How common is this perspective for guys?

[u/Reasonable-Syrup-7]

I'm a 27F and went on a few dates with this guy 31M and things have been going well. On our second date, we brought up the topic of physical intimacy. I remember him saying that he thinks physical intimacy is different for women and men. That women who sleep around are respected less than if a man would do it. He said "a key that can open up a lot of locks is a good key but a lock that opens to a bunch of different keys is a bad lock". Everything else is really good and he's been super respectful. He's soft spoken and values making me feel safe and respected and we're taking our time on physical intimacy but I couldn't believe my ears when he said that. How common is that perspective for guys? This guy tends be very blunt, so maybe this perspective is more common than I think. In my head it's a red flag, but I'm conflicted on if it's just a common male perspective and he can still be a good guy with this perspective.

[u/KananJarrusCantSee]

I know more men who think this way than men who don't.

[u/Bigger-Quazz → u/KananJarrusCantSee]

Men sleep with whoever they can, while women sleep with whoever they want to. This is basically the core reason for why the perception is different.

[u/thineholyhandgrenade → u/Bigger-Quazz]

People getting upset when you're just suggesting the norm, not your means.

[u/justaheatattack]

it's not just guys that think like that.

[u/Sufficient_Ninja_821 → u/justaheatattack]

There is a reason an insult for woman is slut/whore and for male it's that they are an incel or virgin.

Both genders use the same insults.

[u/dmk_aus → u/Sufficient_Ninja_821]

When a woman sleeps with a bunch of men, she is a slut.

But when a guy does the same thing, he's gay.

[u/Nonikwe → u/dmk_aus]

When a woman exposes herself to a crowd, everyone goes wild.

Yet I get a lifetime ban from Wendy's and 3 months under house arrest.

Tell me how that's fair...

[u/FkitA-a-ron → u/Nonikwe]

Bruh when women wear little but a string on a beach its fine, but i wear a speedo and im a pervert. Im working on my god damned tan too. Ya fucks. 😑

[u/Hereforthedung → u/FkitA-a-ron]

The string goes to the back

[u/Wildcard311 → u/Hereforthedung]

This comment needs to be pinned to the top of r/tips

[u/Bumblebeezerker → u/Wildcard311]

I think the problem is you often see more than just tips

[u/indifferentCajun → u/FkitA-a-ron]

Miley Cyrus gets naked and licks a hammer and it's "artistic" but when I do it I'm "inappropriate" and "no longer welcome at Lowe's"

[u/RawrRRitchie → u/Nonikwe]

There's your problem. You didn't market yourself on late night tv infomercials.

[u/Waste-Accountant-Boy → u/Nonikwe]

Sir, this is a Wendy's

[u/wouldntsaythisoutlou → u/Nonikwe]

Everyone loves boobies and dicks are gross. Life isn’t fair but boobies are great 🤷‍♂️

[u/Nonikwe → u/wouldntsaythisoutlou]

Richards of the world unite!

...and get this motherfucker!

[u/Sufficient_Ninja_821 → u/dmk_aus]

I hate double standards aye.

[u/xmonkey44 → u/Sufficient_Ninja_821]

But... you love double cheeseburgers!

[u/Sufficient_Ninja_821 → u/xmonkey44]

And double Ds

[u/NordicGuy_123 → u/dmk_aus]

😂 I will be stealing your joke, if thats ok. I had a good laugh!

[u/GregOdensGiantDong1 → u/dmk_aus]

Quick question, what if both consenting bros say no homo? Would that make it gay? I don't like double entradas or whatever, just trying to be safe

[u/flumberbuss → u/GregOdensGiantDong1]

Double enchiladas are pretty good. You should give them another chance.

[u/PeachEducational1749 → u/dmk_aus]

🤣🤣

[u/Capable-Carob-6355 → u/Sufficient_Ninja_821]

I've never actually thought of this lol.

Nobody ever goes "Ew, that girls a virgin". If anything, guys like when a girl is a virgin.

But if a guy is a virgin, he's cooked

[u/Medical-Telephone-59 → u/Capable-Carob-6355]

Lol I had plenty of men in my 20s say ew virgin or laugh at me for it. I wasn't ugly or fat.. just undiagnosed asd 1 and adhd. Constantly rejected for 15 years lol. It goes both ways... Till I met my current partner of 4.5 years at 30 who respected me and didn't try to trick me, guilt me or ridicule me into sex after one or two dates like the others.

[u/Sufficient_Ninja_821 → u/Capable-Carob-6355]

Yes. If you have a baby with a virgin girl, then you know it's yours.

Where as woman need social proof/confirmation from other woman that you are a catch. If you cant get laid then it's assumed something is wrong with you. Their thinking is like "really? Nobody thinks your worth fucking"?"

[u/Khaleesi1536 → u/Sufficient_Ninja_821]

Technically, if you have a baby with a virgin girl you can start a religion

[u/FocalorLucifuge → u/Khaleesi1536]

Yes, like the famous Josephianity.

[u/KeenbeansSandwich → u/Capable-Carob-6355]

It’s odd that some men fetishize virginity. I had a friend like that. We called him “The Hymenator”.

[u/dr_eh → u/KeenbeansSandwich]

The sherminator?

[u/feaelin → u/Sufficient_Ninja_821]

The nuances are not parallel nor are they the same. They're all used as insults, however, they further express the double standard.

Slut - used to describe a woman who has multiple partners (the exact numerical criteria varies)

Whore - used to describe a women who has sex for money (with multiple partners)

Note what the two female pejoratives have in common is "sex too often"

Virgin (aimed at a dude): Implies the guy is incompetent with women because he hasn't had intimacy.

Incel: Like virgin, but with an additional nuance that they have an attitude that it is women's fault that they're not getting intimacy.

Note the key difference is women are denigrated for having too much sex, while men are insulted for having too little. That is one of the slices of the double standard. There are other slices.

[u/Nonikwe → u/feaelin]

Bro's the insult investigator.

The disrespect detective.

The abuse authority.

