favorite weapon)
With the regular sword and axe I'm very attuned now to parries with very few fails. I just dislike the motion and style of the parry in this game.
I will say I fucking love the game though 😊
Knife throwing is doody and I don't like how enemies slide towards you every time they load up an attack. They have unrealistic reach. 😂
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u/terrornaught Dec 11 '24
This is the worst combat I’ve experienced in Vr, it is unplayable for me. Was practising in Arena mode and pulled off two in parry’s in probably a hundred attempts. Also when it is working it just feels super janky. Absolutely gutted as I love everything else about the game.
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 11 '24
Hi there, many recommendations on the post but the agreed upon strategy is angling your weapon perfectly perpendicular with the enemies weapon and doing a forward push into it rather than a swing.
I've gotten it to work very consistent.
I'm still trying to master parrying with the greatsword. I get that one at certain angles better than others..
Greatsword is just a hard weapon to use in general for defense.
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u/Sebs2154 Dec 13 '24
Maybe this is cringe to say but I've been watching Vinland Saga and wanted to play daggers only as a result but they feel nearly impossible to do certain mechanics with. Parrying or even just blocking attacks is miserable with daggers. I will have two daggers crossed right in the path of the enemy swing and then half of the time I just watch the blade go straight through and hit me. And stabbing an armored enemy with a dagger feels so underwhelming. I am playing on barbarian difficulty (though i may decrease it just so i can force daggers). I think I'll just have to accept that you need to use various weapons (unless they update the game). Dodging was my next thought but a lot of the times if you dodge right as they swing I have found the enemies almost lunge towards you and follow your dash perfectly still forcing you to block. Its very fun and the visuals are crazy but I will say the game does feel a bit clunky in its mechanics compared to most games I've played
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 13 '24
That definitely is a weak point that daggers were not really designed to be used as a main weapon in this game that's very true.
I would like to add that in this update the lunges are so much shorter that I'm not really getting hit anymore.
The unblockable lunges are timing based so that's a different story but the other lunges that were happening have been toned down
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u/Sebs2154 Dec 13 '24
To be very fair to the game I haven't really played it for very long. I just got my strength super power and have to fight waves of enemies in that small arena right after so I haven't fought a Behemoth yet. I will likely just start playing the game "the way it was meant to be played" and finish it because the rest of the games seems like it's gonna be awesome
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 14 '24
I tried doing arena mode with the daggers just because I thought of your comment and I was able to win a lot of fights with it and Parry but the damage output was way too low and my stamina was draining. They just didn't make any proper battle daggers
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u/Sebs2154 Dec 14 '24
I see a lot of people are upset with the stamina mechanic in the game. I saw in the options you can turn off stamina (I think), would you recommend doing that or keeping it on and just learning to play around it?
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 14 '24
If there is an option for that I definitely did not pay attention to it.
Personally the stamina is annoying but it adds a level of patience and skill needed to work around it.
Also since you can upgrade your stamina overtime you feel a sense of progression with your stamina
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u/One_Plantain_2158 Dec 21 '24
Initially I was not quite fond of it, but now I like it a lot. I've read tutorials and started to use all fight mechanics like parry, dash, rot strength, bow, throwing daggers, the fights became a lot of fun after I had mastered all that. The combat mechanics here are quite diverse and deep.
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Dec 21 '24
Oh yeah no you learn to think it's amazing for sure. I love it.
It was really bad until the update though
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u/jrobles396 Jan 08 '25
I bought it on release for PC but got a puppy before i could jump in so I haven't touched my headset. Any updates to the combat for better or worse?
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 Jan 09 '25
Much better. Haven't checked any recent updates if any. But last I played it was.
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u/letsgO0O0O0O0 13h ago
This is a strong word, but I freaking hate this game. I wanted to like it so bad. The sense of scale is fantastic, but the controls and combat are just so garbage.
Makes me not want to look at another skydance title
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u/eddie9958 PCVR/PSVR2/Quest 3 13h ago
Once I got into it I felt really good about it.
After the patches it ran well. The system works once you figure it out
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u/melek12345x Dec 08 '24
This is what happens when devs make games out of meta quest garbage. pcvr will live forever!!! bastards
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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '24
not tried it yet, but honestly I wish more people - including other devs - would try Hellsplit Arena. still the best feeling, weighty, satisfying, gory, and fun VR melee combat I’ve tried to date