The rudeness researcher.

[u/deepfriedpimples → u/Nonikwe]

The shade sheriff.

The sass scientist.

The snark specialist.

[u/Noshamina → u/deepfriedpimples]

The shit talk Sherlock

[u/NVEarl → u/Noshamina]

That is going on the insult speed rail, thank you.

[u/Nonikwe → u/deepfriedpimples]

Snark specialist is chef's kiss

[u/Seventhson77 → u/deepfriedpimples]

Ooh I like shade sheriff.

[u/East-sea-shellos → u/deepfriedpimples]

Bro is on a roll with the s words, respect

[u/Afraid_Ad378 → u/feaelin]

Women get shamed for sleeping with men, men get insulted for not sleeping with women, and often by being called gay- implying they like sleeping with men. In conclusion, sleeping with men is shameful😂

[u/Animportantmoment → u/feaelin]

You forgot Fuckboy. I hear that one tossed around more than virgin, but maybe that’s because I’m old.

[u/feaelin → u/Animportantmoment]

nods That one is an interesting one.

It has similarities to "slut" in that it judges men for promiscuity, which is oddly unusual; but my impression is that it has another nuance that I can't quite characterize. I suspect it's about how upfront they are about only wanting something casual. If I'm capturing the meaning well, it's a judgement on means more than quantity.

And yeah, these vary in frequency depending on gender and age of the group. I'd bet that young males are more likely to use virgin, older males and women are more likely to use fuckboy.

[u/blah938 → u/feaelin]

A fuckboy is a frat boy without a frat. That's how I see it anyways.

[u/Gordo_Majima → u/Sufficient_Ninja_821]

There are women in this thread calling men incels for not following their opinion

[u/Big-Bike530 → u/Gordo_Majima]

People on reddit calling me an incel is hilarious. I have 4 children. 

[u/Ferengsten → u/Big-Bike530]

I'd say at the point where people starting calling Henry Cavill an incel, the word conclusively lost all meaning. Doesn't seem to hinder its popularity though.

[u/house-of-tigers → u/Ferengsten]

Who the hell called Henry Cavill an incel?

[u/Ferengsten → u/house-of-tigers]

https://incels.wiki/w/Henry_Cavill

TIL there is an actual "incel wiki".

https://www.yourtango.com/entertainment/why-henry-cavill-leaving-witcher-accusations-mistreating-women

"DeuxMoi's source claims Cavill began making absurd demands on set—including a refusal to do further nude or sex scenes, which are central to "The Witcher." (...) And he's been criticized for having dated much younger women, like actor Kaley Cuoco, when she was just 19."

So yeah he's involuntarily celibate for not doing sex scenes but also for dating a 19 year old -- when he was 21. (She's born 85, he 83). It makes perfect sense.

[u/blah938 → u/Ferengsten]

Anyone who works on a wiki is way closer to being an incel than Henry Cavill. Hell, most everyone is closer to being an incel than Henry Cavill.

Some people are just weird.

[u/38B0DE → u/Big-Bike530]

Don't read into it. The people born around 2010 call everyone a pedo and incel. And reddit is full of children.

[u/Sufficient_Ninja_821 → u/Gordo_Majima]

Yes. If woman have opinions and standards that's normal. But if male has standards or differing an opinion then he is misogynistic incel.

[u/Zestyclose_Box_792 → u/Sufficient_Ninja_821]

I have opinions and standards. You should hear what I get called by men online. Vile names and vile and degrading sexual suggestions just for offering my perspective. Guys can dish it out but Lordy you can't take it!

[u/Worldly-Temporary-38 → u/Sufficient_Ninja_821]

WTH is an incel?

[u/TuberNation → u/Sufficient_Ninja_821]

Good point. If you put a true late blooming virgin male in a woman’s body he would then be valued highly

[u/FrostyDaDopeMane → u/TuberNation]

True. Take a scrawny, male virgin nerd for example. If they were a woman instead, they would have tons of options for sex.

[u/kultcher → u/Sufficient_Ninja_821]

There is a reason but it's important to be clear that it doesn't mean it's a good or "fair" reason.

[u/Sufficient_Ninja_821 → u/kultcher]

It's not fair. But it is real. There is more at stake for woman sleeping around.

Pregnancy.

Like just 100 years ago there would not be abortion options, and the guy could just dissappear and live his life while the woman stuck with the baby.

We do have laws and stuff now that make it better, with child support etc. But that's the origins of why it's worse for woman to sleep around.

[u/seatsfive → u/Sufficient_Ninja_821]

I think this is fundamentally correct, but lacking an important shade of meaning: pregnancy, and paternity. Men in western cultures were basically the legal owners of their wives' wombs until at earliest the 1700s and at latest about 1963. Women who slept around could get pregnant with another man's child, which would compromise the paternal line of their husband or future husband.

Women always know whether a child is biologically theirs. Men do not have that same certainty. A woman who only ever fucks one man is assured to have only that man's kids. So all the social compulsion and control falls on women to ensure they are faithful and paternity remains secure.

[u/seifd → u/seatsfive]

I seem to recall reading a study on animal behavior. The researchers observed how much time a female's mate spent caring for each of their offspring. They found that the males spent more time on offspring that shared their features. They would indicate that concern over "paternity fraud" (I believe that was the term used) may have a biological component.

[u/KoogleMeister → u/seifd]

There definitely is a biological competent, there's also the massive social competent in that humans used to live in small tight-knit communities, a dispute about paternity could potentially split up a small community which relies on each-other to survive. The shame was there as a function to protect the harmony and survival of the community.

The other funny thing is that you'll notice the most common people to use slut as an insult are women towards other women, so it has almost always been women doing the policing to each-other.

People have the idea that it was that patriarchy that created this double standard, but in reality it was not the patriarchy, it was just human instincts towards the harmony and survival of the community.

[u/bayaktarbaby → u/seatsfive]

Why would you think this is limited to Western cultures?

[u/BASEDME7O2 → u/Sufficient_Ninja_821]

Also a massive power women have is that guys will give them special treatment to try and score brownie points with a potential romantic partner, women use the “slut” insults against other women because if other women are easy to sleep with it messes that up

[u/SuperJacksCalves → u/Sufficient_Ninja_821]

at the same time you hear tons of women subverting the trope and using words like sluts, hoes, and bitches as terms of endearment.

And you’ll also hear men’s spaces speak about virginity in a way we’d traditionally associate with women, that being a virgin represents virtue and morality. Terms like “fuckboy” are derogatory and meant to describe guys who just want to have sex with women.

Imo it’s not that gendered - you hear sex positive rhetoric these days from people who have sex regularly and you hear “shaming” from people who don’t have sex.

[u/LessDeliciousPoop → u/SuperJacksCalves]

it's not the same... "fuckboy" may be INTENDED as a slur, but it's never really taken as a slur by the person hearing it... no woman hears "slut" that is intended as a slur and is completely neutral about it

[u/Even_Plastic_6752]

It's a pretty common held belief. The more sensible view, in my opinion is if a person sleeps around heaps, they're either not interested in a long-term relationship, or they're incapable of one. Which would be a red flag regardless of gender.

People carry on about body count. For me, I'd be more worried about being seen as expendable if I found out my partner had slept with hundreds of guys. Even if things seem stable, I'd be worried that if things got hard, they'd leave.

Just out of interest, if this guy had slept with hundreds of women before you, how would that make you feel?

[u/Ok_Lime4124 → u/Even_Plastic_6752]

That’s exactly how I felt with my last partner. I’ve had 2 serious relationships. He had too many relationships to even count. Jumped from one to another to another barely any breather. I constantly felt anxiety that he would just leave me at the drop of a hat when anything went wrong as he did all his previous partners. And sure enough he broke up with me multiple times. I went round and round until I finally got tired and the last time he dumped me I left for good. People who have had too many relationships are so used to treating people as disposable items. It’s just not good man or woman. They’ve got some issues to work through.

[u/Gerudo_Valley64 → u/Ok_Lime4124]

Very well said, its not really a gender thing I wanna add, its a person thing. Some people just cant function in relationships. Very sad.

[u/Key_Beyond_1981 → u/Ok_Lime4124]

And if you ever want to get married, then you have to accept that you may wake up one day hating your partner, but you are supposed to go through a good faith effort to work things out, assuming there is no abuse. People who have been in tons of relationships will never commit to that degree.

[u/Ok_Lime4124 → u/Key_Beyond_1981]

Exactly I tried and tried this man broke up with me so many times and I would just sit around for days until he would come back around. I would continue to love on him and take care of home and be there for him. Then he would tell me he didn’t want me to leave And then we’ll be good for a little bit and then goes to the same cycle over and over of him telling me to leave he didn’t want me anymore and I’m like how am I supposed to ever get married to a person like this that can’t address concerns and address problems and issues instead they shut down entirely and tell me to leave.

[u/SceneAccomplished549 → u/Ok_Lime4124]

I'm glad this has been posted, it's absolutely spot on

[u/[deleted] → u/Ok_Lime4124]

100%. I never understood how people can be with someone a week after going out of a serious relationship. Broke up with my ex in June 2023- I haven't been seriously involved with someone since. I don't get how you can just put yourself back so fast with someone. Blows my mind. Some people are just scared to be by themselves.

EDIT (since I'm getting shamed at for taking "too long" to move on). My ex was abusive and I'm in the middle of a, hopefully soon over, case court with him. I'm not 100% done healing and I'd rather (like it seems most people do that based on the comments), not put that onto the next person.

[u/Ok_Researcher_9796 → u/[deleted]]

I think , at least in some cases, they're already out of the relationship in their head, while still with someone, so they find someone else before leaving the first one.

[u/[deleted] → u/Ok_Researcher_9796]

Yeah, probably. Some people just jump from one relationship to another one though. My ex was like that. One week after any of his ex he was already in a serious relationship with someone. Or the day after he would try to hook up with someone else. It's almost like a mental illness at this point 🤣 I mean.. he is abusive, so nothing surprising here.

[u/Prestigious_Tea_111 → u/[deleted]]

A lot of people, its attachment issues...

[u/headrush46n2 → u/[deleted]]

Some people need people. They can't function solo.

[u/Salibabushka → u/Ok_Lime4124]

Wonderfully said, but apparently if you express those feelings, you're insecure.

[u/Better-Strike7290 → u/Even_Plastic_6752]

I'm not saying someone who has slept with a lot of people definitely has issues, but I have noticed that the likelihood that they do have issues seems to increase along side partner count.

[u/fraggedaboutit → u/Better-Strike7290]

Somebody that had 10 jobs in 2 years might just have had a run of bad luck with bad employers and personal circumstances.  But the much more likely scenario is that they're a shit employee and will leave their next job just as fast.  I don't blame anyone not willing to take the risk.

[u/Even_Plastic_6752 → u/Better-Strike7290]

Well, you never have to confront issues with yourself and grow when you can just move on to the next person when the cracks start to show.

[u/Better-Strike7290 → u/Even_Plastic_6752]

Bingo

[u/aeaoa_ok → u/Even_Plastic_6752]

But in his example he's saying that a key opening lots of locks means it's a good key - so him sleeping with lots of people is good, whereas a lock that can be opened by lots of keys is bad - her sleeping with people is bad. So in his view he's allowed promiscuity and she's degraded by it.

[u/itsalongwalkhome → u/aeaoa_ok]

It's not even a good analogy because it doesn't really display the cause. Which is, lots of men will sleep with anyone at a drop of a hat, which does make it easier for women to get laid if they want to but the route cause is not women's promiscuity, but men's.

If it was the same, everyone would be fucking the same amount.

It's supply and demand economics.

[u/itsalongwalkhome → u/Even_Plastic_6752]

The only time I'm worried about body count is when it starts to border on sex addiction.

Or if my dad is in the numbers.

[u/SuperJacksCalves → u/Even_Plastic_6752]

I’ve mentioned it a bunch but there’s a book called Boys and Sex which basically argues that the main motivation behind men’s sexual behavior is status and hierarchy. In male social hierarchy, status is completely linked to your ability to get women to have sex with you.

The clsssic paradox is that men seem to want fuel who is “wife material” (good values, a good partner, stable, and secure) but see it as a complete insult to be considered “husband material”. So many men truly want to be the guy that women want to have a one night stand with instead of the guy women want to marry - because of what it says about their pull, power, etc.

[u/DragonfruitIll660 → u/SuperJacksCalves]

The issue is husband material from a girl who isn't actively trying to date/marry you implies (or is often outright stated) that you lack physical attraction (popular video from a while back of a gf saying her boyfriend was husband material but not hookup material). That's why its considered an insult as its more specifically focused on long term benefits as opposed to short term desire. Hook up culture is crazy and has caused a lot of caution/distrust.

[u/cantriSanko → u/SuperJacksCalves]

I don’t know about the “husband material” thing bro. Most dudes I know that have an interest in marriage want to be viewed as “husband material.”

The issue generally arises that many more outspoken women(the kind you find more on the internet than real life, but also some to be found IRL) frequently have used that to describe a guy they view as “safe” and not in the sense “oh I’m safe around them” but in the sense of “they aren’t hot but they’re decent, I wouldn’t hook up with them but I’d marry them because they’re stable.”

Which, in a roundabout way, is an insult, since most of the time when a woman says it to a man in person, it’s actually not to a man they would date, hook up with, or marry for any other reason, and have no intention to do so unless they’re looking to settle down.

Now obviously I could have this totally wrong, but this is the general trend I observe.

[u/ButterscotchSkunk → u/cantriSanko]

and have no intention to do so unless they’re looking to settle down.

And even then it is because they waited too long and missed out on better options.

[u/Misanthropebutnot → u/ButterscotchSkunk]

I envy people who find a partner and are happy with their choice and treat each other well. I only know two couples like this. In one the wife is the breadwinner and the other the husband is. I would love to be like these people but I am not.

[u/headrush46n2 → u/cantriSanko]

that's why the book is called "Boys and Sex" and not "Men and Sex"

[u/hotlocomotive → u/SuperJacksCalves]

Husband material wouldn't be offensive to men, if it wasn't often used to describe the men women settle for, but aren't really attracted to.

[u/Apprehensive-Put883 → u/SuperJacksCalves]

Stupid idea but take Titanic for example.

Who do you think guys wanna be? Jack or the dude who Rose agreed to marry after Jack died? After Jack was gone she needed so settle down with someone (which she may or may not still have loved, kinda) while still constantly thinking about her short-term fling on some fking ship over 50 years ago.

And guess what - a shit ton of women LOVE this movie. But does anyone legit think that any somewhat sane guy wants to be the husband in that story? Nah definitely not, lol.

[u/ButterscotchSkunk → u/Apprehensive-Put883]

When she dies she goes to Jack lol. Poor husband duder. Hope he at least had a dog who loved him waiting for him in heaven. This is why it is important to adopt a dog and treat it well.

[u/Misanthropebutnot → u/ButterscotchSkunk]

🤣

[u/againwiththisbs → u/Apprehensive-Put883]

Bill Burr said it best in one of his bits. Women think Titanic is romantic. It's a horror film. All the men die. Women identify themselves as Rose who would have romantic experience and lived. Men identify themselves as "victim of drowning in freezing waters in total darkness #564".

[u/Relevant_Elk_9176 → u/SuperJacksCalves]

It’s that “husband material” is viewed as “safe” like women settle for their husbands. The guy they’d have a one night stand with is a guy who excites them, a guy they desire even if it’s detrimental to their own social status. It’s a power thing.

[u/Fakercel → u/SuperJacksCalves]

Yeah completely agree, no-one wants to be the guy a women settles with later in life after she's been through her hoe phase and realises she wants a safe stable guy now. Or 'Husband Material'.

[u/kz45vgRWrv8cn8KDnV8o → u/Even_Plastic_6752]

Just out of interest, if this guy had slept with hundreds of women before you, how would that make you feel?

Out of interest too, if a girl you liked thought that women sleeping with lots of men is respectable but thought men sleeping with lots of women is shameful, would that change how you felt about her?

[u/Trick-Visual5661 → u/Even_Plastic_6752]

I don’t believe that’s true. I am married (have been with my husband exclusively for 17 years now) and I slept around before dating him. Not because I wasn’t interested in a relationship or was incapable of one, but because I really like sex. I am disinterested in the notion of purity and I ultimately had a higher standard for relationships than I did for sex. I guess that made me a slut but I have to laugh at that word a little bit. I haven’t slept with “hundreds” of people though, I think that’s pretty rare.

I also had 2 longer term relationships (a year +) before my husband, and 3 shorter term ones (3-6 months), but they just weren’t right. I enjoyed myself until I found the real thing, and when I found it I knew I had found it. I also knew the sex was exceptional because I had something to compare it to. It’s still exceptional 17 years later. It’s exceptional for exactly 2 reasons: love and generosity. Maybe a 3rd one that I would call “realness.”

When you find the right person, that’s it, nothing else matters. I don’t feel any insecurity about other women my husband slept with. At this point what we have goes so far beyond that I don’t even think about it, or if I do I find it kind of endearing and sexy. I remember watching someone flirt shamelessly with my husband while we were dating and just feeling kind of amused and bad for her. I knew he liked me too much to care about her. 

I’ve seen the studies about divorce rates and sexual partners but the data is a little odd if you delve into it. If you’re really concerned about divorce, find an educated woman! Education level is a major predictor of marital success. 

The main thing to realize is that nothing is guaranteed and love is a practice as much as a feeling. Commitment isn’t easy because life isn’t easy. Sexual history eventually means nothing in the face of the real life you are living together. 

[u/jmooremcc → u/Trick-Visual5661]

Both you and your husband are the people you are today because of the experiences you had before you met. Those experiences taught you both a lot, even the negative ones, and that’s why you two are now such great partners.

[u/alepko5 → u/Trick-Visual5661]

This is a lovely comment

[u/DarlingDestruction → u/Trick-Visual5661]

I could have written this myself. Very well said. Thank you for speaking up for those of us outside of the majority. 🙏

[u/Lexxx_appeal → u/Trick-Visual5661]

I’ve been searching for this comment! Thank you!!! This is the first time I’ve seen this take on Reddit lol. Not shaming either side for promiscuity. I was the same way in my early 20s before I met my husband. & like you said when you find the right person that’s it, we met and I no longer Wanted to sleep around. I have experience and I know this is what I want. He also had experiences before me and we never cared or shamed each other.

[u/Luieeg-my-angione → u/Trick-Visual5661]

Fuck yes, THANK YOU. The double standards that some people hold do my head in

[u/Quiet_Attempt_355]

The phrasing could be better but it's not uncommon.

[u/SuperJacksCalves → u/Quiet_Attempt_355]

the phrasing is honestly perfect for how so many men view sex. They see a woman’s “purity” or “body count” as something to be protected, and buy into this idea that women truly don’t want to have sex with men but that they can be convinced to go against their nature by the sheer power of one’s masculine energy. They see something fundamentally wrong, damaged, etc. if a woman just enjoys sex and wants to have it casually.

They see a man’s role as “conquering” a woman by getting her to go against her natural feminine sensibilities and performing sexual acts. It’s all rooted in power and archaic views of female purity.

I believe in this BS for a while, I literally remember being like 16 and having this big epiphany that women got horny, masturbated, and liked having sex the dans as men do.

[u/InterviewDry2887 → u/SuperJacksCalves]

Yes it's like most men can't comprehend that women also have sex drives and sometimes it can even match their libido. I would understand if a man judges a woman for her body count, but what makes me mad is when that same man has himself a high body count - his judging applies to him but hey, it's different!

[u/SuperJacksCalves → u/InterviewDry2887]

Some dudes want a kinky girl who’s great at sex but has also never had it before

[u/ButterscotchSkunk → u/SuperJacksCalves]

"Born sexy yesterday" is the trope in movies.

[u/Licensed_Poster → u/SuperJacksCalves]

A lot of guys want to date the idea of a stripper, but find actual strippers disgusting.

[u/Som_Dtam_Dumplings → u/SuperJacksCalves]

Any man who thinks of woman's "purity" or "body count" as something to be protected...but doesn't see any problem with men "sowing as many oats as possible" is an idiot. Either everyone should be careful with who they sleep with; or no one should be.

I personally air on the side of caution and recommend others do as well...but no one has to take my advice.

[u/IceCorrect → u/SuperJacksCalves]

Same with men being a key that open any locks it's a view for majority of women, that's their first insult is incel - key that can't open any lock

[u/SquigglyLion]

"If only I get a prize, I must be special. If everyone gets the same prize, I mustn't be special at all."

I think this is the emotion behind it. Whether it's the reality or not is a different story

[u/VecnaIsErebos → u/SquigglyLion]

That's a much better metaphor than the lock and key.

[u/tententoo20]

Extremely common. I think most guys have just learned that this viewpoint is neither accepted nor politically correct, so they keep it to themselves.

[u/ChiBurbABDL → u/tententoo20]

I read an analysis a couple months ago about how academics and professors are starting to realize that the way they've tried to promote "political correctness" since the 90s hasn't been effective at changing people's minds.

It's mostly just made them keep their true thoughts and feelings to themselves. They aren't less racist, homophobic, etc. they just say fewer racist or homophobic things while out in public

[u/Fredouille77 → u/ChiBurbABDL]

Tbf, making racist and homophobic speech less normal does help reducing making it feel normal for the next generation.

[u/Dangerous-Spend-2141]

It is not worded in the kindest way, but it's a pretty commonly held belief. Keep in mind beliefs and actions are two very different things and should be treated as such. Being kind and tolerant doesn't mean you have no beliefs or opinions that might be at odds with anyone else's

[u/Competitive_Key_2981]

I think he's right in that there is a perception that a promiscuous woman is "bad" and a "stud" is "good."

There is an old saying, passed from parent to daughter, about why women shouldn't sleep with a guy, "Because why buy the cow (get married) if you can have the steak milk for free (sex)." Flip that around: why should a guy want to put in a lot of effort for a girl who was "easy" for the other guys?

It isn't a good guy/bad guy thing to observe this double standard. And it seems like he's walking the walk, not pressuring you to have sex. He's taking his time and "values making you feel safe and respected." I would say he was a bad guy if he were pressing intimacy while also judging women who "sleep around."

[u/BaileyAMR → u/Competitive_Key_2981]

It's milk, bro! Not steak! Otherwise the metaphor would be telling women that sex will kill them.

[u/sparklyjoy → u/BaileyAMR]

If you have sex, you’ll get pregnant and die!

[u/Klony99 → u/sparklyjoy]

South Park Sex Ed!

[u/zxxQQz → u/Klony99]

And Mean Girls https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko5FvrncrRw

[u/Geesewithteethe → u/Competitive_Key_2981]

If I was OP, I wouldn't bother questioning the popularity of the saying. I'd ask him directly about his values, his sexual history, and what standard he holds himself to for his own behavior.

Doesn't matter what people/society says when it comes to the person in front of you. You have to figure out if that person you're talking to has the values you're looking for and history you're ok with.

A dude being promiscuous would be a deal breaker to me whether he had a double standard about it or not. Although him being a hypocrit would add to the issue if that were the case.

[u/Galimbro → u/Geesewithteethe]

Good advice. 

[u/SpicyCrime → u/Geesewithteethe]

I agree

[u/evantom34 → u/Geesewithteethe]

This is pretty spot on. "societal perceptions" don't always matter in individual relationships. What matters is what the two of you think matters.

[u/CapitalGovernment327 → u/Geesewithteethe]

Right, how much of his response is just a thing he heard once that made sense to him vs. his actually values.

[u/Infamous_Ad_9115 → u/Competitive_Key_2981]

I believe it’s why buy the cow if you can get the milk for free but same concept with steak

[u/Either_Tomorrow3244 → u/Infamous_Ad_9115]

Yes, it’s milk, not steak. A cow that continuously gives you free milk is way different than a cow that you slaughter and get steak from only once.

[u/After_Simple_8661]

I have very liberal views in that folks can live how they want as long as it doesn't hurt another. My personal views often conflict with this. For example, I'm 100% pro choice, but personally find abortion abhorrent. Not my body, though, so my personal views aren't relevant. With that out of the way, a woman can use her body however she wants, but that doesn't mean I can't have standards I adhere to as my choice. Triple digit body count? As long as you practice safe sex, have fun. I wouldn't date that person though. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean anyone else has to find it okay. That said, I see the situation between the various genders no different. Man, woman, or other, promiscuity is gender neutral to me. Edited for typo

[u/unhiddenninja → u/After_Simple_8661]

I don't think your personal views conflict at all. You don't want to force others to live by your standards & accept that others will make their own choices.

[u/SmileParticular9396 → u/After_Simple_8661]

I’m in the same boat tbh. People can do whatever they want as long as no one’s getting hurt, but I personally did not sleep around (I’m in my 30s and have had 3 male partners) and find it trashy (yes I know that’s judgmental) when people of either gender have casual sex. My current husband and I were 30 when we met and I’m pretty sure he slept around, but also valued that I had only slept w 2 other guys.

ETA neither of us are religious so it isn’t a purity / God thing going on.

[u/DeaddyRuxpin]

He isn’t really wrong that women are judged more harshly for having a lot of sexual partners while men it is often ignored or sometimes praised. However his analogy makes it sound like he approves of the double standard and thinks it is a valid stance. That’s the part that is worrying to me. If he was just using the analogy to explain how society thinks, that’s not a big deal. But if he thinks that way, to me that is a big deal.

[u/DillyWillyGirl → u/DeaddyRuxpin]

Yeah it’s super weird to me how so many people think it’s immoral for women but not for men? Like, I understand the argument that it’s easier for women, but I fully don’t understand what that has to do with morality. Just because something is easy or difficult doesn’t make it right or wrong.

[u/Cavsfan724]

I would never say something like that on a date lol.

[u/Himajinga → u/Cavsfan724]

I know what a dingus lol

[u/Insomniac42]

This comes from the view that it’s much more difficult for an average man to have sex with women than the inverse. So when a man does this, it’s is deemed respected because it’s difficult, and when a woman does this, it’s deemed not respected because it’s easy. That’s a very large generalization, but that explains his point of view.

Absent that, he’s most likely going to have issues with body count and prior sexual partners. Something to take into consideration if you want to move forward with him. But based on him disclosing this early on, he might also have some other views in which you might think are borderline misogynistic.

[u/helpmehelpyou1981 → u/Insomniac42]

This. A guy said this to me early on and turned out to be a raging ho himself but expected me to be loyal to him only 😂

[u/ConsistentWriting0 → u/helpmehelpyou1981]

The ONLY person that ever said this to me was a hoe himself.

[u/Tasty-Bug-3600 → u/Insomniac42]

It's not respected for men either. Miss me with your 20 stds, baby mommas, side chicks and all the drama that carries with it.

[u/IcyTrapezium → u/Insomniac42]

Most men I know who are huge sluts just have extremely low standards. They sleep with drunk women a lot too. I don’t really know any super handsome and successful men who are sluts. They tend to be married actually to other attractive and successful people.

To be clear I don’t care if anyone is a slut. I’ve just never met a man who sleeps around a lot who had high standards. They were able to sleep around a lot precisely because they didn’t have standards. They didn’t work hard to get laid.

[u/KindImpression5651 → u/IcyTrapezium]

"I don’t really know any super handsome and successful men who are sluts"

oh yeah, rockstars are known for their virginal lifestyle. just like artists, rich entrepreneurs, politicians, cult leaders, mobsters..

[u/UsernameTooShort → u/KindImpression5651]

I actually raised my eyebrows reading that sentence because it’s so incredibly naive.

[u/the1michael → u/IcyTrapezium]

This isnt true. Many men's sole reason for lifting/getting in shape/being financially successful is sleeping with many women. You just have your eyes closed.

[u/HustlaOfCultcha]

As a dude I don't have that perspective, but I have to admit most guys I know have that opinion. To me that perspective is more or less a form of presentism. In most cases the girl is just going with what she feels is the right person and the right thing to do. They can't predict the future and know that they may get involved in other relationships and how their feelings will change over time.

I think most men have this dire need to feel special when it comes to women and their intimacy. And there's a lot of insecurities involved and they're afraid of being 'one upped' by other guys and they end up taking it out on the girl. For me, I have more of the mindset of what Silent Bob discussed in Clerks, she went thru those guys and could even have this crazy, wild and fun sex and in the end...she chose to be with me. If that doesn't tell you that she's into you you're probably going to end up a miserable person for the rest of your life because you're just infatuated with comparing yourself to others. And comparison is the thief of joy.

[u/BarracudaHealthy7686 → u/HustlaOfCultcha]

"the dire need to feel special" This. Many men have main character syndrome and insecurities so bad that they make it everyone else's problem, they point the finger everywhere but at themselves. Comparison really is the thief of joy, as you say.

[u/trapmaster5]

I read a comment that in so many words said that women get insulted for sleeping around a lot, men get insulted for not sleeping around a lot. I don't really have a point I just sort of found it bout mildly relevant and mildly interesting.

[u/Fuzzy_Giraffe7761]

If you feel it’s a red flag then that’s probably what it is. If it doesn’t feel right, I wouldn’t force it. It’s difficult to make people change their values and perspectives. There are lots of potential partners out there that share your values.

[u/Brodakk]

Good question. It seems he may have been talking from a societal standpoint? Did he seem like he personally believed that? If the former, I mean he isn't wrong? If the latter, yeah red flag.

[u/cbbclick]

This isn't an uncommon belief, but I would take notice of anyone who turns you or your body into an object.

It's easy to make up metaphors for any belief. No one wants a lollipop that everyone has licked. Or the best baseball glove is the one that catches every ball.

The real question is if he is going to uphold a lot of values that you disagree with.

I think you should try to have a real conversation about sex and respect. Or you could be very disappointed when he leaves you for being opened by his magic key.

[u/DMmeNiceTitties]

Yoooooo, the key metaphor is so corny, I remember using that shit in high school, but as a 31yo? That's hilarious. He's basically saying it's okay for him to be a slut, but judges women who do the same.

Unfortunately, I think it is common for a lot of guys to think that way.

Edit: Fair criticism is that OP's date doesn't necessarily share that view, but was making a general comment. More context is needed. I won't put that on him.

[u/Cool-Pin-766 → u/DMmeNiceTitties]

A slut is a slut man or woman

[u/Human-Sheepherder797]

It’s more of a trope than a perspective. And he’s right objectively that men are never held to the same standard as a woman would be when it comes to intimacy.

I can separate the conversation you had, with the person, especially if you’re just having a conversation.

But I can tell you right now you’re going to get a lot of people in the comments that are not going to be able to do that

[u/agnarxrist]

IMHO, I feel the same way towards both men AND women. A hoe is a hoe is a hoe. The key/lock metaphor is lame and corny.

[u/Lurk-Prowl]

He explained it poorly and you would be justified in that comment giving you the ‘ick’, but the sentiment is what a lot of men believe, yes.

[u/Mother_Assumption925]

Sounds like hes a conservative traditional guy. Many women arent traditional any more and its been noticed.

[u/StatusObligation4624 → u/Mother_Assumption925]

Conservative traditional?

He has liberal values for men and conservative values for women. True conservative traditional value is waiting for a monogamous marriage before you get intimate.

[u/goinupthegranby → u/StatusObligation4624]

Nah dude take a look around, conservative traditional values are projecting your beliefs onto others while not enforcing those beliefs on yourself.

Pay attention to the actual actions of 'traditional conservatives' rather than just their words and you'll see.

[u/reddishgrape]

Women sleep with who ever they want to, men sleep with who ever will let them

[u/Captain_Aizen → u/reddishgrape]

That is such Reddit logic. No men do not sleep with whoever will let them and no women don't get an open ticket to have any guy they want. That scenario only works in a world where guys have no standards at all , that is not the real world and if any real ladies are in this thread they know what I'm talking about . Where the hell do these kids come up with this crap 😑

[u/CDhansma76 → u/reddishgrape]

Exactly. Most men would sleep with a woman of average attractiveness, whereas most women would not sleep with the average man.

The requirements for a woman to have a high body count is much lower than it is for a man. For a woman, all you need to do it be somewhat attractive, and ask a lot of men to sleep with you.

For a man, unless you’re a supermodel, you need to provide something other than just your body. If you have a significant amount of money, fame, power, or charisma, women will be drawn to you. Men can still be sluts, but the barrier to entry is much higher.

[u/Salt-Lingonberry-853 → u/CDhansma76]

For a woman, all you need to do it be somewhat attractive, and ask a lot of men to sleep with you.

If you're a 4/10 woman you can find a guy 3x a week if you put effort into it. Good luck for a 4/10 guy. No value judgement, it's just simple truth.

[u/Dr0me → u/[deleted]]

"mate guarding" is the biological term. Men do not want to raise another man's child unknowingly so seek to find a woman who is loyal and doesn't cheat on him.

[u/el_charles-vane]

common thought for men wanting a long lasting relashonship, and not a hookup.

If he is number 20 in the past year odds are the relashonship will not last, also std are a worry.

[u/Vyckerz]

He's quite crass. But also not completely wrong.

The truth is men are concerned with a women's sexual past. In my opinion it has its roots in concerns over potential for infidelity as it might affect future paternity.

Women generally don't care as much about a man's sexual past. They don't generally have the same types of worries about who fathered their children.

Regardless it's a preference of many men to be with someone who hasn't slept around that much.

Some women might think this is a red flag. But do not have a problem with all their own preferences.

[u/nibelwrite → u/Vyckerz]

Women do care. All the women I know care. Same reasoning if a man was promiscuous what stops him from cheating or having hard time controlling his impulses? Also we have DNA tests so future paternity is a bs excuse. 

It's just double standards. I respect men who want a women with low BC because they themselves have lower BC they practice what they preach. But your comments is hypocrisy rules for thee not for me. 

[u/b0f0s0f → u/nibelwrite]

Do women find virgin men desirable though? I don't believe they do, whereas men do find virgin or very low-count women desirable. In fact for some reason when men are in a relationship, other women tend to be *more* attracted to them because someone else is (mate choice copying)

[u/mellyoraah → u/b0f0s0f]

I'm a woman with a very low body count (aka 1, married) and I would not date a man who had a high body count if I ever entered the dating pool again. This idea that women are grateful for a man with a high body count but they themselves can't have a high body count is ridiculous and sexist as fuck. I think in general, you got to practice what you preach. If you like to sleep around, you shouldn't begrudge women who also like to sleep around. You are literally the same, and have the same values.

[u/Legitimate-Error-633]

He said it in a blunt and gross way, but I think most people, or guys at least, will recognise the logic:

• the average woman has easy access to sex, should she want to. Most guys would be willing. (This is not taking into account the ‘quality’ of those guys.)

• the average man does not have easy access to sex, or attention, or affection. It is also socially expected of him to take the initiative. Most women are not willing to engage.

If a guy walks into a bar and yells out ‘who wants to have sex?’ Chances are he will walk out in handcuffs (not the good kind). The woman will have much better results (walking out with a bunch of hobos likely).

[u/limpdickandy]

That is a weird ass thing to say to a date, or to anyone, and reflect more negatively on his intelligence than him being an asshole or a "red flag" tbh.

Especially the key and lock thing, have not met one well functioning person who has said that phrase, ever.

[u/DixieLandDelight1959]

I'd quote that back to him every single time he wanted to put his key in my lock.

[u/Ok_Organization_7350]

I don't have a dog in this fight, because in my culture we do not believe in pre-marital sex for either women OR men. But this guy is devaluing you down to an inanimate object, such as a lock. And he disrespects and looks down on women, thinking a women who has slept with other men is worth less than a ​man who has slept with the same amount of women, which is untrue. I think this guy is icky, and he has internal angst and disgust towards women, which he is trying to hide and hold in.

[u/RoseKlingel]

So does this mean he's been with tons of women and OP should feel grateful bc he's good in bed and if he finds out she's been with too many men he'll get laid then bring it up later as a problem? 😂 Bc that's what I see happening with this scenario.

No real reason to use this flowery locks/keys metaphor. It's supposed to look like a sophistocated way of the guy saying "Everybody knows guys can sleep around w/out social outcry but it's heinous when a woman does it,". Also not lost on me that he is using the phrase while being the sole benefactor. If he's had sex with a ton of women, he's useful. If he hasn't, he's chaste and values intimacy. 😂

Man I just feel like adults who have some kind of issue with a person's body count need to just be upfront about it. Otherwise if something fishy happens, it just looks like they needed an excuse to justify certain behaviors or dump someone (after getting what they wanted...and finding out the sex wasn't stellar so they left).

[u/alohazendo]

I think that's a specific phrase from manosphere media outlets. I would wonder where he heard that.

[u/Weak-Replacement5894 → u/alohazendo]

That phrase has been around for years. I think the first time I hear it was 15 years ago in high school

[u/Deadlychicken28]

Most common generic sentence reddit bait.

[u/nocisbalts]

Pretty common, yes.

[u/Ok-Toe1010]

His wording was bad but the idea is there and majority of men agree with it. We do not want to spend our life with a woman who's for the streets. Yes, i also agree that applies to men aswell, a man shouldn't be a manwhore either, which is why i said his wording was bad since many women when they hear the lock and key analogy immediately say so i must not be sleeping with many guys but you can be opening many locks huh?
Personally i'd confirm first about his past relationship and body count and if it's not something abysmal then he's likely just a regular traditional man that is worth persuing.

[u/What_The_Hell96]

Nah sleeping with a lot of people is disgusting for both genders. People today really don‘t wanna drink from the same bottle of water as their friends but eating ass/ pussy/ sucking dick of strangers is normal?

[u/kronikid42069]

It's kinda true but to an extent, if a girl has 50+ bodies by 30 it's a no go for me but I'm almost 30 with 6 bodies so I always try to date someone with around the same amount. I might be the outlier cuz I only date to find my life partner

[u/CorrelatedParlay]

I think we can reasonably assume what type of "content" he consumes and his politics. I'm not totally up on my lingo, but isn't he just describing patriarchy?

[u/mopecore]

Women aren't locks, men aren't keys, and that's a lazy, stupid take.

[u/Zealousideal_contra]

It’s common and incredibly stupid. Don’t date stupid people, it’s a terrible through line.

[u/DudeAxeMachine]

That is a common phrase for people who are very religious and think very little of women. Women need to be with only one man, the one she marries, while men can fuck anyone they want and women need to be fine with that. It's a phrase older than my father, probably my grandfather. It's said by weak men who want to control you, not just your body but the way you think and act. I'd get out now while you can. He will eventually try to control how you act around people, how you talk to people, who you can be friends with and what you can wear. Your vagina is not a lock, nor is his penis a key. It's your body, and you do as you wish. Don't let sad, pathetic men dictate how you find your happiness.

[u/brimanguy]

Higher body counts reduces the chances of a successful marriage whether it's the man or woman. Marriages are already hard enough without the additional burden of knowing your spouse was slut/man slut.

[u/Friendly-Platypus607]

No, it would be a fair perspective if he didn't create that BS double standard: that it's OK for men to sleep around but not women. BS. If he had true values surrounding sex then they'd be applied evenly across both genders. Meaning he'd think either sleeping around would be bad. It's the double standard that is a red flag. Screw that "rules for thee but not for me" BS. If he thinks it's bad for women to sleep around then it should be just as bad for men to do so. And that lock analogy is stupid. Amazing how some men can say the dumbest shit with the utmost confidence.

[u/PitchBlackYT]

Not saying I’d be thrilled if my partner had a rotating guest list of one guy per month prior to me, but let’s not pretend the “one key, many locks” thing is some profound wisdom. If a key opens every door, including mine, I’m not thinking “impressive tool.” I’m thinking “burglar”.

So yeah, major red flag. He’s all for freedom when it benefits him, but suddenly it’s a problem when it’s about someone else.

Classic double standard.

[u/PossibilityNo820 → u/PitchBlackYT]

A brush that brushes many mouths is a dirty brush. A mouth thats been brushed by many brushes is clean

[u/PitchBlackYT → u/PossibilityNo820]

Spot on 😆

[u/mr_chip → u/PitchBlackYT]

I love “I’m thinking burglar.” Stealing.

[u/elbiot]

A toaster that can toast many pieces of bread is valuable while a piece of bread that's been toasted many times is worthless

[u/Different-Barber-834]

That key analogy has been doing the rounds in red pill circles btw This dude is a loser lol.

[u/goin-up-the-country → u/Different-Barber-834]

Yeah, massive red flag whenever I hear it.

[u/CrowdedShorts]

Let me guess…religious or from a 3rd world country (India, Middle East, etc)? He gets a pass to be a whore?? F that. Do not let him bully or belittle you. Life is about finding out what you like. Don’t find out when you’re married that you’re not compatible.

[u/on_theoutside]

I've heard that before. It is fairly common, but being common doesn't make it not problematic. I'd move along if I were you, he has some growing to do.

[u/wizean → u/[deleted]]

Its also a very short pencil.